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wvParticipantSpeaking out against the war, naming it the war in Russia is now punishable by a prison term. Between that and crushing sanctions, I am full of fear for loved ones there, but ones in Ukraine are still worse off, of course. I am absolutely hopeless and heartbroken.
— katya (@kazbek) March 4, 2022
wvParticipant…Cruz said. “But we should not be calling for the assassination of heads of state,” he added. . . .
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Course US sponsored torturing, bombing and mass-murdering of
‘ordinary’ humans all over the planet in capitalist-imperialist-resource-wars
is fine and dandy.
Just dont go giving people any ideas about assassinating…um…politicians.
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wvParticipant…Isn’t it natural that they want to move away from Russian influence? …”
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Well we just see it differently, and I’m pretty sure its simply because
we come at things from a different point on the political-compass,
and we view capitalism differently.
But that question you ask is a good one. But it brings up so many deep political issues involving ANY nation-state. Who is the ‘they’ that want to move away from Russian influence? What are the Ukranians’ options? Maybe ‘they’ prefer neutrality? What if the percentages are all over the place and depend on the amount and level of information the Ukranians have? What if ‘X’ group of Ukranians prefers russian influence, ‘Y’ group prefers Nato, and ‘Z’ group prefers neutrality, and ‘W’ group has no idea?
There’s a gazillion questions and I would never trust the US/Western media or ‘academics’ or ‘experts’ (or the Russians) to ask those questions, or answer those questions.
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wvParticipantRebecca’s views do not resonate with me, fwiw: “…One of the things I liked about the idea of an Elizabeth Warren presidency was her boldness and acuity in diagnosing the sheer scale of the problem and her radical but pragmatic solutions…” R. Solnit w v
Well, hopefully, you’re not dismissing her article about Trump/Putin based just on her views about Warren. .. Aside from her take on Warren, what do you think Solnit gets wrong?
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I dont think she gets anything wrong about Putin/Trump. But then I dont think Jimmy Dore gets anything wrong about Biden and M4A.
Solnit and Dore both give me problems. If you read Solnit stuff (and i have two of her books) she blames Reps, and was soft on Obama. She actually blamed ‘the people’ for not essentially moving Obama more to the left. She didnt blame him. So she triggers me, the same way Dore triggers me or any ‘blue team’ or ‘red team’ person triggers me.
The only ones who dont trigger me, at this late stage of my life
are the folks who rip into the dems and the reps, both. And that aint Solnit, and that aint Dore. Its the anti-capitalists. And there aint many out there in the US.
I mean, why doesnt she do an article about how her Dems and the reps
are both destroying peace and life on this planet? Why is that impossible for her (and Dore, and all the rest) to do? I suspect its because they would not be able to earn a living in this country.
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wvParticipantSo what are we expecting as far as Comp picks?
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- Fifth-round pick (own)
- Seventh-round pick (own)
- Seventh-round pick (via Miami in Aqib Talib trade)
wvParticipantmahomes, allen, and jackson for sure.
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I would not take Lamar J, myself. I want no-look passes.
And i want a QB with an eerie spooky connection with Mr Kupp.
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wvParticipantI did a study on this a while ago. 98% of the time the word "oligarch" is used in western media, it was referring to Russia or other ex-Eastern Bloc countries. https://t.co/jmCN5L2pyb
— Alan MacLeod (@AlanRMacLeod) March 3, 2022
wvParticipantRebecca’s views do not resonate with me, fwiw:
“…One of the things I liked about the idea of an Elizabeth Warren presidency was her boldness and acuity in diagnosing the sheer scale of the problem and her radical but pragmatic solutions…” R. Solnit
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wvParticipant…It’s interesting that most of them could retain their friendships, despite major political differences. I imagine that would not be the case if they were coming of age today. Thanks for posting this.
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The problem/dynamic Marquez had, as laid out in that vid, fascinates me.
I see that issue play out all the time among leftists all over the internet.
I had a short exchange with Caitlin Johnstone on twitter about this topic.
And i got booted off an old british message board (the Lifeboat) because
of this ‘issue’ — Ie., do you refrain from criticizing Castro, Hugo Chavez, Lenin etc (or in my case Assad)
because ‘any’ criticism will just be used by the Capitalist-West to further its biosphere-killing-agenda. In the case of Marquez, he genuinely liked Castro as a friend, but he didnt like the authoritarian stuff. But he chose NOT to criticize Castro because, as he noted it would be used by the West against socialism. The other approach is just to ‘tell the truth’ however you see it.
I go back and forth on this. Its not an easy answer for me. Used to be easy, but I’m not sure anymore. I used to think “just call it like you see it” — but now, I think that may be similar to people saying “I’m color-blind” etc.
I dunno.
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wvParticipantStarted this at the 13:28 mark, cuz his sentence at that point is how i see it.
Finnish-Bolshevik:
wvParticipantLiberal outrage perfectly distilled in one image pic.twitter.com/BQU7d3zoCb
— Michael Parenti’s Stache 🚩☭ (@Karl_Was_Right) February 28, 2022
wvParticipantNot a tweet, but a short vid:
wvParticipantUkraine: the history behind Russia’s claim that Nato promised not to expand to the east=======
Strange, because he also wrote this in 2014:
https://gavinelhall.blogspot.com/2014/
‘…Ukraine is dependant on Russia for its energy. It is dependant on the European Union for far less other than harder to quantify aspirations to a Western way of life. Therefore, it may well be the case that history reflects that the EU and NATO have been complicit in the present situation by tangling an unreachable carrot for Ukraine.
Incidentally at numerous times during the 1990s Russia was given assurances that the EU and NATO would not impact Russia’s sphere of influence. The abandonment of this premise is a significant reason behind the current tensions…”
wvParticipantWouldn’t a better metaphor be–your dumb ass, drunken buffoon of a neighbor buys a big old pit bull. He, of course, treats the dog like shit and doesn’t train it. One day, the dog gets out and bites your daughter in the face. You get to spend a whole day in the ER, your daughter has a scar on her face for the rest of her life, and when you call the cops they don’t do shit. You put up a fence and tell your neighbor if you see his dog in your yard you’re going to shoot it. He spends the next decade pissing on your fence in front of your 8 year old daughter before one day he tears it down and has a bunch of his buddies attack you.
This analogy is getting unwieldy here, but you get the point, right?
Yes, NATO expanded before Putin ever came to power. But was that because the west coerced countries like Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, etc. or because those countries lived with corrupt Soviet control for years and felt legitimately threatened by their large, nuclear power neighbor who had a history of expanding its borders with imperialistic zeal? The only means of security and independence for some of those countries is nuclear weapons or joining NATO. This seems like an easy choice to me.
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Nah, i dont see that analogy at all.
I posted a long response, Cal, but after reading it, i zapped it,
because i cant respond to any of that without going down a rabbit hole
I dont wanna go down.
We just come at this from different points on the political compass,
I think.
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wvParticipantYeah, I was wondering about the Littleton and Fowler thing.
I had a feeling there was a ‘Donald Effect’ on all the other rams defensive starters.
I would think Donald improves the play of every single player on defense (offense?) including Ramsay.
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wvParticipantI’m gonna repost this Mearsheimer vid. I started this one at a certain point where he says “the west is leading Ukraine down the primrose path…”
He said this in 2015.
Now, I dont share Mearsheimer’s politics. He believes the west wants to “spread democracy” blah blah. But i still think he has some interesting insights on the geo-chess-game the west is playing with russia and china.
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wvParticipantWV, Good response. And spiced up with some of your ™humor too. That’s needed right now. My earlier long and winded road, regarding capitalism: I think if I hadn’t written it, I wouldn’t know what the hell I was saying either. ;>) Basically, on your earlier question about ultimate responsibility for the invasion: Yes, capitalism. It creates an entirely artificial climate of bottom-up competition for jobs and scarce resources, to go with the top-down stuff that’s always been there. It’s likely the first economic system in history that developed its own gaslighting infrastructure to create (a mostly successful) buy-in from the masses. Capitalism depends on that, unlike any previous system. It has to create a climate where people think they’re involved with this crap by choice, instead of via a matrix of force and dire necessity. This also leads to our being pitted against each other, and seeing this as “natural” when it’s not. That gets us closer to accepting war too. The concept of the nation-state does some heavy lifting along those lines as well. But it’s mostly the global economic system.
My take on Ukraine, however, is that this is a specific event, with specific moral agents involved, and only one of them can say No. Putin had the power to just say No. We’re not going to invade. We’re going to hold good-faith talks with Zelensky and company and try to persuade him to stay out of NATO, if that’s our desire. Not via threats — which is all Putin has done for two decades — but through actual negotiations. In my view, this specific case is entirely on Putin. He didn’t have to invade. Nothing forced him to, except for his own lust to extend his already gargantuan nation-state.
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I agree with all the stuff on capitalism, as you know. I could go on about capitalism all day, all night, all the rest of my days. Probly not healthy, but the fury inside me is never going to ebb. I just have to distract myself a lot, with rams and planting native plants, and poetry and scones and whatever.
And yes, I understand the position you (and zn) have on Ukraine. Its a ‘specific’ distinct decision by Putin and ‘nothing forced him’ etc.
My view is completely different. My analogy (dueling analogies all over the internet on this) is…oh….a bear. In a cage. With a sign. “Dont poke the bear, it has nuclear weapons.” And Mr Nato Countries comes along and pokes the bear. Repeatedly. And the bear warns Mr Nato Countries repeatedly. And…more poking.
The bear than decides to erupt. Yes its a specific decision by the bear.
No, he doesnt ‘have’ to erupt. But do i only blame the bear? Nah, I blame both.
I might feel diff bout Ukraine if I thought the Big-Capitalist-Gangster
actually cared about the Ukrainians. But they dont. Anymore than they cared about the Iraqis or Nicaraguans or Chileans or…go down the list.
Its just pathological capitalist chess games. Resource wars.
I F’ing blame them all.
…i was at a private dinner the other day. A former BBC reporter was there. She teaches at Princeton now. We were disagreeing about some things and she said “Is there ‘any’ politician in history you respect?”
Only one i could think of was Allende. Tried to bring socialism in a peaceful way. And of course the freedom-loving-west killed him.
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wvParticipantYeah. I just didn’t think this team had It. But down the stretch, they started clicking..
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You could see them gelling, and straightening some things out,
and Von and OBJ were integrated — So, i thought they could beat anyone
they played in any single given game.
What i did NOT think was they could be consistent and bring their ‘A’ game
over a period of 3 playoff games and 1 super bowl.
And frankly, did they EVER really play their ‘A’ game for
4 whole quarters, all F’ing year? I dunno. I guess the Cardinal game
in the playoffs.
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wvParticipant======== Cant say I understand any of that, BT. w v
I guess it is a bit long-winded. Will try to boil it down. I’m seeing, especially since 2015/2016, an inordinate amount of energy spent (from some on the left) trying to “understand” Russia’s actions — and by extension, Trump’s. This can take the form of absolute denial that things we know happened ever happened. Or it may just be jumping through endless hoops trying to excuse it, or just saying none of it matters. This all too often lines up perfectly with GOP talking points, Fox News, and Putin’s propaganda, etc. etc. These same people do not spent one iota of time trying to “understand” the actions of people and entities on the other “side(s). I would get it if the same attempt to “understand” was evenly applied, or its opposite: condemnations of all sides without explanations. But I do not get the lopsided nature of the critique, nor do I get why Putin and Trump are the objects being defended in the first place. As mentioned, I would if “leftists” were fighting on behalf of the oppressed, the powerless, the earth, or their champions — as per leftist tradition. But Putin is a far-right dictator, and quite possibly the world’s richest man. Trump is a billionaire too. Both men are in direct opposition to every leftist stance on the books, and Trump and his party, especially, constantly demonize the entire left.
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Ok, but you are not talking about Ukraine, or Putin, you are talking about leftist youtubers you dont like. Dore, etc.
I cant respond to much of that because i rarely watch them anymore. So, I dont know what they are saying or who you are talking about besides Dore.
I can say this. I used to like Dore a lot. Then you started complaining he sounded like a trumpie. And I would respond he doesnt like trump, he’s a leftist in favor of M4A and all of Bernie’s policies.
But then i started noticing Dore NEVER says a word about the rightwingers. Its all aimed at the Dems. (and i used to be the same way)
And it slowly started gnawing at me: Why doesnt he ‘ever’ slam the Reps? I mean, maybe even just ONE show every six months or so. I’d be happy with ‘that’. But he never ever says a word about Trump/Reps.
He never says “the Dems AND Reps are the problem”. Its always Biden this and Clinton that, etc.
So that made me start wondering about him. All he’d have to do is every now and then include the Reps. I mean its a DUOPOLY. That means both parties are to blame.
So, because of that (because of you) I got off the Dore train. I dunno if he’s a Rep Op or being paid by the Reps or if he’s totally legit and just has a ‘thing’ about the Dems. A LOT of leftists obsess about the Dems and they say “well its just a GIVEN that I hate the Reps”. I hear that all the time on twitter. And i get it cause i used to SAY it all the time myself. And i was never a Rep Op.
But i changed. I decided it only takes a millisecond to write the “Dems AND the REPS” are monsters or whatever. So why doesnt Dore do that?
Now, I do NOT put Aaron Mate, Chris Hedges, Cornell West in the same category as Dore. I’m not sure about Glenn Greenwald. He’s a weird one. Matt Taibbi is on shitlist for reasons i cant even remember 🙂
Anyway, I rarely watch these folks anymore. I ‘never’ watch Dore.
I just know the various internet leftS are a complete mess, for all the reasons that have been around for over a century. The leftS are a complete clusterfuck. One of the gazillion reasons i am a complete, utter, doomer.
We still disagree on Ukraine. No big deal for me. We are leftists. We dont agree on shit.
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wvParticipantThe fear expansion of Euro-American hegemony, though. .
Which is only the case because they want their own expanded hegemony. ..
=== I could not disagree more. I see NATO as a terrorist organization seeking hegemony, in service of a capitalist system that has condemned all life on Earth to doom.
w vI agree with you about capitalism’s effects, and want it all gone — via non-violent, democratic change. No remnants. Replaced by an updated, future-proofed version out of Kropotkin and Morris, with a bit of James C. Scott thrown in for good measure. But I think your comment points to my earlier questions. Your condemnation of NATO is absolute and immediate, without any attempt to try to figure out its possible rationales, or any sequence of cause and effect through the decades. It just flat out condemns NATO. When it comes to Russia, however, or some other entity seen as in opposition to the West, ginormous energy is expended by some to “explain” their actions, present rationales, or even dismiss the idea that they’ve done what has been claimed. Again, I would understand this a lot more if the people and entities involved really were “oppositional” to capitalism and its effects. If they were champions of the planet and its people across the globe. But that’s not Russia, and that’s not Trump, obviously. If anything, they’re even more intensely on Team Exploitation/Waste/Pollution, and they share that white supremacy/anti-LGBTQ “base.”
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Cant say I understand any of that, BT.
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wvParticipantI like Mearsheimer’s talk from 2015, fwiw.
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“…the West is principally responsible for this mess…” At the 10:29 mark.
wvParticipantI agree with Chris Hedges.
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wvParticipantYou and BT blame Putin, and not Nato, for this invasion. I believe that is accurate, yes? w v
For the invasion of Ukraine? Speaking just for myself. That’s Putin. NATO wouldn’t even exist if Russia were capabl;e of accepting the collapse of the USSR empire, which was ill-gotten in the first place, and being stabile in the region. To me you sound like you’re saying well yes Putin is bad but then why did NATO dress that way if they weren’t trying to provoke him? No one on the left was saying that Hussein was equally to blame for getting Iraq invaded. And we all knew Hussein was a monster. A minor league one, but still.
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Yeah, we just disagree on all this, zn. Miles apart.
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wvParticipantSo it’s ironic that Russia would be opposed to that when they’re more of the same. NATO does not mean “western europe.” NATO is and only is a military alliance meant to contain soviet power in Europe. And then later, Putin power now that he’s the right-wing USSR.
The critique of western europe and north america (and China) combined in terms of world colonial, economic, and technological effect is of course something you can count on everyone here agreeing with.
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I dont think of it as ironic. The fact they are ‘more of the same’ doesnt mean they are ‘the same’. Al Capone and Machine Gun Kelly were ‘more of the same’ but they still would shoot each other for more territory.
I blame Nato and Putin for this capitalist atrocity.
You and BT blame Putin, and not Nato, for this invasion.
I believe that is accurate, yes?
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wvParticipantThey just made plays at key turning points. Plays that will actually be immortal as times go along. Like 4th and 1 on their own 30 in the final minutes down by 4 and they give it to Kupp on a jet sweep?
And Kupp is stopped dead to rights but he cuts like a premier RB and gets the yards.=======
Yeah, I have trouble even watching that Kupp play on the hi-lite vids.
He was dead. That play was blown up. It couldnt have worked.
That cut he made (or whatever it was) was not humanly possible.
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wvParticipantThe fear expansion of Euro-American hegemony, though. .
Which is only the case because they want their own expanded hegemony. ..
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I could not disagree more.
I see NATO as a terrorist organization seeking hegemony,
in service of a capitalist system
that has condemned all life on Earth to doom. 🙂
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wvParticipantSaw this. Usual weirdness in the media:
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A compilation of Western journalists and commentators saying the quiet part out loud. pic.twitter.com/CCK8wu6wxu
— redfish (@redfishstream) February 27, 2022
wvParticipantI did explain that stance though. As I see it, no one in their right mind believes that NATO is an aggressive force capable of using military might to acquire territory. NATO is not going to invade anyone. And that’s regardless what you think of NATO. Putin, on the other hand, sees NATO as threatening his own aggressive interests in re-acquiring the lost portions of the old USSR’s eastern European empire. Not that different from Serbia trying to grab what it could from the collapse of Yugoslavia. Russia is not threatened by NATO. Russian imperial expansion is threatened by NATO. I honestly believe that all stands to reason and in fact, to me, it seems like it is completely obvious. Anyway. What Putin “sees as a threat” is of no interest to me, except that it explains his pathologies as a right-wing dictator. To me, it’s like a domestic abuser who believes people calling him on his violence means they are aggressively threatening to harm an innocent person.
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I hear ya. I just disagree.
I think you are ignoring all the ways NATO/US ‘attacks’ nations,
other than all-out-war. Remember Kissinger’s statement about Chile: “We will make them scream” etc.
I doubt (but who knows) Putin was ever afraid of all out Nato ‘invasion’.
But I do think its not only ‘rational’ to fear a NATO attack but I think its terribly naive to think NATO is ‘not’ attacking Russia, in all the usual economic/dirty-trick ways that NATO is an expert at. Its got a long long history of that stuff. To me thats just as bloody murderous as an ‘invasion’.
So, yes, I blame the US Oligarchs as well as Putin and his oligarchs.
I blame Capitalism. The gangster-capitalist-states.
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wvParticipantI posted this in the tweets thread but it fits here too.
Ruan
Super Bowl LVI Champs@StaffordtoOBJ I saw my team win a Super Bowl before WW3 so I’m good======
I had my doubts I’d ever see it again.
I’ve been savoring vids of the 3 game stretch — Bucs, 49ers, Bengals.
I just cant imagine any other Super Bowl winner came ‘that’ close to
losing 3 times in a row. It was uncanny. Or somethin. If you watch those games, the tension ‘still’ lingers, they were so razor-close.
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wvParticipantFrom what I am piecing together (in between actually trying to get work done for my real-world job)? Putin believes in re-acquring the former Soviet empire. The longer he waits on the Ukraine, the deeper its ties to NATO. Now he can act like he believes NATO is a threat to him, but that’s obviously nonsense–NATO was never going to launch an aggressive war against Russia. But NATO solidarity and membership can limit Russian imperial ambitions in the region. This is not an exact analogy but a proximate one–Ukraine in a lot of ways is to Putin what the Sandinistas were to Reagon. His whole thing about Ukraine not really being a nation gives it away. He’s saying, you stole from us, we’re just taking it back. (Once again my ethnic history is that I am Ukrainian…my grandparents could barely speak English…and this idea that Ukraine has no authentic national history is ludicrous.) Anyway. It is beyond crazy that we have a situation in Europe where a massive global power actually launches a WW2 style invasion of a neighboring state. It happened with Serbia in relation to its neigboring states but that was of course on a smaller scale so isn’t the “wtf” level news that this is. It’s a similar dynamic, though–the break up of Yugoslavia led to aggressive military conflicts. This is the same thing, the break up of the USSR, but just on a bigger scale.
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Yeah, I’m just trying to figure out what all our differences/positions are on all this. The way you just laid your view out, NATO/US has zero culpability in the Russian Invasion, and you think its “nonsense” for Putin to think of NATO as a threat.
I think I disagree, because i think its perfectly rational for him to see NATO as a threat and I agree with Noam that no Russian leader would allow NATO to do what its been doing with regard to Ukraine.
Having said that, I’m not gonna spend the time to really get all ‘granular’ about Ukraine or Yemen or the fifty gazillion other chess pieces on the board now.
I dont have the time or emotional bandwidth anymore for that. (Plus, I no longer think its possible to know shit anymore, but thats another thread for another day) I did back in the Iraq War days, but I dont anymore, and I’m more interested in the big-picture now, blah blah.
One wonders what effect this will have on the US Pentagon/NSA/CIA/Weapons Manufacturing budget.
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