bnw wrote:

nittany ram wrote:

Zooey wrote:

Jesus made the plants the way they are, Nittany.

Yeah but he didn’t make them productive, flood resistant or pest resistant enough to feed all his children.

Fortunately the devil came along and created GMOs. Thank God.

I think it is weird that the two of you viw man made global warming as the ultimate disaster to mankind when the very food supply for your survival into the next month is truly threatened to become a monopoly of a few corporations. So odd.

I haven’t said anything about gmos so far.

As it happens, I have concerns.

But if corporations start threatening our survival, there are things that governments can do to address that. And, as Nittany points out, patents expire. Furthermore, most of the food supply is still the same as it always was. So there is no danger of our food supply completely shutting down next month.

Global warming, otoh, can’t be controlled simply by passing a bill stating that the planet cannot warm up any more. The two things aren’t even comparable in their threat level.

So they’re not that far behind us.

waterfield wrote:

Unfortunately Zooey-I think your wrong. People in this country have come to love the bully. People hear a baby cry in church “want” to say take the baby out of her. Same with people in a theater and a restaurant, etc. But they don’t. People identify with the guy and wish they could do the same thing. Were a country in love with ass holes. That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.

I’m not sure what I’m wrong about. I concede that people love a bully. What I posited is that the bull-lovers are already lined up behind him, and if he wants to expand his appeal, it won’t be through bullying MORE. Unless you think there are some diehards out there who aren’t convinced that he is enough of a bully, and are waiting to see some serious bully action, like attacking crying babies.

sdram wrote:

I’m not trying to stir up anything but this last week makes me wonder about him. Is he truly trying to win or is it all a sham?

Seems like he’s playing the snidely whiplash role – to lose intentionally.

I don’t think he thought he had any chance to win when he first entered the race. I think he was running for the media exposure, and thought he could spend his campaign money on his own companies. Which he did.

Then, I think, his ego got the better of him once he took the lead. But all along, he has not taken campaigning seriously. He has brought in no real help, has no organization in his organization, morale is low on his staff (allegedly), and it doesn’t look good.

I don’t know. He certainly doesn’t act like a man who is seriously trying to win.

And all throughout the Dem Conv, I noted hearing about the Middle Class again and again and again. To the Democrats, the Middle Class seems to be synonymous with the “bottom 90%.”

Poor people are so unpopular, talking about relieving their poverty with programs is so unpopular, they never got mentioned. The closest thing, iirc, was saying that a person who works 40 hours a week should get paid a living wage.

Otherwise…invisible.

Clinton supporter.

Got both Sanders’ supporters and Trump wrong.

Sure, Clinton has started saying a lot of Sanders’ things, but he misses the point that one of the criticisms of Clinton is she “will say anything, and do nothing.” And he acts like Sanders supporters are babies because they have trouble believing a woman who has been erratic in her promises, and consistent in her actions.

Meanwhile, Trump is not outwardly threatening fascism, or even implying it. Perhaps the author doesn’t know what fascism is.

wv wrote:

Zooey wrote:

No

Trump is the end of the world.

————–
I dunno, Zooey. Clinton is a known quantity.

But Trump has never held office before, right?
Do we really know what he would do or try to do?

I am not persuaded we do. And I am not persuaded that 8 years of Clinton
would be better than four years of Trump.

I dont think the Dems ever
change if Clinton wins. I think the only way they move left
is if Clinton loses.

So for me, its complicated. For me, Trump is a very strange mix of knowns
and unknowns.

I’m not trying to ‘persuade’ anyone of anything. Not the least bit
interested in that. Just sharing my own view.

Now the Supreme Court is a big deal, and it ‘almost’
decides things for me. But in the end, I dont trust Clinton
to nominate anyone that would vote against Corporate Personhood. Citizens United, maybe, but not Corporate Personhood — and the biosphere was being destroyed long before Citizens United. It just speeded things up. So, i dont see her as changing the trajectory of the war against the poor and the biosphere. I think she’d do all the usual things with regard to identity politix…..

w
v

I understand all of that, and have voiced the theory that 4 years of Trump > than 8 years of Clinton myself.

But in order to swallow that theory, one has to assume that congress wouldn’t let him do anything too outrageous, and that he would lose after one term. Now while I thought that was reasonable a couple of months ago – and still think it is partially (i.e. Congress wouldn’t build a damn wall, and he wouldn’t get a second term in all likelihood), I’ve started to consider him as more dangerous than before in light of revelations in the past month about the depth of his sociopathic behavior.

This guy has repeatedly, deliberately shafted small businesses. He has no honor. One of his signature glories is yelling, “You’re fired!” He actually enjoys crushing human beings. His ignorance of both domestic and foreign affairs is breathtaking for a 70-year old. He doesn’t have anything but the most superficial understanding of what policies are, or what they’re for, let alone how they work and affect people. And he doesn’t care.

You read, I presume, the Kasich insider claim that Trump offered Kasich oversight of domestic and foreign policy? Leaving Trump the task of Making America Great? Kasich refused, so he settled on Mike Pence. Mike Pence is one of those…I don’t even think there is a term for it. The conservatives who are so far to the right that they are terrifying – guys like Walker, Ryan, Cruz, Huckabee, McConnell, Bachmann, Coulter, Ingraham…oh, man, there are a LOT of names. And congress is filled with people like that.

So if you have Mike Pence basically being in charge of policy while Trump provides the bluster, you are looking at an agenda that wants to dismantle everything. They will lay assault on what’s left of unions, environmental protections, consumer protections, pensions, social security, public education, women’s rights, voting ID, overtime pay, the minimum wage for god’s sake, national parks, the Entire Wet Dream Agenda of the sociopathic corporatists. And then entrench it all permanently by making the Supreme Court a 7-2 majority of Thomases and Alitos.

The damage could be vast and irreversible.

You are handing over all three branches of government to a party filled with goblins.

You think that won’t happen? I don’t see how they could be stopped.

And that’s not even considering stuff like the likely increase in Hate crimes since Trump implicitly condones violence against the Others.

No.

Trump is the end of the world.

No matter who wins, half of this country is going to be pissed. I mean seriously out-of-their-minds pissed. It could be pretty ugly.

I think Hillary will win because at the end of the day, she’s safer.

But her negatives are high, and we are going to hear nothing but how crooked she is, and if there are further revelations about her emails, or another terrorist attack or two…. I can’t say I have much confidence. Just that – as things stand right now – election held today – she would narrowly win.

I feel PA’s pain being in a swing state. I tell you, though, the clincher for me is the SCOTUS appointments. I can’t see Ginsburg lasting another 4 years, and the other two 79/80 year-olds may also go. That could be up to three seats flipped from moderate/liberal to conservative, making the SC 7-2 conservative for the next 25 years. That would put an END to the efforts at reform because there is no way we could get rid of corporate personhood or anything else affecting trade, workers’ rights and safety, and so on. It would just completely be over at that point.

Trump is the end of the world.

Clinton probably is the end of the world. But. She DOES have a history of of pliability. She has an eye on the wind sock at all times. The left sees that as a sellout, but her backers see that as pragmatic. I see it as a tiny opportunity. IF the “revolution” keeps the heat on high, something might be accomplished. The main thing is to start making progress in every other public office downstream.

Interesting question. I bet there are a number of reasons, maybe better than the one that comes to my mind, but I will venture this:

FOX News and all the talk radio. The viewers/listeners are predominantly older, white males. And FOX, Rush, Savage, and all those dicks are the primary Clinton hatemongers.

Ooo…here’s an article I found after I decided to double-check the demographics.

It finds that FOX news is actually more “monochromatically white” than the Republican Party, and the average viewer is 68. It concludes that “Fox News isn’t a television network. It is a retirement home/echo chamber for old white conservatives,” and that FOX is actually dying of old age since younger viewers aren’t going there for their news.

Fox News Is Literally Dying Of Old Age As Younger Viewers Refuse To Watch Fox

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/26/who_should_bernie_voters_support_now

Fascinating discussion for anyone interested in replacing neoliberalism. I find myself torn. Both of these guys recognize the severity of the systemic problem, but have different perspectives on what to do about it. I would like to have heard more of Hedges’ thoughts on what we should DO, though. He never really gets around to answering that question. I think he may be right that Sanders blew it by not running with Stein because there is something unrealistic, it seems to me, about Reich’s proposal that we start forming a third party now for 2020. This was the moment. Running as a democrat in order to get on the national stage was a good idea. If Sanders had run as an independent, he would have been completely marginalized like Nader was, and achieved nothing. But using his profile to jumpstart a third party NOW would have viable.

Imagine if Kerry or Obama had said this about W’s emails, or Cheney’s, or Rumsfeld’s.

The right wing would have lost their minds screaming for him to be charged with treason.

Western Illinois University has predicted it accurately every election since 1976. Down to the state, I believe.

However, they predicted Bernie Sanders would win this time, so….

wv wrote:

Zooey wrote:

I take that back.

Trump is ignorant, but I retract the claim that he is proud of it. There is no evidence of that. There is evidence that he doesn’t care that he is ignorant, and that’s different. He is ignorant, and he doesn’t care enough to get informed. That is more accurate.

—————-

Well, i have not studied Trump. Like, at all. But my own limited unstudied sense is
he truly believes in what he is doing. I thought Bush did too. And Reagan. I mean, i do think all these weasels really believe their own words for the most part on the ECONOMIC stuff.

Not on the religious stuff necessarily. I think most of em pretend to believe in the Christian god and the fairy-tale stuff, but Economics — i think they believe their own rhetoric. I think.

Agree? Disagree? Dont care? Warner? Bulger?

w
v

No, not quite. Well, sort of.

My wife has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I’ve read a lot about it because I have to deal with it daily.

Narcissists tend to believe whatever they are saying at any given moment. And they can say something completely contradictory later, and believe THAT, and deny that they ever said the first thing. It happens All The Time.

Trump does that. He contradicts shit he said a month ago, and believes himself passionately both times. So Trump believes everything he says, yes. But his belief is a momentary belief. A belief of the present. If that makes sense. He has no overarching set of principles. No guidelines. No actual philosophical foundation. He believes whatever he feels like believing at the moment. Trust me on this. My wife is a narcissist, and I deal with this every day of my life, for 25 years now. I recognize the symptoms.

bnw wrote:

Zooey wrote:

He will beat Bush for vacation days.

But will he beat Obama who has set the record for vacation days?

Oh, stop it.

I don’t like Obama, and I didn’t vote for him either time, but he has been more “responsible” as a president than George Bush was. George Bush is arguably the Worst President Ever, and that is a judgement I make without regard to my political preferences. And Trump will be as bad, or worse. He is ignorant, and he is proud of it.

Carson’s mention of of the Trilateral Satanic Commingling was my favorite part of the convention so far. Probably the only thing I will remember about it in 10 years.

Follow the logic here: Hillary wrote a paper on Saul Alinsky who once off-handedly mentioned Lucifer. Therefore………………. Hillary is in league with Satan.

Awesome.

You know, I keep seeing these articles about how the GOP is imploding.

It’s not imploding.

These people have been saying out loud the most batshit crazy ass shit for YEARS, and it makes no difference. They still love Sarah Palin. I mean…you know…she should have finished off the last shred of respectability of the party of Lincoln long ago. And yet…here they are. These people occupy enough of this country to elect Donald Trump – DONALD TRUMP – as president.

At least the death of the planet will draw big ratings.