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  • in reply to: Chloroquine, other approaches #113785
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    LAtimes:https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-17/malaria-drugs-fails-to-help-coronavirus-patients-in-controlled-studies
    Malaria drugs fail to help coronavirus patients in controlled studies

    By Melissa HealyStaff Writer
    April 17, 2020
    3:08 PM

    The malaria drugs touted by President Trump as potentially “the biggest game changers in the history of medicine” have received a decidedly more sober assessment of their coronavirus-fighting potential from researchers in China, France and Brazil.

    Both chloroquine and its close relative hydroxychloroquine offered signs that they may ease some of the hallmark symptoms of coronavirus infection in patients who were hospitalized with COVID-19. But the drugs largely failed to deliver improvements on other key measures when evaluated in rigorous research studies.

    In research done in France, hydroxychloroquine reduced neither deaths nor admissions to intensive care units among patients who received it. In a study conducted in China and another in Brazil, the two drugs failed to help patients clear the coronavirus faster.

    And in Brazil, two deaths and a rash of heart troubles among patients who got a high dose of chloroquine prompted a hasty alteration of the trial there after just 13 days. Concluding that “enough red flags” had been raised, the researchers halted testing of the drug in its extra-strength form.

    “My own impression so far is that these medications are a colossal ‘Maybe,’” said Dr. Michael H. Pillinger, a professor of medicine at New York University and chief of rheumatology at the Veterans Affairs’ New York Harbor Healthcare System.

    “Is there enough possible benefit that we could use these on a wing and prayer until something better comes along? I’m underwhelmed” by the evidence for that, Pillinger said.

    In the Brazil study, two of the 37 patients who were getting high doses of chloroquine developed ventricular tachycardia, a dangerous heart arrhythmia that led to their deaths. Five other patients in this arm of the trial developed QT interval prolongation, a condition that makes the heart’s electrical system slower to recharge between beats. It can cause the heart to beat erratically, also raising the risk of sudden death.

    The death toll among patients who were randomly assigned to receive high-dose chloroquine did not rise above that in a comparison group of patients who did not get the drug. But researchers had set out to establish that high-dose chloroquine would save lives. When it failed to do so, they concluded the risks of cardiac side effects could not be justified.

    “Preliminary findings suggest that the higher chloroquine dosage should not be recommended for COVID-19 treatment because of its potential safety hazards,” the study authors wrote in a report posted Thursday to MedRxiv, a clearinghouse for preliminary research results.

    After the two deaths, the remaining 39 patients were switched to a lower dose of chloroquine, which was already being tested in 40 other patients. All would be tracked for an additional 13 days, with results still to come.

    Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro has allied himself closely with President Trump and has echoed his extravagant claims about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine. He has ordered the Brazilian army to ramp up its orders of chloroquine and told the public that the malaria drugs “could go down in history as having saved thousands of lives in Brazil.”

    The authors of the Brazil study, which was conducted in the Amazonian city of Manaus, suggested that Bolsonaro’s support complicated their efforts to test the drugs as rigorously as they would have liked.

    Normally, they would have conducted a head-to-head comparison by randomly assigning some people to get the drugs while others received a dummy pill, or placebo. But since the drugs have been “recommended at the national level,” the researchers were unable to assign anyone to a group that would not get chloroquine. Instead, they used “historical data from the literature to infer comparisons.”

    The French study of hydroxychloroquine, posted Tuesday to MedRxiv, followed a more conventional design. Researchers there enrolled 181 COVID-19 patients who were admitted to four French hospitals over the last two weeks of March, then compared the outcomes of 84 people who quickly received hydroxychloroquine to 91 patients who never received the drug. (Patients in both groups got a range of other treatments, including antiviral medications, corticosteroids and breathing support.)

    The researchers found that treatment with hydroxychloroquine did not reduce the likelihood that a COVID-19 patient would die or be admitted to the intensive care unit within a week of hospital admission. Nor did it drive down a patient’s likelihood of developing serious breathing problems.

    Hydroxychloroquine did, however, raise some risks. Eight of the 84 patients who got hydroxychloroquine experienced changes in heart rhythm that required discontinuation of the drug, and another patient developed a related heart-rhythm disorder.

    “The negative clinical results of this study argue against the widespread use of hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia,” the French researchers concluded.

    Chinese researchers were just a bit more encouraging.

    Their study, also posted to MedRxiv on Tuesday, found that COVID-19 patients who got hydroxychloroquine were no better at clearing the coronavirus from their systems than patients who didn’t get the drug. And at the 28-day mark, patients in both groups had the same number of symptoms.

    But two weeks after admission to the hospital, patients who got hydroxychloroquine reported they felt better than their counterparts who did not. And they appeared to have lower levels of inflammation — a symptom of COVID-19 that can escalate and lead to death if unchecked. (In fact, in doses much lower than those tested in the COVID-19 trials, hydroxychloroquine is used to treat autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis because of its anti-inflammatory effects.)

    Also, while 30% of the patients who got hydroxychloroquine reported a side effect, just 9% of patients in the comparison group did so. None of these side effects appeared to be heart-related.

    The Chinese researchers referred to “shreds of evidence” that support the hope that hydroxychloroquine could help patients fend off bouts of inflammation that can damage the lungs and other organs.

    But researchers in the United States cautioned that the small number of patients in the studies, their hurried execution and the difficulty of assessing any drug during a medical crisis made all of the findings far from definitive. And it doesn’t help that the drugs have become political footballs, they added.

    “We kind of have the red pill people and the blue pill people,” said Dr. Michael J. Ackerman, a Mayo Clinic cardiologist who was among the first to warn that the malaria drugs can dangerously disturb heart rhythms. “I don’t think either side now has the ammunition to say these drugs do or don’t work,” he added.

    Yale University cardiologist Harlan Krumholz agreed. He noted that the studies, none of which has been vetted in a traditional peer-review process, “can’t exclude large effects in either direction. They leave us a little bit where we started.”

    But there is a troubling signal in these and previous studies, and they create a challenge for those who would advocate use of the malaria drugs, he said.

    When a drug that could be widely used poses potentially deadly dangers to the heart, “we will need a strong amount of evidence that they provide benefit,” Krumholz said. “At the moment, there is no evidence” for that, he added.

    in reply to: Sanders: Not supporting Biden is irresponsible #113775
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    in reply to: Sanders: Not supporting Biden is irresponsible #113765
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    That’s the key. We’re not in court. There’s no evidence available for us to evaluate. No burden of proof has to be met. All we have is the word of a woman who is risking a lot by coming forward vs the word of a man who has a history of inappropriate touching and general creepiness. She may be lying or he may be lying. No way to know for sure. It sucks that it’s this way, but I’m not just going to dismiss it because there’s no way to know conclusively. The crime is too heinous for that. I’m going with my gut. I believe her.

    For what it’s worth, the FBI says less than 8% of sexual assault claims are fraudulent.

    And I’m still voting for Biden.

    ======================

    I think Imperialist Rapists are going to get about 98 percent of the Vote.

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    in reply to: Sanders: Not supporting Biden is irresponsible #113762
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    Joe Biden a rapist ? Right. I’m sure Sanders has so little class he would support a rapist. Elizabeth Warren ? Oh, she doesn’t care either -she too would support a rapist. And all the rest of those candidates who support Biden. Obama, Harris, Yang, Buttigieg, Klobuchar. Clearly, they all have no morals since they are supporting a rapist. Then again maybe they too are all sexual predators so it doesn’t bother them in the least. Then again maybe they don’t even know about this “allegation”, huh ?

    I believe it is this precise reason why so many undecided people turned away from Sanders-not so much because of Bernie’s policies but because of the vitriol spread by his supporters-which sadly taints a good man. A true progressive to me has always been a champion of the rights of an individual. Calling a person a rapist based on a “claim” only without knowing the claimant and or anything about that person other than they work for someone who you share political common ground with is more than simply distasteful. And I strongly suspect that if the tables were reversed with Sanders being the accused there would be no such fervor.

    Most moderate democrats I know harbor no ill will toward Sanders, Stein, Warren, or for that matter any other progressives. Based on the language from progressives -I do know a few-plus media accounts, I can’t say the same in terms of how they relate to “other” democrats. The rapist claim is simply one example. It smacks of Willie Horton all over again. Maybe the far left and far right do share something.

    ====

    Sexual assault allegations are a nightmare. We dont know. He might be a rapist, She might be a liar. Its a nightmare.

    How would you suggest voters and the media handle it?

    We know how a court of law would handle it, but we are not in a court of law. So, people arent limited by legal standards. I have no problem with people believing her. Or him. Or believing they dont know. We’re not in court.

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    in reply to: tweets & such … 4/12 thru 4/15 #113704
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    “…Stu Jackson@StuJRams
    Rams QB Jared Goff said it was tough to see RB Todd Gurley and WR Brandin Cooks depart, but understands it’s part of business.
    Moving forward, he says Josh Reynolds has shown the ability to fill Cooks’ role: “I feel so comfortable with Josh. I’m excited to see him grow.”…
    —————–

    Enh. I dont think josh Reynolds is more than a C+ player.

    Thats ok, if ya wanna go 9-7.

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    in reply to: Sanders: Not supporting Biden is irresponsible #113698
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    To vote for the lesser-evil, or Not.

    It’s interesting that in the progressive mindset-if your not a progressive you must be “evil”.

    =================

    Yeah, absolutely, I think Biden is ‘evil’. I think he’s aided and abetted mass-murder. He’s the poster-boy for Imperialism, the CIA and Empire.
    Imperialism is kindof a neutral sounding word. But what it really means is mass-murder.

    I could go on and on about Biden, but mass-murder is enough for a post on a message-board.

    Anyway, yes, we see it THAT differently. Its THAT big a difference in our perspectives. Its fundamental.

    I’m not ’emotional’ about this anymore, btw. I know you will always see it differently. I’m just glad you have begun to see the fundamental difference between a leftist and a liberal/centrist.

    And yes, i still think of you as an internet-friend.

    I posted a message asking you a question about the National Lawyers Guild a few minutes ago, but it got devoured by the board Vortex. Maybe it’ll show up down the road.

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    in reply to: Is Biden ‘electable’ ? #113674
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    The allegation against Biden is testing some of the liberal-me-too folks:

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    I agree about the fan viruses. Can be benign or highly dangerous. The Rams virus, for instance, doesn’t cause too much misery, unless it mutates into its Warner/Bulger form, in which case patients end up throwing various virtual and inanimate objects at each other…

    ==============

    Ahh. I see you call it the Warner/Bulger Virus. Only an Evil Warnerite would call it the Warner/Bulger virus. The fact is it was the Bulger/Warner Virus.

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    in reply to: Sanders: Not supporting Biden is irresponsible #113658
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    Well its an old, old, question for Leftists. The far-left has wrestled with this election after election after election for over a hundred years.

    To vote for the lesser-evil, or Not.

    Repeat of 2016.

    w
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    Speaking of immunity, coronaviruses were first discovered in the 1960’s but have been associated with people for thousands of years. There are deadly ones – MERS, SARS, SARS-CoV-2, but most are relatively harmless and cause nothing more serious than the common cold.

    However, many of the strains of “harmless” coronaviruses could have been as deadly or deadlier than the virus that’s causing today’s pandemic. They may have decimated ancient populations. They seem harmless to us only because we are the descendants of the survivors that were immune to those viruses when they first came in contact with humans thousands of years ago.

    ========================

    I have a theory, myself. I think a Virus wiped out the Dinosaurs. It was a meteor-virus. A big meteor landed and there was an alien corona-virus on it.
    And that was that.

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    in reply to: First official pics from Dune #113646
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    I read Dune for the first time a summer or two ago and liked it. Never read the sequels because I heard they weren’t good. I was glad to see a new movie was coming out. I never saw the first movie with Kyle and Sting, and heard that I wouldn’t understand it anyway since I’d never read the book.

    I think the movie has made the still suits a little…slight. At least in my head, the still suit was more of a mask/helmet thing. Not good for acting, however.

    ======

    I always liked the sandworm-riding-thugz.

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    At about the four minute mark, he alludes to somethin i never thot about: When the Europeans came to America the viruses they brought kilt 90 percent of the Native Americans — but why wasnt it the other way around? Why didnt Native diseases kill the Europeans?

    There actually is an answer to that.

    The greatest concentration of domesticable wildlife in the world was originally in the Fertile Crescent. Whoever first domesticated those animals also caught diseases from them. That means that that population, over time, essentially consisted of the descendents of the survivors of those diseases. Over even more time that means that wherever those descendents–the original Eurasians–went, they brought those diseases with them as immune carriers. So when Europeans came to the western hemisphere, they were the descendents of the original domesticators, and the new world populations they encountered were entirely vulnerable to them.

    There is only one domesticable animal native to the entire western hemisphere–the llama.

    It’s not just the natives in north america that were wiped out. That was equally true in central and south america.

    BTW taming and domestication are of course entirely different things. Just to get that in.

    ====

    Well, the Doctor in the Vid answers the question too. I’m not sure if his answer is the same as the one you just laid out, or if its different. He didnt say anything about Fertile Crescents.

    Anyway, my favorite part of this Vid (and its awfully good, imho) starts around the 36 minute mark. Just watch about five minutes starting from the 36 min mark. I love the part where he quotes the the CEO from Big-Poultry.

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    in reply to: First official pics from Dune #113632
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    I dunno. The uniforms look like cheesy plastic to me. They always do. Gazillion-dollar movies, and the uniforms always look like plastic to me. Star Wars is unwatchable for me, because of the cheesy plastic uni’s.

    I hope, at least, the logo is good.

    w
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    This is a decade old, but I thought it was interesting. Domesticating animals leads to many viruses infecting humans, i guess.

    At about the four minute mark, he alludes to somethin i never thot about: When the Europeans came to America the viruses they brought kilt 90 percent of the Native Americans — but why wasnt it the other way around? Why didnt Native diseases kill the Europeans?

    in reply to: Is Biden ‘electable’ ? #113610
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    in reply to: Chloroquine, other approaches #113576
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    Its being used in two London hospitals now, fwiw.

    NHS:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211717/Malaria-drug-championed-Donald-Trump-used-coronavirus-patients-NHS-wards.html

    “..Hydroxychloroquine is being used at Barts in London and the Royal Devon and Exeter to keep critically ill coronavirus patients alive.

    President Trump described the drug as a ‘game changer’ and it has been added to the Chinese guidance for tackling the disease, but up until now the NHS has strongly discouraged its use….”

    in reply to: virus news … (+ some dark humor) #113562
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    31st NHS worker has died from the virus.

    in reply to: virus news … (+ some dark humor) #113561
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    in reply to: Is Biden ‘electable’ ? #113535
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    Biden has the support of all the Rich folks, the Corporations, Big Pharma, the CIA, the MSM, Goldman Sachs…

    You missed a few: He also has the support of the poor, the disenfranchised, the minorities, those in fear of what 4 more years of Trump will do to their health care, the federal courts, the electoral process, those in favor of pro-choice, those alarmed at the increased deficits, the privatization of our educational system, the separation of church and state, gun control, and-oh yes-now the economy.

    ================

    Granted. Thats true.

    I wish they knew better. They had a much better choice 🙂

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    I suppose we differ on how to interpret “better”. If you mean electable then -even I as a centrist-would vote and support Sanders if I believed he had a better chance of beating Trump than Biden. That’s how dangerous I believe Trump is. But for three reasons I don’t think that’s the case:

    1) As proven in the primaries young people supporting Sanders simply won’t show up on election day-with the possible exception of California but there Sanders had broad support. Unfortunately we are just one body of electoral votes.

    2) For whatever reason he will not bring out the African American vote whose power was displayed in the Obama elections.

    3) The remaining voters-assuming Sanders was the nominee-will be told by Trump that he is a socialist and the government will run their health care, etc. That wouldn’t bother the young voter but he or she won’t be there and same with the African American voters who won’t be there either.

    =======================

    Will enough progressives vote for Mr-Corporatist-Biden?

    I dunno. Read the comments here:

    in reply to: Rams trade Cooks to Texans #113540
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    Well, they built a team that went to the Super Bowl. It kinda seemed like they were throwing everything they had at that little window.

    I really have no problem with the decisions they made, then or now.

    But I’d say the reality is they are no longer a championship-level team.
    They seem like a middle-of-the-pack Wildcard level team to me.

    I can live with that for another year.

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    in reply to: Is Biden ‘electable’ ? #113518
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    Nathan Robinson
    ===

    in reply to: Are you a violet murderer? #113516
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    My name is TSRF, and I am a Violet murderer.

    ================

    Well at least plant an Oak Tree.

    This is the guy, that started a whole entire movement. He’s a legend
    in the “dont-murder-the-violets field.”

    in reply to: virus news … (+ some dark humor) #113491
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    ==
    Noam on Al Jazeera:https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/noam-chomsky-coronavirus-pandemic-prevented-200403113823259.html?fbclid=IwAR0zYVNIvnX8OIexerp1sMLGw_POSS7E6KXgabKf5nyRLgmPSNUcGgznJgQ

    “The coronavirus crisis could have been prevented because there was enough information available to the world, according to Noam Chomsky…
    ……
    ….Describing the US president as a “sociopathic buffoon“, Chomsky said while the coronavirus was serious, “it’s worth recalling that there is a much greater horror approaching. We are racing to the edge of disaster, far worse than anything that’s happened in human history.

    “Donald Trump and his minions are in the lead in racing to the abyss. In fact there are two immense threats that we’re facing – one is the growing threat of nuclear war … and the other of course is the growing threat of global warming.”

    While the coronavirus can have “terrifying consequences, there will be recovery”, said Chomsky, but regarding the other threats, “there won’t be recovery, it’s finished”.

    He also blasted Trump for continuing punishing sanctions on Iran, a country which is struggling to contain the virus with more than 3,000 deaths, as a way to make people suffer bitterly.

    “When the US imposes devastating sanctions – it’s the only country that can do that, everyone has to follow … the master. Or else they are kicked out the financial system,” said Chomsky….”

    in reply to: Is Biden ‘electable’ ? #113482
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    Biden has the support of all the Rich folks, the Corporations, Big Pharma, the CIA, the MSM, Goldman Sachs…

    You missed a few: He also has the support of the poor, the disenfranchised, the minorities, those in fear of what 4 more years of Trump will do to their health care, the federal courts, the electoral process, those in favor of pro-choice, those alarmed at the increased deficits, the privatization of our educational system, the separation of church and state, gun control, and-oh yes-now the economy.

    ================

    Granted. Thats true.

    I wish they knew better. They had a much better choice 🙂

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    in reply to: Logos/colors Monday … and … here it is #113458
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    in reply to: Is Biden ‘electable’ ? #113452
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    in reply to: Sanders drops out of the 2020 race #113450
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    The DNC lovefest for Bernie will begin now. First they cheat him, then they smear him, now they will act like Bernie and the Progressives are the most wonderful people on earth.

    I believe it was Dorothy Day, who called it a “dirty rotten system.”

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    in reply to: virus news … (+ some dark humor) #113417
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    in reply to: Andrew Cuomo #113418
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    Style over Substance.

    in reply to: Chloroquine, other approaches #113411
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    NYtimes:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-malaria-drug.html
    Trump’s Aggressive Advocacy of Malaria Drug for Treating Coronavirus Divides Medical Community

    While Dr. Anthony Fauci has urged caution in using hydroxychloroquine, some doctors are prescribing it to patients who have the virus despite the fact it has never been tested for it.

    WASHINGTON — President Trump made a rare appearance in the Situation Room on Sunday as his pandemic task force was meeting, determined to talk about the anti-malaria medicine that he has aggressively promoted lately as a treatment for the coronavirus.

    Once again, according to a person briefed on the session, the experts warned against overselling a drug yet to be proved a safe remedy, particularly for heart patients. “Yes, the heart stuff,” Mr. Trump acknowledged. Then he headed out to the cameras to promote it anyway. “So what do I know?” he conceded to reporters at his daily briefing. “I’m not a doctor. But I have common sense.”

    Day after day, the salesman turned president has encouraged coronavirus patients to try hydroxychloroquine with all of the enthusiasm of a real estate developer. The passing reference he makes to the possible dangers is usually overwhelmed by the full-throated endorsement. “What do you have to lose?” he asked five times on Sunday.

    Bolstered by his trade adviser, a television doctor, Larry Ellison of Oracle and Rudolph W. Giuliani, a former New York mayor, Mr. Trump has seized on the drug as a miracle cure for the virus that has killed thousands and paralyzed American life. Along the way, he has prompted an international debate about a drug that many doctors in New York and elsewhere have been trying in desperation even without conclusive scientific studies.

    Mr. Trump may ultimately be right, and physicians report anecdotal evidence that has provided hope. But it remains far from certain, and the president’s assertiveness in pressing the case over the advice of advisers like Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the government’s top infectious disease specialist, has driven a wedge inside his coronavirus task force and has raised questions about his motives.

    If hydroxychloroquine becomes an accepted treatment, several pharmaceutical companies stand to profit, including shareholders and senior executives with connections to the president. Mr. Trump himself has a small personal financial interest in Sanofi, the French drugmaker that makes Plaquenil, the brand-name version of hydroxychloroquine.

    “I certainly understand why the president is pushing it,” said Dr. Joshua Rosenberg, a critical care at Brooklyn Hospital Center. “He’s the president of the United States. He has to project hope. And when you are in a situation without hope, things go very badly. So I’m not faulting him for pushing it even if there isn’t a lot of science behind it, because it is, at this point, the best, most available option for use.”

    A senior physician at Wyckoff Heights Medical Center in Brooklyn, where doctors are not providing the drug, however, said the current demand was worrisome for patients on it chronically for rheumatic diseases. At St. Barnabas Hospital in the Bronx, another doctor said his staff was giving it to coronavirus patients but criticized the president and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo for “cheerleading” the drug without proof. “False hope can be bad, too,” he said.

    The professional organization that published a positive French study cited by Mr. Trump’s allies changed its mind in recent days. The International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy said, “The article does not meet the society’s expected standard.” Some hospitals in Sweden stopped providing hydroxychloroquine to treat the coronavirus after reports of adverse side effects, according to Swedish news media.

    But Mr. Cuomo told reporters on Monday that he would ask Mr. Trump to increase the federal supply of hydroxychloroquine to New York pharmacies, allowing the state to lift a limit on purchases. “There has been anecdotal evidence that it is promising,” Mr. Cuomo said, while noting the lack of a formal study….see link

Viewing 30 posts - 4,381 through 4,410 (of 12,582 total)