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wvParticipantwvParticipantThe Great Snow of 1943
So in the midnight the great snow
Covered over the dark ground;
Feet were hobbled and wheels spun;
The hydrants smothered, sank, drowned.The great snow bandaged the street lights,
And banked the doors of the bright shops
And hid the hot little cars deep,
And mounded over the train tops.Careless and pure, the snow fell.
This was the finish, we all knew.
So man expired in a white dream.
It seemed like a damned good idea, too.Morris Bishop.
wvParticipantFor me it’s all about Carolina/Arizona.
For me its all about shoveling the driveway.
Or…finding the driveway.
w
vwvParticipant“…it’s fair to wonder how difficult it will be for them to add to their staff with Fisher entering the fifth and final year of his contract.”
Gee thats so obvious
but i never thot of it.w
vYeah, but it depends on the contract they offer Shurmur. Or anyone else. Are they guaranteed money? For how long? Is it tied to Fisher’s deal?
Fisher isn’t going anywhere. In fact, I will be surprised if he isn’t extended before the end of the season.
Really? An extension before the end of the season?
I suppose so, but only if he has a winning record
after ten games or so.w
vwvParticipantWell a lot of us cant afford subscriptions
so, it would be nice if people who can access
the articles, would post the article
and not just the Link.w
vwvParticipant“…it’s fair to wonder how difficult it will be for them to add to their staff with Fisher entering the fifth and final year of his contract.”
Gee thats so obvious
but i never thot of it.w
vwvParticipantwvParticipantWeakest group, by far — TE. Truax and Hollohan.
Good players, but…an ALL-Time team? Nah
w
vwvParticipantI havent said this in a long time, but you guys — this small
group of outcasts and science-geeks, and atheist-mystics,
and dog-lovers, is a joy to post with. Yall are so
fucking funny, too.Gentlemen, I am honored, every day to be a part of your world.
I feel the same way. It took a few moves to get here (PD board to the blue board to various versions of the herd to the huddle board to the buzz board and then to the huddle 2 board).
Just a few more moves, and we ought to have this thing perfected.
I hear Nittany snuck a double-secret clause into the board-contract.
If this board doesn’t finish in the lowest tier
it can be moved to
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This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
zn.
January 21, 2016 at 4:11 pm in reply to: Wagoner: Rams want Mark Barron back but where does he fit? #37836wvParticipantI think the Barron deal was one of, if not the best
deals Snisher has ever made.Sign the man.
I really wanna see Barron and Ogletree on the field
at the same time.w
vwvParticipantI’m submitting a FOIA request for the contents of said email to be disclosed.
The board demands transparency.
Sure. Went like this.
===
from: zackneruda@gmail.com
Nittany–I want to start a thread on the huddle about email notifications. You in?
===
from: Nittany
zn–thank gawd this isn’t another one of your endless emails trying to sell me yet another one of your daughter’s woebegotten hand-knit scarves. For that reason alone, yes, I’m in. PS did you know that birds are really dinosaurs?
—————————–
I would gladly pay you Tuesday
for a woebegotten hand-knit scarf.But only if its a throw-back. Blue and White.
I havent said this in a long time, but you guys — this small
group of outcasts and science-geeks, and atheist-mystics,
and dog-lovers, is a joy to post with. Yall are so
fucking funny, too.Gentlemen, I am honored, every day to be a part of your world.
w
v
“Our goal should be to live life in radical amazement. ….get up in the morning and look at the world in a way that takes nothing for granted. Everything is phenomenal; everything is incredible; never treat life casually. To be spiritual is to be amazed.”
— Abraham Joshua Heschel“People of our time are losing the power of celebration. Instead of celebrating we seek to be amused or entertained. Celebration is an active state, an act of expressing reverence or appreciation. To be entertained is a passive state–it is to receive pleasure afforded by an amusing act or a spectacle….
Celebration is a confrontation, giving attention to the transcendent meaning of one’s actions.”
— Abraham Joshua Heschel“Wonder rather than doubt is the root of all knowledge.”
― Abraham Joshua HeschelwvParticipantThere’s an “NFL Campus” at the Kronkatorium.
An nfl campus.
What will they teach there?
w
vwvParticipantSee, what makes it even harder is knowing that walking away from the Rams means walking away from news like this about the Nittany email. Where will I get my information about Nittany’s communications if I don’t stick around here? My bet? I won’t. Unless I find myself working for the NSA. Which is unlikely. Which means that I will probably never know about the email that Nittany gets when I walk away.
I have heard that Snowden has
the contents of the Nittany-email
in his files — but Snowden said the contents
are so shocking, so scandalous, that its better
if the American public remains in the dark.w
vwvParticipantLOL….
thanks guys, I needed some comic relief. Every artice about the move that I read makes me nauseaus. I dreamt about this stuff last night.
I’m truly sorry brother. There is nobody that doesn’t think it sucks big time.
When they left California, I didn’t know if I could watch again. But that September, there they were, the same guys I had been cheering for, in the same uniforms, playing in Green Bay. Isaac Bruce. Chris Miller. The same guys.
In September, you will turn on the tv and see TGII in that same uniform running behind that same line, with Aaron Donald in the middle of the line. Any you will root for them like you always have I predict. But the feeling of loss takes a long time to go away.
Isiah 58
Well its possible that some of the local St.Louis posters
are really just fed up with Zooey, you know.
I mean he’s brought down whole worlds, before.
Whole boards, even.I’m just floating the idea, you understand.
I’m not insisting on it. Just say’in.w
vwvParticipantPlease keep all of us updated on your continuing email interaction.
It’s a slow time of year.
It looks to ‘me’ from what I’ve pieced together,
that zack informed Nittany of an alleged email.
And Nittany claims to have replied.Seems pretty clear that from that
we can deduce that Kronky planned on
moving the team as far back as 1945,
and that Fisher cant draft long-snappers.w
vwvParticipantThey said Roman would be doing an audio spot.
w
vwvParticipantAll true but its even worse. Kroenke’s refusal to work with Clinton torpedoed the Stallions expansion bid. Then Kroenke was allowed to buy in at 40% of the Rams to keep the team in St. Louis. Then Kroenke screws over Khan’s attempt to buy the team only because Kroenke wanted to move it to LA since 2002. He has an iron clad out of his contract and knows he is moving the team based off that alone but needlessly trashes the metro bi-state area to prevent any chance at landing another NFL team.
Still though, all of that is on the Billionaire-weasel-Owner.
Can you separate the anger toward him
from the players and team? The players
had zero to do with any of this. A lot of em
probly didnt even want to go to LA. Their kids
and families were in St Louis.I mean Aaron Donald is a blue-collar
warrior from Pitt. He played his butt
off in St.Louis. Ya know.Horns. Horns iz good, aint they?
w
vwvParticipantBNW, you didn’t upset me. I apologize for not being clear. I just get frustrated when I hear stuff like, for example, Big Pharma is suppressing a cure for profit. If that were the case, then the industry would not have made the strides we have seen with HIV. Now that disease was a cash cow if there ever was one, due to myriad associated diseases it spawns, including various cancers. Cancer is a tough, mean bastard. Just getting new drugs through Phase 1-3 clinical trials can cost a billion and of course may not prove efficacy or have legs to allow a patient to live just a few more months.
The other thing you mentioned, that cancer can go away by itself, untreated. That’s what’s known as spontaneous remission. This lucky group accounts for two percent of patients and doctors\researchers can’t explain it. If I were to get cancer, and most of us will if we live long enough, I wouldn’t leave it untreated. That’s just suicide. I followed two individuals on FB who decided to forgo SBM for quackery and woo. Like diet, Gerson therapy (juicing fruit and vegetable all day combined with coffee enemas) and holistic\naturopathic “medicine.” One died within the time frame for untreated BC, about 18-24 months is the median. The other is about to have a fungulating (sp) tumor burst from her skin. She’s treating it with black salve, which is like acid.
The charlatans I mentioned take advantage of patients like these to make a profit themselves (see Natural News for one) and there’s a special place in hell for those fuckers. As my wife’s caregiver and advocate, I did my D&D and was shocked at what is shilled out there (cannabis oil, essential oils, mistletoe, vitamin c IVs, veganism and laetrile, which has been re-branded as Vitamin B-17. To name just a few) to vulnerable, scared people. SBM cancer treatment -conventional- is not easy to endure. My wife did pretty well in her first go round. But she also thought juicing and a vegan diet would prevent recurrence. She read that somewhere. It didn’t.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. This -is- personal for me. And now, too, for my brother.
Thanks for the kind words, by the way, gentlemen.
I tend to agree on the ‘new-age cures,’ Ozone.
But then I don’t really know much about what the actual
research shows.I read a little book called “snake oil science” a while back
and it helped me understand that a LOT of alternative med-stuff
has never really demonstrated that its better than a placebo.Anyway, I’m glad you are posting here. I wish we could all go
back and have a ‘do-over’ on a lot of that ugliness that
tore the old board apart. Ah well.w
vwvParticipant…’m not at all surprised it fell out the way it did, but it wasn’t a sure thing, so I think Costas overstates all of that. I thought he was good on the inherent nature of violence in football and the way he distinguished it from domestic violence, steroids, corruption of the NCAA and so on.
When I heard, though, that Glenn Frey is dead and realized they were going to talk about that, I ejected, because I always loathed the Eagles.I loathed the Eagles too.
Even with Bradford.w
vwvParticipantYeah. Stan was not interested in St. Louis at all. Plan B may have been London. He wasn’t after a new stadium. He was after Something Bigger.
Yes, something bigger. Money, power, ego, etc, etc.
The Usual.And when Georgia/Shaw took the team away from LA,
it was much the same. Mainly money.What did you think of the Costas audio.
He talks about this stuff.w
vwvParticipantFwiw, looks like the Cincy lawyers didnt know what they were doing either.
From the same field of Schemes blog.
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Bengals’ 16-year-old stadium could end up costing taxpayers around $1 billion
Posted on January 19, 2016 by Neil deMauseHamilton County’s lease deal with the Cincinnati Bengals is bad. Real bad. There’s the requirement that the county pay to add such items as “holographic replay systems” in the event they’re ever invented, for starters — but also plenty of items costing taxpayers plenty of money here in the actual present. How much money, you ask?
Hamilton County taxpayers have spent more than $920 million since 2000 as part of a deal to build and operate Paul Brown Stadium…
By the time 2026 rolls around and the 26-year lease between the team and the county expires, the county will have spent more than $1.1 billion on the deal for the Bengals to play in Cincinnati.
Now, some of that is financing costs — a little over a third of the stadium costs are interest payments, which are really a cost of deciding to push payments out into the future, and so pretty much a wash in present dollars (where “present” is defined as the stadium’s opening in 2000). But much of it is not, including a new requirement that the county start paying about $2.7 million a year in stadium operating costs next year, because expecting a massively profitable pro sports franchise ($55.5m in profits last year alone, according to Forbes) to pay to clean its own bathrooms is just crazy talk. Here’s a handy chart provided by WCPO-TV:
Screen Shot 2016-01-06 at 12.03.29 PM_1452099867537_29456359_ver1.0_640_480Even if you don’t count the interest payments, that’s about $650 million so far, with tens if not hundreds of millions more to come over the next ten years. By which point the Bengals will almost certainly be demanding a new stadium, or at least a new lease with further upgrades to what will then be a 26-year-old venue. You really have to hope that this time county officials will pay attention to the fine print, but probably not.
wvParticipant——————
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2008/05/3359_stl_stadium_chi.html
May 30 2008
This is an archived version of a Field of Schemes article. Comments on this page are closed. To find the current version of the article with updated comments, click here.May 30, 2008
StL stadium chief: Replace dome, or lose Rams
Thirteen years ago, the city of St. Louis lured the then-Los Angeles Rams to their city by building the TWA Dome (now the Edward Jones Dome), entirely with public money. As we wrote at the time in the first edition of Field of Schemes, the total subsidy would end up amounting to $1.07 billion over 30 years:
That amounts to a public cost of $36 million a year, while the Rams’ annual revenues are expected to leap by more than $15 million. And according to the team’s brand-new lease, if the stadium does not remain among the most lavish in football for another ten years, the Rams can then leave town for more lucrative turf – or demand further improvements.
Cut to the front page of today’s St. Louis Post-Dispatch:
If St. Louis intends to meet its lease agreement by providing the Rams with a venue that ranks in the top 25 percent of the NFL by 2015, the city – and the taxpayers – must commit to building a state-of-the-art stadium. One in which the cost could hit 10 figures.
So says Convention and Visitors Commission Chairman Dan Dierdorf publicly, as do several other principals privately.
The NFL stadiums under construction in Indianapolis; Arlington, Texas; and East Rutherford, N.J., are “going to be the cream of the crop, and they’re going to be no more than five or six years old” by 2015, Dierdorf said. “What do you do to a 20-year-old building to make it the equal of a brand-new $1 billion stadium?”
This, in a nutshell, is why so-called “state-of-the-art” clauses in stadium deals are a nightmare for cities, and a boon to team owners. The only thing the people of St. Louis are getting in exchange for their $36 million a year (plus $30 million in renovations currently underway) is the presence of a football team for 30 years – thanks to that well-placed clause, though, they’re now facing another round of stadium blackmail when the paint is barely dry from the first one. (In case anyone failed to get the message, the Post-Dispatch noted that Rams owner Chip Rosenbloom revealed he has been “approached by several people” about selling the team and relocating it elsewhere.) In Cincinnati, the Bengals lease is even more onerous, specifying that the county must install any new technologies in use by 14 other NFL teams, up to and including “holographic replay systems.”
“I don’t think anybody could’ve imagined that the boom in stadium development would’ve happened,” Rams lawyer Bob Wallace told the P-D. Clearly somebody did on the Rams’ side, though, or else they wouldn’t have thought to insert that clause into the lease. The trick now will be for St. Louis to avoid having to be on the hook for yet another stadium before it’s even paid off half the old one.
Posted by Neil deMause
wvParticipantTales of city mismanagement: How the St. Louis Rams won their sweetheart lease
Posted on July 26, 2010 by Neil deMauseTim Sullivan’s column in Saturday’s San Diego Union-Tribune was dedicated to an important but too-often overlooked topic: how city governments really need some professional help in negotiating stadium deals.
Writes Sullivan:
The one voice we most need to hear is dispassionate and discerning, tactical and tough, more measured than “whatever it takes,” less defiant than “over my dead body,” and carefully positioned in nobody’s pocket. Someone able to joust with the National Football League across a quasi-level bargaining table.
At least one stadium expert agrees, telling Sullivan that “I think it’s pretty clear looking back at history that city officials typically get rings run around them by teams,” and adding by way of examples:
“That state-of-the-art clause the Rams have, they were just throwing stuff in there and they were amazed when St. Louis actually went for it. When Washington, D.C., was sitting down with the Major League Baseball Relocation committee, (the city) said they were thinking in terms of two-thirds public, one-third private (funding). (White Sox owner) Jerry Reinsdorf said, ‘We were thinking more three-thirds, no-thirds.’”
Okay, in case you haven’t figured it out yet, that’s me that Sullivan is quoting. But while the three-thirds/no-thirds story has been reported here before, the bit about the Rams’ surprise success at getting lease concessions from St. Louis comes from an interview I recently conducted with Jim Nagourney, a now-retired sports facility manager and consultant who was in the room when it happened.
Nagourney was working as an ad marketer for Anaheim Stadium, he explains, when he was hired away by the Rams as a consultant on their relocation plans. “I went to a meeting in Los Angeles one morning. We had a whiteboard, and we’re putting stuff down [to demand from cities]. And some of the stuff, I said, ‘Guys, some of this is crazy.’ And John Shaw, who was president of the Rams at the time — brilliant, brilliant guy — said, ‘They can always say no, let’s ask for it.’”
The result, he says, was “probably the most scandalous deal in the country,” one that notoriously included a clause requiring the team’s new stadium to remain “state-of-the-art,” or else the team could break its lease and leave. (“That was John,” says Nagourney of the state-of-the-art clause.) “The city was poorly represented — the city is always poorly represented,” says Nagourney. “And John Shaw was a brilliant negotiator. And we put in all of these ridiculous things, and the city didn’t have the sense to say no to any of them.”
The reason this dynamic happens, over and over, is simple, says Nagourney: “A city attorney is not going to know where the money really is. They’re not going to understand advertising, they’re not going to understand concessions — just a whole range of issues that the team officials intimately understand. They know where the dollars are, and the municipal attorneys do not.” On top of that, he says, city officials get “stars in their eyes. It’s their first time dealing with celebrities. They’re just so enamored with the fact that ‘I’m dealing with people who get their name on Page Six.’”
Add in perks like free luxury suites and the promise players showing up at political appearances, says Nagourney, and “they just lose all sense of proportion.”
So, Sullivan is dead right that cities could use negotiating assistance in stadium deals. The problem is that the very reasons why they’re lousy negotiators are the same ones keeping them from seeking help in the first place.
Related Posts:St. Louis unveils plan for Rams to keep up with Joneses
Rams, St. Louis battle over London “home” games
U-T San Diego columnist: I was fired for not being “positive” enough about stadium dealsThis entry was posted in St. Louis Rams by Neil deMause. Bookmark the permalink.
wvParticipantThis topic is unfortunately more personal and immediate with you so I won’t press the issue other than to say my comment was directed towards treatments in some cancers that are now being found to be unnecessary in many cases since the disease is not the straight line progression we have been led to believe. Cancers can become benign and even vanish without treatment, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/health/27canc.html?_r=0
I apologize if my comment upset you.
Well, I think its a pretty complicated subject when you
get to the “politics” of Disease and Western Medicine and Big Pharma
and that cluster of subjects. There are a lot of questions and issues
surrounding disease treatment in America.But then like you noted there is also the tragic
human, personal threads. A separate thing, indeed.w
vwvParticipantI heard from a local media person on a radio show that Shaw added the “top tier” clause as almost a last-second addendum and pretty much expected it to be rejected, and he was surprised when it was accepted.
Well if thats true..just…Wow.
Someone should write a book about
the clause. Or ‘Claws”Other than the “Tackle” I’d say
the “Clause” was the biggest
event in St.Louis Rams history.w
vwvParticipantI agree with every single word Bob Costas says here.
Man.
He hits it…out…of…the…park.
wvParticipantHappy Birth Day, RM
w
vwvParticipantJust as I said going back many years. Knowing of the top tier clause almost from its inception I knew in my heart it was in John Shaw’s mind that the Rams were eventually moving back to LA.
I have read this opinion voiced by other posters, too.
It is nonsense. Sure Shaw got St. Louis to put a clause in the lease that was likely to give the Rams an escape, but if Shaw’s plan was for the Rams to return to LA, he’s an idiot. They left LA for TWENTY YEARS! That’s plenty of time for some other team to move to LA, or for the NFL to put an expansion team there. In fact, I would say that nobody would have bet money that LA would still have no team in 2015.
That little ‘clause’ has certainly
made a difference in NFL history.A long time ago, there was an audio posted
and someone on the audio knew a lot about that clause.
I think they said it was put in ‘reluctantly’ or somethin.
I wish someone still had that audio link.I am surprised St.Louis allowed that to be part of the contract.
Surely, they didn’t have to accept that. Georgia would
have come without it, i would think.
w
vwvParticipantI thot Boras was going to be OC and they
were just looking for a “passing co-ordinater”w
vwvParticipantMerlin, Deacon, Rosey, Lamar –Quickest off the ball?
“…Both units had gifted pass rushers who also knew that job number
one was stopping the run. The key player for the Rams was Olsen.
At 6’5”, 265, he had a devastating bull rush and a fine talent
for mayhem, but he soon became the coordinator on the field, an
athlete whose instincts gave him a near-perfect read on
everything going on around him. “We took great pride in the fact
that every year the Foursome was together we improved against
the run,” Olsen says. “Everyone knew his role on that unit. A
guy like Deacon [who played end], well, you just turned him
loose. To ask him to play a reading defense would have been
insane. Rosey, who played next to me, was perhaps the quickest
off the ball, but if he saw that I was hung up, he’d just cover
for me. Lamar, on the other side, was 6’7″; he could worry a
quarterback, but he could also play traffic cop. It was very
pretty, the way we worked together.” -
This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by
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