time to take the political compass poll again

Billy_T wrote:

Anyway, back to my point — which was NOT about what ‘label’ we arbitrarily chose — the point is, do you understand that we are NOT Democrats. And do you understand that there are such things as “leftists” (or whatever label u want to use) who cant stand Obama, Clinton, the Republicans and the rest of the “system” politicians. Do you get that? Not lecturing here, just asking if you get that?

WV, I think you’re asking too much from “conservatives,” who really aren’t conservatives anymore. They’re right-wing radicals. The current American iteration is well to the right of the Reagan conservative, and they keep moving to the right. They pretty much do this each time the Dems stake out more of their old territory — which is constant — and feel the need to always and forever be to their right. The Dems are now planted firmly on the center-right, own it, after it was vacated by Republicans. The Republicans have in turn purged their ranks of the old guard, the Eisenhower Republicans, etc. . . . even the McCain of 2000 version.

This new breed of faux-conservative has been brainwashed to unprecedented degrees for forty years, and pretty much everything is the End of the World!!! for them. The slightest move from the Federal government means the Apocalypse is nigh. Reagan played into this with his talk about Medicare meaning the total end of all freedom for Americans. And with Obama? A year before he took office, you had large numbers of Republicans thinking he was the anti-christ. That number is roughly 25% now. Majorities believed he was foreign-born, a Muslim, a secret agent sent to destroy America, a Marxist, socialist, bogeyman, etc. etc.

They were fed this nonsense 24/7 by hate radio, their churches, and their reps, and it’s never stopped. This is why they can never see Obama for what he is — a true conservative, an pre-Reagan Republican. They’ve been told for years and years that he was, quite literally, the devil, that he “palled around with terrorists,” that he’s a Muslim secret agent, blah blah blah.

So they’re just never going to see how lucky they were that he was elected. They got an actual conservative in office, who implemented actual conservative policies, most of them falling waaaaay short, which was to be expected. But who gets the blame? “The left.” Even though Obama implemented center-right government. They couldn’t have written a better script.

And while you’re obviously, self-evidently correct about the massive gulf between leftists and Obama, if you spend any time on “conservative” websites or websites with large participation by “conservatives,” it’s pretty much an article of faith among them that Obama is “far left,” as are the Dems in generally. They simply believe in the myths, legends and propaganda handed down to them from hate radio, the Birchers, the religiously wrong, the Randians and so on. Now, bnw may not be like his peers, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he differs from them on this issue. He thought it was absurd when I said Obama has governed as a conservative — which he has — and I don’t think he’ll ever understand that the Republican party is no longer conservative in the slightest. It’s a radical, far-right party now. The Dems are now the true conservatives in America.

—————–
Well, i dunno. I really dont know much about the Republicans anymore.
You might be right. Or left. I dunno. 🙂

At any rate, I like having bnw around. I like the idea of trying to converse,
trying to understand, trying to find common political ground once in a while,
and trying to find ‘human’ common ground where it…can be found.

I just aint into ‘arguing’ anymore. That’s just me. I’m too old now, for that 🙂
Really, just too old for it.

w
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Billy_T wrote:

Now, bnw may not be like his peers, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he differs from them on this issue. He thought it was absurd when I said Obama has governed as a conservative — which he has — and I don’t think he’ll ever understand that the Republican party is no longer conservative in the slightest. It’s a radical, far-right party now. The Dems are now the true conservatives in America.

Democrats are now the “true conservatives in America”? Interesting. So actively ignoring immigration law is conservative? Going around congress to get the ACA is conservative? The Iran Deal is conservative? Blaming the police is conservative? Appointing Sotomayor and Kagan to the US Supreme Court is conservative? So many others.

Billy_T wrote:

Democrats are now the “true conservatives in America”? Interesting. So actively ignoring immigration law is conservative? Going around congress to get the ACA is conservative? The Iran Deal is conservative? Blaming the police is conservative? Appointing Sotomayor and Kagan to the US Supreme Court is conservative? So many others.

What immigration laws have been ignored? Be specific, please. And the ACA was passed by a majority in both houses, after nearly two years of debate, negotiations, compromises and so on. It was done within Congress, not outside it, and it was done according to Congressional rules. I don’t like the bill. But saying it bypassed Congress is wildly false.

The Iran Deal is traditional American policy. America gave up absolutely nothing and gets to monitor Iran’s nuclear programs in return for that nothing. It gets to impose its will on Iran, force it to obey “or else,” for no other reason than it can.

And what on earth do you mean by “blaming the police? For what? When, where, etc. etc.? Again, please be specific.

As for Kagan and Sotomayer. They’re both moderates who would have been acceptable to the pre-Reagan GOP, easily. But, since the GOP is no longer “conservative” at all — being much further to the right than that — moderates are seen as “far left.” They aren’t. They’re both mainstream judges who uphold traditional American jurisprudence and generally take the side of the Establishment over everyone else.

In short, yes, the Dems are the true conservatives now. The GOP is well to the right of that.

You really take the cake. Your lack of sincerity and my wasting my time addressing it sure makes me the fool. Have you been living under a rock since Obama was elected?

So many articles to choose and this makes it clear in the first few paragraphs.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/01/29/presidential-power-vs-congressional-inertia/presidents-cannot-ignore-laws-as-written

Presidents Cannot Ignore Laws as Written

Elizabeth Price Foley

Elizabeth Price Foley is a professor of constitutional law at Florida International University College of Law. She is the author of “The Tea Party: Three Principles.”

JANUARY 29, 2014

As every grade-schooler knows, Congress has sole authority to make laws. The president has a corresponding duty to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed.” When one branch of government exceeds its authority, separation of powers is violated, and representative government breaks down.

Presidents have power to fill gaps or ambiguities in laws passed by Congress. They do not, however, have power to ignore laws as written. For example, when President Obama unilaterally raised the minimum wage for federal contractors’ employees, he directly contravened the Fair Labor Standards Act, which says that “every employer shall pay to each of his employees” a minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.

Executive orders can erode the separation of powers, breed disrespect for the rule of law and increase political polarization.
President Obama has shown a penchant for ignoring the plain language of our laws. He unilaterally rewrote the employer mandate and several other provisions of the Affordable Care Act, failing to faithfully execute a law which declares, unambiguously, that these provisions “shall” apply beginning Jan. 1, 2014. Similarly, in suspending deportation for a class of young people who entered this country illegally, the president defied the Immigration and Nationality Act, which states that any alien who is “inadmissible at the time of entry” into the country “shall” be removed.

Billy_T wrote:

You really take the cake. Your lack of sincerity and my wasting my time addressing it sure makes me the fool. Have you been living under a rock since Obama was elected?

You’re making it personal, bnw. I’m absolutely sincere in what I’ve written.

No you’re not. You’re playing rope the dope and I’m the dope.

No you’re not. You’re playing rope the dope and I’m the dope.

bnw,

Believe what you want. But, yes, I’m being 100% sincere in my remarks on this issue. I’ve been saying this about the Dems for a long time. To me, it’s self-evidently the case. The Dems now inhabit the conservative realm Republicans have vacated. The Dems have been a center-right party for decades, and because the GOP has purged all of its liberals, moderates and almost all of its actual conservatives, it can no longer accurately claim that ground. It (the GOP) is now the radical right, and is well to the right of “conservative.” In my opinion, which is more than sincere, the GOP can no longer accurately claim that word as its own.

Frankly, I don’t know why anyone would want to. But that’s a different story.

I guess I’ve become more conservative in my old age.

If it doesn’t show, I’m +2 on the y axis and 0 on the x axis.
Close to dead center.

I am just useless with posting images. -5.25; -6.46. Those coordinates are supposed to be some of the best ones out there. Really high-end.

NewMexicoRam wrote:

If it doesn’t show, I’m +2 on the y axis and 0 on the x axis.
Close to dead center.

Damn–that’s almost a bullseye!

Do you play darts? You should.

zn wrote:

Eternal Ramnation wrote:

Well that didn’t go well I’m 9 lines Left of center and seven South.

Fixed it.

…

Thank you zn !

zn wrote:

I know those are just estimates, and that the political figures cited didn’t actually take the test . . . But Sanders and Stein seem off to me.

I base that on several factors. But, perhaps the biggest tell: I’ve frequented another political forum for years. Most of its regulars are “liberals,” and I’ve been jousting with them — and with conservatives there — for awhile. Not long ago I managed to persuade about a dozen to take the political compass test. The basic range for liberals there was/is in the minus 4s and 5s, up into the minus 6s. In recent weeks, many of same posters who scored as high as the minus 6 range have come down fairly hard against Sanders, and for Clinton, and mostly because they see Sanders as “extreme” — and complain endlessly about his supporters, too. They see Stein as even more “extreme.” A few of them see me as far more extreme than either of them, of course.

;>)

Anyway . . . to make a long story short. If mainstream liberals chart roughly halfway over and halfway down (within the left-bottom quadrant), then I think it’s fair to assume Sanders and Stein would score at least as well, if not better — with Stein further left and further down than Sanders. Sanders, while advocating for Social Democratic or FDR-New-dealish policies, does identify as “democratic socialist.” I’d say Stein is a bit to his left. But that’s really a guess.

No way to know for sure, until they actually take the test, which is doubtful — and we’d never know about it anyway. But I don’t think that’s a good charting for them.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Billy_T.