Zooey wrote:

I don’t know how the gun lobby has succeeded in convincing so many people it isn’t the guns.
.

=======================

Well, i dont have the answers and i dont know all the various reasons so many americans want/need various kinds of guns. But i dont think i need to tell you, ‘part’ of the psychology here is simply – fear. Fear of ‘crime,’ fear of gangs, fear of rapists, fear of humiliation, fear of bullies, fear of crumbling american system, fear of government…

Some of those fears are kinda justified and some are wacko. There’s a spectrum of fear.

Many west virginians just do…not…trust…the government to make the call as to who gets guns and who doesnt. And they know that a gazillion guns are ALREADY on the street — so they want guns to protect themselves from the guns that are ALREADY out there. Its kindof a catch22 or 23 or somethin. If there werent so many guns out there, they wouldnt feel the need to have more guns themselves.

In WV they dont just want guns btw. They want bullet proof vests too. You see those a lot around here 🙂

w
v

Gun sales after the shooting.

sales:https://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/local/2018/02/21/increasing-ar-15-sales-lee-county-typical-after-high-profile-mass-shootings/360300002/

The AR-15 sat on the glass counter before being cradled in the arms of David Brady, a Cape Coral resident and retired law enforcement officer from El Paso, Texas.

Brady studied the rifle, the same classification of weapon used in the deaths of 17 teenaged students and teachers Feb. 14 at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland. After about 45 minutes of examining and discussing the rifle Tuesday at Guns 4 Less off Del Prado Boulevard in Cape Coral, Brady filled out the background check form, passed the background check phoned in by the store’s co-owner and then signed off on his credit card purchase. He planned on picking up the rifle the next day, although under Lee County law, he could have taken it home with him then and there.

In Lee County, gun buyers without a conceal and carry permit must wait three business days after passing a background check before taking home a handgun but zero days before bringing home a rifle. An AR-15 starts at $500 and runs up to $1,500-$2,000 for a higher end model.

More: Florida school shooting: U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson calls for more gun laws

More: Students report anti-gun protests at Naples High School and Barron Collier High School

The difference in the waiting period sounded crazy on the surface given the recent, high-profile shootings committed by the AR-15, said gun store co-owner Craig Scully, but it reflected reality.

“I’ve been wanting one for years,” said Brady, who had been around the weapons as a member of the El Paso County Sheriff Department, from which he retired in 2012. He and his wife now work in trucking. “Honestly, I think this last shooting pushed me to finally do it.”
Anecdotal evidence suggested gun sales soar immediately after high-profile shootings like Parkland, Oct. 1 in Las Vegas, June 12, 2016 at Pulse nightclub in Orlando and especially after Dec. 14, 2012 at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, where 20 children between ages 6 and 7 were killed.

The irony of Brady’s timing is that he bought his AR-15 as a reaction to the potential for gun laws changing – and that he favors some changes.

“I don’t know what the answer is,” Brady said. “The last two big shootings, Vegas and Florida, the guns were purchased legally. Maybe we have to start screening for mental health. We’ve got to do a better job of screening the people who have mental health issues before they can obtain weapons. There are a few things I would not be opposed to. I am not in favor of banning the weapons altogether, because that’s not a solution to the problem.”

More: Brent Batten: National debate will never be as simple as sons or guns

More: Florida school shooting survivors en route to talk guns, mental health with legislators

Scully, who has co-owned the store for six years, also wouldn’t be against gun law changes. But banning the AR-15 outright, he said, would be like banning SUVs in the crusade against drunk driving. It wouldn’t solve the problem. The store sells about 200 AR-15s per year, Scully said, but the vast majority of the store’s sales are handguns.

“I think it’s the most popular rifle in the country as far as sales go,” Scully said of the AR-15. “The bolt action guns have more recoil and are much more powerful. The AR-15, it’s much more comfortable to shoot.

“Any time people go on TV and start talking about gun control or banning this, banning that, what they’re really saying is, ‘Go out and buy one right away.’ It’s not like people are lining out the door, but we’ve sold a few extras in the past week.”

AR-15-style rifles have been used in multiple mass shootings in recent years, including the high school shooting in Parkland, Florida. See why. USA TODAY

At Shooters Guns & Ammo off Hanson Street in Fort Myers, store owner Cody Collins expressed his disgust with mainstream media outlets calling the AR-15 an “assault weapon.” He made a fist and said it could be considered an assault weapon if he threw a punch with it.

“The little weapon on my hip could be an assault weapon if I come after you with it,” Collins said. “If you don’t want one now, you will, because the world is getting nuttier and nuttier all the time.”

The AR in AR-15 stands for Armalite rifle, not “assault rifle.” It references a brand of gun but has come to mean a classification of the rifles with a common interface.

Collins, 67 and a 1971 graduate of Fort Myers High School, has owned the gun shop for about five years. He did not favor any gun law changes. He viewed guns as a sport like archery, throwing darts or baseball.

“There should be fewer laws on everything,” Collins said. “How’s anyone going to know when you snap? How is anyone going to know?”

Down the street at Wet Dreams Custom Shop, a consignment gun store, manager Phil Francisco, 31 and a 2004 Mariner High School graduate, said he would be in favor of some gun law changes. But he doubted Democrats and Republicans could compromise on anything in the current political climate.

“I’m not a legislator,” Francisco said. “Do I believe there is room for improvement? Yes. Both sides of the argument have valid points, and both sides of the argument are equally ridiculous as the other.”

More: Video of gun owner destroying AR-15 goes viral

More: Why the AR-15 keeps appearing at America’s deadliest mass shootings

More: What Florida law says about gun ownership

Politicians talking about enacting tougher gun laws could spur sales, he said, but they haven’t in the past week at his store.

“Obama was one of the best salesmen we’ve ever had,” Francisco said of the former president, who cut short a visit to Fort Myers on July 20, 2012, following a mass shooting in Aurora, Colorado during a midnight showing of “The Dark Knight Rises”. Twelve people were murdered and 70 injured. James Holmes was convicted of the crimes. He used an AR-15, a shotgun and at least one of two handguns.

“We don’t get a run on guns unless there’s going to be a perceived scarcity in the market,” Francisco said.

Increasing security at schools and improving background checks to search for mental illnesses are two favored forms of solutions to mass shootings from the gun store owners.

“Nobody, especially gun store owners, wants these in the wrong hands,” Scully said.

Connect with this reporter: David Dorsey (Facebook), @DavidADorsey (Twitter).

w
v

A quote I came across today, fwiw. When i see what the MSM/Goverment is doing these days regarding russia…this is the quote i think about:

“…Chomsky explored the laser-like focus many intellectuals had for the crimes of opposite states in his 1992 book Deterring Democracy. ‘Fame, Fortune and Respect await those who reveal the crimes of official enemies,’ he noted, while ‘those who undertake the vastly more important task of raising a mirror to their own societies can expect quite different treatment.’…”

zn wrote:

I think, instead, that there’s a type of hypocrisy that consists NOT acknowledging the Russia thing.

I am never guilt-tripped by the “we did it too” routine. Yeah I know, and I spent time in the 80s for example drawing attention to all that. Iran, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua….

I still abide by this take:

. https://www.salon.com/2015/04/06/we_should_recognize_that_there_are_other_imperialisms_a_marxist_dissident_explains_what_the_left_gets_wrong_about_russia/

For the American left, of course for them only American imperialism exists, yes? I can’t understand it. . . . In Russia, there are a lot of leftists who also believe that Russia is the main evil in the world, it’s a reactionary empire, and it should be destroyed. Or, at the same time, you have a lot of leftists who believe somehow Russia is resisting American imperialism [and] who support these “republics” in the East of Ukraine.

But you have a huge provincialization of the left as a whole because they can’t even understand each other and every leftist community, they believe in their own national reality. And that’s why they can be so easily manipulated.

=============

Well, I’m glad you are not “guilt tripped” but i dont know anyone who is trying to “guilt trip” you. I mean this has zero to do with ‘guilt tripping’. Thats the kind of thing “X” said when we brought up racism and stuff.

Its not about “guilt tripping” — its about hypocrisy. (not ‘yours) The hypocrisy of the MSM and the US Government. There is a concerted, conscious Media-Blitzkrieg going on over the ‘russian interference’. And not a peep about the billions and billions spent by the US to interfere in a gazillion nations politix.

Its possibly the biggest hypocrisy-fest Ive ever seen in my life.

So, its not about ‘individual posters guilt’. Its about MSM/government MASSIVE hypocrisy.

w
v

Russiagate or Deep State?
By John Feffer
Source: Foreign Policy in Focus
Znet:https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/russiagate-or-deep-state/
———————

This is an interesting article. I did not agree with the author but he lists a lot of the russia-gate skeptics and tries to sum up their arguments. I especially didnt agree with the way he handled this part of his argument:

“…Then there’s the argument that Russia wasn’t doing anything that the United States hadn’t done over the years. It’s certainly true that the United States has engaged in such conduct. So? It has also been involved in the assassination of foreign figures. Would that justify another country taking out the U.S. president? Do U.S. regime-change efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq justify another power taking over Washington DC and setting up a puppet government?

Finally, let’s talk about the so-called Deep State….”

I think that just totally minimizes what the US has done. I dont think a simple “So?” really works there. I could go on… 🙂

w
v

Noam on russia-gate. I agree with his view. He brings in the critical context.
Yeltsin for example.