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November 20, 2019 at 6:22 pm in reply to: Obama warns democrats about moving too far to the left #108439
wvParticipantAdolph Reed Jr on the Obama-Centrist statement. (Nice to see Adolph Reed get some air time for a change.)
wvParticipantI’ve been fascinated by some of the Vids i watched today, on Kap and the NFL.
Some of the comments by some of the black commentators were interesting/infuriating/thot-provoking.
A couple of black pundits said they thot Kap started out with good intentions but has since made it more about his ‘brand.’ I see the word ‘brand’ being tossed around more and more by tv-pundits. ‘Brand’ and ‘Optics.’ Fascinating.
There’s also some talk among the black commentators about Kap and ‘street cred.’
Some of them seem to think he plays a ‘street cred card’ as opposed to ‘i wanna actually play’ mentality.Some of them think he never really gave any of this all that much thought at first. It just all mushroomed and he got caught up in something.
At any rate, at this point if he just shuts up and says all the right things — some team would grab him, i think. But then if he did that, he would be selling out his core-following or the movement or whatever one wants to call it.
He’s kinda trapped at this point. The NFL wins, in a way.
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vNovember 20, 2019 at 5:09 pm in reply to: Obama warns democrats about moving too far to the left #108436
wvParticipantI dunno. I hear what you leftists are saying, but I have no idea. I often think Waterfield/Obama is right in his political-algebra. It saddens me, and infuriates me, but I often think the ‘centrists’ are right. (no pun intended)
I think that simply because they keep voting year after year after year for…ya know. Year after year. No-one twisted their arms to vote for Hillary instead of Bernie last time. Bernie had plenty of momentum — and they voted for Hillary.
Its that way time after time after time. George McGovern. Eugene McCarthy. Etc. Sad, but true. American brains appear to be a vast wasteland.The voters may very well be so brain-dead-propagandized-colonized-DeepStated at this point that they wont vote for a wacko wild-crazy-off-the-charts-leftist-commie-socialist-tree-huggin-whale-saving-pinko-Stalinist like…uh…Bernie.
Seriously, the nation may be too far down the drain to vote for anyone to the left of the System.
I have no faith in American voters anymore. Too stupid, they are. Not their fault, but they are what they are now.
We’ll see, I guess. I dunno.
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vAfter reading the above it would appear that you think both Obama and I are “brain dead”, “stupid”, and generally in an intellectual “wasteland”. I must admit that those descriptions may well fit me but I question their application to Obama.
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Well yes, of course, i often do indeed think that. But another way of putting it is, I think centrist-capitalists are just ‘wrong.’
But I also am pretty-damn-sure you think exactly the same way about me and the ‘leftists’ around here. I mean you’ve prettymuch said it flat-out before.
And it used to set me off, as you know. Italian-temper and all.But now, i dont mind, as you have probly picked up on over the last year or so.
I cant dislike a dog-loving-good-hearted-OffensiveLine-Loving-surfer. Political separation doesn’t blind me to everything I like about you, W.w
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wvParticipantSteve Rebeiro@steverebeiro
Have a lot of respect for the Rams organization that we know virtually nothing about what’s going on with Woods. Personal issues should stay personal. Kudos to them for respecting that==============================
Agree.
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wvParticipantIn terms of Goff, I don’t care about the early INT, he bounced back from that. He was pressing early but settled down. To me it’s important that he was clutch at the end. To me, being clutch when it counts weighs heavily. And he found his long ball again.
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Well like I’ve said before, I think Goff is “good enough” to win a ring, if he has a ringworthy team around him. I’m not concerned about Goff. As soon as I figured out that the OLine wasnt gonna work and Gurley wasnt Gurley anymore, I figured Goff would “regress.”
As Waterfield likes to point out, everything starts with an OLine.
If these two new OLine players prove to be good, Goff will regain his rhythm. But its way too soon for me to say the two new guys are good. One good game where they didnt have to pass block much, dont prove much.
One thing I will complain about with Goff, is, his footwork has disappointed me. In his college vids, his footwork amazed me. He had this little dance he did in the pocket and he was very accurate on the move EVEN UNDER PRESSURE. It seemed a special talent. This year and late last year, his footwork has just seemed kinda average to me. Nothing special. I’m not sure what, if anything, to make of that.
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wvParticipantPeople say organic cant feed the world…but:
November 19, 2019 at 8:57 pm in reply to: Obama warns democrats about moving too far to the left #108405
wvParticipant
wvParticipantDid Feminism help Corporate-Food-industry create nutrition-wastelands?
I started this at the nine min mark:
wvParticipantI watched it. Geez, what an Ugly second half. Scrappy effort though, seein as how they were without Woods and Cooks.
Course maybe if both WR’s had been in the game, McVay would have tried to pass 50 times, and Goff woulda gotten strip-sacked. Being forced to pound Gurley maybe saved the day. I dunno.
Its nice having Clay Matthews back. The Defense is fun to watch.
And I expect the D to keep them in the game for a while next week. But i figure the Ravens will blow them out in the second half. Coz I dont expect the offense to do much of anything.w
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wvParticipantThere’s a shitload of anti nordic-model articles out there, by all the usual rightwing mags. Whatever the nordic-model is, it scares rightwingers.
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=======================Jacobin on Scandanavia:https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/08/national-review-williamson-bernie-sanders-sweden/
What Makes Scandinavia Different?
By Andreas Møller Mulvad and Rune Møller Stahl
What accounts for the Nordic countries’ strong welfare states? Hint: it’s not white homogeneity.
There’s a reason the Scandinavian welfare states are still the envy of many across the world. Even decades into a neoliberal project to reform them, Scandinavia sports relatively high income equality, large, tax-financed welfare programs, powerful unions, and relatively low unemployment rates.
Neoliberal textbooks tell us that the only way to societal prosperity is through low tax rates, deregulated business, and cut-throat competitive labor markets. Yet despite failing to meet the metrics of the Anglo-American variety of capitalism, Scandinavian countries stubbornly continue to prosper, and regularly come out on top of the global indexes of happiness and quality of life.
It is no surprise, therefore, to find neoliberals and conservatives devoting considerable intellectual energy to delegitimizing the “Nordic Model” of public welfare.
Earlier this year, the Institute of Economic Affairs, a British neoliberal think tank, devoted an entire book to Scandinavian “unexceptionalism.” The aim was to explain away the success story of the Nordic welfare states, arguing in classical Hayekian fashion that the success of the Nordic countries predates the era of public welfare, and that anything exceptional and successful about it has vanished since then.
Meanwhile in the US, where the Bernie Sanders campaign has thrown ideas of Nordic social democracy into the political mainstream, National Review’s Kevin Williamson has adopted the opposite strategy. In a couple of recent pieces he acknowledges the continuing exceptionalism of the Nordic experience and admits that the Nordic countries have indeed been relatively successful until very recently.
But in a strange plot twist Williamson also racializes the Nordic experience, tying the success of social-democratic policies to the alleged whiteness and homogeneity of the Nordic countries, thus undermining its credibility as a source of inspiration for American progressives committed to antiracism.
The “Nordic Consensus”In a National Review piece published in early July, Williamson calls Sanders a “national socialist” and denounces his use of “Us and Them” rhetoric as un-Scandinavian.
Williamson construes Sanders’s willingness to highlight conflicts of interest in popular power as being supposedly the “polar opposite” of how politics is done in Scandinavia — where politics is “consensus-driven” — and that where this “conformity” constitutes a “stabilizing and moderating force in politics, allowing for the emergence of a subtle and sophisticated and remarkably broad social agreement that contains political disputes.”
Scandinavian politics is much less partisan and more coalition-prone than in the US, with proportional representation effectively denying any one party an absolute parliamentary majority. But we should not mistake a contingent twentieth-century historical conjuncture of relative political civility for a supra-historical essence of Nordic political culture.
Today the universal welfare state and regulated, egalitarian labor markets, are so popular among voters that even liberal or conservative politicians wanting to dismantle them have to run as defenders of public welfare if they wish to avoid electoral suicide. But this situation did not emerge from the mists of history. It is the product of decades of struggles from organized labor and other popular movements throughout the twentieth century.
The social-democratic welfare state has faced strong historical challenges — both from the Left, by strong communist and new left movements, and from the Right, by organized business, such as the powerful Swedish employer organization SAF, and by Tea Party-like anti-taxation movements, which appeared in the 1970s in Norway and Denmark.
Simply put, the “Nordic Consensus” has never been as comprehensive as Williamson would have us believe…..see link…
wvParticipantFwiw, I ordered these two books.
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The Nordic Theory of Everything: In Search of a Better Life
by Anu PartanenThe Nordic Model: Scandinavia since 1945
by Mary Hilson
——————If nothing else, perhaps I will learn why Bud Grant always seemed to have a cold twinkle in his icy eyes. I’m guessing he was a white-walker.
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wvParticipantHaven’t seen it yet. How was this game different from the Steeler game? I mean, other than the final score.
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wvParticipantThe Omnivore’s Dilemma is a great book.
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Pollan is in the pantheon. Along with Gould. I dunno who else. Its a peculiar pantheon.
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wvParticipantPS — well, i guess he did write a little about Epstein, too:
wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Farrow
Wikipedia
Satchel Ronan O’Sullivan Farrow (born December 19, 1987) is an American journalist. Farrow is the son of actress Mia Farrow and filmmaker Woody Allen.In late 2017, Farrow’s articles in The New Yorker helped uncover the Harvey Weinstein sexual abuse allegations. For this reporting, The New Yorker won the 2018 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service, sharing the award with The New York Times. His subsequent investigations exposed similar allegations against Eric Schneiderman and Les Moonves, which led to the resignations of both in 2018. Farrow also investigated the concealment by the MIT Media Lab of its involvement with Jeffrey Epstein, leading to the resignation of the director of the Media Lab, Joi Ito, and an internal investigation by MIT [1]
wvParticipantThat’s truly admirable. You walk the walk. Major kudos, WV.
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Thanks BT, but there’s no honor in it, trust me. I think I was always a bit of an oddball. Never-fit-in. Outsider. Alienated. Nerdy. You know the type.
I could never have worked in respectable corporate situation. I dont think it was a ‘choice.’ I just kinda organically ended up where i fit in, with the riff-raff.If I’d had more ambition, i coulda been the Joker.
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vHow’s wv_ewe, btw? She’s not regretting her decision to leave us all behind, it appears. Too bad. She was a good egg.
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She’s good, Zooey. Lives in Cincy, still. She’s moved further to the left over the years though, she’d never admit it. Not quite a ‘leftist’ but in the grey-zone tween liberal and leftist.
Her thing is butterflies, now. Saving the Monarchs.
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wvParticipantThat’s truly admirable. You walk the walk. Major kudos, WV.
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Thanks BT, but there’s no honor in it, trust me. I think I was always a bit of an oddball. Never-fit-in. Outsider. Alienated. Nerdy. You know the type.
I could never have worked in respectable corporate situation. I dont think it was a ‘choice.’ I just kinda organically ended up where i fit in, with the riff-raff.If I’d had more ambition, i coulda been the Joker.
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vNovember 17, 2019 at 2:43 pm in reply to: Obama warns democrats about moving too far to the left #108254
wvParticipantI dunno. I hear what you leftists are saying, but I have no idea. I often think Waterfield/Obama is right in his political-algebra. It saddens me, and infuriates me, but I often think the ‘centrists’ are right. (no pun intended)
I think that simply because they keep voting year after year after year for…ya know. Year after year. No-one twisted their arms to vote for Hillary instead of Bernie last time. Bernie had plenty of momentum — and they voted for Hillary.
Its that way time after time after time. George McGovern. Eugene McCarthy. Etc. Sad, but true. American brains appear to be a vast wasteland.The voters may very well be so brain-dead-propagandized-colonized-DeepStated at this point that they wont vote for a wacko wild-crazy-off-the-charts-leftist-commie-socialist-tree-huggin-whale-saving-pinko-Stalinist like…uh…Bernie.
Seriously, the nation may be too far down the drain to vote for anyone to the left of the System.
I have no faith in American voters anymore. Too stupid, they are. Not their fault, but they are what they are now.
We’ll see, I guess. I dunno.
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wvParticipant….The polls show a close race right now, with Biden, Sanders, or Warren all beating Trump by a slim percentage. Just as polls had Clinton favored by a slim percentage…
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Just a little sidebar, fwiw — In the Taibbi/Rogan podcast I posted, Taibbi mentions that the MSM did indeed have some polls/info that the race would be much closer than the published-polls were showing. Taibbi said the MSM suppressed that info because they thought it might hurt Hillary’s chances.
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wvParticipantWell, I only have experience with how Judges treat poor people. 🙂
And poor people usually dont get to remain free pending sentencing.
But it does happen sometimes. Totally up to the Judges discretion. Judges often weigh lots of factors. Same factors they look at to set bail in the first place. Likelihood of flight, likelihood of violence, previous record, roots in the community, etc, etc.
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wvParticipantHis lie count in his first 1000 days was more than 13,000.
That’s not a misprint. More than 13,000. No president has ever come within light years….
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Well, see, I dunno about that. Sure, Trump tells these surreal lies (and I agree with zooey about the narcissism thing), but isn’t it true Obama/Clinton told just as many lies? I mean every single day Obama/Clinton were conducting their CIA/NSA-bloody policies, they were lying to the American people. The CIA is based on Lies. People dont think of it that way, because its all been normalized.
I just think the American Corporate-Government “IS” a Lie, at this point. Look at all the Coups, and interference by the US-CIA-Government. Was Obama/Clinton truly ‘honest’ about any of it? No. Because they internalized the notion that when “we” do it, its for the good of the world. The Dem/Reps have supported every kind of death squad you can think of. They’ve murdered all kinds of socialists all over the globe. Are they ever honest about any of it? No.
So all these ‘lie counters’ i see all the time seem silly to me. They only count a certain kind of lie. But there’s all kinds of lies.
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wvParticipantI got absolutely nuthin against Kurt, but I have to say, I never like it when he does that (Ie, tell the truth about his feelings 🙂 )
It would be very very easy for him to say “I love both organizations” and just leave it at that. But he always has to go and tell the truth.
It annoys me.
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wvParticipantI think Pouncey got a three game suspension. I’d have just given him a one game suspension.
I know the NFL wanted to send a message to Garrett and all players, and they did, and I dont have a problem with it…but I’d probly have only given him three games plus some sorta probation.
I’m old-school though. I saw worse than that glancing-blow, on a weekly basis back in the 70s. Deacon Jones once twisted and tore Sonny Jurgenson’s head off, and then beat the QB with the decapitated HEAD.
And as I recall there was no fine at all.
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wvParticipantYeah, I ordered a couple of grandin’s books because you talked about him.
But i got Fordlandia, and Empire’s Workshop.Btw, is it fair to say, Donald Trump just sets you off in some way that no other national american politician has, in the last 40 years or so?
We both agree he’s a monster but I just get the impression with you, its the fact that he’s a lying-weasel-monster AND its also personal somehow. Yes? No?
For whatever reason, the thing that sets me off ’emotionally’ is probly…liberal-capitalist-Dems. They make me crazy. I am able to control myself around them, but if they ever heard my internal dialogue….
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wvParticipantWell, I’d like to see Scientists study why Democrat-voters are ok with voting for murderous Imperialists, election after election.
Wonder why no American Scientists wonder about ‘that’ ?
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vThe thing is, WV, Trump’s lies are in addition to those you mention. They don’t replace them, lie for lie. He’s actually piling on new ones on top of the old imperialism, empire, murder, environmental devastation lies. And his deeds are in addition to the status quo actions linked to those lies.
It would be an entirely different situation, requiring an entirely different response, if Trump did his usual lies while reversing the old order, while fighting for the poor, ramping down empire, saving the environment, etc. etc.
He’s actually made things far worse on the status quo issues like war, peace, incarceration, corporate control of society, inequality, health care, the earth . . . and on and on.
In addition to; not in replacement of.
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Ariely had a really interesting study years ago about Americans’ view of inequality. He showed how large majorities aren’t aware how bad things are here, and actually think we’re more like Sweden in our levels. In blind tests, they consistently chose Swedish levels of inequality as the ideal, too. Of course, Americans wouldn’t pick Sweden if they knew the country’s name beforehand. They’d choose to good old US of A.
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Well, ‘my’ thing (and Hedges, Dore, etc) is that Trump GETS a ton of criticism. I mean the Dem-MSM has never been this apoplectic about a President before. So I dont think Trump is getting a pass or anything close to it.
But. As you know, Obama/Clinton/Gore/Biden/Edwards-types do indeed get a pass on their murderous Imperialism, from ‘scientists’ and the Dem-MSM. I mean its not even in the Dem-MSM’s consciousness. The word America and Imperialism would never be uttered by a dem-MSM-type. Not only wouldnt it be uttered, it wouldnt be thought-of.
So, as per usual, I get set-off by criticism of just one party or one prez. Itz just how I’m wired. Getting rid of Trump (or Obama, or Reagan, or Nixon, or whoever) wont do much. It just wont. The entire system is too far gone at this point. As you well, know.
So what would make wv happy? 🙂 If ‘scientists’ and the MSM would talk about the SYSTEM of IMPERIALISM and corporate-power that is destroying the biosphere.
The Dem-MSM focusses on Trump, trump, trump. Fox focuses on Obama/clinton, obama/clinton, obama/clinton. Both approaches hide the problem. Neither will lead to anything good.
Obama droned innocent people to death. Blew them to pieces. Trump does the same.
What is ‘underneath’ them both. Let scientists study ‘that’.w
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wvParticipantWell, I’d like to see Scientists study why Democrat-voters are ok with voting for murderous Imperialists, election after election.
Wonder why no American Scientists wonder about ‘that’ ?
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wvParticipantBtw, J.Dore and Tulsi:
wvParticipant… I’ve said repeatedly that I think the US is guilty of much worse overall. As in, more of it, more often, over more time, and to worse effect.
My thing is that if an American chases after, exploits, willingly receives foreign help, he or she needs to be held to account. The real issue is on the American side, for me, not the Russian.
It’s one of those “givens” that no nation should be doing this shhht. But it’s also a given that empires and nation-states always have. So until we can put a stop to the practice, we should focus on holding to account . . . individuals, groups and parties that willingly take advantage of that geopolitical chess for their own ends.
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Yes. Agreed. And i think Hedges would basically agree
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wvParticipantWell, my own interpretation of Hedge’s words (and dore)is simply that the fact that Trump is a monster is a ‘given.’ He doesnt go on and on about it for the same reason i dont. There’s two reasons really, (1) Its just a given. Its obvious. Yes, yes, yes, he’s a monster. But its obvious and a given and understood. Among Leftists. Hedges is a Leftist, Anti-Capitalist. (2) Going on about Trump can be misunderstood as support for the Dems, the Capitalist-Libs, the DNC, etc.
For example, Hedges said flat out, Trump should/could have been impeached within the first six months of his term, for all kinds of reasons. I mean, thats hardly ‘carry water for trump.’ He said he should/could have been impeached LONG AGO. He didnt go on about it though. No need. Its a given. Understood. Trump is a monster. (But then so is the CIA. One monster fighting the other, at times.)
I, personally, moi, just dont see much difference between what you think and what Hedges/Dore thinks. The only difference i see is the Russia thing. You think the interference was “significant” and Hedges/Dore/Noam/wv thinks it was minor and “relatively insignificant” (especially compared with the US interference all over the world.)
So, we just interpret Hedges differently.
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wvParticipantBolivia November 13, 2019
Top Bolivian coup plotters trained by US military’s School of the Americas, served as attachés in FBI police programsCommanders of Bolivia’s military and police helped plot the coup and guaranteed its success. Before they were educated for insurrection through the US military’s notorious School of the Americas and FBI training programs.
By Jeb SpragueThe United States played a key role in the military coup in Bolivia, and in a direct way that has scarcely been acknowledged in accounts of the events that forced the country’s elected president, Evo Morales, to resign on November 10.
Just prior to Morales’ resignation, the commander of Bolivia’s armed forces Williams Kaliman “suggested” that the president step down. A day earlier, sectors of the country’s police force had rebelled.
Though Kaliman appears to have feigned loyalty to Morales over the years, his true colors showed as soon as the moment of opportunity arrived. He was not only an actor in the coup, he had his own history in Washington, where he had briefly served as the military attaché of Bolivia’s embassy in the US capital.
Kaliman sat at the top of a military and police command structure that has been substantially cultivated by the US through WHINSEC, the military training school in Fort Benning, Georgia known in the past as the School of the Americas. Kaliman himself attended a course called “Comando y Estado Mayor” at the SOA in 2003.
At least six of the key coup plotters are alumni of the infamous School of the Americas, while Kaliman and another figure served in the past as Bolivia’s military and police attachés in Washington….see link…
wvParticipantOf the above list my favs are…
Tetrapod Zoology
The Skeptics Guide to the Universe
Monster Talk
You’re Wrong About
Stuff You Should Know
You Must Remember This
This Podcast Will Kill YouYou Must Remember This did a 5 or 6 part series on The Manson Murders. You might ask why would a podcast about Hollywood do a docu-series on Charles Manson and his family? Well, it’s because of the connection to Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski. I’ve always been fascinated by the Manson family and I have to say that docu-series is the best on the subject that I’ve ever seen or heard.
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I bought this book. I had zero interest in the Manson case, but this intrigued me. I know the title makes it look all ‘over-the-top’ and stupid, but I think it might be good. I dunno. (there are suggestions Manson might have had weird connections to CIA experiments, btw. And yes, i know how ridiculous that sounds.)
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