the first Stafford thread

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From our @nflnetwork breaking news coverage: New #Rams QB Matthew Stafford is tonight's biggest winner. pic.twitter.com/NcDeeCiXYR

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) January 31, 2021

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Matthew Stafford — Arm talent, movement ability, toughness. Fringe Top 10 QB.

Can see multiple teams in the mix here. IND, WASH, SF, DEN, NE…@NFLMatchup pic.twitter.com/TtyS7vquTJ

— Matt Bowen (@MattBowen41) January 23, 2021

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from 2020 Quarterback Tiers: 50 coaches and evaluators rank the NFL starters

Mike Sando Jul 27, 2020

https://theathletic.com/1945894/2020/07/27/2020-quarterback-tiers-50-coaches-and-evaluators-rank-the-nfl-starters/

TIER 2

A Tier 2 quarterback can carry his team sometimes but not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and/or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above Tier 3. He has a hole or two in his game.

Tier 1 votes: 5 | Tier 2 votes: 38 | Tier 3 votes: 7 | 2019 Tier: 2

Stafford has played 11 seasons, owns no playoff victories, is coming off a broken back at age 32 and actually ranks two spots higher than he did last year, with a higher average tier vote. Voters liked what they saw from him last season.

“Two at the minimum,” an exec with NFC North ties said. “He was trending to a one this past year before he got hurt. If that joker was healthy, he would have been a one this year. I think he’s doing better and fits better within the scheme (under coordinator Darrell Bevell).”

Stafford set career single-season highs last season for yards per attempt (8.6), EPA per attempt (0.26), passer rating (106.0) and Total QBR (69.6). The Lions still went only 3-4-1 in his starts.

“Why he hasn’t won more, I always try to put my finger on that,” a coach with extensive experience against Stafford said. “We always talk about the culture. Pat Mahomes comes into the league and sits behind Alex Smith, and you have Andy Reid there. If you put Matt Stafford in that situation his rookie year and he gets to see, ‘OK, this is a Hall of Fame head coach, a quarterback that has been around the league that I can learn from and see his habits.’ I don’t know if Matt Stafford has ever been exposed to what it’s supposed to look like.”

This coach and four other voters placed Stafford in the top tier. Seven others showed their exasperation with the quarterback’s failure to drive team success by placing him in the third tier, despite his obvious talent.

“He is the opposite of Watson,” an evaluator who placed Stafford in the third tier said. “Same kind of thing with Derek Carr. Big, strong arm, a couple ‘wow’ passes here and there, but you’re not a consistent winner and your errors sometimes lose the game.”

Multiple coaches and execs from teams that have faced Stafford frequently said they fear facing him regardless.

“If you landed him in Pittsburgh or San Francisco, you’d see a winner,” a defensive coordinator said. “He is going down that Carson Palmer road. Carson never really won until he got late in his career, either. Carson could always throw the ball. He was a first-round pick. He got to Arizona and he made some things happen. Never quite won the big one, but he was still a damn good quarterback.”

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Aaron Rodgers on Matt Stafford pic.twitter.com/sH5xPqPP3h

— HoldenCantor (@HoldenCantor) January 31, 2021

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Llleeettttssss goooooooooooo @RamsNFL #NFL pic.twitter.com/l6ILLTg4vx

— Dan Orlovsky (@danorlovsky7) January 31, 2021

[nittany ram]

Well…

I’m still digesting this, so I haven’t completely formed my opinion about this trade.

But in the end I guess I trust McVay to know what he needs to make his offense perform the way he wants it to.

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nittany ram wrote:

But in the end I guess I trust McVay to know what he needs to make his offense perform the way he wants it to.

But that might also mean we CAN’T trust McVay to make the most of the talent he does have instead of shoving players into square holes.

[Cal]

The Rams look like a better team with Stafford at qb. He can do some impressive things. But he doesn’t look like a top tier guy.

I watched about 10 minutes of Youtube highlights and saw Stafford take a ridiculous sack and fumble in the end zone 3 years ago against the Saints and also throw a dumb Int in the red zone against the Saints last year. Uggh.

Hopefully, the Rams are making a wise bet that some of their young guys–Brycen Hopkins, Anchrum, Jefferson, and maybe Brian Allen–will be talented players.

The 9ers still look like a better team and should be the team favored to win the West.

[wv]

Cal wrote:

The Rams look like a better team with Stafford at qb. He can do some impressive things. But he doesn’t look like a top tier guy.

I watched about 10 minutes of Youtube highlights and saw Stafford take a ridiculous sack and fumble in the end zone 3 years ago against the Saints and also throw a dumb Int in the red zone against the Saints last year. Uggh.

Hopefully, the Rams are making a wise bet that some of their young guys–Brycen Hopkins, Anchrum, Jefferson, and maybe Brian Allen–will be talented players.

The 9ers still look like a better team and should be the team favored to win the West.

—————–

I have no idea who the best team in the West is. They all
look bunched up to me. I suppose injuries will decide it.

At any rate, whens the last time a Ram starting QB
had an ARM like Stafford? Just curious.
Ferragamo? Do we have to go back that far?
Tony Banks maybe?

w
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[Cal]

wv wrote:

I have no idea who the best team in the West is. They all
look bunched up to me. I suppose injuries will decide it.

Maybe, but I love the way the Shanahans play football going back to Mike Shanahan’s days with the Broncos. I think the 9ers ability to run and play defense is a winning formula so I am definitely biased.

McVay seems to be intent on using the pass to set up the run at times. That definitely seemed like his answer this year against some good defenses like the Bucs & Bears this year.

I’m not convinced that will work, especially with this line. We’ll see.

[InvaderRam]

zn wrote:

But that might also mean we CAN’T trust McVay to make the most of the talent he does have instead of shoving players into square holes.

yup.

that’s what we’re about to find out.

[Billy_T]

I like Stafford’s game. He has arm talent is in excess of Goff’s. But, game in, game out, his track record is meh. Yeah, you can blame a lot of that on his surroundings. But not all of it.

If I had to choose between either QB for right now, I’d take Stafford. But he’ll turn 33 next month, so I wouldn’t choose him over Goff to “build a team around.” Goff turns 27 in October. I’m taking him for the future.

But what I find truly appalling is how much the Rams gave up in this trade. To me, it really should have been a one to one swap, at most. In fact, the Lions should have given the Rams a draft pick. Instead, the Rams made a trade, in terms of value given away, for a perennial All-Pro, in the top five, league-wise, at least. That’s not Stafford.

Dumb, dumb, dumb trade. And the Rams basically mortgaged their future on this one.

[Billy_T]

And another thing — apologies if this has already been mentioned:

Wanna find the fastest way to drive down the value of your own trade asset? Trash him publicly, or, at best, damn him with faint praise. Talk up how unsure you are about him being around much longer. Then seek a trade.

That’s just beyond stupid, and no doubt thrilled the Lions to hear.

Of all the questionable things the Rams FO has done in recent times, this takes the burnt cake. I can’t find, from any angle, a single aspect of this that makes any sense, much less points to intelligent management.

Is there a sports acronym for SNAFU?

[nittany ram]

Billy_T wrote:

I like Stafford’s game. He has arm talent is in excess of Goff’s. But, game in, game out, his track record is meh. Yeah, you can blame a lot of that on his surroundings. But not all of it.

If I had to choose between either QB for right now, I’d take Stafford. But he’ll turn 33 next month, so I wouldn’t choose him over Goff to “build a team around.” Goff turns 27 in October. I’m taking him for the future.

But what I find truly appalling is how much the Rams gave up in this trade. To me, it really should have been a one to one swap, at most. In fact, the Lions should have given the Rams a draft pick. Instead, the Rams made a trade, in terms of value given away, for a perennial All-Pro, in the top five, league-wise, at least. That’s not Stafford.

Dumb, dumb, dumb trade. And the Rams basically mortgaged their future on this one.

Alot of whether this trade makes sense or not depends on how good you think Stafford is. I don’t watch him a lot, but he always struck me as having about the same talent as Goff, Ryan, etc. If that’s the case, the trade doesn’t make much sense.

But there are a lot of guys who think he is much better than that. Many think that with better coaching and personnel around him, he will be borderline elite to elite. I don’t know.

The other thing people who do like this trade are saying is that the reason why the price for Stafford was so steep, was to get Detroit to take on Goff’s contract. A contract McVay and Snead were only too happy to sign a year and a half ago.

This may be the defining moment of the McSnead era in LA. I just hope Stafford is everything they think he is, because if he isn’t, then this could be the beginning of their end.

[InvaderRam]

Billy_T wrote:

I like Stafford’s game. He has arm talent is in excess of Goff’s. But, game in, game out, his track record is meh. Yeah, you can blame a lot of that on his surroundings. But not all of it.

yeah. it’ll be interesting to see. the narrative coming from the rams is that mcvay adjusted to goff, and it still wasn’t working. i don’t know. i really don’t.

and the narrative on stafford is that he’s been stuck on some really bad teams. again. i don’t know.

so now you’re swapping them. how do they do? mcvay would you think go back to a more explosive offense no longer being hindered by goff’s limitations. and stafford should take off now that he’s surrounded by more talent. and how does goff do without that support system?

IF you believe the narratives. no i realize it’s not that simple. it never is.

should be interesting.

[Zooey]

I thought Goff was okay, and not the reason the Rams offense wasn’t better. I think they need to stretch the field, something that Cooks took with him, apparently.

The Rams threw a LOT of high % passes this year. According to the McVayites, that’s because they were customizing the offense to enhance Goff’s strengths. But I don’t know. I mean… we know Goff can throw deep. And it wasn’t just Cooks. I remember Goff hitting Woods on posts, and beating the Chiefs on a long throw to Everett. So… I’m just convinced that there weren’t deep throws this year because… Goff.

And is Stafford really more mobile than Goff?

I don’t know. The side-by-side statistics for 2020 don’t show much difference between Goff and Stafford. Stafford was on a worse team, but…

We shall see. Nobody knows.

Frankly, right now, I’m worried about losing Johnson and Floyd, and having a weakened defense next year.

If Akers stays healthy, and Stafford is an improvement over Goff, then the offense could be better, I guess.

One thing is for sure, though. McVay thinks the time is NOW to go to the Super Bowl (and he’s right about that), and he thinks he has improved the team RIGHT NOW by replacing Goff with Stafford.

[Hram]

It’s an NBA salary dump move while upgrading the actual players be swapped.

Goff is an average QB. Stanford may just be this decades equivalent of Archie Manning. Now McVay has a QB he scouted that he believes fits the rest of his offense and opens things back up.

Their mistake was extending Goff two years ago when they likely figured he would continue progressing. Well, he didn’t continue progressing. The next question is what to do with that sunk cost.

This is just a call. They made it. One thing the current incarnation of this franchise is not afraid to do is be bold.

If staffolds extension makes sense, then they can keep/get some extra players over the next 4 years. We’ve got Donald, Ramsey and now staffers for the next 3-4 years. If they can shore up the interior of the Oline at all either with an acquisition or further development, they could be really good.

We can beat Seattle, SF still does not have a good QB and Arizona does not scare me.

Chips all shoved to the center of the table!

[zn]

Hram wrote:

Their mistake was extending Goff two years ago when they likely figured he would continue progressing. Well, he didn’t continue progressing. The next question is what to do with that sunk cost.

I seldom agree with those arguments. Goff had 4 bad games in 2020. If you go back to 2010 and looked at Stafford in his 5th year, he had 4 bad games too (using this measurement: in 2010 a qb rating of under 70 = a bad game).

So did Goff stop progressing or did some people just get unrealistic about qb progress?

I think McVay lost patience with Goff because it’s McVay’s nature to lose patience, not because of anything inherent to Goff.

But none of this makes me anti-Stafford. Now that he’s a Ram I will be curious to see him play.

…

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Dan Orlovsky says Rams got a gem in Matthew Stafford

SAM FARMER

https://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/story/2021-01-31/dan-orlovsky-rams-matthew-stafford

The Rams gave up an arm and a leg to get a franchise quarterback.

And got the right arm of Matthew Stafford in return.

Wise move. That’s the opinion of Dan Orlovsky, at least, a retired quarterback who backed up Stafford in Detroit and spent a training camp with the Rams in Sean McVay’s first season.

Orlovsky, who now works at ESPN, is one of the best up-and-coming analysts in the business, a guy who spent 12 seasons in the NFL, playing for Detroit, Houston, Indianapolis, Tampa Bay and back to Detroit, before finishing with a stint at Rams camp.

He knows what the Rams are getting in Stafford, for whom they traded quarterback Jared Goff, and three draft picks — two firsts and a third.

“It’s absolutely perfect for Matthew, going to L.A.,” Orlovsky said Sunday, the morning after the trade. “Matthew should have been in this style of system for many years, it just didn’t happen. He is best when he gets to hold onto the ball for a little bit of time and uses his explosive arm to make incredible, wow throws. He’s a way better athlete than people think on the perimeters, even at his age.

“Fit-wise, it’s perfect for Matthew. It’s perfect for the Rams.”

Rams coach Sean McVay led his team to the Super Bowl with Jared Goff as his quarterback, but they failed to recapture the magic of the 2018 season.

One of the big differences Stafford will notice right away, Orlovsky said, is the Rams have a running game.

“Matthew in the last six seasons has averaged 89 yards rushing, his team,” he said. “The Rams averaged 126 last year. That’s huge. Matthew’s had a 100-yard back 11 times in 12 seasons. The Rams had a 100-yard back five times last season.

“Just that alone, you’re going to see life so much easier for a quarterback. It’s absolutely perfect.”

By Orlovsky’s appraisal, the Rams have a two-year window for their best chance to make a Super Bowl run, and are one move away from becoming the complete package. They need a receiver who can stretch the field, and he sees Detroit receiver Marvin Jones as an ideal fit. Jones, who caught nine touchdown passes in three of the last four seasons, is due to become a free agent this spring.

“If I were them, I’d go sign Marvin,” Orlovsky said. “I think it makes a ton of sense. Matthew and he have a great relationship. They obviously have a great rapport on the field. I think Marvin Jones would be that person.”

As first impressions go, the most striking aspect of Stafford is his accuracy and ability to throw all the required passes.

“The arm is anything you could ever cross your fingers and hope for when it comes to a quarterback’s ability to make throws,” Orlovsky said. “Can you throw the ball 65-plus yards down the field? Absolutely. Can you throw the ball 24 yards on an absolute rope between defenders? Yes. Can you throw the ball up over a defender but get it down before somebody closing comes? Yes. Can you drop it down sidearm and be accurate because you need to? Absolutely. Can you throw on the run? Yes.

“Everything that you could want is in the right shoulder.”

But Orlovsky said Stafford was even more impressive as a teammate.

“One of the best people I’ve ever met. Legit,” he said. “That’s the thing that gets lost with him a lot. He’s an incredible person with this great heart, an absolute savage competitor.

“I was talking to a coach yesterday who is in on the quarterback market and was asking about him. I said, ‘His greatest quality is he can be two people at once. He knows he’s the guy. He knows he’s The Man. He has this aura about him that 100% knows he’s The Man. And at the same time, he has a great ability to just be a guy. Like just one of the guys.’

“I think there’s quarterbacks that can get their teammates to walk 90 out of 100 steps on the journey with them. Maybe 95 out of 100. His teammates will walk 100 out of 100 for him.”

[Hram]

We’ll just agree to disagree!

I think it probable Goff stopped progressing. I also think it most likely Goff had a better team around him than Stafford.

It will be an interesting experiment to see how they do in each other’s shoes next year.

[InvaderRam]

Zooey wrote:

I thought Goff was okay, and not the reason the Rams offense wasn’t better.

well. for me there were a multitude of ways the rams could have made the offense better. upgrading at qb was only one of them. and i don’t think it was the wisest choice. not for what they gave up.

unless mcvay really is right about goff. unless he really had to go to lengths to cover up goff’s deficiencies. i mean. i don’t think that’s the case.

i think we really won’t know the answer until a couple of years from now when the dust has settled.

zn wrote:

I think McVay lost patience with Goff because it’s McVay’s nature to lose patience, not because of anything inherent to Goff.

i’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you. but what about mcvay leads you to believe that? outside of this goff situation that is.

[InvaderRam]

zn wrote:

He is best when he gets to hold onto the ball for a little bit of time and uses his explosive arm to make incredible, wow throws.

ehhh… doesn’t sound like he’s a fast processor…

we’ll see.

[zn]

Dan Orlovsky@danorlovsky7
The last 6 years of Stafford’s career his team avg 89 yards rushing per game. Last year the
@RamsNFL avg 126 ypg. He’s had a 100 yard back in a game 11 times in 12 yes. The Rams did that 5X LY.

Stafford has had a top 10 defense 1 time in 12 season. He went 11-5 that year

[zn]

The embodiment of leaving everything on the field.

Matthew Stafford had one of the greatest mic’d up moments ever…
✊
pic.twitter.com/FKLrNZ4lRH

— Scott Turken (@Turk0219) January 31, 2021

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QB Matthew Stafford in Sean McVay’s offense —

Pretty easy fit there…

Throw the in-breakers off play-action. Get to the edges on boot + the Hi-Lo reads in the middle of the field.

Would expect L.A. to throw more vertical shots with Stafford, too. @NFLMatchup #Rams pic.twitter.com/dZHXc3flgQ

— Matt Bowen (@MattBowen41) January 31, 2021

[Billy_T]

Lotsa good comments from all of youze.

Mobility. From my memory of watching Stafford, and then double-checking his Combine staff, I’d bet Goff is actually more mobile, and has taken fewer hits.

Stafford does have the better arm. Possibly by a lot. But he’s also streaky, and can make dumb throws at times, like Goff.

I’m honestly not seeing enough of a difference to warrant the trade, even One for One. And the age difference is important, IMO. As mentioned, I’d do it if the Lions had given the Rams a pick. And, of course, to get that salary relief. But for two #Ones and a #Third?!?! No way on earth would this particular amateur GM do that. Not even . . .

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars

Not evah.

Hope I’m wrong. And cuz I have a good track record for that, I shouldn’t worry. But, when I read about the trade lastnight, I was shouting into the void all kinds of @#$%&! and @#$%&!. Luckily, I’ve learned Grawlix, so my neighbors couldn’t really tell.

[wv]

I guess the Legend, John Wolford,
is a back-up QB, again.

His star didnt quite reach Massey level.

w
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• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by wv.

[Billy_T]

wv wrote:

I guess the Legend, John Wolford,
is a back-up QB, again.

His star didnt quite reach Massey level.

w
v

Or the Hedgehog’s.

Of course, no Ram will ever be as deservedly famous as Billy Truax. I’ve been trying to get him carved into Mount Rushmore for years.

[wv]

wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Stafford

NFL single season Record
“most 4th Quarter comebacks in a season – 8”
2016

=
w
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[wv]

In 2017, he had a QB rating of 99.3 — but get this,
he was sacked 47 times. That has got to be some
sort of record.

He had 2 fumbles in 2020.
He had 11 in 2017.

Hasnt been a Low-INT guy.
Usually in that 10-15 range.

5 seasons over 95 QB rating.

w
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