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wvParticipantReally good video, WV.
Finally saw who you had mentioned, over on the side of the website, and wanted to give it a listen.
Had never heard of him before, but I agree with the vast majority of what he said. Capitalism is the problem. As long as it exists as the legal economic mode of production, we can’t have democracy. It will always own the government. In my view, it’s just impossible. Capitalism is, in fact, economic apartheid. It’s easily the most immoral and destructive economic system in world history, and the first to take over the entire globe — which makes it all the more deadly.
I liked that the Finnish guy called socialism “economic democracy,” which is my take as well. It’s what I argue with others on and offline when I defend it . . . especially when they play the Stalin card. If we go to socialism, that means we replace economic apartheid with economic democracy. But few Americans will ever get this. Too many generations of gaslighting have fogged them up too much.
Do you agree with him about Dore overall, and his calling him a “liberal”? You know Dore. I really don’t, outside some of the videos you’ve posted here. It surprised me initially when he said that. But I think he makes a pretty good case for it, while complimenting Dore for being among the most “woke” liberals. Woke, in this case, meaning class-conscious.
Would enjoy reading your take on it.
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I think he ‘may’ be right about Dore, but I dunno. My take on Dore is more like he’s not easy to label. I mean how many critical-thinkers can really be ‘reduced’ down to this or that single word, like ‘socialist’ or whatever. I mean so much of what we support just depends on the context. Like, if someone asked me would i support a tax-increase on the rich, or a bigger tax on corporations, I’d say, “Yes, I support that”. Does that make me a ‘liberal’? Am i always supposed to say “Well i really support the dismantling of corporate-personhood, and corporate capitalism, and raising-taxes on corporations is just useless reformism and doesnt get to the root of the problem…blah blah blah…”
It gets tricky. I think Dore supports decent reforms. But that doesnt mean hes a liberal. He ‘might’ be. But maybe he just supports liberal reforms for strategic reasons, etc.
I’d vote for Bernie. But that doesnt make me a liberal-capitalist. In my case it just means, I dont believe in a “Revolution or Nothing” approach.
w
vwvParticipantOne other thing about Sanders. He isn’t a hypocrite. He has not been duplicitous in his career. All of the other candidates have been, and that is the kind of vulnerability Trump has a nose for, and will exploit endlessly. Trump defines his opponents. Every single one of them. He can’t define Bernie because Bernie is what he is, always has been, and owns it.
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I think this is HUGE. Cant be underestimated.
I’ll keep going back to Joe Rogan. Because i think he represents a type of voter that the Dems NEED. He switched to Bernie because he said he TRUSTS Bernie.
He didnt talk a lot about Bernie’s policies. He wasnt even sure Bernie’s policies were the right ones — but…he…TRUSTS Bernie. He’s used words like that over and over. Its an ’emotional’ thing. People….trust…Bernie. They dont trust establishment politicians anymore.None of that means i think Bernie ‘will win.’ Who the fuck knows if Bernie will win or Trump will win or if the DNC-Cheat-Candidate will win. Who knows.
Things are confusing nowadays. In flux. Dogs and Cats raining from the skies.w
vwvParticipant“That aside…W’s central point is to encourage us to vote blue no matter who because…Trump.”
Of course that is my point ! Can’t see how that was missed. Once the Democrats pick a nominee ideology becomes irrelevant in my mind. It could be Bernie, Ho Chi Minh, or Mr. Magoo for all I care. That is how dangerous I see Trump. My problem is that Trump sees Bernie as an easy target. Less so for the others. And I think he is right. If he’s the nominee I pray I’m wrong.
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Nah, I wont vote for a pro-one-percent-Dem, if he is the nominee because the pro-one-percent-DNC cheats Bernie, AGAIN. I’m sure a lot of progressives will go ahead and hold their noses and vote for a pro-corporate-dem, but a lot of progressives will just stay home, vote Green Party or….move to Thailand.
w
vFebruary 28, 2020 at 4:07 pm in reply to: DNC Superdelegate for Brokered Decision Is GOP Donor & Health Care Lobbyist #111707wvParticipantIve been skimming Barbara Ehrenreich’s “Natural Causes.” She talks about how the baby-boomers have bought into all the “health and wellness” industry’s corporate approaches to “staying healthy” and “living longer” etc. Yoga, Vitamins, Gym Memberships, etc, etc, etc. Gazillion dollar bizness.
One of the many facets of the “health and wellness” mentality can be “testing”. Lots and lots of medical “testing”. Go to a dentist and they want X-Rays. “Standard procedure.” Doctors love to order testing these days. Mammagrams, Colonoscopies, you name it. Ehrenreich goes against the grain and argues its not about ‘health’ its often about Profit. The American Doctors have a financial interest in ordering Tests. And the test equipment is so precise now it can find flaws in everything. Have enuff tests and the equipment WILL find something. Which means…more testing.
Capitalist-Medicine. Profit motive is ruining medicine.
Capitalist-Education. Profit motive is ruining education.
Capitalist-Media. Profit motive is ruining democracy.And on and on and on.
w
vwvParticipantI agree WV, I think Bernie can kick Trump’s ass…..
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Ok, but i have no idea, if Bernie can kick the Donald’s ass. I assume it will be REAL close, either way. Real…close.
Could go either way.
But i like bernie’s chances. The Progressives have waited so long. It’s their turn to try, for a change. Ya know. If the Country rejects it, so be it.
But its time to try. They’ve waited since….McGovern? How long is that?w
vwvParticipantTrump wants Sanders as an opponent because he knows he can beat him in those decisive states. Nevertheless, if he is the nominee I will fight for him like I’ve never fought before. I only hope if a “moderate” is nominated each of you will do the same. The stakes are really high here.
Trump has already beat a moderate in those decisive states…. the question is, will HRC, Biden, Bloom, Pocahantas, Mayor Pete etc stand behind and rally behind Bernie, like he did with HRC in 2016?
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Can you imagine how much fun Trump would have against:
Biden — the bumbling, fumbling, doddering, drooling, dull, same-old-same-ole Corporate Dem. Good Lord. Biden — Mr Excitement. Heck John Kerry was more exciting. Gore, was more exciting.
Bloomberg — The most disgusting Weasel in the field. A nightmare. Oh yeah, can you see Latinos and Blacks and young voters coming out for Bloomberg? Another corrupt Billionaire. Jeezus.
Buttachex? — He’d be like a lamb to the slaughter against Trump. Zero gravitas. He’s like a little weasely altar boy. Trump would chew him up and spit him out.
Warren? — I dunno. Her star has fallen so far, I just dont see it. Seems like another Hillary.
Klobachar? — Really? Please.
That leaves the guy who has already been thru the Wars. There’s nothing Trump can throw at him that he didnt see in 2016.
w
vwvParticipantWaterfield NONE of us knows if Bernie or ANYONE else could beat Trump. No-One knows. No-one…knows.
But from what the polls show, Bernie has as good or better chance than any of the other Dems. But who knows.
At any rate, SINCE we cant possibly KNOW, who will win (its gonna be close)
why not just vote for the one who mostly closely represents yer views.If Bernie wins California (which he will) and Texas (?) then he’s gonna be the nominee barring typical DNC-corrupt-tactics.
PS — fwiw, one leftist’s opinion — i think the DNC ‘uses’ all this “bernie isnt electable’ crap, as cover for its disgusting undemocratic pro-corporate tactics.
The DNC tells itself its got a noble purpose
, ie., ‘stopping an unelectable candidate’ — to cover up the disgusting tactics it uses. Thats what humans do, you know. There’s always a ‘noble purpose’ behind the disgusting stuff.“The brain is a self-justifying organ”
Dan Wilew
vw
vFebruary 27, 2020 at 8:09 pm in reply to: Robert B. Reich: Sanders might be the safest choice #111684wvParticipantwvParticipantAnother entire article on Gurley and ‘the plan’ and not a single mention of his arthritic knee. No questions about it, no answers. Just vague comparisons to Whitworth and WRs.
w
vFebruary 26, 2020 at 12:27 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111654wvParticipant<
Dem-Media, GOP-Media, corporate America and the capitalist system, they all gotta go.
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Take a little listen to a few mins of the FinnishBolshevik, in the post below. I started the vid at the 19 minute mark. He goes on an ornery leftist rant.
Whether his points are accurate or not aint interesting to me — its his angry-rant. I identify with it. The leftist rage. I carry it, too. I dont even know who i’d be without it, anymore. Ah well.w
vFebruary 26, 2020 at 8:51 am in reply to: just some “no thread for em” various political tweets … 2/25 thru ? #111649wvParticipantAs far as I know, that has never been said, by any Democrat-Prez candidate in history.
w
vFebruary 25, 2020 at 8:07 pm in reply to: Top DNC Committee is Packed With Corporate Lobbyists #111637wvParticipantFebruary 25, 2020 at 7:47 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111636wvParticipantSo the media-bias against bernie has made it to late-night comedy. Better late, than never:
February 25, 2020 at 7:44 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111631wvParticipantDoes Bernie “need the establishment” to win?
February 25, 2020 at 5:04 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111629wvParticipantThey went too far. They know that now.
I don’t think they know that at all. I think the DNC is THAT out of touch.
You got everyone nodding their heads in unison over the Hillary claim that Sanders’ “Bernie Bros” are actually a thing, and that they are the reason she lost.
And you’ve got James Fucking Carville melting down and calling Sanders a Commie, FFS, and complaining that the media has failed to “educate” young people who are deluded by Sanders.
I think the DNC firmly BELIEVES the shit they sow, and they think their way is Practical, Sensible, Objectively Good for the Country, and so on. After all, poor people go to Starbucks (in their imagination), so it’s really not that bad out there.
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Well, i dont disagree with any of that.
When i say they ‘know they went too far,’ I am talking about ‘strategy.’
MSNBC is hiring some pro-bernie people because they are now taking too much flak.
They know their previous strategy went a little too far. They are correcting course, strategically. And they know Bernie might become Prez.
Of course they still WANT a corporate-centrist, blah blah blah.w
vFebruary 25, 2020 at 12:23 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111617wvParticipantTo me, the single best aspect of the Bernie thing is that it caused more and more people to see the Dem-Corporate-Media for what it is.
They are STILL gonna be anti-progressive, btw. They just wont be quite so blatant about it. They went too far. They know that now. So, they’ll hire a few progressives now, and they wont be so blatant about what they want.
w
vThe MSM has always been anti-progressive, as you know. Nothing has changed along those lines. Or will. But what I think people should take from the Trump era is this: It’s now more obvious than ever that the Media never favored the Dems, much less that it’s a wing of the DNC. If it did favor them, why would they hire skads of Republicans to fight against Trump or shill for him? Why would it highlight so many ex-Bushies or current Trumpies? Wouldn’t a pro-Dem MSM push Dems to the fore instead?
And, of course, a pro-Dem media never would have let Trump win. It never would have used its tried and true “false equivalency” machine in talking about Clinton versus Trump, which it did, over and over again. Her emails were the number one story of the campaign, even though Trump’s history of mob-ties, serial criminality, serial sexual-predation, serial-cons and serial lying should have been.
Emails? No one should have cared about them, and it shouldn’t have even been a “story, much less THE story.
The Clintons are horrible, definitely. But by portraying Clinton as worse, or on an even ground with Trump, the media tilted the coverage in favor of Trump. Because as bad as they are, he’s a thousand fold worse, and that very same media is still trying to convince Americans that the two parties are roughly equivalent.
That is all the proof we need that the MSM does not favor the Dems.
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Well, my model is different than yours, BT. I see MSNBC as part of the Pro-Dem-Media. And Fox as part of the Pro-Rep-Media. Both of course are Pro-Corporate-Capitalist.
So, again, I do see a Pro-Dem-MSM.
As well as a Pro-Rep-MSM.
Both being Pro-Corporate-Capitalist.Sometimes them two elite-associations Fight. Sometimes they agree.
They both agree, that Bernie is too far left.
The Dems want Bloomberg etc. The Reps want Trump, etc.I dont think what I’m saying is too far-fetched. Just seems pretty obvious.
w
vFebruary 25, 2020 at 9:06 am in reply to: Bernie went to Nevada to kick ass & chew gum & he’s all outta gum #111609wvParticipantThis is one of Sander’s smart-people. He’s surrounded himself with smart people who know how to run campaigns.
But i have to say, none of these expert-celebrity-campaign-managers seem to have a soul. Salespersons-without-souls, is how they seem to me.
February 25, 2020 at 8:31 am in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111608wvParticipantTo me, the single best aspect of the Bernie thing is that it caused more and more people to see the Dem-Corporate-Media for what it is.
They are STILL gonna be anti-progressive, btw. They just wont be quite so blatant about it. They went too far. They know that now. So, they’ll hire a few progressives now, and they wont be so blatant about what they want.
w
vFebruary 24, 2020 at 4:51 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111599wvParticipantBut…the old guard is over 65,
and dying off year-by-year…
The gig is up for corporate polluters.
It is. It’s over.
So we can either do this peacefully,
or those Millennials…
are going to emerge with some baseball bats….=====================
You are such an optimist.
w
vFebruary 24, 2020 at 1:32 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111588wvParticipantThat Krystal Ball vid is worth watching. At least the last three mins or so.
What I wonder is, what will the Dem-MSM actually DO, if Bernie gets the Nomination?
Will they torpedo him? Because, think about it — if you are corporate-centrist, whats the best-case-scenario? If Bernie loses to Trump, the Dems will NEVER put up another progressive. At least they wont for the next 20 years.
What we’ll get is ‘fake progressives’ like Warren and Buddachex.So a lot is riding on Bernie. The whole American progressive movement.
He’s gotta win.
w
vFebruary 24, 2020 at 1:21 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111587wvParticipantFebruary 24, 2020 at 7:07 am in reply to: Bernie went to Nevada to kick ass & chew gum & he’s all outta gum #111579wvParticipantThe New Age vote goes to…
February 23, 2020 at 10:06 pm in reply to: Bernie went to Nevada to kick ass & chew gum & he’s all outta gum #111576wvParticipantI just realized something today.
I will turn 60-years old just before the election day in November. And it looks like it may be the first time in my life that I will cast a vote for a person I actually WANT to be president.
I’ve done the “Lesser of Two Evils” thing. And I’ve done the “Protest” vote.
This could be the first time I vote for someone I think will steer the country in the right direction.
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Six Decades on this planet, and only one Super Bowl win.
Six Decades and, arguably zero progressive Presidents. (Probly hav to go back about 70 years to FDR)
So, if yer a Progressive-Ram-Fan, the last sixty years….coulda been better. Ya know.
w
vFebruary 23, 2020 at 5:17 pm in reply to: ZN: a request for info on the subject of "race" as social construct. #111567wvParticipantwv ewe sent me this. Her kid is writin a paper,
link:https://www.legalissuesjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/LIJ-8-1-Selita-Willers-Kovas-1.pdf
‘Race’ and other group discrimination in the genomic era
Fatos Selita1
Department of Psychology, Goldsmiths, University of LondonDepartment of Psychology, Tomsk State UniversityMarc Willers Garden Court Chambers
Yulia Kovas Department of Psychology, Goldsmiths, University of LondonDepartment of Psychology, Tomsk State University————————————————
Summary. Genetic science has provided new knowl-edge that has the potential to reduce ‘race’ discrimina-tion. This includes findings that around 95% of human genetic variability is present within any population; and that most human traits are influenced by a complex combination of many genetic and environmental fac-tors. Despite this knowledge, racially discriminatory practices persist internationally, including segregation; unfair sentencing; state surveillance of children; and Email: fatos.selita@gold.ac.uk111Legal Issues Journal 8(1) January 2020involuntary sterilisation. Moreover, there is an emerg-ing risk that DNA may be used to propel harmful dis-criminatory practices. For example, new ‘DNA-based’ groups may emerge in the context of polygenic predic-tion – aggregating multiple genetic risks into individu-als’ combined risk indexes. Such DNA-based groups could be viewed as ‘new races’ – adding yet another category to the already heterogenous definition of ‘race’. This paper reviews the genetic advances directly relevant to, and their impact on, ‘race’ and other group discrimination; and assesses current UK and in-ternational discrimination practices and effectiveness of the laws in place prior to and in the genomic era. The paper concludes that current laws provide insufficient protection from ‘race’ and other group discrimination and still reflect people’s beliefs in entrenched differ-ences between ‘races’. The paper asserts that the very use of the term ‘race’ in equality legislation is problem-atic due to inconsistencies in definition across key leg-islations; and history of its association with domina-tion. Justice systems must update laws to reflect current genetic knowledge and to address existing and emerg-ing risks of discrimination.
Keywords: Discrimination law; race discrimin..
February 23, 2020 at 2:06 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111563wvParticipantCentrist-Corporatists discussing the crisis.
The Republican ex-Bush corporatist, sez Bernie is ‘not a Democrat.’February 22, 2020 at 9:58 pm in reply to: Washington Post: Sanders a risk… the media hates Bernie thread #111541wvParticipantAnd…Bernie is now a….drum-roll….wait for it….a Russian Tool.
No, its not Fox saying it — Near the end of this vid, Carlson quotes a coupla Dem-MSM stooges:
wvParticipant1970. Tommy Prothro. Blue and Whites. Roman. Willie Ellison. Snow.
Tom Brookshier narrating highlights.Themz wuz the days.
No internet. No 24 hours-a-day-Sports piped into yer head. No ‘in the grasp.’
No going over the middle without mayhem.w
vwvParticipantNo, and this is really the serious, open question about Sanders. The centrists are adding up all the other candidates against Bernie, suggesting that their backers could all consolidate behind whichever centrist survives, and beat Bernie, but there are also polls showing Sanders leading when everyone’s 2nd choice gets factored in. So who knows.
The thing is, though, that 28% is a lot higher than anyone else. Almost 50% higher than Biden who is 2nd in support.
Right now, there are a lot of candidates, and the big question is…where will their support end up as they drop out?
Looks to me like Warren, Buttigieg, and Klobuchar can’t make it past March 3. Maybe not Biden, either. They are all running out of money, so whoever takes 2nd today in Nevada might survive to fight a little longer, but nobody is going to send any more checks to candidates who finish 3rd or lower after today, I wouldn’t think, unless their numbers look good in South Carolina. I read somewhere that Warren and Buttigieg aren’t even going to campaign in California and Texas, hoping to make a dent by winning some of the smaller contests. Like American Samoa, maybe. That would leave Bloomberg.
I don’t know. My track record reading political tea leaves isn’t great, but that’s what I got.
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California. Texas. March 3rd.
…Last year, California’s Primary was later in the year, and Clinton won, right?
This year, California is on Super Tuesday.I assume the Corporate-Centrists are just hoping to muddy the waters and keep Bernie from sweeping thru the primaries. Do him in, at the convention.
w
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wikihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Tuesday
…Super Tuesday is the election day early in a United States presidential primary season (February or March) when the greatest number of U.S. states hold primary elections and caucuses. More delegates to the presidential nominating conventions can be won on Super Tuesday than on any other single day….2016
…..The participating states included Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado (with caucuses), Georgia, Massachusetts, Minnesota (with caucuses), Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, and Virginia. Additionally, Republican caucuses were held in Alaska, North Dakota, and Wyoming.[16][17] The territory of American Samoa held a Democratic caucus.[17]…….The Democratic primaries and caucuses concluded with Bernie Sanders winning Colorado, Minnesota, Oklahoma, and Vermont; and Hillary Clinton winning Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. Clinton received 486 delegates, while Sanders received 321.[18]….
…2020
Super Tuesday will be on March 3, 2020.[28][29][30] Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, and Virginia will all hold their presidential primaries on that date.[28][29][30] The Democrats Abroad primary, for Democrats living outside of the United States, will also begin voting on March 3, and conclude on March 10.[31] 1,357 of the 3,979 pledged delegates to be awarded to the candidates in the Democratic primaries will be allotted on Super Tuesday. 1,617 total delegates could be awarded to the candidates.[32][33][34] This is driven in large part by the two most populous states in the country, California and Texas, allotting 415 and 228 delegates respectively on Super Tuesday.[33][34]….wvParticipantOn the Owen Jones Vid up there. (If i ‘quote’ the message, the spam-thing will blow away my post, so I’ll just ‘reply’ to it without quoting the message…)
Its brilliant. And its a reflection of the difference in the campaign since last time Bernie ran. Bernie has hired smarter helpers or somethin. THIS time around he is GOING AFTER THE FUCKING MEDIA. Just like Trump did. Just like Nixon did. Just like a lot of Reps have done. This is the first time I’ve seen a major DEM play that card though. And i think its about fucking time.
The thing is though, on a more ‘meta’ note, this is also a reflection of just how bad the media is and just how much distrust their NOW is of the media by the Right AND the left. That Bernie ad wasnt picking on Fox News — it was picking on the whole MSM.
Centrists still love the MSM, I’d say. No-one else does.
Centrists will run ‘with’ the media — Progressives and Righties will now run ‘against’ the media.
Difficult to say, who will put together just the right coalition of factions to win the Game.Maybe i should start calling it the ‘Main-Centrist-Media’.
w
vwvParticipantWell, i dunno what 28 percent really means, but it dont sound all that good to me.
Quite a little electoral drama we got goin here in amerika. Reminds me of Lord of the Rings. Ya know. Frodo vs Mordor. Not an easy task. A fool’s hope.
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