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wvParticipantthe tricky part is the part you called “unlucky”.
There’s people that would call those players
“bad signings”.Yeah I have had long, long disputes over the years with guys who just do not understand the effect of injuries.
When Wells and Long were playing okay in 2013, the Rams OL was ranked 13th by PFF.
It’s similar to people blaming all of 2007 on Bulger when that year the OL lost 10 guys to injury, including 4 for the season. There were people who could never get their heads around the fact that the OL injuries made a difference.
The issue with Long in 2013 was whether he had recovered enough from 2 arm injuries to play effectively. Well, he played fine that year…not like his old pro-bowl self, but effectively in a play action offense. The 2 arms did not foreshadow 2 knees. Anyone who thinks so, IMO, is just being superstitious.
.
I can see several different sides of it. I mean, Jake had a history
of injuries. Some posters thot he was put together with duck-tape
before the Rams signed him. So, i can see giving Snisher
a failing grade on the Jake Long signing.Personally, i liked the signing at the time.
I thought he was worth the risk, etc.Etc and so forth.
w
vwvParticipantcleveland pick six, to go up on denver — Peyton comes right back
with a 75 yard bomb — Den 23 Cleve 20. Late in 4thwvParticipantWell how do you guys view Snisher’s free-agent signings
so far?Cortland Finnegan, J. Cook, Jake Long, K Britt,
William Hayes…who else?w
vTrades AND FAs:
Good: Hayes, BarronOkay to Good-ish: Langford, Fairley, Ayers, Chris Williams, Barksdale, Richardson, Turner, Britt, Clemens, Dunbar, Reynolds
Unlucky: Long, Wells, Finnegan
Bad: Cook, joseph.
I would say it was okay to good-ish if it weren’t for the bad luck with guys getting injured.
Cook was a bad signing though, no 2 ways about it.
Mostly, however, what they did was sign inexpensive role players and rotation types. Look at the “okay to good-ish” list.
The UDFA list is far better though.
…
Interesting way to look at it. Obviously
the tricky part is the part you called “unlucky”.There’s people that would call those players
“bad signings”.I dunno, myself.
w
vwvParticipantWell, I just thought I’d put in my 45 cents. (Hey–inflation!)
I don’t know if folks have an accurate sense of my view of Fisher. I don’t consider myself a basher. I am not committed to removing him. Some folks in this thread do well to say, yeah, but who would replace him? And I can easily imagine worse.
I think his greatest contribution is to stabilize an organization. I dunno know much about what he did in TENN, but I understand stability under transitional duress is a big part of his success there. With us, he has established team stability under a lot of duress. That’s important.
My biggest problem with him is different from what seems to come through to folks reading my stuff. It is not about W/L record. Never has been.
It’s about his failure to lead the Rams as a team to play with discipline and consistency at or near their ceiling. They just do not compete at a high level in relationship to their talent and capability.
I think that’s damning to a guy making a claim to be a quality HC.
And, one more time, albeit briefly, I recall last year. When Sam went down, a winning W/L record probably went out the window. But even WITHOUT SAM, our defense, which was talented and not injury-riddled, was a roller coaster ride of performance. And we repeatedly lost games from winning positions.
That’s not something that can be blamed on injuries to QB or OL. It’s on the team’s discipline and performance. And in football, a coach’s game, that falls on the HC.
Looking ahead … he needs to establish his ability to lead a team to play at or near its ceiling on a consistent basis. He has not done it yet and hasn’t done it this year.
WV’s original post is right. This year is his test. He needs to raise the PERFORMANCE level of the team on a consistent basis. There is reason to hope, but I’m pretty doubtful that we won’t continue to see the same old mistake-riddled, undisciplined gyrations of performance that we’ve seen this year and the 3 foregoing years.
If that continues, he needs to go. And, again, I’m not putting a W/L record on it. Hell, we may get more injuries. But I want to see a team that competes every damn week, even if we lose. (And BTW, we competed against GB in a sense, but not really. We shot ourselves in every limb we had.) It Fisher cannot get this team to play its heart out every week, he doesn’t deserve to be a HC.
Of course, Zooey is right. Doesn’t matter what happens–Stan won’t fire him. When I say “He would need to go,” I am under no delusion that it would actually happen.
Assuming for a moment you are right about them being “undisciplined”,
do you think Fisher trades “fierceness” for discipline ?w
vwvParticipantCleveland hanging in there with the undefeated Broncos:
Denver 16
Cleve 14
with nine mins left.w
vOctober 18, 2015 at 3:23 pm in reply to: Minnesota Vikings: Should the team move on from Cordarrelle Patterson? #32554wvParticipantIt would double the “blame the OC”
threads, I betI see you post at the herd now and then. One fair warning: don’t talk like that there. They are strong there with the “blame the OC” force. Deviations are met with baffled questionings of your sanity and common sense (I exaggerate for fun).
I will always tread lightly over there
on the Big-Board. No Bozo-talk, no non-football stuff,
no Tapirs, no dissertations on Toasters…This little board is always home.
I can say what i want over here — I mean
if wanna scold Ag for being a low-down
Viking fan, i can do it.w
vwvParticipantWell how do you guys view Snisher’s free-agent signings
so far?Cortland Finnegan, J. Cook, Jake Long, K Britt,
William Hayes…who else?w
vOctober 18, 2015 at 10:07 am in reply to: Minnesota Vikings: Should the team move on from Cordarrelle Patterson? #32536wvParticipantI didnt realize he was having such a bad year.
Tavon and Cordarelle on the same team? That
might be funny. Or fun. Or somethin. I dunno.It would double the “blame the OC”
threads, I bet 🙂w
vwvParticipanthttp://www.breitbart.com/sports/2015/10/16/johnny-manziel-admits-to-drinking-again/
I personally would like the mass-media to arrange
a steel cage match
between Johnny Manziel and Tim Tebow.w
vOctober 17, 2015 at 9:41 pm in reply to: vid: Michigan v. Michigan State & improbable ending for Harbaugh #32503wvParticipantI’d never heard that Michigan State coach before,
but I listened to his interview after the hi-lite vid,
and he seemed like a straight-shooter.w
vOctober 17, 2015 at 8:49 pm in reply to: A closer look at what could be next for Rams and Saffold #32501wvParticipantI think the two big factors are:
1 Is the post-surgery shoulder solid,
and,
2 What other free agent VET guards
would be available if they released Saffold.w
vwvParticipant==
thehammer
Foles ran a 4.68 short shuttle and 7.14 3 cone…basically the worst scores by a qb going back to 2002…as far back as nfldraftscout kept records. A heavy legged, bad athlete that struggles moving inside the pocket. Flacco ran a 4.27 and a 6.82 in comparison.
my problem with Foles. isn’t his slow feet .it’s the mental part. I went back rewatched all his int’s at Philly. They were almost all identical..slow in his reads getting the ball to his 2nd receiver…just consistently late which shows in his time in the pocket.
Foles has averaged 2.84 sec in time to throw throw the ball(2.63 in 2015)for his career…scary slow times for a pocket passer..Brady and P Manning, two more bad athletes, avg around 2.3 secs and are always among the quickest in time to throw in the nfl. .
.5 seconds is an eternity in the pocket. He ain’t doing the young oline any favors and even Mannion, another bad athlete, only needed 2.35 secs to throw in the preseason…
bad athlete who is slow in his reads which shows in his play action qb rating of 111.3 and bad non play action qb rating of 66.5..also Foles has thrown away 16 balls this season the most in the nfl and almost twice as the next qb… Slow dropping back into the pocket and slow finding his 2nd option so often has to just throw the ball out of bounds when pressured
Foles is a qb you can lose with but that might be a tad harsh. Best comparision might be Matt Schaub at Houston but Schaub had Andre Johnson to throw to who could easily beat man coverage…Rams don’t have wr on the team who wins 1 v. 1
Foles has a lot to like, hard worker, good size, great touch on his intermediate, long routes and is fearless… BUT also has serious negatives…struggles without play action, needs great pass protection and a good #1 wr capable of winning 1 v. 1 battles to be effective.
————————–
Interesting stuff. Lots to wonder about with Mr. Foles.
On the other side of the ledger — take another look
at THE clutch pass to Stedman Bailey. That
pass is just F’ing Awesome. A game-winner.w
vwvParticipantSure looks like spearing in that photo.
Course, the Refs dont have the ability
to stop reality and look at things
all slowed-down or stopped.
Ya know.I saw an episode once where Some aliens
on the Outer Limits
had that ability. But i dont think refs
have the technology.w
vwvParticipantI wouldn’t mind seeing the Browns game.
I dont believe I’ve wanted to actually see
a Browns games since….um….Brian Sipe?w
vwvParticipantthat’s pretty much how i feel. as of now, i’m happy with him as the head coach. and i fully expect this team to finish with a winning record.
but i might feel differently when the season ends and no progress has been made.
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Sometimes it just depends who’s available. I mean
if Sid Gillman or Bill Walsh is available,
I’d probly be in favor of a change, myself.My own view of Fisher is on record — I think
he can definitely build a “winning team” ie.,
a team that can win a division. I just dont
know if he can be more than a Shottenheimer-Chuck-Knox
type. I dunno.My biggest concern is with his ideas about Offense.
I am not sure about his notions in regard to the
passing-game. I dunno.w
vwvParticipantYep, the players know Fisher’s system well.
Stuck at .500 play over the last 3 1/2 years.————————
Well its been a slow, up-and-down, frustrating,
decade aint it.I ‘think’ we are nearing the end of the tunnel,
and I ‘think’ there is light at the end of the
tunnel. I think.Friend of mine just came back from New Mexico, btw.
She said NM has the best rocks in America.w
vwvParticipant===========================
Laram — Anbody focus on Greg Robinson in that film?IF so, anybody that thought that TG got most of his yards running behind GRob should know better now.
GRob was doing nothing notable in those runs by Gurley, and the best block I saw him make was pretty close to a cut block.
I don’t recall if somebody had the defender high, GRob cut him low creating a seal.
GRob would have to be my most disappointing player.
I had hope for the proverbial, “Year 2 leap”, that I have yet to see thus far.
Btw, watch Tim Barnes, he is relentless.
He’ll hit his guy then quickly get to the second level and hit another guy.
He’s showing good power knocking guys completely out of the whole with a punch.
Happy for him.
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This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantWell that was quite good.
w
vwvParticipantI heard this on 101, the Rams had the hardest schedule for the first 5 games and now have the 30th hardest schedule
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I dunno much about the Browns. Apparently,
McCown is doing good things:“…McCown’s career- and record-setting performance led the Browns to a 33-30 overtime win in Baltimore. He became the first Browns quarterback in franchise history to throw for over 300 yards in three consecutive games and also set the team’s single-game passing record with 457 yards through the air. He also became the first signal-caller in NFL history to throw for more than 450 yards with two touchdowns while running for another score without throwing an interception in a single game…”
w
vwvParticipantWell, Foles is ‘saying’ all the right things.
w
v============
Foles picks up the pieces after career-worst game
• By Jim Thomas
http://www.stltoday.com….
“I felt all right,” Foles said with a shrug. “I was able to get out of bed, and get some work in and get the blood flowing again. I felt good. Good Lord protected the body throughout the game, so I feel good.”…
“Nick’s tough,” said linebacker James Laurinaitis. “Not just physically; he’s mentally tough. Even when things aren’t going well, you won’t see him on the sidelines pouting. … He really just forgets about it and goes out there the next drive and believes the next drive’s gonna be successful. In the long run that’s gonna help us.
“When you have a QB that’s even-keel like that — the guys around him, it kind of gives them more confidence. He’s not gonna shy away from his mistakes. He’ll go up to the guys and say: ‘It was my bad, next time we’re gonna put points on the board.’ ”,,,
“Developing character you learn from mistakes,” Foles said. “It’s just how do you learn from those things? I look at them critically, and I want to get back on the practice field and improve on the things I didn’t do well. So this time is very valuable.”,,,
“How can I get a little bit better this week?” Foles said. “How can I get a little bit better today? You can see guys are doing that, and that’s what we’ve gotta keep doing.”…
“I feel like I progressed,” Foles said. “There’s definitely been some growing pains, and I’m learning. … I want to keep building, keep improving. The big thing is just being consistent every week and putting us in a situation where we can win the game.”…
wvParticipantyeah. if they can’t make a run here, i seriously gotta wonder if the rams need to be thinking about a new head coach.
at this point with the talent they’ve added it’s time we see some results.
i hope that oline is working out the kinks during the bye week.
——————
For better or worse, rightly or wrongly, I figure
Kroenke will give Fisher a fifth
year, as long as he hovers around .500 this year.I mean, a change now, might make things worse. Ya know.
The players know this system — would they play better
if they had to learn a new system?At any rate, yeah, the team has an opportunity
here to make a run. If they dont, I’m gonna
be quite disappointed. They have the talent.Run Gurley, run Tavon, dont turn it over.
w
vwvParticipantThot this was interesting:
“…The company now makes most of its money from licensing its ubiquitous brand and logo across the world — 40 percent of that business is in China even though the magazine is not available there — for bath products, fragrances, clothing, liquor and jewelry among other merchandise. Nudity in the magazine risks complaints from shoppers, and diminished distribution…”
w
vwvParticipant“…The four interceptions were the most since Keith Null threw five picks against the Titans in 2009. This was the 29th time in franchise history that a Rams opponent intercepted at least four passes and the Rams are now 2-27 in those games…”
Anybody know the two games they won with Four INTs ?
w
vwvParticipant”We worked on it a lot today, just because it was so obvious that teams have noticed we’ve struggled with it and if we don’t fix it it’s going to continue to happen,” Robinson said. ”Once you stop them, they’ll stop gaming us.”
————–
I think the entire season,
basically hinges on this.w
vOctober 13, 2015 at 4:03 pm in reply to: Wagoner: Todd Gurley is already the Rams' offensive centerpiece #32308wvParticipantI love the fact he’s doing this with a brace on.
Lookin forward to seeing him go full throttle
at some point. Probably next year.w
vwvParticipantWell, Cleveland is a must win.
So Fisher better come up with a
good game-plan and the OLine
had better work their butts off
during the bye.Thats all I’m sayin.
w
vOctober 12, 2015 at 8:03 pm in reply to: Proud of the defense. Offense? Not so much… (game reaction thread) #32276wvParticipantOk, i watched NFL Replay.
1st Quarter –
Plenty of big plays in the first quarter: The pick 6 ; TJ McDonald’s diving tackle to stop Lacy on fourth and one; Barron’s fine play to tip the ball to James L for the INT.
Plenty of bonehead plays in the first quarter: Cook dropped a third down pass in the first series. Britt dropped a pass on the second possession. Fairly gets an offsides prior to the TD pass.
But the play that most typified the first quarter was the pulverizing, Foles-gerizing, atomizing, bulgerizing-body-shattering hit on Foles, early in the quarter. It reminded me of the hit on Jeff George in the Viking playoff game of 99. IF that hit didn’t cause some cracked ribs and a concussion, I dunno what would. You just cant have hits like that and have any kind of offense. Foles was Bulgerized the rest of the quarter when he tried to stand in the pretend-pocket.
Not counting the deflection-completion to Benny, Foles was 1 of 9 before the pick6.
I am not sure I have ever seen a Ram OLine look as bad as what I saw in the first quarter on the warm tundra. Holy shit.2nd Quarter —
2nd Quarter opens with Saffold out with an injury (shocking) and Greg Robinson with a foot problem – O dear…the Oline will get worse…And yet the Rams won the quarter 10 to 0. Fouts called the long Ram-TD-Drive an “attitude drive” and he was right. Fisher got tired of the hideous-awful-nightmarish pass-non-protection and just decided to give up on modern football, and run Tavon outside and Gurley inside. I mean its historic Old-school Lam-bo field — why not.
My favorite play of the 2nd quarter was a simple, QB sneak by Foles. It was third and one and the Interior of the Oline just blew up the GB DLine. John Madden would have loved the play. Vince Lombardi would have loved the play. Just big strong fat men ramming into big strong fat men.
The Rams tried to turn the game into a slugfest in the second quarter. Frazier vs Ali. It worked for a Quarter.
Most disappointing play of the quarter was Brian Quick’s uncoordinated, non-physical play on the ball in the endzone. I used to see Quick “misjudge” passes in his rookie year – and now he’s doing it again. Maybe he needs more reps, or more success, i dunno.
Tru Johnson’s INT looked like a trap to me, btw. Nice play but it looked like a trap. Rogers was moving the team, dinking and dunking and scrambling effectively up until the trap. I mean interception.
3rd Quarter —
The Third Quarter was like a weird meshing of the First and Second Quarter. Foles was mauled often and only had 54 total yards passing at the end of the Third Quarter. The Packers and Matthews and Peppers massacred the Rams passing pockets. The signature play in the 3rd was when Foles was engulfed and stripped of the ball.On the other hand, just like in the 2nd quarter the Rams Gurley-attack was chugging along. (90 yards after 3 quarters) In the quarter the Puncher blew two long FG’s and Rogers stung like a bee as Joyner lost coverage on the long TD pass. Pack won the 3rd Quarter 7-0 and led in the game 21-10.
Looking back and knowing what we know now – I’da run Gurley on almost every play and tossed in a Tavon play now and then.
Is it possible the Rams have the best running attack and worst passing attack in the NFC ? What kinda weird throwback team is that??
4th Quarter —
Receiver-Rogers drops a big pass, and then gets penalized to cancel 3 points for GB.
Rams ball. Gurley thunders for 55 yards. Then Tavon squirts for 15. First and goal from the ten. Tre stumbles for two yards. Gurley circles wide for one.
Third and goal from the seven….9 minutes left…and Foles…drops back to pass (this cant be good!)…and…and…finally has time to throw…..and a clean pocket….OMG, a clean pocket…and…and…Foles…throws to…Joe Thomas. Ha Ha gets the deflection.
I don’t think Kendricks was open, but the ball was behind the non-open Kendricks, anyway.
Foles was probably so utterly bulgerized (or Folgerized) by that time that he was just thrilled to be STANDING UP in a clean pocket – his brain was so ecstatic to have a clean pocket that he just happily zipped the ball…forward…ANYWHERE…in the air.Ah well.
I had to turn off Replay at this point because I cannot bear to watch the last nine minutes. No way I wanna watch anymore of the Rams Pocket-Madness. I cannot even imagine the kind of mahem the Rams OLinemen would cause as the clock ticks away and they HAVE to pass. Good god. The Horror. Apocalypse in Green Bay.
I hope Chris Long’s knee just needs a bye.
I predicted ten wins. If the Rams OLine learns to pass-block over the Bye, I still say they get ten wins.
If the Rams OLine doesn’t learn to pass-block over the bye – Fisher will go 8 and 8, and I will shit a brick.
w
vOctober 12, 2015 at 9:27 am in reply to: reactions around the net to the Packers game (if you see one you like add it) #32200wvParticipant—————————————————-
LaramThe good
Todd Gurley – BEAST! But here is the kicker. Even with 159 yards rushing from TG, the Rams got only 10 points and nothing in the pass game. Something doesn’t jive there. That should have opened PA, or at least given Foles an extra beat or two in the pocket. Really a strange phenomenon to me.
Rams defense – Played extremely well and better than I thought they would. Three to’s against Aaron Rodgers and really just 14 points allowed is an exceptional defensive performance. Other than a couple of mental errors, they were strong. Offense put them in bad positions.
Janoris Jenkins – He got looks but was only thrown at once that I recall. He has really cleaned up his fundamentals.
Mark Barron – Was all over the field today making tackles and had a nice deflection which caused an INT.
Run blocking – Was intermittent, but when it was good, it was very good.
Johnny Hekker – Great heads up play by the Hekker. Kept the play alive by buying time, made a risky throw but got away with it.
The bad
Nick Foles – Taking two delay of game penalties. When you lean down under center and look up, you are looking right at the play clock. No excuse for it.
Cignetti – Was bad today and did absolutely nothing to help his o-line or the qb in the pass game. When you qb is holding onto the ball to long and you o-line can’t hold off the pass rush…you as the OC need to adjust. Quick throws, screens, slants, something to slow down the rush and get Foles some easy throws. Its like a shooter in basketball, sometimes you need a lay-up just to see the ball go through the net.
Zuerlin – Low trajectory on one kick, poor accuracy on another. Would you really trust him in a BIG game to win it?
The ugly
Nick Foles – Yep he shows up in two categories. I know he got very little help from his o-line, but his decision making was absolutely horrid. He forced a number of passes and when he did have time to throw, his accuracy was not good. I understand that a qb will have bad days, but I’m seeing some tendencies in Foles that I have seen before. Take a sack Nick, sometimes its better than the alternative.
Receiving core – With the exception of Austin and Bailey, who didn’t get many opportunities in the game, save the Heykel and Jekyll play…they were all bad. Cook is Cook and I still don’t know why Quick jumped for the ball when he didn’t have to. More times than not when you see that type of play. the receiver drops the pass. Britt was invisible, and Kendricks has never been a consistent option. I didn’t see as many drops as whats being reported, but nobody stood up either!
Pass pro – Way to many breakdowns by the o-line from mental to physical errors. Reynolds blowing a blitz assignment, GRob getting whipped, Saffold, Barnes, Hav, Brown…take your pick. Just an awful performance today by a unit that we hoped was gaining some momentum.
Coaching – Jeff Fisher was horrible in clock management and understanding game situations. Down two scores in the 4th quarter the Rams should have been in hurry up mode. With 4:00 left in the game they were acting like they were up two scores, instead of behind two.
A 63 yard fg really Jeff? He is totally enamored with the fact that GZ has a big leg. We’ve seen it now for 4 years that he has been the Rams HC. Go for it, I think NFL stats will prove 4th and 7 has a better chance of being made over a 63 yard fg. Play the percentages!!!
Jeff Fisher is also responsible for what we are seeing from the o-line. Most of us expect a young inexperienced o-line to be up and down. So he really didn’t give this team much room for error by relying on one. He doesn’t have Tom Brady at qb, nor does he have Julio Jones at receiver.
When you have players of that caliber, you can overcome some deficiencies upfront. You can win some games that you might otherwise lose, and remain competitive in the division while you give a unit time to come together.
With Fisher its always been the necessary pieces on offense that continue to hold his teams back. You would think he would adjust after so many years, but obviously you can’t teach this old dog, new tricks!.
Just poor coaching and careless play on offense that has to be demoralizing to a defense that once again…played its heart out!!
October 11, 2015 at 8:03 pm in reply to: Proud of the defense. Offense? Not so much… (game reaction thread) #32164wvParticipantI havent watched it yet, but I will watch it on Replay.
Strange team. So many strengths on this team,
but the OLine is dragging everything down. So far.At any rate, losing to GB in GB is to be expected.
They gotta win the next one.
w
vwvParticipantBarron
w
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