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wvParticipant<
I don’t think you understand Syria if you listen to Putin. Try reading some genuinely informed critiques of Putin in Syria, instead of the Putin PR machine.
Putin is a right-wing autocrat. Those guys don’t suddenly start offering englightment and truth because they entered a foreign civil war.
Starting with readings from 2015.
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Well thats mildly insulting. You are assuming i haven’t read what YOU call ‘informed critiques’. I have. And i have read the Putin stuff. And i dont think you get a clear picture unless you read ALL of it.
We just disagree on this. I think the Putin take on Syria is much closer to the truth than the corporotacracy stuff.
So lets just let each other believe what we will, without the personalizing of it.
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vwvParticipantWhat die Putin say exactly that was wrong? What did he say that was not factual?
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vHe didn’t say he was backing an anti-democratic regime in the interests of Russian sphere of influence power and nothing else. He doesn’t want Syria to become Libya. The USA didn’t want South Vietnam to become North Vietnam. No difference.
All the rest is bs and rhetoric.
There is no good gain from acting like an ex-KGB autocrat like Putin is actually a thoughtful statesman.
We’re critical of americans for doing less. Why would we act like Putin of all people is something he’s not.
Some euro-leftists defend Putin. It made me lose respect for them. It’s like they lost their ability to think and analyze.
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Well, i didn’t understand any of that answer, but ok.We just see this differently. This is about understanding Syria to me. Understanding Syria. And to understand whats going on in Syria and why its going on, i think its necessary to listen to Putin. To get the Putin point of view. To add it to the mix.
His autocratic policies in Russia are a separate issue.I think its useful to listen to Putin’s critiques of the corporotacracy’s positions on foreign policy, Syria, etc. I might have a different view about listening to Putin defend his autocratic domestic policies. Big difference to me. You just seem to dismiss everything he has to say. I wouldnt listen to Stalin about his domestic policies. But i might listen to his views on what Hitler was up to.
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vwvParticipant“…Only 10% of people were aware that more than 90% of climate scientists are convinced that global warming is human-caused. The vast majority of people that answered the survey did not think the climate crisis would directly affect them or their families…”
Link:http://www.therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3166So 90% of people have been living in a friggin’ bubble.
Of course the majority of the blame for that goes to the media for not stressing the facts of climate change and for being partially complicit in attempts by the fossil fuel industry to cover it up. I say they are complicit because they too often present both sides of the issue as being equally valid when they are not. The evidence says climate change is real so there’s a false equivalency there.
But we are also a nation of people who can’t think critically and lack intellectual curiosity. I suppose our educational system should be blamed for turning out good little worker bees who don’t question anything. I mean, how else could so many people still think there’s nothing to worry about? At this point how could anyone not know that the vast majority of climate scientists believe the earth is warming? I know that many people have other pressing concerns to deal with but still…only 10% are aware of the consensus about climate change? There’s some willful ignorance at work there.
A perfect storm caused by corporate greed, a complicit media, our educational system, and our own indifference is forming that is gonna destroy us.
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Well i suspect things are pretty complicated. I dont think we can just reduce things down to a number like ten percent or ninety percent etc. I think things are more…oh…’fluid’ than that. Or somethin. I dunno.
Plus, if your whole entire life depends on working in a coal mine or fracking field etc, it aint gonna be easy to believe in Climate change. Ya know. So much cognitive dissonance in the world. I guess my point is, its not just the corporate media — its corporate capitalism — which creates all these corporate jobs — which then makes it hard for workers to ‘see’ those jobs as biosphere-wreckers. I mean, who wants to feel bad about what they do?
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vwvParticipantNext…Stalin on Estonia.
Hussein on Kuwait.
Nixon on Vietnam.
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What die Putin say exactly that was wrong? What did he say that was not factual?w
vwvParticipantlink:https://www.thenation.com/article/fourth-branch-us-government/
Why Does the United States Have 17 Different Intelligence Agencies?
We have built over thirty building complexes for top-secret intelligence work since 2001—and our security state just keeps growing.
By Tom Engelhardt
As every schoolchild knows, there are three check-and-balance branches of the US government: the executive, Congress and the judiciary. That’s bedrock Americanism and the most basic high school civics material. Only one problem: it’s just not so.
During the Cold War years and far more strikingly in the twenty-first century, the US government has evolved. It sprouted a fourth branch: the national security state, whose main characteristic may be an unquenchable urge to expand its power and reach. Admittedly, it still lacks certain formal prerogatives of governmental power. Nonetheless, at a time when Congress and the presidency are in a check-and-balance ballet of inactivity that would have been unimaginable to Americans of earlier eras, the Fourth Branch is an ever more unchecked and unbalanced power center in Washington. Curtained off from accountability by a penumbra of secrecy, its leaders increasingly are making nitty-gritty policy decisions and largely doing what they want, a situation illuminated by a recent controversy over the possible release of a Senate report on CIA rendition and torture practices.
All of this is or should be obvious, but remains surprisingly unacknowledged in our American world. The rise of the Fourth Branch began at a moment of mobilization for a global conflict, World War II. It gained heft and staying power in the Cold War of the second half of the twentieth century, when that other superpower, the Soviet Union, provided the excuse for expansion of every sort.
Its officials bided their time in the years after the fall of the Soviet Union, when “terrorism” had yet to claim the landscape and enemies were in short supply. In the post-9/11 era, in a phony “wartime” atmosphere, fed by trillions of taxpayer dollars, and under the banner of American “safety,” it has grown to unparalleled size and power. So much so that it sparked a building boom in and around the national capital (as well as elsewhere in the country). In their 2010 Washington Post series “Top Secret America,” Dana Priest and William Arkin offered this thumbnail summary of the extent of that boom for the US Intelligence Community: “In Washington and the surrounding area,” they wrote, “33 building complexes for top-secret intelligence work are under construction or have been built since September 2001. Together they occupy the equivalent of almost three Pentagons or 22 US Capitol buildings—about 17 million square feet of space.” And in 2014, the expansion is ongoing…..see link…long article…
wvParticipantSpy agencies:
link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intelligence_agenciesUnited Arab Emirates United Arab Emirates
UAE State Security
NESA – National Electronic Security Authority (NESA)United Kingdom United Kingdom
Main article: List of intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom
Domestic intelligence
Security Service/MI5[13] – Domestic counter terrorism and counter espionage intelligence gathering and analysis.
National Domestic Extremism and Disorder Intelligence Unit (NDEDIU)[14] – Domestic counter extremism and public disorder intelligence gathering and analysis.
National Crime Agency (NCA)[15] – Organised crime intelligence gathering and analysis.
National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NBIS)[16] – Illegal firearms intelligence analysis.
National Fraud Intelligence Bureau (NFIB)[17] – Economic crime intelligence gathering and analysis.Foreign intelligence
Secret Intelligence Service (SIS)/MI6[18] – Foreign intelligence gathering and analysis.
Defence Intelligence (DI)[19] – Military intelligence analysis.Signals intelligence
Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ)[20] – Signals intelligence gathering and analysis.
Joint intelligence
Joint Intelligence Organisation (JIO)[21] – Joint intelligence analysis.
United States United States
Main article: United States Intelligence Community
Office of the Director of National Intelligence
Independent agencies
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
United States Department of Defense
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
National Security Agency (NSA)
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA)
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
Twenty-Fifth Air Force (25 AF)
Military Intelligence Corps (MI)
Marine Corps Intelligence Activity (MCIA)
Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)
United States Department of Energy
Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence (OICI)
United States Department of Homeland Security
Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A)
Coast Guard Intelligence (CGI)
United States Department of Justice
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
Office of National Security Intelligence (ONSI)
United States Department of State
Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)
United States Department of the Treasury
Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence (TFI)Uzbekistan Uzbekistan
Milliy Xavfsizlik Xizmati, Служба национальной безопасности (СНБ) (National Security Service)
wvParticipantThat’s a very thin “Russia refutation.” I don’t know why you’re invested in wishing that issue away. Seems quixotic.
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I dont know why you keep misreading what i write.I have said over and over and over that I think Russia interferes in all kinds of elections. And the US interferes in all kinds of elections. And Israel. And China. And on and on.
BUT, i also think the MSM and factions of the deep-state or perhaps just factions of the DNC are not interested in excavating the true facts about election-interference — they are only interested in smearing Trump.
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vwvParticipantWell, fwiw, in my work, as a public-defender, two of four things are almost always present regarding ‘street-criminals’ in general :
neglect
abuse
addiction
povertyNeglect is the one that is often hardest to excavate/analyze. To me neglect can also be described as lack of love by a parent. Some parents are kindof ‘autistic’ and robotic and cant show their kids warmth/empathy/love. For whatever reason.
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vwvParticipantI’ve seen some articles raising the issue of sanctions against the US. Here’s Naomi Klein for example, fwiw.
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link:The Intercept LINK https://theintercept.com/2017/06/01/will-trumps-slow-mo-walkaway-world-in-flames-behind-him-finally-provoke-consequences-for-planetary-arson/“…[T]here is another call that is increasingly being heard from social movements around the world — for economic sanctions in the face of Trump’s climate vandalism. Because here’s a crazy idea: Whether or not it’s written into the Paris Agreement, when you unilaterally decide to burn the world, there should be a price to pay. And that should be true whether you are the United States government, or Exxon Mobil — or some Frankenstein merger of the two.
A year ago, the suggestion that the U.S. should face tangible punishment for putting the rest of the rest of humanity at risk was laughed off in establishment circles: Surely no one would put their trade relationships in danger for anything so frivolous as a liveable planet. But just this week, Martin Wolf, writing in the Financial Times, declared, “If the U.S. withdrew from the Paris accord, the rest of the world must consider sanctions.”
We’re likely a long way from major U.S. trading partners taking that kind of a step, but governments are not the only ones that can impose economic penalties for lethal and immoral behavior. Movements can do so directly, in the form of boycotts and divestment campaigns targeting governments and corporations, on the South African model. And not just fossil fuel corporations, but Trump’s branded empire as well. Moral suasion doesn’t work on Trump. Economic pressure just might.
It’s time for some people’s sanctions.
wvParticipantInteresting little piece on the growth of OLinemen over the decades.
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vwvParticipantOne in five Americans think socialism is superior to capitalism. Thats a bit more than i expected.
link:https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/One_in_five_Americans_finds_socialism_superior,_poll_says
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link:http://www.gallup.com/poll/125645/Socialism-Viewed-Positively-Americans.aspx
Majority of Americans positive on capitalism, entrepreneurs, free enterprise, and small business
PRINCETON, NJ — More than one-third of Americans (36%) have a positive image of “socialism,” while 58% have a negative image. Views differ by party and ideology, with a majority of Democrats and liberals saying they have a positive view of socialism, compared to a minority of Republicans and conservatives….
Americans are almost uniformly positive in their reactions to three terms: small business, free enterprise, and entrepreneurs. They are divided on big business and the federal government, with roughly as many Americans saying their view is positive as say it is negative. Americans are more positive than negative on capitalism (61% versus 33%) and more negative than positive on socialism (36% to 58%).
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This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantWell i can tell ya (not that i have to) what the pro-capitalists would say to all that — they’d say “look at North Korea…Communism fails everywhere…America isn’t perfect but its the best there is…our poor people are better off than other nations poor people…”
I’d be interested, btw, in knowing just how many Americans would be comfortable with the label ‘socialist’ or ‘libertarian-socialist’ or commie. I wonder what the numbers are?
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vwvParticipant…meanwhile in London..
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UK Election polls: Corbyn in shock surge as Labour leader now more popular than May in LondonUK General Election polls: Jeremy Corbyn in shock surge as Labour leader now more popular than Theresa May in London
Exclusive: Labour enjoys huge 17-point lead in London as Tories face losing seats
Theresa May is dealt a blow today as a new poll reveals support for Jeremy Corbyn surging in London.
For the first time, more voters in the capital say they think Labour’s leader would make a better Prime Minister than Mrs May.
The Tories’ hopes of gaining seats in London are dashed by a huge 17-point lead opening up for Labour. Instead, they could lose seats. Mrs May came out fighting with a speech in the North-East at lunchtime. “I have the determination and I have the plan,” she said, calling the election “the most important this country has faced in my lifetime”.
She added: “If we get Brexit right, I am confident the future will be bright.”
The current standing of the parties reflects how London voted in 1997 when Tony Blair won his landslide first victory, according to the YouGov poll of 1,000 Londoners produced for Queen Mary University of London. Labour is on 50 per cent, up from 41 per cent a month ago. The Tories are on 33 per cent, down from 36 in a month. In March the parties were just three points apart, at 37/34….
wvParticipantRussell Banks
wvParticipantWell i was not optimistic but i ‘was’ hoping for a Greg-Robinson-Resurrection story this year. A comeback-of-the-year kinda story.
We may get a different-kinda story.
Sure seems like a better candidate for guard than tackle
but what do i know.w
vwvParticipantESPN’s self-immolation continues. Clayton is the best. This is so bizarre.
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I blame the deep-state.
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vJune 1, 2017 at 8:53 am in reply to: Goff's ninth game? articles on Goff in OTAs & mini-camp & up to training camp #69566wvParticipantI’m glad McV said the ‘best players will play’ suggesting that maybe Goff would not just be handed the job.
I think every coach should ‘always’ say that every single year.
I just think McV is making a general point about his football-philosophy. I doubt it was anything more than that. Best players play. Nothing controversial about that to me. Goff’s gotta win the job, just like everyone else.
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vwvParticipant=======================
Donald Trump Is Now in Sync With U.S. Imperial Policy in Syria
Posted on May 30, 2017By Glen Ford
link:http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/donald_trump_is_now_in_synch_with_us_imperial_policy_in_syria_20170530Four months after Donald Trump’s inauguration, the U.S. military is fighting Hillary Clinton’s war in Syria. The recent U.S. airstrike against a mixed column of Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi and Lebanese soldiers marks a major escalation, as the U.S. draws lines in the sand to claim parts of Syria as its own. Although the presence of the Russian air force has prevented the establishment of Clinton’s “no-fly” zones over Syria, the Americans appear to be attempting to establish “no-go” zones on the ground to provide sanctuary for their Islamic jihadist proxies….
…The attack is a blatant violation of international law, an act of war, since the Americans and Brits have no right to be on Syrian soil, while the Iraqis, Iranians, Lebanese and Russians are guests of the sovereign, internationally recognized government in Damascus….”wvParticipantwvParticipantTesting. Trying to link to the 58 minute mark of this noam utube.
wvParticipantI”m trying to learn to use this, btw:
wvParticipantI am still wondering about the missile strike in Syria. If Trump is under the influence of Russia —
Is someone claiming he is directly under the influence of Russia?
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Noone on this board is doing that but sure,
there are inferences and implications by the Dems, through the MSM, that he is under the influence of Putin and the rooskies.Though ‘under the influence’ is not a rigid black-and-white kindof concept. He might be ‘somewhat’ under their influence or ‘greatly’ under their influence, or ‘at times’ under their influence, etc etc.
At any rate, the missile strike was odd to me.
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vwvParticipantNew leaks about the content of the classified reports of Russian officials claiming to have incriminating financial material are “yet another round of false and unverified claims made by anonymous sources to smear the President,” the White House told CNN.
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My own wild-speculation is this: OF COURSE the Russians delved deeply into Trump’s past and dug up every single ugly thing they could find. I would think every country with a powerful secret-police-force did the same thing. I have no doubt Israel did the same thing. China, Europe, etc.
And of course there was a LOT of ugliness to find, given that Trump has a long history of unethical and ugly behavior.
I also think none of that matters to his base — cause (A) they dont care, and (B) they will never believe anything that comes from sources like the MSM.
….on a different tangent, I am still wondering about the missile strike in Syria. If Trump is under the influence of Russia — why the missile strike in Syria? Was it all just a set up to make it LOOK like Trump was not under the influence of russia? Was the strike ‘politics’ or policy?
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vwvParticipantIMO this is very minor in-group parsing of concepts. Which is fine. Outside of this parsing, we’re united against the same things.
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Absolutely. No question.
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vwvParticipantThere are lots of hierarchies outside of feudalistic societies. I don’t even understand that statement. Of course the CIA and NSA and FBI are hierarchical.
I don’t know how you’re using that word in a way that makes sense. It is true that all organizations are, well, organized…but that fact in itself means nothing. All the organizations we like are organized too. So the fact that an organization is organized tells me nothing about the political situation or what to expect in terms of the policies of those who work for them. It’s way too over-generalizing to me. And in fact, we do know that those organizations are actually diverse and factionalized.
A hierarchical society means that when you leave work, you are still subject to social levels of power requiring direct obedience. We don’t live in that world. I don’t owe deference and obedience to someone who works for a government organization—if he asks me to let him go ahead in the grocery line because he works for the state dept., I can just say “heck no” and that’s that.
So no we’re not a hierarchical society. We’re something different. Our problems are located in some other kind of issue, not that.
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What does ‘hierarchical’ have to do with ‘deep state’ ‘corporotacracy’ ‘system’ ‘military industrial complex’ ?
There’s no rule that says those concepts have to describe a ‘rigid’ hierarchy. In fact i think the corporotacracy is more of an…oh….”oligarchy melded with corporate-legal-structure melded with secret-power/military-organizations” (CIA, NSA etc)
I dont pretend to even know what the ‘system’ is precisely in a clear mathematical way. But i can certainly see the shadowy-outlines of it. Think of it as the Rochschilds/Morgans/Rockefellers melded with the political-elites melded with the Corporate-CEOs melded with the CIA/Pentagon.
I mean, how would ‘you’ describe corporate-capitalism and how it operates?
w
vwvParticipantThe thing is much more divided than the Cartoon Evil representation would have us think.
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Well, you’ve posted with zooey and me for over a decade. Do you really think we would be satisfied with an ‘evil cartoon’ representation of reality?
You know we wouldnt.
And nothing you wrote about the run up to the Iraq war, clashes with the concept of ‘corporotacracy’ or ‘deep state’ or ‘system’ or ‘military industrial complex’.
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vwvParticipantI think your approach tends to hide the dark-blurry-elephant in the room.
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vI just resist Slogans.
To me, Slogans are the drugs of the enemy.
Which of course is a slogan but what the heck.
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To me they have nothing to do with ‘slogans’. I see all political words as less than precise. Is the term ‘alt-right’ a ‘slogan’ ? Was Ike’s term “military industrial complex” a ‘slogan’ ?
Describing or labeling ‘clusters of power’ is always difficult. Especially difficult now because so much is hidden from us by secret agencies like the CIA, NSA, etc.
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vwvParticipantBut I don’t think those things ARE synonymous. It’s not like it’s The Empire in Star Wars. I see a complicated tangle of things. Always remember I am personally going to approach stuff like this as an historian, and historians see contradictory movements and patches of differences, not simple blocs of power.
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I know you approach it differently than me. I never try to persuade you or anyone else to approach it like me.And, yes, to me they are synonymous — and the words (to me) do not mean its NOT a ‘complicated tangle of things” — of course its a complicated tangle of things. But its still a related ‘cluster-of-things’. It definitely involves contradictory currents, patches of differences, unknowns, conspiracies, non-conspiracies, and a gazillion other fluid currents — but to me, there’s a dark blurry shape to it. Something is ‘there’. I think history and critical research show that. I think your approach tends to hide the dark-blurry-elephant in the room.
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vwvParticipanton the rift in the deep-state
To be provocative, and for the sheer fun of it, I just want to say…I don’t buy the concept of the “deep state.” I think it’s no accident that it was immediately appropriated by the right. I see it as conspiracy thinking without analysis, and based on very fuzzy assumptions.
Don’t get me wrong, there IS something there TO analyze, but I don’t think that whatever it is, it has much value in explaining things.
We want a world where various federal agencies do not buy into Trump’s agenda. Why? Because Trump’s agenda is far, far worse than THEIR agendas (and it’s not just one thing and not just one agenda).
The courts stand up to Trump. Different cities and states stand up to Trump. Various agency professionals (quite rightly) stand up to Trump.
So I don’t see a “deep state” (which is a journalistic concept without much actual real explanatory value). I see a “wide division.” Different thing.
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Deep State is used in different ways by different people. “I” use it as a synonym for Corporotacracy or system.. I use the three terms interchangeably and i purposely keep away from trying to define both concepts in a rigid way.
Essentially i mean the cluster of power held by the corporations and oligarchs who are connected in often unknown ways.
I think deep-state, corporotacracy, oligarchy, plutocracy, system are all talking about the same thing, and i think they are flawed but useful words. To me they are words that lead to important questions, important research, important critical-thinking. I dont think the words are ever going to be totally clear. I dont think there has ever been anything like the deep-state before in human history.
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vwvParticipantReally, any optimism has to live right there.
His elevation was actually remarkable.
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True. Which is why the Dem-machine is
implementing its anti-bernie strategy.We’ll see how it turns out.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by
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