zn wrote:

Well bear in mind what I said about the numbers. Rams have faced 5 of the top 10 pressure percentage defenses this year and won all 5. Goff looked decent to very good in all of them. And in addition to that, according to PRF numbers Arizona pressured him the 4th most times (16) of any games from 2018 on. So they are facing pressure. They handle it better this year with a relatively healthy, good OL than they did in 2019 with a problem OL, but that’s just to be expected.

So the issue is not pressure alone.

The games like Miami and SF this year, and Chicago in 2018, combines other things WITH pressure.

1. a top secondary that slows the passing game (it is never just pressure, it’s pressure plus facing a top secondary)…this is especially true if the secondary is slowing Goff down and getting him out of rhythm
2. no running game–either cause of the RB or the other team defends it, or McVay refuses for some inexplicable reason to run the ball (like Miami this year)
3. McVay does not adjust in-game to the defense he is facing and struggles with in-game instincts and adjustments (like the infamous 6-1 D front issue). McVay adjusts to tough defensive gameplans between games, not IN games. So for example he couldn’t crack the Patz D in the superbowl but he did the next time he played them.
4. also, pressure

The complete collapse games we have seen from Goff have all those features, it is never just one of them–and it is absolutely not just pressure. For example, Tampa is top 10 in pressure percentage on defense. Rams could not run the ball against them. They had to throw to win. In fact they threw 51 times. But it was not one of the infamous Goff meltdown games.

well. i mostly agree with you on all your points. probably very slight differences in how much goff gets bothered by pressure.

Zooey wrote:

No, there isn’t. There’s the observation that he isn’t one of those QBs who is slippery, and – like most QBs – his effectiveness can drop significantly under constant pressure. Few QBs transcend that, but very few of them ever had Kill Kurt drills.

You say 12-10. Most of us are saying 10-15. That’s why we’re having a board war, and if you can’t take it, maybe you should surrender like Chris Everett.

hahahahaha!

i’m not laughing at zn. i’m really just laughing at ALL OF US. the fact that we’re arguing the difference between 10-12 and 10-15.

this is a great board.

zn wrote:

How is Goff without the 3 bad games? (which I don’t put all on him.) By qb ranking, the other 10 games, he averages out to 10th in the league.

but you have to include the bad games.

is too much being made of his pocket awareness or lack of awareness? possibly.

for me it’s not enough to just point to plays where he does demonstrate pocket awareness. it has to be compared to his peers.

i don’t know how you comparatively measure pocket awareness though.

just taking passer rating though. ne allows an 87 passer rating. goff had a rating in the 70s… but i don’t put that int on him. i think he performed better than what his rating indicates.

and even if i were to agree to take his three bad games away (which i wouldn’t), he’s still ranked 10th which puts him at my 10-15 ranking as a qb.

Zooey wrote:

I feel like this team is improving as the season rolls on

really hoping the rams can peak at the right time.

really like her podcasts and articles. i don’t know how to say it other than she writes exactly the stuff i wanna read about.

zn wrote:

The Great

1) Aaron Donald. I really just took a few meditative moments this week and enjoyed the gratitude I have for having the best football player I’ve ever seen on our team.

his talent really is transcendent.

he’s only halfway there, but his trajectory certainly points to being an all-time great.

i never saw deacon jones play. never saw merlin olsen play. but i imagine watching them was like what watching donald is now. just gotta savor every moment.

Zooey wrote:

Career YPA Montana (tied for 30th all time) 7.5/yds.
Career YPA Goff (tied for 24th all time) 7.6/yds.

Here’s some perspective on that:

just looking at ypa. and i think comparing across eras is difficult. it’s more informative to me to see how each player compares to his contemporaries.

here are montana’s rankings among his contemporaries just looking at ypa.

1979 – not even ranked in the top 30
1980 – 22nd
1981 – 9th
1982 – 8th
1983 – 8th
1984 – 2nd
1985 – 7th
1986 – 12th
1987 – 6th
1988 – 8th
1989 – 1st
1990 – 6th
1991 – injured
1992 – not enough attemps to qualify

jared goff
2016 – not even ranked in the top 30
2017 – 3rd
2018 – 4th
2019 – 14th
2020 – 13th

and then looking at aaron rodgers from 2008 until today.
2008 – 9th
2009 – 6th
2010 – 2nd
2011 – 1st
2012 – 5th
2013 – 2nd
2014 – 2nd
2015 – 30th
2016 – 13th
2017 – 18th
2018 – 17th
2019 – 8th
2020 – 6th

so…

dunno…

maybe the rams need a deep threat? defenses don’t respect the rams’ deep threat right now. they did when cooks was a ram…

• This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by InvaderRam.

Agamemnon wrote:

I like Bulger. Goff I am just ok with.

mmmm… need more data.

zn wrote:

Now I know it’s after a tough loss and the first tendency is to automatically blame the qb.

if that’s all he missed i’d agree. but he had a bad game. and he’s turning the ball over at an alarming rate.

having said that calling him a 10-15 qb is hardly a slight. but i can definitely name 10 qbs who i think are better than him.

at the same time that’s a far cry from saying he’s a bad qb.

wv wrote:

Has he hit his celing? In a slump? Pressing?

i don’t think he’s as bad as this game. but for me i’m calling it. the numbers are in.

he’s slightly above average – a 10-15 qb. he could get marginally better but he’s starting to plateau.

very poor game by goff and mcvay.

defense did their job. gave up only 16 points and scored 7 themselves.

running game was stifled outside of that one big gain. but they did score a td.

but 4 turnovers? that was a killer.

oh. i’m not saying average at best.

i’m saying average at worst.

zn wrote:

Well, to me it doesn’t. To me it just means season averages can be deceptive. They can hide the way one bad patch can be followed by a long good patch. The qb hit a valley, learned from it, got steadier. The real 15th rank qb does not play like Goff did Monday.

If he continues to be up and down, then the average makes sense.

If across 8 games after Miami he plays significantly better than he did in the 2nd quarter of the season then the average is hiding something.

we’ll find out soon enough. like i said. this season and one more year. 22 more games. possibly 38 more games. most likely 22 games.

his game against tampa bay was good. not great. passers against tampa bay average around 91. goff had a 98 passer rating.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by InvaderRam.

he’s 15th in passer rating.

18th in ypa.

8th in passing yards.

15th in completion percentage.

he’s been about average this year. i think his ceiling is above average. good. but not great. not top 5. possibly top 10. but at least consistently 10-15. at least.