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June 7, 2017 at 12:27 am in reply to: It turns out that the $110 billion Saudi arms deal is actually 'fake news' #69764
ZooeyModeratorAnd on the same day, it is revealed that he funneled hundreds of thousands of dollars from a cancer charity into his own business.
Typical Trump day.
ZooeyModerator
ZooeyModeratorI reflect on the educational system’s impact on all of this quite a bit, since it is basically my job to teach critical thinking. So I wonder, how much fault belongs to teachers? How much is the system? How much is the students? And I don’t know.
What I do know is that I ask students questions that require higher level thinking – evaluation, synthesis, etc. – and few of them answer. I am careful to start with the lower level questions – recall, understanding, etc. – so that I “scaffold,” an education term for making sure all the pieces are understood by the students so that they are in a position to answer the question. And…you know…they just don’t. Largely. Even when they have registered enthusiasm for the topic in question. So it doesn’t seem to be apathy, at least not entirely.
I do believe that the system tends to numb kids, and dull their love of learning (I would get rid of grades K-8 at least, possibly even k-12 because I think it teaches kids that school is about getting points rather than learning and exploring). But I am inclined to think that teenagers, even bright teenagers, just mostly are not capable (or perhaps mature enough) to engage in critical thinking. There are some. Maybe 10% of the kids I have come through my classes. But most kids just want the answer, and want to parrot.
And this isn’t unique to our time.
I am just more and more inclined to believe that critical thinking just isn’t for everybody. I have a lot of friends who seem intelligent, but just aren’t interested in politics, or social issues, environmental issues etc. To them it’s just boring stuff, and both sides do it, and shut up about it already. That kind of thing. They just aren’t interested in engaging.
I don’t know. I just don’t know. But I tend to think the problem is that for the most part, humans just don’t want to struggle mentally, physically, or emotionally.
ZooeyModeratorWell, you sure are no John Galt.
ZooeyModeratorYes-what I meant is that when it comes to this particular issue the Republicans will always default to economics.
This is a good n important thread to start W, thanks for the contribution.
I wonder if diehard dogmatic republicans can be explained by genetics.
I wonder about that, too. And about environmental factors. I’ve been thinking about that since I started thinking more about political “branding,” about identifying with a political brand.
As I said a month or so ago, I think the Republican brand tends to attract people who tend to place a higher value on Authority, and on unsympathetic black and white rules/discipline.
Is that kind of thing genetic? Or is it personality based? I dunno.
ZooeyModeratorI was thinking maybe Rosey Grier because I know he dabbled in Hollywood. Too early for Merlin Olsen.
I figured Lamar Lundy would be on everyone’s shortlist given his height and the time frame.
Well, obviously. But those of us who understand how Hollywood works know that they use an array of techniques to make actors look larger or smaller just for the hell of it. So it was a bit of a surprise they didn’t do that in this case, and probably explains why the episode never aired.
ZooeyModeratorI was thinking maybe Rosey Grier because I know he dabbled in Hollywood. Too early for Merlin Olsen.
ZooeyModeratorThere are lots of hierarchies outside of feudalistic societies. I don’t even understand that statement. Of course the CIA and NSA and FBI are hierarchical.
And I think we can acknowledge that they aren’t all of the same mindset. Not every American is a Trump supporter. Not every American thinks capitalism is God’s own economic system. Not every American thinks that our government’s foreign policy is mostly benevolent. But there are cultures within these agencies that value service to the capitalist, imperialistic nature of our society. People within are largely supportive of these general values, and like General Butler, are prepared to serve those interests in violation of human rights.
ZooeyModeratorBut I don’t think those things ARE synonymous. It’s not like it’s The Empire in Star Wars. I see a complicated tangle of things. Always remember I am personally going to approach stuff like this as an historian, and historians see contradictory movements and patches of differences, not simple blocs of power.
Power structures replicate themselves at the top. There is a certain Type of personality and character that will prosper in any given hierarchy. I mean, let’s face it. None of us would even get hired by one of those branches of the government. We wouldn’t get through the screening. There are certain beliefs and attitudes that are prerequisites.
Sure, there are variations, and individuals morph in some ways, and so on, but I think I’m closer to WV on this, at least the way I’m reading it.
ZooeyModerator25 is the perfect age – old enough to be treated like an adult, but still young enough to be excused for those moments of immaturity…
Happy B-day.
I thought you were older than that, Nittany.
ZooeyModeratorMike Pence Is Toast: Anonymous Letter To WaPo Shows The Role Of Eric Prince In Trump-Russia
There are a lot of names in that article I would like to see completely ruined politically.
ZooeyModeratorI would never have predicted 10 years ago that a Sanders would get as far as he did.
Really, any optimism has to live right there.
His elevation was actually remarkable.
No party endorsement or support. No financial backing from power interests. Used the word “socialist.” Old guy, fairly high on the Nerd scale.
And he had a LOT of popular, energetic support.
May 30, 2017 at 6:39 am in reply to: PFF: Robert Woods And Jared Goff Working Overtime At OTAs #69475ZooeyModeratorThat is fascinating data. I have never seen anything like that before. Boy, those are results one could live with.
ZooeyModeratorHappy birthday.
I think 27 or 28 was about my favorite age.
Probably didn’t hurt that the Rams were still respectable back then.
ZooeyModeratorOkay, so we have what appears to me to be clear Obstruction of Justice. Twice. By Trump’s own admission. That’s the legal fishhook that led to articles on Nixon and on Clinton.
And we have Flynn and Kushner, at least, who omitted information on a federal form, a felony.
So…what are we waiting for?
My guess is that they aren’t finishing investigating. I mean…impeachment of Trump isn’t the goal of the investigation. The goal of the investigation is to find out what the hell has been going on. All the way.
Seems to me that we ought to have an Independent Investigation to also report on how to protect ourselves from cyber activity in the future.
And how does Pence fit? I have seen suggestions that he is involved in the Russia stuff, but I have never seen anything to support that. AFAIK, he is just the VP who got tacked on because there had to be a VP. I have seen nothing that connects him in the Russia web. You know…apart from his telling the media things that are untrue about it. But there is no evidence yet that he knew it was a lie when he said it.
ZooeyModeratorWe are in a very bad place.
The billionaires dominate the media conversation, and have won the propaganda war. Even if the Dems could flip the House, there is no getting control of the media message. A huge minority of Americans are brainwashed beyond repair, it seems to me, and the problems are not going away even if they can be rolled back slightly.
May 24, 2017 at 8:16 pm in reply to: Donald not at OTAs…now morphed into, do you pay Donald & how much thread #69262ZooeyModeratorI’m not going to OTAs, either, and what do I get? Nothing.
You ran a 9.7 40.
Not sure what you were expecting.
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It was windy.
May 24, 2017 at 6:16 pm in reply to: Donald not at OTAs…now morphed into, do you pay Donald & how much thread #69250ZooeyModeratorI’m not going to OTAs, either, and what do I get? Nothing.
Just another example of the disparities in our system.
ZooeyModerator
ZooeyModeratorIt’s preposterous beyond words.
But we will have our flags wave, and complain about how the government is taking our hard-earned money and giving it to poor people.
ZooeyModeratorPeter King is a fat assed wine sipper.
Fuck him.
I agree. I have them at 28.
ZooeyModerator
Boy. There are times when I wish I could be the world’s grammar and spell checker. Many a great meme is ruined by illiteracy.
Should we discuss the difference between “then/than?”
This t-shirt was almost great. Instead…spectacular failure.
ZooeyModeratorNot against the Rams, they won’t. They will mostly be punting.
ZooeyModeratorMore on how Trump supporters see this thing: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/us/politics/trump-scandal-conservatives-media.html?emc=edit_th_20170518&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=66806393&_r=0&referer
They have a completely alternative reality going, and there is no way to change that. I think we need to be clear about that. We aren’t going to change the minds of those people who have been brainwashed. Our only hope is to change the minds of people who have been apathetic about politics. Those are the potentially persuadable people.
When I was much younger and fairly apathetic about politics I became enamored with JFK. His intelligence, attractiveness, personality, etc. From that point forward I have been given to politics in the form of campaigns, various committees, and so on. I suspect we need someone like that who can-as you wrote- “change the minds” of those uninterested in politics. After all Trump has the personality that turned on a whole lot more people than I ever could imagine. So-we can philosophize about socialism, capitalism, conservatism,liberalism, progressive, etc but to get people out to vote you need “star” quality-and unfortunately Trump had that. Hopefully that future star will have fundamental core beliefs that are far different than the little boy who now is the most powerful leader in the world.
Yeah, I had some hope Obama would be that guy. I was never under any illusion that he would do anything but govern from the center right, but I hoped he might represent the end of the rightward swing of the country, and push the pendulum back towards a swing to the left. He didn’t. And I severely overestimated the possibility of his doing so because I severely underestimated how much racism still lurks in America. I think that a great deal of Trump’s support is a reaction against Obama – and not his policies so much as his race. There are still a lot of people in this country who hate blacks.
May 21, 2017 at 11:08 am in reply to: Right Builds an Alternative Narrative About the Crises Around Trump #69122ZooeyModeratorI dunno.
That may be changing. The internet is getting better and customizing links. So when I go to youtube now, I videos recommended to me that are liberal and leftist etc. I am sure that people who go to Breitbart get links to infowars and conspiracy sites, etc.
May 20, 2017 at 4:37 pm in reply to: Right Builds an Alternative Narrative About the Crises Around Trump #69105ZooeyModeratorYeah, I think there is a big difference between promoting an establishment point of view which is narrow and selective and promoting outright lies, lies of omission, and basically hate speech in order to manipulate a large portion of the population into hostile partisanship.
Those things are not equal.
One of those things can actually be engaged; the other can’t.
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Well, its true Fox is off-the-charts, with their NeoCon/Evangelical sales-pitch.
But what IS the NYTimes? What does it stand for, what does it sell to the public exactly?
My own view is that it essentially sells Obama/Clinton. Neoliberalism.
And there is no neoliberalism without the CIA and the Corporations and the Pentagon and weapons manufacturers and the corporate-media, etc, etc etc. The whole shebang. The NYT is pro ‘system’. Pro ‘corporotacracy’.And what does the corporotacracy do to the biosphere? To the poor?
So is that so much better than what Fox News is all about? Well…yes…i suppose…but still…. blah blah blah yall know my speech by now.
I loathe the NYT.
w
vI go back to what I said.
The NYT can be engaged.
FOX cannot.
A guy like Sanders has pulled the aperture wide enough now that tuition costs and national health care can now be debated respectably. The NYT will be able to give that issue coverage when Sanders introduces his bill.
FOX never will, and nothing you can say will ever persuade a FOX viewer to look at things differently because they are completely misinformed, and have no critical thinking skills through which to reach them. No discussion is possible with that crowd. Is. Not. Possible.
We have pulled NYT people over to our side on this board. And people to the right of NYT.
Too little, too late, perhaps. But still… Not the same thing.
May 20, 2017 at 11:28 am in reply to: Right Builds an Alternative Narrative About the Crises Around Trump #69090ZooeyModeratorYeah, I think there is a big difference between promoting an establishment point of view which is narrow and selective and promoting outright lies, lies of omission, and basically hate speech in order to manipulate a large portion of the population into hostile partisanship.
Those things are not equal.
One of those things can actually be engaged; the other can’t.
May 19, 2017 at 3:29 pm in reply to: Right Builds an Alternative Narrative About the Crises Around Trump #69064ZooeyModeratorI think he has trampled all over their holy service and sacrifice, and shown total disregard for the meaning of all they hold dear. His actions have told them that he doesn’t respect them or value what they do.
I don’t agree with that.
His incompetence jeopardizes what they do.
I don’t think it’s a peevish emotional thing.
He’s brazenly and irremediably incompetent. It fucks things up for them.
And that’s of course whether or not we approve of all the policies he fucks up.
I don’t think it’s peevish, either.
He’s ignorant and incompetent, and he is trashing around the place with disregard for the values they hold – which include steady dependability, among other things.
May 19, 2017 at 2:31 pm in reply to: Right Builds an Alternative Narrative About the Crises Around Trump #69059ZooeyModeratorAnd…..back to the right-wing narrative stuff. A subject I find very interesting. They have a completely different picture of what is going on in Trumpland. They are hearing that Comey is a revengeful prick who will be going to prison sometime in the future, and that all this stuff is backfiring on the liberals and the media.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/18/15646098/right-wing-media-collective-memories
May 19, 2017 at 12:09 pm in reply to: Right Builds an Alternative Narrative About the Crises Around Trump #69047ZooeyModerator=================
I suspect it is more than just ‘he offended’ them. It could be that. But that makes them seem awfully…thin skinned. I have NO idea what the truth is, but it could be more than just ‘personal offense taken’. It could be a deep-state-policy thing.
I dont think we will ever know.
As far as the word ‘conspiracy’ — we are dealing with a secret society, a secret culture, a secret organization — the CIA. So, i dont even know how to leave out the term ‘conspiracy’, or how to even talk about them.
I see it as a pathological organization. Doesnt matter (to me) if a few of them are ‘good people’ or fighting for a less-monstrous-organization. Its no different than Monsanto or Blackwater. I see them as pathological. Reflections of a pathological system in general. I see them the way Smedley Butler saw the powers-that-be.
Again, no ‘heat’ here. I’m just talkin calmly. No big thing.
My views have darkened since about the beginning of the election cycle. Partly because of what i saw the Dems do to Bernie. Partly because of what the corporate media has become — its much worse now than ever. Its essentially nothing but propaganda now. The CIA disgusts me.
w
vI agree with all of that.
By offended, I’m not talking about reaching into the snack bowl with his hands instead of using the tongs.
I think he has trampled all over their holy service and sacrifice, and shown total disregard for the meaning of all they hold dear. His actions have told them that he doesn’t respect them or value what they do.
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