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wvParticipantI must say I am surprised Bernie has done so well.
I just assumed he would get the usual ‘green party 3 percent’.
Ya know. The Nader three percent. That sort of thing.
But to see him actually winning in places like Colorado and Minnesota —
that is just unreal to me. Yes, Clinton is going to win,
and it will be the Billionaire-right-winger vs the Corporate-Puppet,
but ‘something’ has changed in this country and not just on the Right.There is simply no way, i would have predicted a socialist like Bernie
(i dont wanna quibble about what he is) would actually outright WIN
a number of states in Amerika.A little hope in the Dark. Not a lot, but
still…a little. Perhaps, possibly, maybe…there
is hope for the Human species. Maybe, if they
dont completely destroy themselves in a thousand years….I smile, and sigh,
and salute the Bern.…now back to the destruction of the biosphere,
and all that is good and holy by the Usual suspects…Oh, and fuck the South.
w
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wvParticipantI’m glad. Harkey was awesome in the trenches
two years ago. He was invisible last year,
but i would guess he had nagging injuries.w
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wvParticipantAll true.
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wvParticipantThere goes the season.
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wvParticipant
wvParticipant“…Rams decided to move back to Los Angeles before the 2014 season, according to team executive Kevin Demoff…”
Well, doesn’t that mean Demoff lied
to the St.Louis fans for quite a while?I mean, i get his corporate-mentality: He’s just following orders,
and all.Still, aint that just flat-out lying
what he was doing back in 2014,
when he was asked about all this?w
vMarch 13, 2016 at 9:30 am in reply to: Man Who Assaulted Black Woman At Trump Rally Learns It Ruined His Life #40532
wvParticipantChun: Would you expect that Hillary Clinton’s foreign policy would be different from President Obama’s?
Chomsky: Judging by the record, she is kind of hawkish—much more militant than the centrist democrats, including Obama. Take for instance Libya: she was the one pressing the hardest for bombing, and look at what happened. They not only destroyed the country, but Libya has become the center for jihad all over Africa and the Middle East. It’s a total disaster in every respect, but it does not matter. Look at the so-called global war on terror. It started in 15 years ago with a small cell in a tribal sector in Afghanistan. Now it is all over, and you can understand why. It’s about comparative advantage of force.
Chun: How about Bernie Sanders–what do you think his foreign policy will be?
Chomsky: He is doing a lot better than I expected, but he doesn’t have much to say about foreign policy. He is a kind of New Deal Democrat and focuses primarily on domestic issues.
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Chun: Do you think that the Iran nuclear deal is a good thing?
Chomsky: I don’t think that any deal was needed: Iran was not a threat. Even if Iran were a threat, there was a very easy way to handle it–by establishing a Middle East Nuclear Weapons Free Zone, which is something that nearly everyone in the world wants. Iran has been calling for it for years, and the Arab countries support it. Everyone except the United States and Israel support it. The U.S. won’t allow it because it means inspecting Israel’s nuclear weapons. The U.S. has continued to block it, and in fact blocked it again just a couple of days ago; it just wasn’t widely reported. Iran’s nuclear program, as U.S. intelligence points out, is deterrent, and the bottom line is that the U.S. and Israel don’t want Iran to have a deterrent. In any case, it is better to have some deal than no deal, but it’s interesting that Obama picked the day of implementing of Iran deal to impose new sanctions on North Korea.
wvParticipantYeah, Voltaire was like Oscar Wilde, in that
prettymuch everything that came out of his mouth
was witty or profound or ornery, or somethin.w
v“Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers.” ― Voltaire
“Life is a shipwreck but we must remember to sing in the lifeboats” ― Voltaire
“…our creation myths and eschatologies, our imaginings of ultimate beginnings and ends can also help us discover our deepest fears and desires. But sophisticated scientific theology should never be mistaken for ultimate truth. What Voltaire said centuries ago still holds and will always hold: “It is truly extravagant to define, God, angels, and minds, and to know precisely how God defined the world, when we do not know why we move our arms at will. Doubt is not a very agreeable state, but certainty is a ridiculous one.” J. Horgan
wvParticipant“….The Rams are unlikely to put all 92,000 seats up for sale for every game; they will most likely sell about 70,000 tickets on a regular basis, although there might be demand to sell thousands more for special dates like season openers….”
Why dont they want to sell as many tickets as they can?
w
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wvParticipantwv-mom, (a rightwing fundamentalist christian) said to me,
today, “Why do those trouble-makers have to interfere with Trumps
speeches. You know, they made him post-pone his speech in Chicago.”And that’s how reality is playing
in the minds of rightwingers.Trouble-makers vs The Donald
Sigh
w
vMarch 12, 2016 at 6:19 pm in reply to: Rams called on some fancy-dancin in their contract language #40507
wvParticipantWeaselly. I mean, Demoffy.
And downright Kronky.
w
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wvParticipantYeah, I imagine Trump would be real annoying
and cause a lot of Racial unrest, and he bluster about
this and that and he’d be a pompous assThat’s not the issue. It’s nowhere near that shallow. We’re talking something far worse than that here.
I am not sure why you’re not seeing it. Read around on Trump. He’s not just this dismissable noise-maker with some annoying soundbites. He is genuine trouble in a way we have not seen for a few decades.
Here’s some examples:
in his 2011 book “Time to Get Tough,” he talked about cutting taxes, including eliminating corporate taxes altogether.
Trump used to be pro-choice but said last month that he was “pro-life with exceptions” for rape, incest and the health of the mother.
Trump has called global warming “bulls–t.”
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Well, ok, I havent looked at his quotes on all the issues,
but I’ll scroll thru this and get back to ya..
http://www.ontheissues.org/donald_trump.htm#Welfare_+_Poverty…ok, i scrolled thru his quotes on many issues…and….damn. Other than on healthcare, he does seem to be the Devil incarnate. I was hoping for more of a mixed-bag. A maverick. A Ross Perot type. Ah well.
Ok, so, its Bernie or Stein. I’d sooner swim with Great White Sharks, while spear fishing, than vote for Clinton, though. She’s no reformer. She’s just a system-politician.
w
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This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantYes to all that.
i think Trump might destroy the Rep
Party, which would be good in the long-termThat’s what I am praying for. Though my prayer includes the wish that it happens at the convention in July, rather than in the White House.
What’s happening with Bernie, has given me a bit of Hope,
I must say. Hope in the Dark.But, in a weird-surreal, batshit-crazy-way,
Trump’s numbers have also given me hope. They tell me
the impossible may be happening. The Repugnant-Party
may be cracking. Some strange populist ideas may
be creeping in. As for Trump ‘himself’ i dunno
what he really is. I dont really care. I’m waaay
more interested in his coalition of the absurd.
Can they threaten the corporate-powers-that-be?
Zn seems to think Trump-power would be ‘worse’
than the Usual-corporate-Reps. I dunno about that.w
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wvParticipantAnd that ‘single issue’ is about as
big as they get.Yes, but (and I hear YOU too)…so is racism…as single issues go.
Count on it. Trump courts, relies on, fosters, and depends on a racist vote. This goes back to his first days as a public figure in NY, when he first began jumping into political issues.
He’s going to make GW2 look like an apostle of reason in comparison.
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Yeah, I imagine Trump would be real annoying
and cause a lot of Racial unrest, and he bluster about
this and that and he’d be a pompous ass.But i think National Health care trumps
that issue.I think I’d rather have bat-shit crazy egomaniac,
coupled with National Health Care,
than four or eight years of
Corporate-Clinton.Besides, i think Trump might destroy the Rep
Party, which would be good in the long-term
and I think Trump would be a catalyst
for all kinds of resistance.Then again, Trump might blow up
the world.…its a risk, I’ll grant that 🙂
w
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wvParticipant
wvParticipantTrump, the Republican, wants to help the poor get
adequate health-care. Clinton, the Democrat,
does not.Trump also wants to maintain a racially charged world, fear monger about islam, and generally incite what’s worse about the USA. Plus, imagine what kind of assholes he appoints in his cabinet and the judiciary.
I personally am not a 1 issue type. His stray mouthings in favor of single-payer do not even begin to balance what is bad about him.
I live in a state where idealists and purists accidentally elected one of the worst republican governors in the country because they went all 3rd party.
Trump would be worse than LePage, and Lepage is an intolerable embarrassment.
Electing Trump would be a huge mistake. Anyone here voting for him would start expressing regrets about it almost the minute he took office and started implementing policies.
For those who say he can’t go too far because of restraints on him? Think back to the worst moments of the GW2 administration. That’s not how it works.
You want another name for right-wing populism? Fascism.
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I hear ya, but i dont know that i agree.
I have no idea what Trump would be like
on those other issues. He aint George Bush.
Trump is somethin different. I dunno what.And that ‘single issue’ is about as
big as they get.w
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wvParticipantYeah, its an oldy but goody.
As long as the mega-corporation is allowed to exist,
capitalism will always grow deadlier and deadlier
until it finally threatens the entire biosphere. Thats my view.That happens because of numerous factors, but mainly Three — one being that the bigger corpse will begin eating the smaller ones, and that leads to a handful of corpse creating monopolies. Think of Sheetz, Walmart, etc.
The Second major factor is simply the law of corporations, ie, ‘profit over people.’ Pollution, toxic waste, destruction of democracy are all just ‘part of doing business’ to the Corpse.
The third factor is the situation whereby the growing Corporate landscape makes it impossible to earn a living unless you work for one of the Corpse — thus the average ‘citizen’ cant oppose them cause he depends on them to Eat and feed the family.
Them there three factors create the corpse-o-tocracy we iz living and dying in. The Corpse-o-tocracy’s history is like the history of a baby Tiger. It grows and grows and pretty soon you have a full grown tiger by the tail. You cant let go, but you will be eaten if you do let go…
Below is a collection of quotes
I’ve gathered over the years
on Corporate Capitalism.
Its a sub-section
from my collection of general Political quotes.No reason anyone in the world
should read them. Just a hobby
of mine. Quote collecting.“Make your own Bible. Select and collect all the words and sentences that
in all your readings have been to you like the blast of a trumpet.”
— Ralph Waldo Emersonw
vCORPORATE-CAPITALISM
“The basic law of capitalism is you or I, not both you and I.” Karl Liebknecht
“Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power. Benito Mussolini
“The strongest bulwark of the capitalist system is the ignorance of its victims.” Adolph Fischer
“Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.” Bertrand Russell
“Private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information. It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.” Albert Einstein
“People who dismiss the unemployed and dependent as ‘parasites’ fail to understand economics and parasitism. A successful parasite is one that is not recognized by its host, one that can make its host work for it without appearing as a burden. Such is the ruling class in a capitalist society.” ― Jason Read
“The essence of capitalism is to turn nature into commodities and commodities into capital. The live green earth is transformed into dead gold bricks, with luxury items for the few and toxic slag heaps for the many. The glittering mansion overlooks a vast sprawl of shanty towns, wherein a desperate, demoralized humanity is kept in line with drugs, television, and armed force.” ― Michael Parenti, Against Empire
“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone. John Maynard Keynes
Militarism. . . is the chief bulwark of capitalism. When it is that militarism is undermined, capitalism will fail. Helen Keller
“Capitalism’s grow-or-die imperative stands radically at odds with ecology’s imperative of interdependence and limit. The two imperatives can no longer coexist with each other; nor can any society founded on the myth that they can be reconciled hope to survive. Either we will establish an ecological society or society will go under for everyone, irrespective of his or her status [“On the Future of the Left,” Motherboard, February 4, 2015].” ― Ursula K. Le Guin“We give more economic aid to multinational corporations to increase their profits than we do to all the countries in the world combined.”
― Michael Hogan, Savage Capitalism and the Myth of Democracy: Latin America in the Third Millennium“American corporate capitalism is a murder-suicide mission.”
― Bryant McGill, Simple Reminders: Inspiration for Living Your Best Life“The air, soil and water cumulatively degrade; the climates and oceans destabilize; species become extinct at a spasm rate across continents; pollution cycles and volumes increase to endanger life-systems at all levels in cascade effects; a rising half of the world is destitute as inequality multiplies; the global food system produces more and more disabling and contaminated junk food without nutritional value; non-contagious diseases multiply to the world’s biggest killer with only symptom cures; the vocational future of the next generation collapses across the world while their bank debts rise; the global financial system has ceased to function for productive investment in life-goods; collective-interest agencies of governments and unions are stripped while for-profit state subsidies multiply; police state laws and methods advance while belligerent wars for corporate resources increase; the media are corporate ad vehicles and the academy is increasingly reduced to corporate functions; public sectors and services are non-stop defunded and privatized as tax evasion and transnational corporate funding and service by governments rise at the same time at every level.”
― John McMurtry The Cancer Stage of Capitalism: From Crisis to Care, 2nd Edition“…as long as capitalism prevails, they cannot be reversed. They encompass: (1) increased concentration of economic power; (2) increased polarization between rich and poor, both within and across national boundaries; (3) a permanent readiness for military engagement in support of these drives; and (4) of special concern to us here, the uninterrupted debasement or depletion of vital natural resources. Victor Wallis
Capitalism is a thug’s economy, a heartless economy, a base and vile and largely boring economy. It is the antithesis of human fulfillment and development. It mocks equity and justice. It enshrines greed… Capitalism sucks. Does anyone seriously want to contest that? Michael Albert
This crippling of individuals I consider the worst evil of capitalism. Our whole educational system suffers from this evil. An exaggerated competitive attitude is inculcated into the student, who is trained to worship acquisitive success as a preparation for his future. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. Albert Einstein
To the fervent proponents of ruthless corporate capitalism I say: make a millionaire CEO live as a poor sweatshop worker in Indonesia for one month and then ask him about the merits of the world economic system… Vassilis Epaminondou:
The structure of the capitalist enterprise is based upon the exploitation of man by man, so whether this ruler is called ‘peronista’ or called Christian or whatever else, to the extent that he oppresses me I have the duty to fight, not against him but for my liberation. I have to take away that foot that he puts upon me, not for hatred to him, but for love to him for it harms him to oppress me and it harms me to be oppressed by him. Padre Carlos Mujica
There have been serious debates over the years about whether capitalism is compatible with democracy. If we keep to really existing capitalist democracy – RECD for short – the question is effectively answered: They are radically incompatible. It seems to me unlikely that civilization can survive RECD and the sharply attenuated democracy that goes along with it. But could functioning democracy make a difference? Noam ChomskyDemocracy and capitalism have very different beliefs about the proper distribution of power. One believes in a completely equal distribution of political power, one man, one vote, while the other believes that it is the duty of the economically fit to drive the unfit out of business and into economic extinction. Survival of the fittest and inequalities in purchasing power is what capitalist efficiency is all about. Individuals and firms become efficient to be rich. To put it in its starkest form, capitalism is perfectly compatible with slavery. The American South had such a system for more than two centuries. Democracy is not comparable with slavery. Lester Thurow
In his book The Selfish Capitalist, Oliver James has convincingly posited a correlation between rising rates of mental distress and the neoliberal mode of capitalism practiced in countries like Britain, the USA and Australia. In line with James’s claims, I want to argue that it is necessary to reframe the growing problem of stress (and distress) in capitalist societies. Instead of treating it as incumbent on individuals to resolve their own psychological distress, instead, that is, of accepting the vast privatization of stress that has taken place over the last thirty years, we need to ask: how has it become acceptable that so many people, and especially so many young people, are ill?”
― Mark Fisher, Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative?“t is a mistake to rush to impose the individual ethical responsibility that the corporate structure deflects. This is the temptation of the ethical which, as Zizek has argued, the capitalist system is using in order to protect itself in the wake of the credit crisis – the blame will be put on supposedly pathological individuals, those’ abusing the system’, rather than on the system itself. But the evasion is actually a two step procedure – since structure will often be invoked (either implicitly or openly) precisely at the point when there is the possibility of individuals who belong to the corporate structure being punished. At this point, suddenly, the causes of abuse or atrocity are so systemic, so diffuse, that no individual can be held responsible… But this impasse – it is only individuals that can be held ethically responsible for actions, and yet the cause of these abuses and errors is corporate, systemic – is not only a dissimulation: it precisely indicates what is lacking in capitalism. What agencies are capable of regulating and controlling impersonal structures? How is it possible to chastise a corporate structure? Yes, corporations can legally be treated as individuals – but the problem is that corporations, whilst certainly entities, are not like individual humans, and any analogy between punishing corporations and punishing individuals will therefore necessarily be poor. And it is not as if corporations are the deep-level agents behind everything; they are themselves constrained by/expressions of the ultimate cause-that-is-not-asubject: Capital.” ― Mark Fisher, Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative?
“The ideological blackmail that has been in place since the original Live Aid concerts in 1985 has insisted that ‘caring individuals’ could end famine directly, without the need for any kind of political solution or systemic reorganization. It is necessary to act straight away, we were told; politics has to be suspended in the name of ethical immediacy. Bono’s Product Red brand wanted to dispense even with the philanthropic intermediary. ‘Philanthropy is like hippy music, holding hands’, Bono proclaimed. ‘Red is more like punk rock, hip hop, this should feel like hard commerce’. The point was not to offer an alternative to capitalism – on the contrary, Product Red’s ‘punk rock’ or ‘hip hop’ character consisted in its ‘realistic’ acceptance that capitalism is the only game in town. No, the aim was only to ensure that some of the proceeds of particular transactions went to good causes. The fantasy being that western consumerism, far from being intrinsically implicated in systemic global inequalities, could itself solve them. All we have to do is buy the right products.” ― Mark Fisher, Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative?
If democracy and self-rule are the fundamentals, then why should people give up these rights when they enter their workplace? In politics we fight like tigers for freedom, for the right to elect our leaders, for freedom of movement, choice of residence, choice of what work to pursue – control of our lives, in short. And then we wake up in the morning and go to work, and all those rights disappear. We no longer insist on them. And so for most of the day we return to feudalism. That is what capitalism is – a version of feudalism in which capital replaces land, and business leaders replace kings. But the hierarchy remains. And so we still hand over our lives’ labor, under duress, to feed rulers who do no real work….
‘So. We must challenge. It is time. If self-rule is a fundamental value, if simple justice is a value, then they are values everywhere, including in the workplace where we spend so much of our lives’… Kim Stanley Robinson
Evo Morales, President of Bolivia, has captured the essence of the situation in his comments about changing from capitalism to a system that promotes “living well” instead of “living better.” As he put it at the Copenhagen Climate Conference in December 2009: “Living better is to exploit human beings. It’s plundering natural resources. It’s egoism and individualism. Therefore, in those promises of capitalism, there is no solidarity or complementarity. There’s no reciprocity. So that’s why we’re trying to think about other ways of living lives and living well, not living better. Living better is always at someone else’s expense. Living better is at the expense of destroying the environment.
According to Benjamin Barber: “The struggle for the soul of capitalism is…a struggle between the nation’s economic body and its civic soul: a struggle to put capitalism in its proper place, where it serves our nature and needs rather than manipulating and fabricating whims and wants. Saving capitalism means bringing it into harmony with spirit—with prudence, pluralism and those ‘things of the public’…that define our civic souls. A revolution of the spirit.”45 William Greider has written a book titled The Soul of Capitalism: Opening Paths to a Moral Economy. And there are books that tout the potential of “green capitalism” and the “natural capitalism” of Paul Hawken, Amory Lovins, and L. Hunter Lovins. Here, we are told that we can get rich, continue growing the economy, and increase consumption without end—and save the planet, all at the same time! How good can it get? There is a slight problem—a system that has only one goal, the maximization of profits, has no soul, can never have a soul, can never be green, and, by its very nature, it must manipulate and fabricate whims and wants. Fred Magdoff and John Bellamy Foster“Every reasonable human being should be a moderate Socialist.” Thomas Mann
Wherever capitalism appears, in pursuit of its mission of exploitation, there, will Socialism, fertilized by misery, watered by tears, and vitalized by agitation, be also found, unfurling its class-struggle banner and proclaiming its mission of emancipation………. I am opposing a social order in which it is possible for one man who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched existence. … As a rule, large capitalists are Republicans and small capitalists are Democrats, but workingmen must remember that they are all capitalists, and that the many small ones, like the fewer large ones, are all politically supporting their class interests, and this is always and everywhere the capitalist class. … Ignorance alone stands in the way of socialist success. The capitalist parties understand this and use their resources to prevent the workers from seeing the light.
Intellectual darkness is essential to industrial slavery. Eugene Debbs“…Capital is in itself a constant aggression. It is an aggression that tells us every day “you have to shape what you do in a certain way, the only activity that has validity in this society is activity that contributes to the expansion of capitalist profit.” The aggression that is capital has a dynamic. In order to survive, capital has to subordinate our activity more intensely to the logic of profit each day: “today you have to work harder than yesterday, today you have to bow lower than yesterday.” John Holloway
“..One of the biggest difficulties, politically speaking, is to get people to see the nature of the system in which they live. The system is very sophisticated in disguising what it does, and how it does it. One of the tasks of Marxists and critical theorists is to try to demystify, but you can see this happening intuitively sometimes. Take the indignados movement: something happens in Spain and then, next thing, suddenly it happens in Greece — and then suddenly it happens elsewhere. Take the Occupy movement: suddenly there are occupations going on all over the place. So there is connectivity here. A specific event like Baltimore doesn’t do anything in itself. What it does do, when you add it to Ferguson and you add it to some of the other things that are going on, is to show that large populations have been treated as disposable human beings. This is going on in the United States as well as elsewhere. Then, people suddenly start to see this is a systemic issue. So one of the things we should be doing is to emphasize the systemic nature of these type of events, showing that the problem lies within the system. David HarveyThe notion that man must dominate nature emerges directly from the domination of man by man… But it was not until organic community relation … dissolved into market relationships that the planet itself was reduced to a resource for exploitation. This centuries-long tendency finds its most exacerbating development in modern capitalism. Owing to its inherently competitive nature, bourgeois society not only pits humans against each other, it also pits the mass of humanity against the natural world. Just as men are converted into commodities, so every aspect of nature is converted into a commodity, a resource to be manufactured and merchandised wantonly. … The plundering of the human spirit by the market place is paralleled by the plundering of the earth by capital.”
― Murray Bookchin“To speak of ‘limits to growth’ under a capitalistic market economy is as meaningless as to speak of limits of warfare under a warrior society. The moral pieties, that are voiced today by many well-meaning environmentalists, are as naive as the moral pieties of multinationals are manipulative. Capitalism can no more be ‘persuaded’ to limit growth than a human being can be ‘persuaded’ to stop breathing. Attempts to ‘green’ capitalism, to make it ‘ecological’, are doomed by the very nature of the system as a system of endless growth.”
― Murray Bookchin“Unless we realize that the present market society, structured around the brutally competitive imperative of “grow or die,” is a thoroughly impersonal, self-operating mechanism, we will falsely tend to blame technology as such or population growth as such for environmental problems. We will ignore their root causes, such as trade for profit, industrial expansion, and the identification of “progress” with corporate self-interest. In short, we will tend to focus on the symptoms of a grim social pathology rather than on the pathology itself, and our efforts will be directed toward limited goals whose attainment is more cosmetic than curative.”
― Murray Bookchin“Any attempt to solve the ecological crisis within a bourgeois framework must be dismissed as chimerical. Capitalism is inherently anti-ecological. Competition and accumulation constitute its very law of life, a law … summarised in the phrase, ‘production for the sake of production.’ Anything, however hallowed or rare, ‘has its price’ and is fair game for the marketplace. In a society of this kind, nature is necessarily treated as a mere resource to be plundered and exploited. The destruction of the natural world, far being the result of mere hubristic blunders, follows inexorably from the very logic of capitalist production.”
― Murray Bookchin“our economic system and our planetary system are now at war. Or, more accurately, our economy is at war with many forms of life on earth, including human life. What the climate needs to avoid collapse is a contraction in humanity’s use of resources; what our economic model demands to avoid collapse is unfettered expansion. Only one of these sets of rules can be changed, and it’s not the laws of nature.”
― Naomi Klein This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate
“Authoritarian Communism is, and should be, forever tainted by those real-world laboratories. But what of the contemporary crusade to liberate world markets? The coups, wars and slaughters to instill and maintain pro-corporate regimes have never been treated as capitalist crimes but have instead been written off as the excess of overzealous dictators, as hot fronts in the Cold War, and now of the War on Terror. If the most committed opponents of the corporatist economic model are systematically eliminated, whether in Argentina in the seventies or in Iraq today, that suppression is explained as part of the dirty fight against Communism or terrorism – almost never as the fight for the advancement of pure capitalism.”
― Naomi Klein, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism
“All over the world, such struggles in the interstices of capitalist society are now taking place, and are too numerous and too complex to be dealt with fully here. Indigenous peoples today, given a new basis as a result of the ongoing revolutionary struggle in Bolivia, are reinforcing a new ethic of responsibility to the earth. La Vía Campesina, a global peasant-farmer organization, is promoting new forms of ecological agriculture, as is Brazil’s MST (Movimento dos Trabalhadores Rurais Sem Terra), as are Cuba and Venezuela. Recently, Venezulean President Hugo Chávez stressed the social and environmental reasons to work to get rid of the oil-rentier model in Venezuela, a major oil exporter.55 The climate justice movement is demanding egalitarian and anti-capitalist solutions to the climate crisis. Everywhere radical, essentially anti-capitalist, strategies are emerging, based on other ethics and forms of organization, rather than the profit motive: ecovillages; the new urban environment promoted in Curitiba in Brazil and elsewhere; experiments in permaculture, and community-supported agriculture, farming and industrial cooperatives in Venezuela, etc. The World Social Forum has given voice to many of these aspirations. As leading U.S. environmentalist James Gustave Speth has stated: “The international social movement for change—which refers to itself as ‘the irresistible rise of global anti-capitalism’—is stronger than many may imagine and will grow stronger.” Fred Magdoff and John Bellamy Foster‘…The capitalist workplace is one of the most profoundly undemocratic institutions on the face of the Earth. Workers have no say over decisions affecting them. If workers sat on the board of directors of democratically operated self-managed enterprises, they wouldn’t vote for the wildly unequal distribution of profits to benefit a few and for cutbacks for the many.” Richard D Wolff
“…Capitalists constantly push us to want things that keep us trapped in the system and obsessed with trivialities that distract us from resistance. All kinds of support is available if we strive to make money, worship a god, lose weight, find romance. But there is a huge lack of inspirational literature to encourage and uplift people whose lives are dedicated to social transformation. Most writing on the Left is theoretical and political — these are obviously crucial, but there isn’t much that addresses us on the ideological level, on helping us change our ways of thinking so we stay strong, on track, and motivated, that helps us establish standards of behavior that serve our goals. All we hear is the constant barrage of capitalist ideology telling us that we’re wrong, our aspirations are impossible, we’re crazy to try, and “we can’t beat ‘em, might as well join ‘em. No wonder many people feel so hopeless, depressed and overwhelmed.” Stephanie Mcmillan
“…Unfortunately I think it contributed to the de-mobilization and pacification of the people in the US. Obama is a ruthless tool of capitalism/imperialism (as all their politicians are – that is their job), but the system’s propaganda machine has been successful in portraying him as a (the only) progressive alternative to the frightening and ruthless Republicans. Presented with this awful non-choice, many understandably chose what they considered the “lesser evil.” But this is a mistake, because it lets the system off the hook. This is the fault of the Left. We are too weak, as yet, to present a real alternative to what capitalism is offering. People have allowed themselves to be content with slight enlargements of bourgeois democracy, such as gay marriage and allowing women into combat. These are not real advances. As if it’s a victory for women, to be “allowed” to fight for imperialism! No, thank you.” Stephanie Mcmillan
“ I decided to create this book (As the World Burns: 50 Simple Things You Can Do to Stay in Denial) after discussing Al Gore’s Inconvenient Truth… the film presented the problem of global warming in a compelling, appropriately urgent way. But when it came time to guide people to action, it was worse than inadequate—it was misleading. Gore’s list of “10 Things You Can Do” (and countless other lists like it) directs the audience’s attention away from the source of the problem, industrialization, and it attempts to convince us to blame ourselves instead. It asserts that if we modify our behavior as “consumers” (change our light bulbs, adjust our thermostats), then we can save the planet. This is a lie. What this list didn’t show was the math. We did. If every person in the United States did everything that Al Gore recommends at the end of the film, there would be a one-time reduction of CO2 emissions of 21%. Obviously that’s not going to put much of a dent in the problem. More importantly, it leaves the worst polluters, big corporations, off the hook. Exxon-Mobil alone is responsible for 5% of all global CO2 emissions. The US military consumes 395,000 barrels of oil a day. Do you think dismantling that might be more effective than obsessing about not leaving our refrigerator doors open? Yet the latter is what we are told to focus on. We are told, over and over, that the only power we have is over our own lifestyles, and specifically as “consumers”—how very conveeeeenient for those who profit from the murder of our planet and then profit again from selling us “green” products. … solutions are not to be found in our individual consumer choices, but instead can only be achieved by fighting against, defeating and dismantling the industrial capitalist system.” Stephanie Mcmillan
“… I’m very concerned that there are not more Black women deeply committed to anti-capitalist politics. But one would have to understand the role that gender oppression plays in encouraging young Black females to think that they don’t need to study about capitalism. That they don’t need to read men who were my teachers like Walter Rodney, and Nkrumah, and Amilcar Cabral……I’m very much in favor of the kind of education for critical consciousness that says: Let’s not look at these things separately. Let’s look at how they converge so that when we begin to take a stand against them, we can take that kind of strategic stance that allows us to be self-determining as a people struggling in a revolutionary way on all fronts.
…I think Marxist thought–the work of people like Gramsci–is very crucial to educating ourselves for political consciousness…. A class rooted analysis is where I begin in all my work….… one of the big issues I deal with is the degree to which capitalism is being presented as the answer….For example, you have a Rapper like Ice T in his new book, The Ice Opinions, making an astute class analysis when he says that “People live in the ghetto not because they’re Black, but because they’re poor.” But then he goes on to offer capitalism as a solution. This means that he has a total gap in his understanding if he imagines that becoming rich within this society–individual wealth–is somehow a way to redeem Black life. The only hope for us to redeem the material lives of Black people is a call for the redistribution of wealth and resources which is not only a critique of capitalism, but an incredible challenge to capitalism…” bell hooks“… I have to engage feminism because that becomes the vehicle by which I project myself as a female into the heart of the struggle, but the heart of the struggle does not begin with feminism. It begins with an understanding of domination and with a critique of domination in all its forms. I think it is in fact, a danger to think of the starting point as being feminism. …I think we need a much more sophisticated vision of what it means to have a radical political consciousness. That is why I stress so much the need for African Americans to take on a political language of colonialism…. to frame our issues in a larger political context that looks at imperialism and colonialism and our place as Africans in the Diaspora so that class becomes a central factor….” bell hooks
“… I’m actually for a more communal division of labor. If we have a community where people seem to be more hip about gender, but not very hip about class, then I think that we need to strategically go for that framework of understanding which is missing, rather than to assume that one framework should always be centered on. I believe that Black women are very susceptible to bourgeois hedonistic consumerism because women are so much the targets of mass media. So, clearly, a lot of critical thinking about materialism in our lives is crucial to engaging Black women in revolutionary struggle. So that class, again, comes up and we haven’t had enough Black women leaders.
But the point is, we need to also know how some of these women, many of whom came from bourgeois families, began to acquire a more revolutionary consciousness–if, indeed, they have acquired that consciousness. It’s also easier, a lot of times, for Black women to talk about gender and ignore class because many of us are non-divesting of our support of capitalism and our longing for luxury. I think that it’s one thing to enjoy the good life and to enjoy beauty and things, and another thing to feel like you’re willing to support the killing of other people in other countries so that you can have your fine car and other luxuries. …” bell hooks“We don’t hear much from revolutionary feminists who are white because they’re not serving the bourgeois agenda of the status quo. They’re a small minority, but they are there and they are useful allies in the struggle. So I try not to use those monolithic terms anymore that I used in the beginning with Ain’t I A Woman…’ bell hooks
“…I see a hunger, especially among Black youth, for more sophisticated answers. Unfortunately, right now, it’s narrow nationalism, narrow forms of Afrocentrism, that are mostly addressing that hunger. Our leading people buy into utopian fantasies of liberation, when in fact our liberation should come from a concrete struggle in the workforce, no fantasies about ancient Africa, and kings and queens. Not that we don’t need to know about ancient Africa to address the biases of Western education.
People forget that the militant struggles of the 1960s were profoundly anti-capitalist. Even Martin Luther King reached a point, before his death, in A Testament of Hope, when he was saying we must be anti-militarist; we must critique capitalism. That has somehow gotten lost in the mix, and I think that this embracing of capitalist ethic of liberal individualism has done more to diffuse Black people’s capacity to struggle for freedom, than any other factor.” bell hooks“… I think nationalism is a non-progressive world vision right now. I think that nationalism is different from Black self-determination because, of course, any vision of Black self-determination that is rooted in a class analysis and a critique of sexism unites us with the struggles of, not only Black people, globally, for liberation, but all oppressed people. I think that nationalism has undermined revolutionary Black struggle. It’s no accident that people like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King were destroyed at those moments of their political careers when they had begun to critique nationalism as a platform of organization; and where, in fact, they replace nationalism with a critique of imperialism; which then, unites us with the liberation struggles of so many people on the planet. If we don’t have that kind of global perspective about our social realities, we will never be able to re-envision a revolutionary movement for Black self-determination that is non-exclusive, and doesn’t assume some kind of patriarchal nationhood.., Black Americans must be very, very cautious in embracing the notion of a nation as the redemptive location. The redemptive location lies in our radical politics and the strategies by which we implement those radical politics–not with the formation of a nation…” bell hooks
“….You mentioned Martin Luther King… I worked with him on neighborhood ownership questions we were looking at in the Senate at the time; and then again, a few years later, when he came out against the Vietnam War. He was also questioning the distribution of wealth, citing the “triple evils” of racism, economic exploitation and militarism. At the end, right before he was assassinated, he even began to talk about changing the economic power structure, even occasionally, using the words “democratic socialism.” In this era of difficulty we would do well to remember Dr. King as a visionary who was beginning to step out beyond the cramped consensus to ask far deeper questions about the nature of America and the possibilities for a different future for this country. That is our challenge today.” Gar Alperovitz
“…The truly central question is who gets to own the nation’s wealth? Because it’s not only an economic question, it determines politics in large part. The corporate capitalist system lodges such power in the corporations and tiny elites. An alternative system must begin at the bottom and democratize ownership from the bottom up—all the way from small co-ops and neighborhood corporations on up through city and state institutions and even, when necessary, regionally and nationally.” Gar Alperovitz
—-
“There is a lovely feature of the American psyche which rejects the notion that there are victims. In America, attitude is a magical elixir that cures everything. People are supposed to believe that they create their realities, and are solely responsible for every aspect of their lives. Everything is because of a choice you made somewhere. Somehow, you were supposed to not only be equipped to make the right choice at all times, despite your circumstances, but to know exactly what the outcome of every choice you made would be. This is all very convenient for the people at the top of our economic system with all the money and the power. Keeps the rest of us trying.”
― Carl-John X. Veraja
wvParticipantAnd this is why, i would be inclined
to vote for Trump over Clinton,
if i were to be limited to those
two choices.Trump, the Republican, wants to help the poor get
adequate health-care. Clinton, the Democrat,
does not.w
vMarch 11, 2016 at 6:45 am in reply to: Revolt Against the Oligarchs, or What's Happening in This Election #40407
wvParticipantShelley also wrote,
“….And these words shall then become
Like Oppression’s thundered doom
Ringing through each heart and brain,
Heard again – again – again –‘Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number –
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you –
Ye are many – they are few.‘———————————
Percy Bysshe Shelley – The Mask of AnarchyWritten on the occasion of the massacre carried out by the British Government
at Peterloo, Manchester 1819As I lay asleep in Italy
There came a voice from over the Sea,
And with great power it forth led me
To walk in the visions of Poesy.I met Murder on the way –
He had a mask like Castlereagh –
Very smooth he looked, yet grim;
Seven blood-hounds followed him:All were fat; and well they might
Be in admirable plight,
For one by one, and two by two,
He tossed the human hearts to chew
Which from his wide cloak he drew.Next came Fraud, and he had on,
Like Eldon, an ermined gown;
His big tears, for he wept well,
Turned to mill-stones as they fell.And the little children, who
Round his feet played to and fro,
Thinking every tear a gem,
Had their brains knocked out by them.Clothed with the Bible, as with light,
And the shadows of the night,
Like Sidmouth, next, Hypocrisy
On a crocodile rode by.And many more Destructions played
In this ghastly masquerade,
All disguised, even to the eyes,
Like Bishops, lawyers, peers, or spies.Last came Anarchy: he rode
On a white horse, splashed with blood;
He was pale even to the lips,
Like Death in the Apocalypse.And he wore a kingly crown;
And in his grasp a sceptre shone;
On his brow this mark I saw –
‘I AM GOD, AND KING, AND LAW!’With a pace stately and fast,
Over English land he passed,
Trampling to a mire of blood
The adoring multitude.And a mighty troop around,
With their trampling shook the ground,
Waving each a bloody sword,
For the service of their Lord.And with glorious triumph, they
Rode through England proud and gay,
Drunk as with intoxication
Of the wine of desolation.O’er fields and towns, from sea to sea,
Passed the Pageant swift and free,
Tearing up, and trampling down;
Till they came to London town.And each dweller, panic-stricken,
Felt his heart with terror sicken
Hearing the tempestuous cry
Of the triumph of Anarchy.For with pomp to meet him came,
Clothed in arms like blood and flame,
The hired murderers, who did sing
‘Thou art God, and Law, and King.‘We have waited, weak and lone
For thy coming, Mighty One!
Our Purses are empty, our swords are cold,
Give us glory, and blood, and gold.’Lawyers and priests, a motley crowd,
To the earth their pale brows bowed;
Like a bad prayer not over loud,
Whispering – ‘Thou art Law and God.’ –Then all cried with one accord,
‘Thou art King, and God and Lord;
Anarchy, to thee we bow,
Be thy name made holy now!’And Anarchy, the skeleton,
Bowed and grinned to every one,
As well as if his education
Had cost ten millions to the nation.For he knew the Palaces
Of our Kings were rightly his;
His the sceptre, crown and globe,
And the gold-inwoven robe.So he sent his slaves before
To seize upon the Bank and Tower,
And was proceeding with intent
To meet his pensioned ParliamentWhen one fled past, a maniac maid,
And her name was Hope, she said:
But she looked more like Despair,
And she cried out in the air:‘My father Time is weak and gray
With waiting for a better day;
See how idiot-like he stands,
Fumbling with his palsied hands!He has had child after child,
And the dust of death is piled
Over every one but me –
Misery, oh, Misery!’Then she lay down in the street,
Right before the horses’ feet,
Expecting, with a patient eye,
Murder, Fraud, and Anarchy.When between her and her foes
A mist, a light, an image rose,
Small at first, and weak, and frail
Like the vapour of a vale:Till as clouds grow on the blast,
Like tower-crowned giants striding fast,
And glare with lightnings as they fly,
And speak in thunder to the sky,It grew – a Shape arrayed in mail
Brighter than the viper’s scale,
And upborne on wings whose grain
Was as the light of sunny rain.On its helm, seen far away,
A planet, like the Morning’s, lay;
And those plumes its light rained through
Like a shower of crimson dew.With step as soft as wind it passed
O’er the heads of men – so fast
That they knew the presence there,
And looked, – but all was empty air.As flowers beneath May’s footstep waken,
As stars from Night’s loose hair are shaken,
As waves arise when loud winds call,
Thoughts sprung where’er that step did fall.And the prostrate multitude
Looked – and ankle-deep in blood,
Hope, that maiden most serene,
Was walking with a quiet mien:And Anarchy, the ghastly birth,
Lay dead earth upon the earth;
The Horse of Death tameless as wind
Fled, and with his hoofs did grind
To dust the murderers thronged behind.A rushing light of clouds and splendour,
A sense awakening and yet tender
Was heard and felt – and at its close
These words of joy and fear aroseAs if their own indignant Earth
Which gave the sons of England birth
Had felt their blood upon her brow,
And shuddering with a mother’s throeHad turned every drop of blood
By which her face had been bedewed
To an accent unwithstood, –
As if her heart had cried aloud:‘Men of England, heirs of Glory,
Heroes of unwritten story,
Nurslings of one mighty Mother,
Hopes of her, and one another;‘Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number,
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you –
Ye are many – they are few.‘What is Freedom? – ye can tell
That which slavery is, too well –
For its very name has grown
To an echo of your own.‘Tis to work and have such pay
As just keeps life from day to day
In your limbs, as in a cell
For the tyrants’ use to dwell,‘So that ye for them are made
Loom, and plough, and sword, and spade,
With or without your own will bent
To their defence and nourishment.‘Tis to see your children weak
With their mothers pine and peak,
When the winter winds are bleak, –
They are dying whilst I speak.‘Tis to hunger for such diet
As the rich man in his riot
Casts to the fat dogs that lie
Surfeiting beneath his eye;‘Tis to let the Ghost of Gold
Take from Toil a thousandfold
More that e’er its substance could
In the tyrannies of old.‘Paper coin – that forgery
Of the title-deeds, which ye
Hold to something of the worth
Of the inheritance of Earth.‘Tis to be a slave in soul
And to hold no strong control
Over your own wills, but be
All that others make of ye.‘And at length when ye complain
With a murmur weak and vain
‘Tis to see the Tyrant’s crew
Ride over your wives and you –
Blood is on the grass like dew.‘Then it is to feel revenge
Fiercely thirsting to exchange
Blood for blood – and wrong for wrong –
Do not thus when ye are strong.‘Birds find rest, in narrow nest
When weary of their wingèd quest
Beasts find fare, in woody lair
When storm and snow are in the air.‘Asses, swine, have litter spread
And with fitting food are fed;
All things have a home but one –
Thou, Oh, Englishman, hast none!‘This is slavery – savage men
Or wild beasts within a den
Would endure not as ye do –
But such ills they never knew.‘What art thou Freedom? O! could slaves
Answer from their living graves
This demand – tyrants would flee
Like a dream’s dim imagery:‘Thou art not, as impostors say,
A shadow soon to pass away,
A superstition, and a name
Echoing from the cave of Fame.‘For the labourer thou art bread,
And a comely table spread
From his daily labour come
In a neat and happy home.‘Thou art clothes, and fire, and food
For the trampled multitude –
No – in countries that are free
Such starvation cannot be
As in England now we see.‘To the rich thou art a check,
When his foot is on the neck
Of his victim, thou dost make
That he treads upon a snake.‘Thou art Justice – ne’er for gold
May thy righteous laws be sold
As laws are in England – thou
Shield’st alike the high and low.‘Thou art Wisdom – Freemen never
Dream that God will damn for ever
All who think those things untrue
Of which Priests make such ado.‘Thou art Peace – never by thee
Would blood and treasure wasted be
As tyrants wasted them, when all
Leagued to quench thy flame in Gaul.‘What if English toil and blood
Was poured forth, even as a flood?
It availed, Oh, Liberty,
To dim, but not extinguish thee.‘Thou art Love – the rich have kissed
Thy feet, and like him following Christ,
Give their substance to the free
And through the rough world follow thee,‘Or turn their wealth to arms, and make
War for thy belovèd sake
On wealth, and war, and fraud – whence they
Drew the power which is their prey.‘Science, Poetry, and Thought
Are thy lamps; they make the lot
Of the dwellers in a cot
So serene, they curse it not.‘Spirit, Patience, Gentleness,
All that can adorn and bless
Art thou – let deeds, not words, express
Thine exceeding loveliness.‘Let a great Assembly be
Of the fearless and the free
On some spot of English ground
Where the plains stretch wide around.‘Let the blue sky overhead,
The green earth on which ye tread,
All that must eternal be
Witness the solemnity.‘From the corners uttermost
Of the bounds of English coast;
From every hut, village, and town
Where those who live and suffer moan,‘From the workhouse and the prison
Where pale as corpses newly risen,
Women, children, young and old
Groan for pain, and weep for cold –‘From the haunts of daily life
Where is waged the daily strife
With common wants and common cares
Which sows the human heart with tares –‘Lastly from the palaces
Where the murmur of distress
Echoes, like the distant sound
Of a wind alive around‘Those prison halls of wealth and fashion,
Where some few feel such compassion
For those who groan, and toil, and wail
As must make their brethren pale –‘Ye who suffer woes untold,
Or to feel, or to behold
Your lost country bought and sold
With a price of blood and gold –‘Let a vast assembly be,
And with great solemnity
Declare with measured words that ye
Are, as God has made ye, free –‘Be your strong and simple words
Keen to wound as sharpened swords,
And wide as targes let them be,
With their shade to cover ye.‘Let the tyrants pour around
With a quick and startling sound,
Like the loosening of a sea,
Troops of armed emblazonry.Let the charged artillery drive
Till the dead air seems alive
With the clash of clanging wheels,
And the tramp of horses’ heels.‘Let the fixèd bayonet
Gleam with sharp desire to wet
Its bright point in English blood
Looking keen as one for food.‘Let the horsemen’s scimitars
Wheel and flash, like sphereless stars
Thirsting to eclipse their burning
In a sea of death and mourning.‘Stand ye calm and resolute,
Like a forest close and mute,
With folded arms and looks which are
Weapons of unvanquished war,‘And let Panic, who outspeeds
The career of armèd steeds
Pass, a disregarded shade
Through your phalanx undismayed.‘Let the laws of your own land,
Good or ill, between ye stand
Hand to hand, and foot to foot,
Arbiters of the dispute,‘The old laws of England – they
Whose reverend heads with age are gray,
Children of a wiser day;
And whose solemn voice must be
Thine own echo – Liberty!‘On those who first should violate
Such sacred heralds in their state
Rest the blood that must ensue,
And it will not rest on you.‘And if then the tyrants dare
Let them ride among you there,
Slash, and stab, and maim, and hew, –
What they like, that let them do.‘With folded arms and steady eyes,
And little fear, and less surprise,
Look upon them as they slay
Till their rage has died away.‘Then they will return with shame
To the place from which they came,
And the blood thus shed will speak
In hot blushes on their cheek.‘Every woman in the land
Will point at them as they stand –
They will hardly dare to greet
Their acquaintance in the street.‘And the bold, true warriors
Who have hugged Danger in wars
Will turn to those who would be free,
Ashamed of such base company.‘And that slaughter to the Nation
Shall steam up like inspiration,
Eloquent, oracular;
A volcano heard afar.‘And these words shall then become
Like Oppression’s thundered doom
Ringing through each heart and brain,
Heard again – again – again –‘Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number –
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you –
Ye are many – they are few.’March 11, 2016 at 6:22 am in reply to: Florio explains why LA Rams may not be a destination team just yet for FAs #40406
wvParticipantSeems strange to me, to listen to JT
or Bernie etc, still talkin about the Rams.
Weird situation.w
v
wvParticipantYeah, i thought CoachO’s posts on Barnes
were some of the Highlights of the Posting-Year.
Zine worthy.Still, even though a Center may be thot of as half-a-blocker,
there’s great centers and not-so-great-centers. So, i still
am in a quandary as to how CoachO evaluates centers.
I mean the great ones can block singled-up, i assume.
How does Barnes rank compared to the other 31 starting Centers,
I wonder?w
v
wvParticipant“I can imagine a world
without mega-corporate money in politics.”I cannot. I’m a centrist-whatever that means-because in my opinion they get stuff done more often than those who are at loggerheads with the other side of the aisle. I can think of a hundred other examples of where the “pragmatic” approach resulted in social and economic progress- but I’ve beaten my drum too long on this subject. My suggestion is that if its between Trump and Clinton you take Chomsky’s advice:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/noam-chomsky-supports-hillary-clinton-218192
————————
Well I agree with Noam on a lot of that, and i think its a “reasonable” approach to vote for the ‘lesser of two corporate-evils,’
and I’ve used that approach myself numerous times — but I think its
time for ‘me’ to stop. I think i want to start voting for the Green Party
in the general elections. I’m not sure its a ‘reasonable’ approach. But I’m doin it 🙂Now, back to Surfin.
w
v
“…The MIT academic, a self-described libertarian socialist, called Sanders “a New Dealer” rather than a “socialist,” and praised him overall but offered a grim view for his campaign.“I agree with him in a lot of things, not in other things,” he said. “I frankly think that in our system of mainly bought elections he doesn’t have much of a chance, but if he were elected I think he would — of the current candidates — I think he’d be the one who would have, from my point of view, the best policies.”
Chomsky has signaled support for Sanders throughout the past year, speculating before Sanders launched his campaign that he could endorse him. Chomsky has also contributed to Sanders’ campaigns in the past…”
March 10, 2016 at 9:20 am in reply to: informal poll … how do the Rams look in free agency so far #40348
wvParticipantLast year I saw some people around there, on the net in general, lamenting that the Rams did not sign veterans for the OL.
Well if they had, there would be even less cap space now, and a chance of losing one of the guys they did sign.
Any vet they signed in 2015 who was worth it would have been taking cap space from 2016.
I always thought they had to choose their poison—go young on the OL and save 2016 and 2017 cap space, or add vets to the OL and subtract 2016 and 2017 cap space.
I think of the 2 poisons they chose the right one.
–
Excellent points. Fans in general, miss that kind of stuff.
w
v
wvParticipant“Now, name a ‘pragmatist’ since the 40s who has made fundamental progress stemming the tide of Corporate-Power.”
Its interesting-and telling-that you discount some of the greatest achievements this country has ever accomplished by pragmatic leaders simply because they occurred before you were born. Particularly when you stated flatly that pragmatic leaders cannot make changes. Maybe you meant today? Well here’s a brief list of those “changes” made by a recent leader that were all opposed by the corporate controlled republican party:
Under the Affordable Care Act this country now has -for the first time ever-less than 10% of its population uninsured. More than 17.6 million people now have coverage that did not before. (of course you will say a “real” change would be universal single payer system-but that does not discount the comparative data)
The Iran Nuclear Deal-opposed by all corporate interests
The establishment of US Cuba relations-opposed by some but not all corporate interests
The trade deal with 12 Pacific Rim Countries.
Same Sex Marriage.
When you argue that I will say corporations do good-yes-I believe there is a symbiotic relationship between corporate greed and societal progress. Its been that way and will always be that way as long as the system of capitalism is in place-which it will be. Hitler was defeated in large part because of our own corporate greed. So was the defeat of Polio. The Koch brothers contribute mightily to MD Anderson the leading cancer research hospital in the US> We both love and enjoy our Rams-owned by one of the largest corporate conglomerates in the world. I believe you are a court appointed attorney supported by tax dollars from people likely employed by large corporations. There is always a thread. Its symbiotic.
Citizens United ? Lets look at the Michigan irony. Sanders wins because of the tremendous support from UAW. Yet labor unions benefited every much as corporations from that decision in terms of their ability to provide financial support to the candidate of their choice. So while Sanders-and to be honest Clinton too-rail against Citizens United he carries the UAW vote to victory.
At bottom for me is that-as you agreed-we have made considerable progress on social issues in this country due to the work of pragmatist leaders -but we have also suffered from corporate greed. But until we no longer are under a capitalistic system the good guys and the bad guys will do battle and out of it will be victories and losses. And I can assure you the victories will be on the shoulders of the pragmatist-and not on political anarchy.
Maybe you and I should stick to discussing surfing.
——————————–
Well, we just have fundamental disagreements on economics and corporate-power.
You mentioned obama-care, and that is a long complicated discussion. Lots of pros and cons and unknowns. Was it an improvement over what we had before? Yes. Is it anywhere near as good as a single-payer system? No. Did the ‘pragmatists’ prevent us from getting the better system, ie, single-payer? I would say, yes, they are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
I like Bernies approach to health care — not the ‘pragmatist’ ,Clinton.As far as same sex marriage — again thats Identity Poltix. The system doesnt oppose progress on those fronts. Both the Sanders-types and Clinton-types have the same policies on Identity-politix.
Opening relations with Cuba? Corporations are always looking for new markets.
I’m not sure how else to interpret that.Pacific Rim agreement? Nafta? You call that progress brought about by ‘pragmatists’. I call it a hideous example of inequality and corporate-power.
I agree with Bernie on the Pacific Rim issue:“….The Senate granted Obama approval to fast-track the measure and present the agreement to Congress for a yes-or-no vote with no amendments allowed. During Senate hearings in April, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders fought fast track, warning that the American people need time to understand the TPP. He issued a statement Monday saying, “I am disappointed but not surprised by the decision to move forward on the disastrous Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement that will hurt consumers and cost American jobs. Wall Street and other big corporations have won again. It is time for the rest of us to stop letting multi-national corporations rig the system to pad their profits at our expense.” Robert Weissman, president of the consumer advocacy group Public Citizen, joins us to discuss TPP….”
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33146-nafta-on-steroids-consumer-groups-slam-the-tpp-as-12-nations-agree-to-trade-accordBasically we just have fundamental disagreements
on Corporate-Capitalism, Waterfield. Like i said, i think its destroyed meaningful democracy, created unethical inequality, and is on a trajectory to destroy the biosphere. Its a bad thing. Unlike Surfing 🙂So you see slow pragmatic progress in Corporate-Cabitalism,
and i see Unconscionable Unnecessary Inequality, Environmental Genocide,
and Kronky. 🙂I can imagine a world
without mega-corporate money in politics. I will vote for politicians
who share that view. Like Sanders, like Jill Stein. In the past I’ve held my nose and voted for the ‘less-evil of two pragmatists’ but I’m done with that 🙂w
vMarch 9, 2016 at 11:59 pm in reply to: Man Who Assaulted Black Woman At Trump Rally Learns It Ruined His Life #40331
wvParticipantIf indeed Trump is in favor of single-payer universal health insurance…2 things about that.
1. He’s running on his own money. He is therefore not beholden, like virtually everyone else is, to money from the pharms and private insurers.
2. I also would never be persuaded to vote for him, even with that. His overt racism is too much for me and having a Putin in office who thinks and talks that way for 4 years would be bad. I’ll wait until a progressive shakes free of the pharms and insurers and vote for them some day.
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Fair enuff, but if it comes to that,
i intend to cancel your vote out,
with a vote for Donald Strangelove.If he could bring about single-payer-National-Health-Care,
I’d take it. And I’d just hold my breath for four years,
and hope he wouldn’t kill all the gays, and women, and muslims,
and then blow up the World.w
v
wvParticipantWhen you argue that “pragmatists” can’t get anything done I believe your wrong on that too. One of the greatest advancements in our country was the Civil Rights Act of 1964 accomplished by back door negotiations of one of the greatest pragmatic presidents of our time. WW 2 was brought to a conclusion by another pragmatist after our entry into the war by still another pragmatist saved Europe-and who also engineered us out of a depression and into the New Deal. Earl Warren, a republican-but a pragmatist-ushered into law Roe v Wade. These were not men on the far right or the far left.
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Well, you had to go back to the 1940s to name a ‘pragmatist’ who
made a fundamental ECONOMIC change. The 40s.I rest my case 🙂
I didnt say, btw, that “pragmatists” never accomplish ‘anything’.
There has been and always will be progress on Race, feminism and gender issues in this country. Identity politics doesn’t threaten corporate power and so, the ‘system’ is not preventing progress in those areas.Now, name a ‘pragmatist’ since the 40s who has made fundamental progress stemming the tide of Corporate-Power.
…and now you will say, you like corporations
and they give us good things, and only ‘extremists’
would be anti-corporation… Right? 🙂As to what has brought the country to this divisive/strident
state where ‘pragmatists’ are being drowned out by Trump/Sanders supporters?Good question. What do you think some of the reasons are?
I’m not exactly sure, myself. I’m still amazed Bernie is doing as well as he is. Something seems to be happening…but I’m not sure what. Somethin unknown is do’in i dunno-what.w
v
“Something unknown is doing we don’t know what—that is what our theory amounts to.”
[Expressing the quantum theory description of an electron has no familiar conception of a real form.] — Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington
The Nature Of The Physical World (1928), 291.March 9, 2016 at 7:49 pm in reply to: informal poll … how do the Rams look in free agency so far #40311
wvParticipantHow do things look so far?
Looks clear.
wvParticipant6 million
I was thinking more like what he actually got.
After Quinn and Donald, i was thinking he was
the next most valuable defender.They’ve lost four starters. Is the D in trouble?
yes? No? Maybe?w
v
wvParticipantOr…Denver doesn’t care if the qb is mediocre?
Their 2nd choice after CK btw is Keenum.
…
Keenum might win a Ring
with that Denver Defense,
mightn’t heI personally would sign Magic Johnson
as the LA quarterback. I think it might
bring in the celebrity fans, which is what
you need to win in LA.w
v
wvParticipantLooking at yesterday’s election results I’m struck by how much both the far left and the far right have in common. Seems to me that we are becoming a country of angry “statement” makers. The Trump supporters are angry and want to make a statement. The Sanders supporters are angry and need to make a statement. Neither give much consideration as to how to get actual “stuff” done. So why are we so angry ? And how can the far right be angry and the far left be angry at the same time? Seems to me that the Republicans are moving further and further and further to the right and the Democrats are moving further and further and further to the left.
At some point in time we need to stop making “statements” and get stuff done. And that’s called pragmatism.
I need a drink.
================================
You always say that, W. Not that there’s anything wrong with that 🙂Those of us who simply believe in Sanders/Stein’s POLICIES
dont see supporting him/her as “making statements.”Its real simple — we think Sanders/Stein’s POLICIES
are better for the poor, and the biosphere, than
the Pro-Corporate Candidates.Anger is a different subject. Are a lot of the Sanders and Stein and Trump folks “angry” ? Sure. A lot are fed up with all kinds of things.
I think you make a mistake conflating the Trump supporters and the Sanders/Stein supporters simply because you see a lot of ‘anger’
in both sides. They seem to be angry about much different
policies and issues, when I talk to both groups…Personally, just speaking for me, I’m very angry
about three things in a nutshell:
1) Inequality (Ie, poverty and all the myriad ways the poor
are degraded, dehumanized, and destroyed, by corporate power)
2) The destruction of the Biosphere (corporate power)
3) The destruction of meaningful democracy by corporate power. (Citizens United, corporate personhood, media owned by the rich, etc, etc)The ‘pragmatic’ candidates wont work to change
those three things, in my view.So, ya know, i respectfully disagree. …there was a time
i would have ‘gone off’ on you, btw, as you know.I’ve mellowed 🙂
I just ‘sigh’ now.
w
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wv.
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