zn wrote:

bnw wrote:

Who wears 34?

34 is Chase Reynolds.

From Drummond, Montana.

I feel like I know him because I spend a night at the Drummond Motel last summer on my way to Jellystone.

bnw wrote:

A non issue.

Right. It’s nothing serious like, say, a pickle jar. THAT reflects character.

C’mon.

It has the same wingspread, and the Gothic font.

There is no way it isn’t exactly what it looks like.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think the Green Party ought to represent the far right in this country.

InvaderRam wrote:

some guys just take a little longer. aikman was the number one overall pick, and it took him until his third year before he started showing his ability.

eli manning was also the number one overall pick, and it wasn’t until his fifth year that he showed he was a capable qb.

some guys just take longer. i saw goff’s first drive, and there are signs. i just hope it doesn’t take three seasons before he shows his ability. i hope against hope that he has a chance to start by midseason.

I don’t know how he gets the reps, though. Keenum gets the reps. That’s the way it goes.

I don’t foresee the guy starting this year. He doesn’t look close to me. He looks like half Sam Bradford, half Keystone Cops.

The guy is just not ready. At all.

On the bright side, he doesn’t look overwhelmed. At least I haven’t seen any symptoms of damaged confidence.

He just isn’t used to taking snaps from center, and the game is too fast.

I don’t know that “mentally ill” is the correct term. I have not read a lot about psychology. I always wanted to take a class in college, but never got around to it. But I think mental illness as a category is likely to cover medical issues rather than “craziness.” Stuff like depression, bi-polar disorders, chemical imbalances, and the like.

In reading about narcissism, I came across “schema therapy,” an approach to “maladaptive” schemas. These are ways of interpreting the world in a defective and unhealthy way. Dr. Jeffrey Young has identified 18 of these, and I think these are a better explanation for these world views than the concept of mental illness.

Here they are:

Early Maladaptive Schemas

1. ABANDONMENT / INSTABILITY (AB)

The perceived instability or unreliability of those available for support and connection.
Involves the sense that significant others will not be able to continue providing emotional support, connection, strength, or practical protection because they are emotionally unstable and unpredictable (e.g., angry outbursts), unreliable, or erratically present; because they will die imminently; or because they will abandon the patient in favor of someone better.

2. MISTRUST / ABUSE (MA)

The expectation that others will hurt, abuse, humiliate, cheat, lie, manipulate, or take advantage. Usually involves the perception that the harm is intentional or the result of unjustified and extreme negligence. May include the sense that one always ends up being cheated relative to others or “getting the short end of the stick.”

3. EMOTIONAL DEPRIVATION (ED)

Expectation that one’s desire for a normal degree of emotional support will not be adequately met by others. The three major forms of deprivation are:
A. Deprivation of Nurturance: Absence of attention, affection, warmth, or companionship.
B. Deprivation of Empathy: Absence of understanding, listening, self-disclosure, or mutual sharing of feelings from others.
C. Deprivation of Protection: Absence of strength, direction, or guidance from others.

4. DEFECTIVENESS / SHAME (DS)

The feeling that one is defective, bad, unwanted, inferior, or invalid in important respects; or that one would be unlovable to significant others if exposed. May involve hypersensitivity to criticism, rejection, and blame; self-consciousness, comparisons, and insecurity around others; or a sense of shame regarding one’s perceived flaws. These flaws may be private (e.g., selfishness, angry impulses, unacceptable sexual desires) or public (e.g., undesirable physical appearance, social awkwardness).

5. SOCIAL ISOLATION / ALIENATION (SI)

The feeling that one is isolated from the rest of the world, different from other people, and/or not part of any group or community.

6. DEPENDENCE / INCOMPETENCE (DI)

Belief that one is unable to handle one’s everyday responsibilities in a competent manner, without considerable help from others (e.g., take care of oneself, solve daily problems, exercise good judgment, tackle new tasks, make good decisions). Often presents as helplessness.

7. VULNERABILITY TO HARM OR ILLNESS (VH)

Exaggerated fear that imminent catastrophe will strike at any time and that one will be unable to prevent it. Fears focus on one or more of the following: (A) Medical Catastrophes: e.g., heart attacks, AIDS; (B) Emotional Catastrophes: e.g., going crazy; (C): External Catastrophes: e.g., elevators collapsing, victimized by criminals, airplane crashes, earthquakes.

8. ENMESHMENT / UNDEVELOPED SELF (EM)

Excessive emotional involvement and closeness with one or more significant others (often parents), at the expense of full individuation or normal social development. Often involves the belief that at least one of the enmeshed individuals cannot survive or be happy without the constant support of the other. May also include feelings of being smothered by, or fused with, others OR insufficient individual identity. Often experienced as a feeling of emptiness and floundering, having no direction, or in extreme cases questioning one’s existence.

9. FAILURE TO ACHIEVE (FA)

The belief that one has failed, will inevitably fail, or is fundamentally inadequate relative to one’s peers, in areas of achievement (school, career, sports, etc.). Often involves beliefs that one is stupid, inept, untalented, ignorant, lower in status, less successful than others, etc.

10. ENTITLEMENT / GRANDIOSITY (ET)

The belief that one is superior to other people; entitled to special rights and privileges; or not bound by the rules of reciprocity that guide normal social interaction. Often involves insistence that one should be able to do or have whatever one wants, regardless of what is realistic, what others consider reasonable, or the cost to others; OR an exaggerated focus on superiority (e.g., being among the most successful, famous, wealthy) — in order to achieve power or control (not primarily for attention or approval). Sometimes includes excessive competitiveness toward, or domination of, others: asserting one’s power, forcing one’s point of view, or controlling the behavior of others in line with one’s own desires—without empathy or concern for others’ needs or feelings.

11. INSUFFICIENT SELF-CONTROL / SELF-DISCIPLINE (IS)

Pervasive difficulty or refusal to exercise sufficient self-control and frustration tolerance to achieve one’s personal goals, or to restrain the excessive expression of one’s emotions and impulses. In its milder form, patient presents with an exaggerated emphasis on discomfort-avoidance: avoiding pain, conflict, confrontation, responsibility, or overexertion—at the expense of personal fulfillment, commitment, or integrity.

12. SUBJUGATION (SB)

Excessive surrendering of control to others because one feels coerced – – usually to avoid anger, retaliation, or abandonment. The two major forms of subjugation are:
A. Subjugation of Needs: Suppression of one’s preferences, decisions, and desires.
B. Subjugation of Emotions: Suppression of emotional expression, especially anger.
Usually involves the perception that one’s own desires, opinions, and feelings are not valid or important to others. Frequently presents as excessive compliance, combined with hypersensitivity to feeling trapped. Generally leads to a build up of anger, manifested in maladaptive symptoms (e.g., passive-aggressive behavior, uncontrolled outbursts of temper, psychosomatic symptoms, withdrawal of affection, “acting out”, substance abuse).

13. SELF-SACRIFICE (SS)

Excessive focus on voluntarily meeting the needs of others in daily situations, at the expense of one’s own gratification. The most common reasons are: to prevent causing pain to others; to avoid guilt from feeling selfish; or to maintain the connection with others perceived as needy . Often results from an acute sensitivity to the pain of others. Sometimes leads to a sense that one’s own needs are not being adequately met and to resentment of those who are taken care of. (Overlaps with concept of codependency.)

14. APPROVAL-SEEKING / RECOGNITION-SEEKING (AS)

Excessive emphasis on gaining approval, recognition, or attention from other people, or fitting in, at the expense of developing a secure and true sense of self. One’s sense of esteem is dependent primarily on the reactions of others rather than on one’s own natural inclinations. Sometimes includes an overemphasis on status, appearance, social acceptance, money, or achievement — as means of gaining approval, admiration, or attention (not primarily for power or control). Frequently results in major life decisions that are inauthentic or unsatisfying; or in hypersensitivity to rejection.

15. NEGATIVITY / PESSIMISM (NP)

A pervasive, lifelong focus on the negative aspects of life (pain, death, loss, disappointment, conflict, guilt, resentment, unsolved problems, potential mistakes, betrayal, things that could go wrong, etc.) while minimizing or neglecting the positive or optimistic aspects. Usually includes an exaggerated expectation– in a wide range of work, financial, or interpersonal situations — that things will eventually go seriously wrong, or that aspects of one’s life that seem to be going well will ultimately fall apart. Usually involves an inordinate fear of making mistakes that might lead to: financial collapse, loss, humiliation, or being trapped in a bad situation. Because potential negative outcomes are exaggerated, these patients are frequently characterized by chronic worry, vigilance, complaining, or indecision.

16. EMOTIONAL INHIBITION (EI)

The excessive inhibition of spontaneous action, feeling, or communication — usually to avoid disapproval by others, feelings of shame, or losing control of one’s impulses. The most common areas of inhibition involve: (a) inhibition of anger & aggression; (b) inhibition of positive impulses (e.g., joy, affection, sexual excitement, play); (c) difficulty expressing vulnerability or communicating freely about one’s feelings, needs, etc.; or (d) excessive emphasis on rationality while disregarding emotions.

17. UNRELENTING STANDARDS / HYPERCRITICALNESS (US)

The underlying belief that one must strive to meet very high internalized standards of behavior and performance, usually to avoid criticism. Typically results in feelings of pressure or difficulty slowing down; and in hypercriticalness toward oneself and others. Must involve significant impairment in: pleasure, relaxation, health, self-esteem, sense of accomplishment, or satisfying relationships.
Unrelenting standards typically present as: (a) perfectionism, inordinate attention to detail, or an underestimate of how good one’s own performance is relative to the norm; (b) rigid rules and “shoulds” in many areas of life, including unrealistically high moral, ethical, cultural, or religious precepts; or (c) preoccupation with time and efficiency, so that more can be accomplished.

18. PUNITIVENESS (PU)

The belief that people should be harshly punished for making mistakes. Involves the tendency to be angry, intolerant, punitive, and impatient with those people (including oneself) who do not meet one’s expectations or standards. Usually includes difficulty forgiving mistakes in oneself or others, because of a reluctance to consider extenuating circumstances, allow for human imperfection, or empathize with feelings.

COPYRIGHT 2012, Jeffrey Young, Ph.D. Unauthorized reproduction without written consent of the author is prohibited. For more information, write: Schema Therapy Institute, 561 10th Ave., Suite 43D, New York, NY 10036

As for what leads to this increase in maladaption, I would suggest that a lot of it may stem from the way our society has morphed since the industrial revolution. We are atomizing. We don’t live in molecular societies the way we used to. I have no data to back this up at all, but I would wager you would find greater mental health overall in more primitive communities than in more modern ones. Technology has greased the skids for increasing social isolation even as it presents the appearance of opening up greater social opportunities. I don’t know. But the alt right is troubling precisely because of the sincerity of their beliefs, and their unwillingness or inability to step out of maladaptive schemas.

Have you ever had difficulty opening a jar?

If so, you know it has nothing to do with physical fitness.

Opening a jar, or being unable to open a jar, is without question the poorest test for the presidency I have ever heard of.

NewMexicoRam wrote:

And then, there is historical evidence out there that ties these lines in the 3rd verse to the British habit of using hired mercenaries and captured American soldiers who were forced to work on the British behalf.

Nonetheless, even if the lyrics are meant in bigotry (it is known that FS Key owned slaves), it is clear that 99.9% of Americans don’t even know that 3rd verse and the vast majority would never sing them. Trying to tie past viewpoints to current understanding doesn’t seem fair to people who are alive today. Those should remain with the dead.

You may have a point, but if you were black, and accustomed to being treated with suspicion, you would probably see those lines as a reminder that your country sees you as a secondary citizen. Right?

And it is the National Anthem. It’s in the National Anthem. It’s not just another song. It’s the song the country stands up for, removes their hats for, and places their hands over their hearts for.

Agree. I didn’t like the trade, though I understood it.

Nothing to do now but hope Goff is the real thing.

wv wrote:

Well I dont think it will help much at all. But i think every little iota of leaning-toward-the-light helps. You didn’t just write it wouldnt help, but you wrote it would hurt. “divisive” etc.

Yeah, it’ll cause divisiveness, but it’ll cause other things too. All in all, I think its a ‘positive’ thing, despite the divisiveness.

Do you think the Carlos/Smith act was meaningless or divisive?

I like the fact it was aimed at Grid-iron fans. Gridiron fans get HEAVY dose after dose after dose of the usual pro-authority, pro-system crap. I am in favor of them seeing another point of view on that.

w
v

Yeah, me too.

Sometimes shaking things up a little is all you can do.

I am sorry Thomas wasn’t invited out by one of the papers. But I get it.

Imagine working at a paper for years, and the NFL comes to town, and rather than promoting from inside, they give the job to Thomas. It probably wouldn’t be good for morale. I dunno. I just think Thomas was always a good egg. Honest, no bullshit. Had integrity when it came to the tricky stuff in house he was privy to. Decent guy.

Yeah, I don’t know.

I wonder whether the people who are truly pissed off about this would be susceptible to persuasion in other ways anyway. And what are the alternatives?

What he has achieved is 3 or 4 days of people talking and writing about it, including the interesting piece that anchors this thread. That would not have been written if Kap stood up last weekend. Right?

It is true he can’t control the conversation once it begins, or even keep it focused on the issue he wants addressed (all kinds of digressions are going to crop up). But some people are talking about relevant aspects of this rather than just setting jerseys on fire and trolling the internet.

He needs to follow it up.

But, frankly, I don’t know what the cure is. It seems to me that police ought to be better trained. I’ve seen a video comparing training here versus Norway, and it’s kind of an eye-opener. And they should be trained to look for “tells” rather than to racially profile. Simulations can teach them that.

And we need to put more money are resources into minority communities, balance the way education is financed, and so on.

But none of that has any chance of happening without provocation of some kind. Had CK stood last weekend, this thread would not exist.

wv wrote:

—————–

The thing that gets me though, is how a lot of these mentally-ill folks get ‘some’ things right. I mean, i remember reading some of that stuff the Unibomber wrote, and he got some of it right. Charles Manson got some things right in an interview i read not too long ago. Alex Jones gets some things right. Even Zooey, sometimes gets some things right.

Even the unhinged seem to have some insight…it just gets mixed in with all kinds of
twisted-ness. Or somethin.

w
v

“Zooey is just too long; there are too many cigarettes, too many god-damns, too much verbal ado about not quite enough.”

~ John Updike

zn wrote:

Cool.