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wvParticipant<
Well, i think you know i basically agree about capitalism in general, and i like Jacobin too, i just dont read it very often. Is it a pay-per-view site? I know I’ve read some essays but maybe some of the site is pay-per-view, i dont remember.
Also, keep in mind the audience RT is aiming at — its a general joe and jane American audience. As well as young people, minorities and poor folks.
Jacobin is aimed at an audience more steeped in political and academic verbiage. Etc.I dont see any way out of this ‘situation,’ BT. Things have always changed in the past, but in the past the Environment was not bleeding this bad, and the technologies-of-control-and-destruction were nowhere near this powerful.
Blah, blah blah. Go rams đw
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“…Talk of democracy has little content when big business rules the life of the country through its control of the means of production, exchange, the press and other means of publicity, propaganda and communication.” John Dewey
wvParticipant“..At the time, the NFL was devoid of ANY black players. Not that the NFL had not had any black players before. But at this time, since 1934 there was an unwritten rule where none of the owners would hire any nor invite any to camps regardless of their college accolades and achievements. And the Coliseum wanted to know why…”
Thats confusing. So those two ram players were ‘not’ the first black NFL players.
Who was?
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wvParticipant“…Another disadvantage was that none of the taxi services were running that day; and not because of the eight below zero temperature at game time…”
An ice-bowl? I did not know that. How cold was it in Green Bay for the well-known ice bowl?
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vNovember 3, 2017 at 10:33 pm in reply to: With two weeks to prepare, can Rams challenge the Giants? #76869
wvParticipantWell, its another ‘big game’. Given the tough teams coming up on the schedule they need to beat the lousy teams they play. Thats what playoff teams do — they beat lousy teams.
Rams 20
Big-lousy-Blue 16I expect an ugly-yucky game where neither teams looks very good.
But Hekker and the Rams gut out a big-fat-win.w
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wvParticipantWell first off Iâve not seen these âadsâ. And i have to say, I dont trust Salon or facebook or google or twitter. I would need real EVIDENCE that these ads are
part of a Putin plot. So far all ive seen from the corporate-media is accusations.I also dont care if RT critiques russia in russia. I would not surprise me in the least if they dont. That to me, is irrelevant. What is relevant to ME, is this: Do they help the AMERICAN public see more clearly? And my answer to that is yes. Definitely. Who the hell else is talking about Zinn and Chomsky ideas on the American corporate media scene? CNN? No. FOX? No. NPR? No. PBS? No. NYTimes? No. Wash Post? No. ABC? No. NBC? No. CBS? No. Talk Radio? No.
RT is it. I dont see any other mega-mainstream-media-organization doing a marxist, radical, leftist critique.
I think RT is a godsend.
I am truly baffled at the opposing views about RT on this board. No big deal, but it does baffle me. Ah well.
Btw, just for the sake of argument, what is the Corporate-capitalist argument against all this ârussian propagandaâ ? I mean how is it supposed to help Putin? By doing what, exactly?
w
vWV,
You and I both think they do some good, much needed work on TV. And, obviously, leftists are left out of the American MSM (pretty much) entirely. Itâs always a shock to see one appear, and when they do, every century or so, theyâre usually mocked â even by âliberalâ hosts. I saw that happen when Richard D. Wolff appeared on Chris Hayesâ old Saturday show. Wolff was just being truthful, logical, rational and obvious about our economic system, and Hayes and other panelists â supposedly left of center â all but openly ridiculed him.
Anyway . . .
Again, thereâs a huge difference between those shows and those ads. Thatâs my point. And you really donât have to âtrustâ the American MSM in this matter. You can find the ads yourself via all kinds of different venues â and search engines (I use duckduckgo, for example).
Americans who were targeted by them arenât saying this didnât happen. No one is really denying it.
Your post has me thinking about another issue, though: When you say RT shows help the American public see more clearly . . . . is that really true? Weâve become so polarized, so tribal, in our own silos . . . Iâm wondering: Do non-leftists even tune in to RT? As in, isnât it more âpreaching to the choirâ than actually converting anyone to a new view? And arenât good books, essays, histories, etc. etc. . . . better than any RT TV show in the first place?
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Well, I glanced at some of the ads, and they really didnt elicit any processing in my brain. I just kinda shrugged. But my point wasn’t that the ads didnt appear, my point was i havent seen proof or evidence that they were planted by Putin or the Russian government. I read an article the other day about how google/twitter/facebook arrived at their conclusion that something was russian, and their criteria was extremely weak.
But i just dont care about any of that. I really dont. Thats just me.
And the reason i dont care is because of how i view the American system now. I view it as a toxic, empire-stew of lies upon lies upon lies upon lies. From ‘public education’ to Advertising to Public Relations, to CIA-lies, NSA-lies, FBI-lies, ‘National-security’ lies, Defense Contractor lies, DNC-lies, Republican-lies, Economic-Lies…. I believe the biosphere (all life) is in danger by this Corporate-Empire-of-Lies.
So thats the context for me. This soul-less corporate-empire-of-lies is now all aflutter because RT is telling Americans that neoliberalism is destroying the biosphere and causing untold suffering — and I’m supposed to be upset about RT? Because its linked to Putin?
I watch RT everyday. Its the single best political website i know of on the internet.
Just my opinion đ
And yes, i know they dont dare critique Russia. Thats a separate subject to me.
As for your question about whether anyone actually listens to RT or absorbs their critiques….well….thats another separate subject. I am not optimistic that RT or ANY group is getting through to Americans. I think the Corporate-Empire has damaged most Americans too much now for anything to get through. But i dont wanna go there đ
I’m a curmudgeon now, BT. A Vonnegut-curmudgeon.
Carry on,
Go Rams
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wvParticipantIn general i think the info linked to russia is way more accurate and useful than the american-corporate-media stuff. When i compare the stuff Iâve read from RT and the stuff from usual suspects in the corporate media â Iâll take the RT stuff anyday.
Is it âdivisiveâ ? You bet. Is it targeted at oppressed groups? You bet.
Does it drive the powers that be up the wall ? Obviously. Iâve never seen anything like it. For the first time in my life, something is driving the powers-that-be crazy. I love it. Course its being shutdown.
w
vIn my view, thereâs a huge difference between sober, reflective, analytical shows on RT and those ads. Actually, a huge difference. The former does actual critique of American life, oftentimes zeroing in on things our MSM never touches. The latter, however, are blatantly all about pitting Americans against one another, stoking hatred between groups, and thatâs incredibly, obviously dangerous.
Also, when it comes to âtrust,â right off the bat, if youâre faking who you are â as in, pretending (for example) to be a BLM group when youâre not â no one should believe anything else youâre saying. If your message is valid, thereâs no need to set up a fake front out of a Russia bot farm to do it. Just be open about it and make your case.
Another key factor for me: RT doesnât do critiques of Russian society in Russia, for Russians, and Russia, internally, is actually even more right-wing, hierarchical, plutocratic and anti-democratic than we are. As bad as we are, theyâre actually a hell of a lot worse. The absence of Russian critique by RT is simply indefensible.
Itâs a bit like, say, the CIA going into Russia, setting up TV shows there that are highly critical of its society, broadcasting that to Russians, while never once saying anything whatsoever about America. Thatâs pretty much the dynamic in play.
But the bottom line (for me) is to remember those Russian ads, twitter bots, social media bots and their fake-news generation was never, ever in service of making America a better place. It was to sow the seeds of division and chaos, and the way they do it is to pit the most vulnerable Americans against one another. I see that as absolutely despicable and unforgivable.
Go after the powers that be all you want. Go after Clinton, the DNC, the GOP, American corporations, capitalism, etc. But whipping up violent hatred between groups on behalf of Putin is disgusting.
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Well first off I’ve not seen these ‘ads’. And i have to say, I dont trust Salon or facebook or google or twitter. I would need real EVIDENCE that these ads are
part of a Putin plot. So far all ive seen from the corporate-media is accusations.I also dont care if RT critiques russia in russia. I would not surprise me in the least if they dont. That to me, is irrelevant. What is relevant to ME, is this: Do they help the AMERICAN public see more clearly? And my answer to that is yes. Definitely. Who the hell else is talking about Zinn and Chomsky ideas on the American corporate media scene? CNN? No. FOX? No. NPR? No. PBS? No. NYTimes? No. Wash Post? No. ABC? No. NBC? No. CBS? No. Talk Radio? No.
RT is it. I dont see any other mega-mainstream-media-organization doing a marxist, radical, leftist critique.
I think RT is a godsend.
I am truly baffled at the opposing views about RT on this board. No big deal, but it does baffle me. Ah well.
Btw, just for the sake of argument, what is the Corporate-capitalist argument against all this “russian propaganda” ? I mean how is it supposed to help Putin? By doing what, exactly?
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vNovember 3, 2017 at 2:49 pm in reply to: October: China Mieville's book on the Russian Revolution is really good. #76843
wvParticipantI just ordered one of his books for a friend of mine:

I’ll get the October book when the used-book-price comes down a bit đ
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interview:https://www.believermag.com/issues/200504/?read=interview_mievilleBLVR: How does a self-described âactual, genuine Trotskyistâ connect with readers in a market where in our recent presidential election, our left candidate had to tap dance to prove he was sufficiently warmongering and religious?
CM: I think describing Kerry as âleftâ is sadly inaccurate. Well, youâve got to remember, Iâm not a leftist trying to smuggle in my evil message by the nefarious means of fantasy novels. Iâm a science fiction and fantasy geek. I love this stuff. And when I write my novels, Iâm not writing them to make political points. Iâm writing them because I passionately love monsters and the weird and horror stories and strange situations and surrealism, and what I want to do is communicate that. But, because I come at this with a political perspective, the world that Iâm creating is embedded with many of the concerns that I have. But I never let them get in the way of the monsters. Now that was slightly different with Iron Council, because I had the sense for some years that I wanted to write a third book that operates as a culmination, which was overtly political and precisely about my kind of politics in this world that Iâve created. So it was a book that was, if you like, deeply structured with politics, but that doesnât mean that itâs a manifesto, that doesnât mean that itâs an argument disguised as a novel, because even though those politics are central, I know that as a novelist I want to tell a story, and that means that I have to have characters that are engaging. Even if you donât agree with my politics or donât give a shit about them, the story has to be engaging. And thatâs the great thing about big, political radical movements. For instance, if you read about the Paris Commune, whether or not you agree with the position of the Communards, the Paris Commune is a tremendously exciting story. What I tried to do is write something which works as an exciting story but which treats the politics seriously. All of which is a long-winded way of saying Iâve never had any problems with the American market, because I donât think Iâm patronizing or condescending to readers or trying to convince them of a particular political line. Iâm trying to say Iâve invented this world that I think is really cool and I have these really big stories to tell in it and one of the ways that I find to make that interesting is to think about it politically. If you want to do that to, thatâs fantastic. But if not, isnât this a cool monster?
wvParticipantIn general i think the info linked to russia is way more accurate and useful than the american-corporate-media stuff. When i compare the stuff I’ve read from RT and the stuff from usual suspects in the corporate media — I’ll take the RT stuff anyday.
Is it ‘divisive’ ? You bet. Is it targeted at oppressed groups? You bet.
Does it drive the powers that be up the wall ? Obviously. I’ve never seen anything like it. For the first time in my life, something is driving the powers-that-be crazy. I love it. Course its being shutdown.
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wvParticipant
wvParticipantThis was interesting.
wvParticipant
wvParticipantMcCutcheon on the 79 Super Bowl team:
“..”Of course it haunts you â any time you go to the big dance, you want to win,” said McCutcheon, 65 and a scout for the Rams. “But when you put everything in perspective, we have nothing to hang our heads about.“That 1979 team was probably the least talented of the eight Rams teams I played on [from 1972-79]. But for some reason, we never gave up, we played hard, and good things happened.”
LA Times:http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-1979-la-rams-20160202-story.html
wvParticipantEver wonder what happened to D. Brock?
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LA Times:http://articles.latimes.com/1986-10-01/sports/sp-3669_1_year-forget-backA Defeat, a Death and an Injury Make 1986 a Very Bad Year for Dieter Brock
October 01, 1986|RICH ROBERTS“It’s been a year I’d like to forget,” Dieter Brock says.
First, there was the NFC title game at Chicago in January when he got the blame for the Rams’ 24-0 defeat.
Then, in training camp, his back went out.
Then, when he came back, he injured a knee, clearing the way for Steve Bartkowski to become the starting quarterback.
Then, his older brother, Bill, died suddenly in Birmingham, Ala.
The one constant factor has been the pain in his lower back, where, doctors say, a disk is slightly herniated.
“I haven’t been able to do anything,” Brock said Tuesday. “It’s been like this for over a year now. My back’s always stiff. It’s worse when I go out and throw, so I’m not even throwing now.”
The San Francisco 49er physicians recommended surgery for Joe Montana’s similar problem. The Rams’ doctors are recommending special exercises.
“(That’s) because I’m not getting any pain in my legs, like if you had a really badly herniated disk,” Brock said. “I hate to sound pessimistic, but I’ve done a lot of exercises throughout the off-season and they didn’t seem to do a hell of a lot of good. But I’ll continue with whatever they suggest. I feel like it’s getting worse, and I just can’t continue.”
He said he also hurt his shoulder last year.
“My back was killing me, but I felt like I had to get in there to show that I could play. I was so stiff in my hips that I was using all arm.
Brock thinks the Ram deal for Jim Everett last week was a good one.
“They got a guy with a lot of potential who should be their guy for the future,” he said. “Maybe the present, the way things are going.”
wvParticipantProhibition, the drug war, rehab, and the prison-industrial complex are the poisonous fruits of a greedy corpocracy that is rotting from the inside out, and the pace is accelerating.
Sobriety is killing me, I might even vote this month. That will show âem.
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wvParticipantâI always like toast in a crisis.â
â James Goss, Doctor Who: Dead Air
wvParticipant
wvParticipantRams first game in Anaheim was in 1980. They gave scarves away, apparently:
link:http://www.allsportsauctions.com/1980-Los-Angeles-Rams-Scarf-Give-Away-item-from-1s-LOT869.aspx

They did well that first year in Anaheim. Lost first two, and then won eleven games. Beat Joe Montana 48-26 and then 31-17.
wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Los_Angeles_Rams_seasonAtlanta won the division that year with twelve wins. The Bartkowski team.
Rams beat the Falcons in OT the final game.
Rams also trounced Dallas 38-14 late in the season….but then in the playoffs Dallas kilt em.w
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wvParticipantGiven that the US government (CIA) discusses False-Flag operations, how
are we (citizens) supposed to know when such events are actually carried out?How would we know?
I dont think ‘democracy’ and the CIA are compatible. I think you can either have one or the other.
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CIA:https://popularresistance.org/jfk-files-cia-plot-to-stage-miami-bombings-blame-fidel-castro/The CIA considered bombing Miami and other cities to create a terror threat while blaming the government of Cuban revolutionary leader Fidel Castro, according to the recently-published âJFK files.â
The files were published as part of the nearly 3,000 documents collected by the U.S. National Archive on the assassination of former President John F. Kennedy and several other issues.
The report said the Central Intelligence Agency, CIA, considered staging several terror events involving Cuban citizens to seek blame for Castroâs government.
âWe could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,â the files read. The plan also included a possible attack on migrants leaving Cuba to settle in the United States.
âWe could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized.â
The release of 2,891 previously classified files also shed a light on more aggressive tactics by the CIA, which included the placement of bombs and the creation of a terror environment.
âExploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of a Cuban agent and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government,â the files went on.
The report also mentions how the CIA tried to assassinate Castro through bodysuits filled with deadly bacteria and explosive seashells planted underwater, taking advantage of the Cuban leaderâs taste for diving.
âIt was known that Fidel Castro liked to skindive,â the reports said. âThe CIA plan was to dust the inside of the suit with a fungus producing madera foot, a disabling and chronic skin disease, and also contaminating the suit with tuberculosis bacilli in the breathing apparatus.â
Finally, the files revealed that after several allegations, investigations showed that the Cuban government wouldnât have been responsible for killing Kennedy âbecause such an act, if discovered, would have afforded the United States the excuse to destroy Cuba. The risk would not have been worth it.â
November 1, 2017 at 8:11 pm in reply to: Press sets up Giants game: Rams not been favored this much on road in 12 years #76765
wvParticipantThe mighty Tim Rattay had a 141 QB rating against the Rams in that SF game.
link:http://www.footballdb.com/games/boxscore.html?gid=2005091113
Bulger threw it 56 times.
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wvParticipantAt this point, I’d say:
1 Philly
2 New Orleans
3/4 Rams/Seahawks
5 Cowboys
6 Vikesstandings:http://www.nfl.com/standings
If I’m not mistaken the Rams play all them teams.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantOne add has already been released and especially on Twitter, there is a concerted movement to have ALL of them released.
As well, instead of the 270 Russian accounts, theyâve found over 2700 accounts and thatâs likely the tip of the iceberg.
There ARE ads specifically that were part of the Russian agenda (and theyâre pretty obvious if you even take a second to look).
As more get released, Iâll see if I can post them.
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Well first off, RT is having to register as a foreign agent now. Tell me what RT is doing that is evil ?
As for “adds” i dont know what you mean. If you can, in the future, post this “russian propaganda” that has the corporations so worried.
And then tell me why folks arent worried about Israeli influence in the American news-media and media in general.
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wvParticipantEverything youâve all said thus far is right except this: thereâs just not enough of us.
Thatâs just not true.
The two parties make up less than 53% of the electorate.
Of the remaining 47%, MOST agree with the progressive agenda and policies (and that Venn diagram overlaps almost 80% of Dems and over 50% of Reps)
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I used to believe things like that, Mack. Not anymore.
Whats your evidence that the remaining 47 percent is ‘progressive’ in any meaningful-informed way?
I just dont see it. At all. And my main argument is this — there are plenty of other progressive parties that 47 percent could vote for — they never do. Jill got, what, about two percent?
My own view is that the sytem has destroyed the electorate. Colonized their brains, with racism, sexism, jingoism, consumerism, apathy-ism, corporatism, nationalism, capitalist-religions, and just an overwhelming amount of ‘confusion-ism.’
The cavalry just aint comin, Mack. They are all at the mall.
Why do you still believe
in Americans,
Mack?w
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wvParticipantMack, my friend, you-crazy if you think Trump is going to resign OR be impeached.
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wvParticipantLos Angeles Rams lead series 26-17-0
10/23/2016 (London, England) L 17-10
12/21/2014 L 37-27
09/19/2011 L 28-16
09/14/2008 L 41-13
10/02/2005 L 44-24
09/07/2003 L 23-13
09/15/2002 L 26-2110/14/2001 W 15-14
11/12/2000 W 38-24
12/19/1999 W 31-10
09/21/1997 W 13-3
10/16/1994 W 17-10 …
wvParticipant$20 million airport, $10 control towerâŠ
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I dunno what that means, but i like it.
Giants vid, fwiw:
BigBlue:http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/On-The-Line-with-Dotts-and-Diehl/814bb386-a292-4172-b0ad-edac6e956e7f
wvParticipantinternet algorithms:https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/10/26/cowardly-new-world-alternative-media-under-attack-by-algorithms/
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wv rants…
All over NPR and the mainstream in general these days i keep hearing CEO’s from Facebook, Google and Twitter talk about how “russian propaganda” has infiltrated the internet and influenced the elections and how america is under attack from “russian propaganda”.Now, i have not heard them give concrete EXAMPLES of what they mean by “russian propaganda”. They never give examples. (other than hillary emails of course).
No, no examples. What they DO talk about in generalities is how the russians are “trying to cause divisions” among us. Trying to exacerbate discontent, that sort of thing.
Right.
Now when “I” listen to RT, all i ever hear is your basic, classic, leftist-chomsky/zinn critique of the american corporatocracy. Thats what i hear.
Apparently that is “russian propaganda.”
It infuriates me. Imho, RT is probably the single best political site available to joe and jane American.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantlink:http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-democrats-seek-rebuild-progressives-insist-purity.html
“…partisans on the left may argue that the presidency was lost because people who shared their ideological beliefs were insufficiently motivated by Clinton’s candidacy to turn out to vote. There may be some truth to that, but Brown warns that parties can seldom recover voters whose affections they’ve lost. “You have to go forward and start pushing into the opposing party’s base,” he says, “where they have started to ignore their supporters.”
This sounds like what the DNC believes in. I dont think its ‘strategy’ really, i think its what the ‘believe’ in. I think they just honestly ‘lean to the right’. The way Bill Clinton did. The way Hillary did. Thats what the DNC ‘is’.
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wvParticipantprogressives vs democrats:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-progressives-feel-unwelcome-democratic-party-article-1.3252755
This is a rather typical article written by a progressive. You can see lots of these kinds of articles on the net. And they complain about all the usual points about The Dems not being progressive and how the Dems are really just Rep-lites.
The thing is, what the articles dont talk about is how and why the Rep-lite-Dems got elected in their primaries in the first place. I mean the vast quantities of American Voters, VOTED for the DNC-Dems. The Thug-lites. They voted for em.
There aint enough of us, Zooey. For lots of reasons. And we’ve posted about those reasons for over a decade. But still, the bottom line is there aint enough people who think like us.
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wvParticipantBut it might get the attention of the DNCâŠalthough you would have thought they would have noticed what happened in 2016. Who knows?
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Well I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as “getting the attention” of the DNC. I think the DNC is what it is. They have corporate-souls just like hardcore-Republicans. I think they will always do exactly what they have always done. Because thats just who they are. Thats what they believe in.
There’s not enough of us, Zooey. There just aint.
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wvParticipantHow is case keenum doing in Minny?
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