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May 28, 2018 at 11:51 pm in reply to: Study reveals why Trumps voters support him. Hint: nothing to do w/ the economy #86716
wvParticipantWell, my own view is that it doesn’t make much sense to reduce an election down to one thing. It would be like reducing a football game down to one fumble or the last INT or somethin like that.
There’s more than one reason why Trump won and Hillary lost. I would be surprised if the rural female WV voters voted for Trump for the same reason the male country club Texans voted for him, etc and so forth.
Race is always a big factor though, aint it. Whether its Obama or Trump or whoever.
w
vMay 28, 2018 at 11:24 pm in reply to: Teams Will be Fined if Players Kneel During National Anthem #86715wvParticipantOne man’s view:
wvParticipantYou didn’t get Killmonger. It was a great movie. Killmonger was angry at the king of Wakanda for killing his dad, and wanted revenge. Since Killmonger was able to win the rule based on the fight, he wanted to be the almighty all powerful. But his sister, mother, and girlfriend brought him back to life, to get his rule back.
Wakanda forever
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Killmonger was Mr T. Black Panther’s sister was Q from 007.
w
vwvParticipantAll the best to BillyT and zooey.
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Absolutely.
We are all gettin old, aint we.
Btw, i had an esophagus issue a while back and my doctor said
i should bake it in the oven at 325 degrees for twenty minutes.w
vMay 27, 2018 at 5:44 pm in reply to: Teams Will be Fined if Players Kneel During National Anthem #86667wvParticipantAny words from Kroenke on this yet. He obviously voted for it.
I am at a point where I may be done with watching the games at all. I forget where I read it, but someone wrote that it used you be the American ideal to stand up to authoritarianism, and now we seem to allow for it and, in many cases, embrace it. All I can say is if this was my local restaurant behaving like this, I would stop going to my local restaurant. How is providing support to the NFL any different.
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Well, I hear ya, but there’s the Corporation-aspect of football and then there’s the football-aspect of football. Ya know.
The Corporate part of it has always been loathsome. I mean just look at the concussion issue and how it was handled by the money-people…
But the football aspect of it, is still fun to me. I can separate em.
w
vwvParticipant“….But he was all, Stalin and Mao!! And I was all, federated, community-based cooperatives,…
…I don’t know how to talk about this stuff to most folks. I try. But it doesn’t seem to work, even with my amazing analogies!!==================
Well, BT, I’ve noticed you are much more willing to engage with mainstreamers than I am. You debate with Dems online, etc.
Nuthin wrong with that. But i just rarely do it, anymore. I’ve tried for twenty years and it rarely leads anywhere. Thats been my experience.
Propaganda works. We just sound like crazy-people, BT. Ah well.
w
v
“Conventional people are roused to fury by departures from convention, largely because they regard such departures as a criticism of themselves. Bertrand Russell“…most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution.”
― Aldous Huxley, Brave New WorldwvParticipantHey, WV,
The above reads fine to me. But, unfortunately, it’s not how the folks on the right view the “deep state,”…
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Well that is part of her point. The righties use the term ‘their’ way. The Dems use the term as a synonym for “conspiracy” and thus dismiss any critique of “the whatever” — and She says she basically now just uses the term around critical thinkers….etc and so froth.
I only use the term in certain contexts. Like on this board where i have a chance to explore what i mean. Or might mean. Same with “corporotacracy”. I dont use that term in court 🙂
One aspect of my inner-life that has grown since i became a “leftist” iz…i have to spend more time thinking about what i can say, and when i can say it, and where i can say it, and where i cant say it, etc.
Ya know.
There’s only about three or four people here in Motown that i can use the term “deep state” with. Almost everyone else, i have to take my notions and…oh…”translate” them into “mainstream speech” if ya know what i mean. I try and find memes and notions that wont cause the Dem-Reps i’m surrounded by to melt-down. 🙂
Dont do any good to cause Rep-Dems to melt-down.
w
v
“There are people in the world all the time who know…But they keep quiet. They just move about quietly, saving the people who know they are in a trap. And then, for the ones who have got out, it’s like coming around from chloroform. They realize that all their lives they’ve been asleep and dreaming. And then it’s their turn to learn the rules and the timing. And they become the ones to live quietly in the world, just as human beings might if there were only a few human beings on a planet that had monkeys on it for inhabitants, but the monkeys had the possibility of learning to think like human beings. But in the poor sad monkeys’ damaged brains there’s a knowledge half-buried. they sometimes think that if they only knew how, if only they could remember properly, then they could get out of the trap, they could stop being zombies.”
…
Doris Lessing, Briefing for a Descent into HellwvParticipantI might see that if i get the chance. I’m not crazy about the religious aspect but still it might be inter esting.
wvParticipantIs the picture of Obama here, from the article “kindof racist” ?
No, I don’t, actually. Do you see any of the imagery that came with traditional american racist caricature there?
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Nah, not in that one. I think you are probly right about the first cartoon.
The cartoonist ruined his point with the caricature, though who knows if he meant to be anti-semitic.w
vwvParticipantI read that book back in college. Thought it was OK. Don’t remember much about it now. Pretty thin little volume, iirc.
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Berger was an interesting guy. He donated half the proceeds from one of his books to the Black Panthers.
wvParticipantThe image of the figure is clearly drawn from the history of anti-semitic caricature. If the intention wasn’t anti-semitic then the entire concept is sloppy and indefensible. Legit critics of israeli policies should always be aware enough of these things to avoid fueling “yer just anti-semitic” backlash. Otherwise, again, at the very minimum, you;re just being sloppy. At the worst…you’re actually being anti-semitic.
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I dunno. Probably. Maybe.
Is the picture of Obama here, from the article “kindof racist” ?
wvParticipantI can’t listen to the whole thing right now. Where does he discuss liberalism? Where I jumped in he discussing Hume and empiricism.
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Its set up to play the part on liberalism. Bout the 39 min mark.
w
vwvParticipantJeezus that’s a dark perspective.
But he gets a lot right from my view. I tend to worry more about America’s demise stemming from the increasing debt and costs associated with Social Security and Medicare when America doesn’t have a solid foundation of good jobs to support the country’s needs.
And Climate Change. What do we do when/if climate change presents more and more challenges?
On a different note, as I was driving to work behind a co-worker with a “Hillary for jail” & “Retired Coast Guard” I couldn’t help but think about something Gandhi said.
“Everywhere was are fought and millions of people are killed. The consequence is not the progress of a nation but its decline…Pride makes a victorious nation bad-tempered. It falls into luxurious ways of living. Then for a time, it may be conceded, peace prevails. But after a short while, it comes more and more to be realized that the seeds of war have not been destroyed but have become a thousand times more nourished and mighty. No country has ever become, or will ever become, happy through victory in war. A nation does not rise that way; it only falls further. In fact, what comes to it is defeat, not victory.”
I wonder how many military members are Trump supporters. Almost all of the people who are in the military really like trump.
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Dark view? Yes. Jeffers looked at humans and was purty disgusted. So he decided to not be so ‘human-centric’ and he widened his outlook. Purty common approach among mystics and misanthropes 🙂
He gave up humans and tried to experience the love of….the Universe. The ‘wholeness’. I try and do that too, when I’m in a misanthropic mood. Which I’m usually in these days.
…i keep thinking of Trump sitting in his office getting briefed from deep-staters (CIA/NSA). They tell him a ‘terrorist’ is in this or that building in the middle-east. (Not Europe of course) And Trump sends a drone-bomb to blow up the suspected terrorist (No trial, no jury, no due process). And of course ‘innocents’ are always killed too in the blast. Or maimed.
And we dont call that mass murder. Murder is legal in America as long as the President does it.
And Obama did it. And Bush. And Clinton. And on and on. (though they didnt have drones way back when and so they had to use CIA assassination, etc)
And so every week, while we have our coffee, that goes on.
Dark times. And its got nuthin to do with Trump.
w
v
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AnswerThen what is the answer?- Not to be deluded by dreams.
To know that great civilizations have broken down into violence,
and their tyrants come, many times before.
When open violence appears, to avoid it with honor or choose
the least ugly faction; these evils are essential.
To keep one’s own integrity, be merciful and uncorrupted
and not wish for evil; and not be duped
By dreams of universal justice or happiness. These dreams will
not be fulfilled.
To know this, and know that however ugly the parts appear
the whole remains beautiful. A severed hand
Is an ugly thing and man dissevered from the earth and stars
and his history… for contemplation or in fact…
Often appears atrociously ugly. Integrity is wholeness,
the greatest beauty is
Organic wholeness, the wholeness of life and things, the divine beauty
of the universe. Love that, not man
Apart from that, or else you will share man’s pitiful confusions,
or drown in despair when his days darken.
Robinson JefferswvParticipantYeah, its not a place leftists can chime in on subjects like the National Anthem, etc.
I think the admins interpret leftist views as “political” (which they are) but they dont view centrist or mainstream views AS political. They dont ‘see’ the politics in mainstream views. Ya know. So, if you “support the Troops” and “support the anthem” etc — thats not politics to them.
Of course it IS, but they dont see it. Like a fish doesnt see the water. Or somethin. Ya know.
How come James left the Herd btw? Do you know?
w
vwvParticipantAbout 10% of the population has a fairly reasonable grasp of what’s actually going on, and where we are headed.
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…..….There is absolutely nothing you can do about that..
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I dunno, but i think yer being optimistic. I think its less than ten percent.
As for what we can ‘do’ about it? I dunno that either. But I suggest we all find a…’grounding’ or an existential spark or a code or a spiritual center or…some fucking reason to have a cup of coffee in the morning. 🙂
Personally i tend to always drift back to Robinson Jeffers. He soothes me, for whatever reason.
w
v
“Nature knows that people are a tide that swells and in time will ebb, and all their works dissolve … As for us: We must uncenter our minds from ourselves. We must unhumanize our views a little and become confident as the rock and ocean that we are made from.”
― Robinson Jeffers
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——————–“As for me, I would rather be a worm in a wild apple than a son of man. But we are what we are, and we might remember not to hate any person, for all are vicious; And not to be astonished at any evil, all are deserved; And not to fear death; it is the only way to be cleansed.”
― Robinson Jeffers, Selected Poems
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————————–“Justice and mercy/ Are human dreams, they do not concern the birds nor the fish nor eternal God.”
― Robinson Jeffers
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“What is this thing called life? I believe
That the earth and the stars too, and the whole glittering universe, and rocks on the mountains have life,
Only we do not call it so–I speak of the life
That oxidizes fats and proteins and carbo-
Hydrates to live on, and from that chemical energy
Makes pleasure and pain, wonder, love, adoration, hatred and terror: how do these things grow
From a chemical reaction?
I think they were here already, I think the rocks
And the earth and the other planets, and the stars and the galaxies
have their various consciousness, all things are conscious;
But the nerves of an animal, the nerves and brain
Bring it to focus; the nerves and brain are like a burning-glass
To concentrate the heat and make it catch fire:
It seems to us martyrs hotter than the blazing hearth
From which it came. So we scream and laugh, clamorous animals
Born howling to die groaning: the old stones in the dooryard
Prefer silence; but those and all things have their own awareness,
As the cells of a man have; they feel and feed and influence each other, each unto all,
Like the cells of a man’s body making one being,
They make one being, one consciousness, one life, one God.”
― Robinson Jeffers, The Selected Poetry“Does it matter whether you hate yourself? At least love your eyes that can see, your mind that can hear the music, the thunder of the wings.”
― Robinson Jeffers
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“You have perhaps heard some false reports
On the subject of God. He is not dead; and he is not a fable. He is not mocked nor forgotten–
Successfully. God is a lion that comes in the night. God is a hawk gliding among the stars–
If all the stars and the earth, and the living flesh of the night that flows in between them, and whatever is beyond them
Were that one bird. He has a bloody beak and harsh talons, he pounces and tears–
And where is the German Reich? There also
Will be prodigious America and world-owning China. I say that all hopes and empires will die like yours;
Mankind will die, there will be no more fools; wisdom will die; the very stars will die;
One fierce life lasts.”
― Robinson Jeffers, The Selected Poetry
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———————“Never blame the man: his hard-pressed
Ancestors formed him: the other anthropoid apes were safe
In the great southern rain-forest and hardly changed
In a million years: but the race of man was made
By shock and agony…
… a wound was made in the brain
When life became too hard, and has never healed.
It is there that they learned trembling religion and blood-
sacrifice,
It is there that they learned to butcher beasts and to slaughter
men,
And hate the world.”
― Robinson JefferswvParticipantMay 23, 2018 at 7:20 pm in reply to: Teams Will be Fined if Players Kneel During National Anthem #86505wvParticipantJets taking a different approach:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23585906/new-york-jets-ceo-discourage-players-kneeling-nfl-new-anthem-policy
“…..Despite a unanimously approved league policy that requires players to stand if they’re on the field during the national anthem, New York Jets CEO Christopher Johnson said Wednesday he won’t discourage players from kneeling even if it results in the club being fined by the NFL.
“As I have in the past, I will support our players wherever we land as a team,” Johnson said in a statement, adding that he intends to meet with coach Todd Bowles and the players to discuss the league’s decision. “Our focus is not on imposing any club rules, fines or restrictions.”..see link
wvParticipantWell, Gurley, as a RB has the short life-span as a great player. So, Goff and Donald.
wvParticipantMay 22, 2018 at 11:14 pm in reply to: soul of an Octopus–“best of” old octopus posts + new octopus posts #86471wvParticipantThey came for our beer.
May 22, 2018 at 7:45 pm in reply to: soul of an Octopus–“best of” old octopus posts + new octopus posts #86434wvParticipantwvParticipantAnd again, that’s not a majority.
So it’s not “the public” in total.
You’re talking about groups and factions. Not a majority.
But its close and that’s what is so depressing to me-the number of people that make up these groups and or factions. I just never thought there were that many people willing to vote for someone like Trump. I was wrong.
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Think how I feel — I think its depressing the number of citizens who are willing to vote for Clinton/Obama OR Trump/Bush. Think about how dark things look to ME 🙂
Surfing in West Virginia, btw:https://www.facebook.com/lovingwv/videos/895885800616830/?hc_ref=ARScWcTsfEyq3bZeZ-LQVk_stVr0Q2T_UOJlsouMEFIsOtOQU4TUQr4i5vgXjnruhUE
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vwvParticipantthis one is good
wvParticipantAs ya all probly know my meta-theme this year is ‘lies’. The system is a lie-factory.
Thus, i smiled when i read the first line in this. I didnt read the article, btw.
How Democracy Ended
By Eric Zuesse
May 20, 2018 “Information Clearing House” –
What killed democracy was constant lying to the public, by politicians whose only way to win national public office is to represent the interests of the super-rich at the same time as the given politician publicly promises to represent the interests of the public — “and may the better liar win!” — it’s a lying-contest. When democracy degenerates into that, it becomes dictatorship by the richest, the people who can fund the most lying. Such a government is an aristocracy, no democracy at all, because the aristocracy rule, the public don’t. It’s the type of government that the French Revolution was against and overthrew; and it’s the type of government that the American Revolution was against and overthrew; but it has been restored in both countries.First here will be discussed France:…see link
wvParticipantYeah, i share the Hedges view. Its a dark view.
I hope we iz wrong.
Though, I seem to swing toward this weird dark-existentialist place where i root for an entire collapse of the human species. A die out. Let the biosphere recover without the human-virus, for a while. …did i just type that out-loud… o dear.
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vwvParticipantWhy cant we wipe out the evil nefarious stink bug.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantI assume trump has increased the number of manufacturing jobs. I assume that because if i were Trump I’d move heaven and hell to do THAT. Thats part of his base, but its the part that could go either way. A lot of those folks voted for Obama and they could easily switch sides.
When Trump got elected i assumed he’d increase the manufacturing jobs one way or another. Its the one thing he HAD to do. So, i agree with Cal that he did that and that his BASE will give him credit for that.
I imagine the Dems will run another corporate-dem and Trumps base will hold up and it will be another close election that could go either way.
Btw, if folks dont watch Fox news clips they are missing out on how good the Reps are at spinning things. Fox news is brilliant. Brilliantly evil.
w
vwvParticipantHedges on Trump’s Iran decision:
wvParticipantWe have relatives who are evangelical Christians who feel as your mom does. I don’t get it. IMO he’s the least Christian like President we have ever had. My only thought is that they like his position on abortion. At least his position today.
We really are not a very smart country.
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Yup.
Seems like his base is composed of at least four groups:
1 The white male working class folks who think the Dems shit on them.
2 The evangelical christian types who mainly care about abortion
3 The country-club Reps who want lower taxes for the rich
4 Racists.w
vwvParticipant
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This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by
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