Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
July 28, 2016 at 9:24 am in reply to: Trump is toast. He just called for Russian cyberattacks against Clinton. #49536
wvParticipantAnd now Trump, at his presser, calls for foreign espionage.
—————
Well, without getting into a big thing about it — I dont even care about “foreign” “espionage”. I’m so utterly sick of all forms of ‘tribalism’ that i just cant work up any outrage at the notion of “foreign espionage”.
I just dont seem to have a ‘nationalist’ bone in my body anymore.
The US plays the espionage game all over the world. As you know.
The US interferes in other nations politics whenever and wherever it wants. As you know.Why should i get upset about the (shocking 🙂 ) notion that other nations
might do it here, or that a politician would make an off the cuff quasi-humorous remark about it. It reminds me of when Reagan said “we start the bombing in an hour” or words to that effect. Its just yacking.Anywayz…Am i supposed to be rooting for the American National Security State? Am i supposed root against those evil “foreign spies” ?
I’ll let the Nationalists worry about that.
For me there’s only two tribes now. And there’s always, only, been
two tribes. And you know what they are, comrad.w
v
wvParticipant=====================
CNN)Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump in four crucial swing states, according to a new poll out Friday, good news for the Clinton campaign that has seen other surveys show the presidential race tightening in recent weeks.
The NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Marist poll finds Clinton with high single-digit leads in Colorado, Florida, North Carolina and Virginia. Clinton maintains these leads, though at slightly smaller margins, when third-party candidates Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are included.Clinton leads Trump in Colorado 43% to 35%. Johnson performs best in this state — he garners 12% support when included in the poll, which shrinks Clinton and Trump’s support to 39% and 33%, respectively.
In Florida, Clinton also paces Trump, 44% to 37%. Clinton’s lead slips to 5 points with third party candidates factored in.
Clinton is ahead of Trump in North Carolina 44% to 38%, a state which President Barack Obama won for Democrats in 2008 for the first time since 1976. It reverted red in 2012, but polling has shown Clinton competitive there, drawing significant support from minority communities.
Finally, Clinton leads Trump comfortably in Virginia, 44% to 35%. Johnson performs well here too — Clinton leads Trump 41% to 34% when he’s included, and he draws 10%.
A Quinnipiac poll of other battleground states released earlier this week — Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Iowa — showed closer races, with Trump leading or tied with Clinton.
In Florida, Quinnipiac found Trump up 3 percentage points to Clinton, 42%-39%. Both surveys found about one in five voters in Florida are undecided or don’t support either Trump or Clinton.
The WSJ/NBC/Marist findings in Virginia and Colorado findings are in line with other recent polls in those states.
CNN Politics app
In the WSJ/NBC Marist surveys, both candidates are slowed by steadfastly high unfavorable ratings, with significant majorities in all four states saying they have negative views of Clinton and Trump. And in each state, more than one in 10 say they won’t vote for either, or prefer a third party candidate.The poll also suggests that Trump still faces difficulty unifying the Republican Party after the contentious primary campaign, as he gets no more than 79% of the Republican vote in all four swing states polled.
Additionally, the poll found that gender and educational divides continue to shape the 2016 race, with lower-educated male voters favoring Trump, and more highly educated female voters favoring Clinton.
The WSJ/NBC/Marist poll was conducted from July 5 through 10, and surveyed 871 registered voters in Florida; 907 in North Carolina; 876 in Virginia; and 794 in Colorado. The margin of error is plus or minus 3.3 points in Florida, North Carolina and Virginia, and 3.5 points for Colorado.
CNN’s Jennifer Agiesta contributed to this report.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/15/politics/swing-state-polls-hillary-clinton-leads-trump/
July 28, 2016 at 7:00 am in reply to: Trump is toast. He just called for Russian cyberattacks against Clinton. #49520
wvParticipantI disagree. A parent or grandparent does have skin in the game. For decades you make sacrifices and plans for your childrens benefit that go far beyond whatever a non-parent ever conceives.
————–
Well there are plenty of ‘parents’ who abuse and neglect their ‘skin in the game’.
And conversely there are plenty of non-parents who ‘love their neighbors’ and commit
there lives to doing social work and caring for other life forms, both human and animal, etc.So, personally, i dont buy the “parents” care more about the world
than nonparents. Its a mixed bag. Always has been.On the trump statement….I think Trump supporters will evaluate it as Trump being a bit humorous, shooting from the hip, just slamming Hillary, no big deal.
The pro-Hillary crowd will be all ‘outraged’…and the undecideds….will it matter to them?I dunno. My gut feeling is, George Will was right to point to the fact Americans dont elect ‘angry’ presidents. Now maybe things have changed in America, but it looks to me, like Hillary is the next President. We shall see.
Its all up the Undecideds-in-the-Swing-States. Noone else matters now.
w
v-
This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipant
wvParticipantYeah, i think that’s the zack neruda view, too.
What are the ‘swing states’ btw? Ohio, Florida….what else?
w
v-
This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantFrom blacks with Black Lives Matter to jews with scheming against Sanders based upon religion to hispanics derided via the Taco Bowl. The racism and thus hypocrisy of the left is alive and well entrenched as the highly placed emails at the DNC proves.
—————-
I suppose the DNC seems like ‘the left’ if you are a Trump/Buchannon guy.But to those of us to the left of the Dems, the DNC is not ‘the left’.
We consider the DNC part of “the right”.Also, if there’s one thing Ive learned over the years,
there’s no THE right, or THE left, or THE Muslims, or THE christians, or THE whatevers…
There’s all kinds of factions and splits and variations of all them big labels.
For example take Chrsitians — there’s the Ku Klux Klan christians, and then there’s the Quakers, and then there’s the appalachian snake handlers, and then there’s the liberation theology marxist christians of Guatamala, and then there’s the rightwing-fundamentalist-Baptists of Alabama…and then theres….. you get the point. Same with “the left”. Same with “the Right” i suppose. Though I am not up on all the rightwing divisions…w
v
wvParticipantWell its quite true i havent done much reading about him,
and i dont intend to,
but still…there’s the NAFTA type deals – to me, those are huge.
And Trump is against them. So, I keep coming back to that.
It puts Trump in an odd category to me.w
vWV,
Trump has said a lot of things, but he’s never called American corporations onto the carpet for their exploitation of those trade deals. He always couches them as if foreign nations are screwing us and American workers, and that those other nations are “winning” and we’re “losing.” China, more than anyone else. He’s never once mentioned the fact that corporate America pushed for those “free trade” agreements primarily so they could more easily chase cheaper and cheaper labor, ship jobs overseas — which Trump does with all of his manufacturing companies — and then sell the products back to Americans on the cheap. He always sets things up as if foreign nations, immigrants, refugees, undocumented workers are trying to take away American jobs. That’s classic scapegoating, and it’s primarily of black and brown people.
Again, not once has he mentioned American corporate culpability.
—————-
Yes, i know that, BT — but of the two, who is more pro-corporate: Hillary or Trump?w
v
wvParticipantWell, I dunno. Maybe i think Hillary is a bit worse than you do,
and maybe I think trump is not quite as bad as you think he is.I have no problem with people thinking bad things about Hillary.
But at the risk of it coming across wrong, my bet is the people on the left saying Trump isn’t that bad are the ones who have spent less time researching him.
If it honestly is in the end about policies, then, I genuinely believe knowing more about Trump would be a dark eye-opener.
Let;s put it this way. I would vote for either Bush over him.
….
——————-
Well its quite true i havent done much reading about him,
and i dont intend to,
but still…there’s the NAFTA type deals – to me, those are huge.
And Trump is against them. So, I keep coming back to that.
It puts Trump in an odd category to me.w
v
wvParticipantFeelings have often, if not mostly always, trumped facts
in elections.Talking-feeling-monkeys.
Anyway, J.Oliver should give equal time to Hillary’s flaws.
crooked-narcissist-egomaniac-pro-corporate-Billionaire-Donald.
vs
Crooked-Neoliberal-pro-Corporate-empire-builder-hawk-Hillary.Whats a talking-feeling monkey
to do?w
vThe talking monkeys can begin by making the Donald list more realistically reflect the actual problems.
How about adding racist hyper-nationalist sexist lying demagogue who will appoint an anti-choice supreme court while lowering taxes on the upper brackets in an already inequality-mired economy.
For starters.

=============
No argument from me.But then, the Hillary list could be longer too
w
vThe length of course is not as pertinent as what’s on it.
Yes Hillary represents the unenlightened coporatacratic status quo.
And..as paradoxical and ironic and dark humorish as it sounds, Trump represents a big regression from that. That will also still include that anyway.
So it;s like this.
A: We have 2 choices.
B: What’s the 1st choice.
A: Well we stay with the Roman empire and its hierarchical socio-economic system.
B: I see. What’s the 2nd choice.
A: The empire is overthrown and all its institutions destroyed by burnt earth hordes who practice human sacrifice and treat all outsiders as pagans to be tortured and slain.
B: Can I just join a monastery?
A: The hordes take particular delight in tormenting monasteries.
B: Hmm. Okay Let me think….===================
Well, I dunno. Maybe i think Hillary is a bit worse than you do,
and maybe I think trump is not quite as bad as you think he is.At any rate, i think the system that spawned both of them
seriously threatens all life on Earth.And now I shall eat linguini.
w
v
wvParticipantFeelings have often, if not mostly always, trumped facts
in elections.Talking-feeling-monkeys.
Anyway, J.Oliver should give equal time to Hillary’s flaws.
crooked-narcissist-egomaniac-pro-corporate-Billionaire-Donald.
vs
Crooked-Neoliberal-pro-Corporate-empire-builder-hawk-Hillary.Whats a talking-feeling monkey
to do?w
vThe talking monkeys can begin by making the Donald list more realistically reflect the actual problems.
How about adding racist hyper-nationalist sexist lying demagogue who will appoint an anti-choice supreme court while lowering taxes on the upper brackets in an already inequality-mired economy.
For starters.

=============
No argument from me.But then, the Hillary list could be longer too 🙂
w
v
wvParticipantFeelings have often, if not mostly always, trumped facts
in elections.Talking-feeling-monkeys.
Anyway, J.Oliver should give equal time to Hillary’s flaws.
crooked-narcissist-egomaniac-pro-corporate-Billionaire-Donald.
vs
Crooked-Neoliberal-pro-Corporate-empire-builder-hawk-Hillary.Whats a talking-feeling monkey
to do?w
v
wvParticipantWatched it today… By far the worst of the 3 movies..
———————
Um…WORSE than the others? Not possible.
w
v
wvParticipantWell, first, he’s a very unpleasant man,
second, he’s an idiot,
third, pot should be legal and a non-issue.w
v
wvParticipantReal simple here is the difference with Clinton you will have the right to an abortion on your way to a nuclear exchange with Russia with Trump the white guys get an assault rifle of their choice on the road to Armageddon. Other than that which buffoon is chosen really does not matter at all. Clinton is the superior criminal but is more predictable.You know she’s going to sell you out.Trump is unpredictable like giving a chimp an assault rifle.
————–
And yet millions and millions and millions of Americans love
either the chimp or the criminal — why is that?w
v
wvParticipantGodzilla will wipe the floor with King Kong.
Fer criminy sakes, GODzilla shoots electric-firey-stuff
out of his mouth. Kong otoh, throws rocks.No contest.
w
v
wvParticipantHappy Birthday W
w
v
wvParticipantThe rightwinger focuses on her Lies. The leftwing focuses on her truths.
w
vMy gawd that was profound. So profound that for a moment I thought I was reading one of Master Po’s insights that he used to instruct his young Grasshopper.
========================
If you plant rice, rice will grow. If you plant fear, fear will grow.
Kung Fu
————w
v
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”[Kung Fu Monkey — Ephemera, blog post, March 19, 2009]”
― John Rogers
wvParticipantProblem is, a lot of times its what they are telling the truth
about that is most disturbing. Like supporting NAFTA-type, neoliberal, hawkish
policies.The difference between a rightwing critic of Hillary and a leftwing critic
of hillary is this — The rightwinger focuses on her Lies. The leftwing focuses on her truths.w
v
wvParticipanthttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/23/lets-not-get-ahead-of-ourselves-people_n_6534968.html
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/
-
This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantWhat i’d like to know is,
if there is a Poll that has a really good record for accuracy
over the decades. Ya know.I’d like to know what ‘that’ poll shows.
w
v
wvParticipant
wvParticipantI take that back.
Trump is ignorant, but I retract the claim that he is proud of it. There is no evidence of that. There is evidence that he doesn’t care that he is ignorant, and that’s different. He is ignorant, and he doesn’t care enough to get informed. That is more accurate.
—————-
Well, i have not studied Trump. Like, at all. But my own limited unstudied sense is
he truly believes in what he is doing. I thought Bush did too. And Reagan. I mean, i do think all these weasels really believe their own words for the most part on the ECONOMIC stuff.Not on the religious stuff necessarily. I think most of em pretend to believe in the Christian god and the fairy-tale stuff, but Economics — i think they believe their own rhetoric. I think.
Agree? Disagree? Dont care? Warner? Bulger?
w
vNo, not quite. Well, sort of.
My wife has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I’ve read a lot about it because I have to deal with it daily.
Narcissists tend to believe whatever they are saying at any given moment. And they can say something completely contradictory later, and believe THAT, and deny that they ever said the first thing. It happens All The Time.
Trump does that. He contradicts shit he said a month ago, and believes himself passionately both times. So Trump believes everything he says, yes. But his belief is a momentary belief. A belief of the present. If that makes sense. He has no overarching set of principles. No guidelines. No actual philosophical foundation. He believes whatever he feels like believing at the moment. Trust me on this. My wife is a narcissist, and I deal with this every day of my life, for 25 years now. I recognize the symptoms.
—————-
Well that sounds about right. But i dunno.
Luckily we have the incorruptible US Congress,
and an informed public to reign him.w
v
wvParticipantI take that back.
Trump is ignorant, but I retract the claim that he is proud of it. There is no evidence of that. There is evidence that he doesn’t care that he is ignorant, and that’s different. He is ignorant, and he doesn’t care enough to get informed. That is more accurate.
—————-
Well, i have not studied Trump. Like, at all. But my own limited unstudied sense is
he truly believes in what he is doing. I thought Bush did too. And Reagan. I mean, i do think all these weasels really believe their own words for the most part on the ECONOMIC stuff.Not on the religious stuff necessarily. I think most of em pretend to believe in the Christian god and the fairy-tale stuff, but Economics — i think they believe their own rhetoric. I think.
Agree? Disagree? Dont care? Warner? Bulger?
w
v
wvParticipant… In that light I suspect he is a moderate-which of course will piss of the leftists. But as I age I’ve come to realize that for me labels mean little.
—————–
Well, myself, i find labels quite useful. I mean George Bush was a “Rightwinger”.
I think the label fits just fine. Bernie is a “new deal progressive” or a “democratic-socialist” etc. Reagan was a useful-idiot. Mike Martz was a paranoid wizard.
Lassie was a whiney sheepdog. ….see, perfectly useful labels.Seriously, i think labels are just fine, depending on context.
I mean if labels dont matter and are meaningless then Trump is the same as Hillary, right?
We cant use words to differentiate them?w
vYou got that mixed up.
Lassie was a collie.
Bush was the useful idiot.
Reagan was the whiney sheepdog.
————-
OK, but was Lassie a DNC Centrist
or a moderate republican ?w
v
wvParticipantI know you are trying BT. I see that. That post of mine was as much a reminder to myself as anything else.
I just hate rancorous, endless, get-nowhere, no-point-in-it, Bickering.
Lets say bnw goes “yawn” — well, why react at all? Why…react…at…all?
We react because of emotions. Thats all. Emotions. Yes? No?w
vWell, I thought I responded with humor after the “yawn,” suggesting that he get more sleep and maybe try Melatonin. And then after the third or fourth “yawn,” I upped the ante to Ambien.
I thought you liked humor.

Okay, okay. No reaction is better.
—————–
I didnt realize Obama wears a watch. I didnt know people
still wore watches.w
v
wvParticipant… In that light I suspect he is a moderate-which of course will piss of the leftists. But as I age I’ve come to realize that for me labels mean little.
—————–
Well, myself, i find labels quite useful. I mean George Bush was a “Rightwinger”.
I think the label fits just fine. Bernie is a “new deal progressive” or a “democratic-socialist” etc. Reagan was a useful-idiot. Mike Martz was a paranoid wizard.
Lassie was a whiney sheepdog. ….see, perfectly useful labels.Seriously, i think labels are just fine, depending on context.
I mean if labels dont matter and are meaningless then Trump is the same as Hillary, right?
We cant use words to differentiate them?w
v
wvParticipantWV,
I understand your take on this. The video, then, was a way of getting us to take stock of ourselves? At least indirectly?
Okay. That’s fine.
It may not seem this way to you, but I’ve always tried really hard not to start fights. I usually finish them and generally won’t back down when others start them. But I try my best not to take the first shot. As a flawed human being, like everyone else, I fail at this from time to time. But, overall, I think my record on that is pretty good in the real world and online as well. It’s a combination of the way I was brought up, my relatively small stature as a kid, and the evolution of my own personal philosophy over time. I eventually grew a lot, thank goddess, both physically and philosophically, but battling bullies has always stayed with me, to this day. I kinda follow Woodrow Call in this, though with a word substitution or two:
I hate the behavior of bullies. I won’t tolerate it.
So, anyway. Back to this particular board. It’s also been my thing that criticism of public figures should be okay. Criticism of political parties, economic systems, organized religions, etc. etc. What crosses the line, in my view, is when it turns personal. As long as we debate the relative merits of this or that public policy, government program, public figure or ideology, what have you, I think adults should be able to handle this without getting upset. If adults do get upset, it may be time to question the intensity of investment in things largely beyond our control.
It’s kinda like the old Warner/Bulger wars. I don’t get how someone could take criticism of either of them personally — as a direct slap in the face, or worse. It’s not them. It’s not their career’s being discussed, etc. etc.
Bottom line: I’ll do my best to avoid “bickering and ranting” here. That’s all I can do.
Hope all is well.
=========
I know you are trying BT. I see that. That post of mine was as much a reminder to myself as anything else.I just hate rancorous, endless, get-nowhere, no-point-in-it, Bickering.
Lets say bnw goes “yawn” — well, why react at all? Why…react…at…all?
We react because of emotions. Thats all. Emotions. Yes? No?w
v
wvParticipantYou have an easygoing, thoughtful manner that I’ve always admired. Because of that I think it’s easier for you to stay above the fray than it is for others.
I have been loving the discussions here of late. I’m glad Billy has come back and I enjoy bnw’s take on things although I seldom agree. But I do worry that, as the board grows and more voices are added that it could become increasingly difficult to keep the emotions in check as they have been up to now (for the most part).
——————-
Yeah, this place works because its small. If there were more rightwingers to balance out the leftwingers It would be a warzone, again. Even with Mods. I suspect.
As far as me being easy-going…Maybe, but i went batshit-crazy in the old wars.
But I’m a grizzled old man now, and I have no stomach for war anymore. Ya know.
Not unless its unavoidable.Plus, its just plain good ‘practice’ for ‘me’ to post with bnw. I often want to ‘react’ emotionally. But i take a breath allow myself an inner-primal-scream, and
then I move on. 🙂Its good practice. Seriously. The country is full of people that think like bnw, so
I am trying to practice getting along with people who think differently. Its not easy for me, or bnw, or any of us. We should try though, imho. We should try especially hard if we feel insulted. Thats when the practice actually matters.w
v
wvParticipantWV,
I don’t know who the narrator is, but it’s baffling how any sane person can “respect” Alex Jones, IMO. He’s easily one of the most despicable public figures on America’s right-wing fringe, a true know-nothing, knuckle-dragging, paranoid moron and bully.
He’s always on and on about “false flags” whenever there is a mass shooting. He called the one in Sandy Hook a “false flag” operation, and thinks the Oklahoma City bombings were orchestrated by the government. And these are always supposedly designed to take away everyone’s “gun rights,” which for Alex Jones, means the right to gun down fellow Americans if Alex Jones thinks they’re a part of a tyrannical government. The circular logic there being, it’s “tyrannical” for the government to want to put limits on weaponry, etc.
Needless to say, he’s a Truther, and executive produced the absurdist “loose change” video.
I have no idea if he truly believes the bat-shit crazy things he says, or he just does all of that to make money. Either way, he doesn’t deserve anyone’s “respect.”
==============
Yeah, i understand about the narrator, i had the same reaction.
And I almost always agree with the Turks, in general, and I think Alex
has things wrong as I’ve said before. (But the Alex Jones phenomenon is very interesting to me, as is the Trump phenomenon)But my primary gut takeaway from that vid was — no-one ever looks good when they are ranting, angry or doing the heated-bickering thing. It turns everyone off. I mean, I like the Turks and I just winced at all that hostility and venom.
Just my opinion, but for ‘me’ thats the exact reason i quit posting on the old Pol Board.
And…its why i dont read posts between you and bnw anymore. The animosity just turns me off. Not why i come here. Its separate from ‘who’s right’ or ‘who do i agree with’.
I want a board thats fun to read. The Pol board died because it was not fun.This is a very very very difficult thing we are trying here. A social experiment. Can we keep things informative, interesting, fun, quirky, insightful, surprising….while talking about science, humans, politics, religion…. Can that be done? Do we all have to ‘react’ to every post we disagree with?
w
v
wvParticipantwhat do you think of Hillary’s VP choice?
w
v -
This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by
-
AuthorPosts

