Zooey wrote:

zn wrote:
–
I agree with what Fisher says here.

–

When you look at it, it comes down to four or five plays on both sides of the ball. The three turnovers on offense were costly. It’s difficult to win when you turn it over three times against an explosive offense like the Cowboys. Then defensively, we had three or four plays, one play in particular, the touchdown pass on the communication issue in the coverage. It’s hard to overcome those type of things.

Yes.

I would add, though, that that was the case last year, too. And that most of us thought that this year the Rams would be on the right side of those plays 3 or 4 times out of 5.

That’s just nitpicking.

“No. It was the play we needed. It wasn’t blocked properly. (G) Rodger (Saffold) was supposed to seal the run-through on the middle linebacker and he didn’t. He stayed down on the three-technique. It’s potentially a big play. It was a mistake.”

Once again.

We sit here in electronics land, calling something coaching.

You look close, and it’s execution.

This press conference, IMO, is must read. It will be controversial, I think, but still. Personally, I think it’s all completely credible.

Another example:

(On the fumbled snap exchange from C Scott Wells)
“It was a communication issue up front. A lot of stuff going on up front. Between Scott and the quarterback changing protections, sliding protection, making sure you’ve got things picked up. Play clock was running down and Scott thought it was time to go and Austin stepped aside to change the protection because he saw something. So he actually was getting ready. He started the snap process and he tried to pull it back and he lost it. It wasn’t a presumption that he was under center, no.”

Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher – September 22, 2014

(Opening statement)
“We spent a lot of time looking at this today and I guess the disappointing thing is that we have nearly 450 yards total offense and you score the points that we scored and it wasn’t enough. When you look at it, it comes down to four or five plays on both sides of the ball. The three turnovers on offense were costly. It’s difficult to win when you turn it over three times against an explosive offense like the Cowboys. Then defensively, we had three or four plays, one play in particular, the touchdown pass on the communication issue in the coverage. It’s hard to overcome those type of things. I think, as I said to the team and as we agreed wholeheartedly with the staff, we took a step forward. I thought we played much better yesterday than the previous two weeks, which is encouraging. We just have to continue to build from that. We’ve got some time to make some little adjustments and look at what we’re doing and get some things corrected and continue to improve. I’m also happy to report that we didn’t have any injuries of significance in the ball game, nothing that will cause anybody to miss any practice time or anything, so that was good news considering the loss.”

(On if there should be as big of a disparity in the number of penalties called between two teams like there was Sunday)
“Believe me, I looked at them. I’m disappointed. We had several of them that are not fouls, probably four in particular. The (DE) Eugene Sims play is not a foul. It was a huge play. We have a sack and we have a third-and-22. If we create an incomplete pass, they’re punting out of the end zone at that time in the game, huge field position swing. So, that’s an incorrect call. Then we get the ball back in a good four-minute defensive effort. The ball is punted away and we got the ball at the 24, but we are penalized for holding on the punt return, Janoris (Jenkins), and there’s no foul there in my opinion. So, that’s a huge field position swing considering we started that drive on the 14-yard line. So I’m disappointed in that. The roughing the passer, you all saw that wasn’t roughing the passer. We understand why those things are happening because they’re expected to protect the quarterback. That was an issue. I didn’t like the hold either on (WR) Kenny Britt. I didn’t think that was a foul. The guy fell down. In addition to that, on the long touchdown pass, they pulled (DT) Kendall (Langford) down. So it should have been a holding penalty on the long touchdown pass, so that pass comes back. But again, to answer your question, the disparity? I don’t know. In my opinion, there were a dozen or so, maybe more, offensive holds that weren’t called by the Cowboys. The penalties didn’t create our turnovers. The penalties didn’t cause the interception return for a touchdown. We weren’t penalized when we fumbled the snap at midfield. We can control the things that we can control and we didn’t do it well enough to win this game.”

(On if he knows how many times the Rams’ opponents have been called for offensive holding this season)
“I think we’ve had one in three games. How many have been missed? The hold that was missed on Minnesota’s touchdown pass in the end zone on (DE) Rob (Quinn), that was missed. That was a touchdown. We had the false starts that weren’t called on the touchdown last week at Tampa. Then we had this hold on the touchdown (against Dallas). So, technically we’ve had three defensive touchdowns scored against us that were improperly officiated. Again, that didn’t create a 1-2 start. We look at what we can control and I feel this team is improving.”

(On if he got an explanation on Sims’ hold penalty)
“No. I’m not going to go into it. The explanation is, it’s obvious it’s not a foul.”

(On how can explain the difference in the amount of penalties called from game to game)
“I’m not happy with the penalties. As of late, our penalty numbers are up, but I can make that we might have had four yesterday, instead of eight. I think we’re mindful of it. We’re working on it. We’re not allowing it to happen on the practice field. We’re coaching it better, so hopefully we’ll get some results.”

(On the roughing the passer on Sims and if the rule that it has to be a forceable hit)
“Yes.”

(On if he received an explanation on that call)
“Yes.”

(On if he would mind sharing that explanation with the media)
“No (laughs).”

(On if he agreed with the call)
“I just told you, I disagree with the call. Everybody that saw that, would disagree with that call.”

(On if there is anything subconscious that could be going on with the referees when calling Rams games)
“I can’t explain it. I don’t know. They’re going to make mistakes. It’s a fast game, it’s hard to officiate. I don’t think it’s a Ram thing, it’s a team thing, or anything along those lines.”

(On if there has to be restrictive movement on a hold in reference to the hold call on Sims)
“Like I said, I was hopeful last night that maybe he got the jersey number wrong and it was someone else that was holding, but he didn’t.”

(On the fourth-and-1 play call that they didn’t convert and if it was because it was slow developing)
“No. It was the play we needed. It wasn’t blocked properly. (G) Rodger (Saffold) was supposed to seal the run-through on the middle linebacker and he didn’t. He stayed down on the three-technique. It’s potentially a big play. It was a mistake.”

(On if that play was similar to the play call from the fourth-and-1 they had converted earlier in the game)
“Yes. We’re not shy about it…you can tell, the way we set things up in some of our runs where it’s no secret to what we’re doing and that’s ok. Good running teams do that. We just didn’t execute there. I’m sure the defense made a play…you get the first down if you block it right.”

(On where the breakdown in mechanics occurred on the touchdown to Dallas WR Dez Bryant)
“It was supposed to be passed off, but it was not communicated.”

(On what S Rodney McLeod can do to prevent that situation)
“He can tell the corner that he’s going to take the crossing route. He didn’t.”

(On if McLeod can communicate that during the play)
“Yes. It happens, often.”

(On if that is product of the defense still learning the new system)
“No, I think it was just that they recognized the splits within the coverage – that’s something that we do – and I just think E.J. (Gaines) just didn’t see it. He didn’t recognize it. We had three issues, both corners and the safety could have played it different.”

(On why they would use a lot of three-down fronts when they are deep in talent at defensive line)
“We’re doing different things, showing different looks, throwing different pressures at them. We wanted to put some pressure on (Dallas Tony (Romo) and get the ball out. We did pressures. We did some doubles and things like that with them.”

(On if he saw the exchange between TE Jared Cook and QB Austin Davis on the sideline)
“I was aware of it. I knew it happened on the sideline. (DE) Will (Hayes) got involved. ‘Cookie’ (TE Jared Cook) was frustrated. He was mad that he dropped that ball. That’s kind of the heat of the battle stuff, but they’re fine. They were fine immediately after.”

(On having Jenkins shadow Bryant throughout the game and if that’s a sign that they trust him more)
“We’ve done it before. We did it last year. We don’t do it every week. Dez was a big part of our defensive game plan and Janoris loves those challenges, so we thought it was our best chance to win this week.”

(On how CB Janoris Jenkins played)
“I thought he played well. He has the defensive pass interference call and that’s a huge play. In the play, in the blitz we asked him to cover a double move where the quarterback is to reload the ball. I can’t fault him on that because our young nickel back (S Lamarcus Joyner) took a real late, poor course to the quarterback – would have been unblocked probably would have had a sack. He certainly wouldn’t have had a chance to pull the ball down and throw it down the field. When you see one thing you just say ‘oh, that’s not good out there’ Well, there’s always a reason something happens and that’s what happened inside. Lamarcus has to do a better job on that play.”

(On his thoughts on the passing of former Titans kicker Rob Bironokas)
“It came as a real shock. Very early yesterday morning I got the text. Just a very sad, sad deal. Rob was really like I said, he was a great teammate. He was fun to be around. People don’t realize everything that he did off the field in the community. He was really involved with the charity and the music industries and such. I wanted to make sure that not only his family but the Bradshaw family knew we were thinking about him.”

(On QB Austin Davis)
“Gosh, I thought he had a pretty good day. Threw the ball around, moved around, avoided sacks in the pocket. I thought he played, like I said last night, good enough to win, but you got to see where you’re cutting that ball loose and he didn’t. He cut that ball loose, he got some pressure and cut it loose. Interception for a touchdown is not a good thing. It happens, but overall I thought he played a little bit better than he did last week.”

(On how close a call it was to have Davis’ start before the game)
“Shaun, (Hill) it was not an issue. Again Shaun probably could have…we kept him up as the two because I felt like he could finish a game out of the shotgun. But he’s not ready to go under center yet.”

(On if Davis has earned a third start)
“We’ll see how things go this week. We’ll see how Shaun is, but as I’ve maintained Shaun is our starter and Austin is our backup.”

(On the second interception and if he blamed the throw at all)
“(WR Brian) Quick, he slowed down a little bit and jumped late. No, it’s a great play by the defensive back. You’ve got some time left, you’ve got a check down, we’re getting close to field goal range and you can check the ball down and continue to move the ball. Based on what happened earlier in the game, the two big plays he made earlier, he felt at that time would give us a chance to make a significant gain. I’d like to see Brian play the ball a little bit better than that.”

(On the defense and concerns overall)
“We’ve got to get better against the run. We’re inconsistent. Some plays we’ll…obviously you see tackles for losses, a swarming defense and we’re giving up too many big plays in the run game. This was the first deep ball we’ve given up this year and disappointed in that. So from a deep ball standpoint we’re doing alright. I think we could improve significantly on third down. We’re not getting the turnovers and we’re not getting the quarterback right now. When you have reputation for being able to get there, people, they coach you different and they get the ball out.”

(On the pass rush)
“We’re getting good pressure. Ball’s coming out because we’re forcing a shorter passing game. We’re getting pressure. We’re just not getting there. It’ll come. We’ve got the guys who can do it. Like I said, when teams know that you can rush, that’s a concern of theirs, they’re going to run the football. Obviously try and stay in manageable third down situations and not going to hold on to it. Because if you hold onto it you’re going to get hit.”

(On if there are certain risks that Defensive Coordinator Gregg Williams takes with the defense)
“No more so than anything we’ve done here the last couple years. We just haven’t gotten our self in a situation where we’re going to defend a two-minute drive at the end or get up significantly where people have to throw the football. When they do, then I would expect us to get some good pass rush.”

(On the absence of DE Chris Long)
“I thought (DE) Will (Hayes) played much better this week than he did last week. So, of course you miss Chris but we’ve got depth here. (DE) Eugene (Sims) is playing good football right now as is (DE) Rob (Quinn).”

(On what they’re going to do during the bye week)
“We’re going to…the staff is addressing in some of the things that we need to work on. Whether that’s third down or third and long defensively or the red zone stuff, or the two-minute stuff. We’re going to look at all of that. The specifics in the run game. Protections and what we’re doing defensively. And then we carry that over on to the field. We’ll do that Wednesday and Thursday. We’ll do a little bit of some things on Thursday that we haven’t been able to work on just because of the nature of the preparation weeks. Read option, we’ll start taking a look at Philadelphia. That’s typically what you do. In addition to that we’ll get some younger guys some reps. We’ll get Case (Keenum) some reps this week in the offense. Some of the younger guys. Got to get Tre Mason involved, not only more in the offense but also more on special teams, things like that.”

(On the status of CB Trumaine Johnson and C Barrett Jones)
“They’re getting closer we’ll see. I think we’ve got a real good shot with (WR) Tavon (Austin). I think we’ll have a pretty good shot with Shaun (Hill) and we’ll just see where it goes.”

(On the fumbled snap exchange from C Scott Wells)
“It was a communication issue up front. A lot of stuff going on up front. Between Scott and the quarterback changing protections, sliding protection, making sure you’ve got things picked up. Play clock was running down and Scott thought it was time to go and Austin stepped aside to change the protection because he saw something. So he actually was getting ready. He started the snap process and he tried to pull it back and he lost it. It wasn’t a presumption that he was under center, no.”

(On what he sees from the team)
“I said earlier, I see a team that’s improving, that probably played it’s best game of the year in all three phases. That had four or five critical errors on offense and defense that cost us the game. They’re playing hard, they’re playing physical, and they’re mad. And that’s good.”

wv wrote:

If they get routed after two weeks to prepare,
I’m gonna start watching Oprah on sundays.

w
v

The Eagles just might be THAT good.

There were some bad ones in that game.

Who has a list.

rfl wrote:

zn wrote:
Well yeah I think it can be defended, under the idea that they made bad mistakes last year against Dallas and improved, and will likely do the same this year. I saw breakdowns; I don’t think I saw the start to finish, every down catastrophe you did.

But…you’re venting, right? So it’s not really a discussion. That’s not supposed to sound like anything. I think it was a very demoralizing loss. That doesn’t always lead to discussion. Which is fine. All part of the process.

Venting? I guess so.

But let’s not blame the victim … the disgusted fan.

Nor did I say it was a “start to finish, every down catastrophe.” That’s not the only way to badly screw up a game.

What I saw was worse. This isn’t a talentless bunch of sad sacks.

It is a team with a lot of talent vacillating wildly between results. “Breakdowns”? Yeah. I guess. Heartless, gutless, unforgivable ones. And here’s the constant:

They cannot get off the field in important drives. Case in point.

They had DAL 3 and 14 on their own 10 or so. I think it was when they had the 1 point lead.

They drop TWO interior DL into the zones and rush 2. Not a zone blitz ’cause no one else came. Two freaking guys rushing Romo.

He steps up, finds a complete vacuum, and trots for the 1 down. DAL goes on to score.

A breakdown, eh? You can call it that if you want. After almost 3 months in training, 4 PS and 3 regular season games. I guess they just weren’t sure what they were doing. They need more time, right?

You know what, man? Quality football is about being consistent. You can’t look at 1.5 quarters of containing the run, then at 2 plays which changed the game–easy 39 yards rushing–and say, “Well we contained the RB until those 2 plays …”

They count. They bloody well count. In the NFL, 6-7 big plays on offense add up to lots of points. A good defense does not simply give it up on half a dozen plays and say, “Well, we were fine apart from those breakdowns.” That’s not how the league works. You can’t do splits with stats and say, “Well, toss out those 7 plays and we were good.” That is not the way football teams learn to win. That thinking is for losers.

This defense has not yet through 7 games shown the ability to get key stops in games. It hasn’t. It stinks as a defense. It is performing at a level far below that of the offense with its 3rd strong QB and patchwork OL. It is losing games virtually on its own, and would have lost last week had Lovie not blown a time out.

Am I venting? Sure.

And part of my frustration is with the smokescreen pumped out by the HC and organization and supported by too many fans that this is a good defense that is having understandable developmental issues.

It stinks. Can we at least admit that? Can we simply say that the defensive performance yesterday, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, was unacceptable?

Except I’m not blaming you. You weren’t being “accused” of anything.

And, you know, seeing things differently…even slightly differently…isn’t a matter of someone “not admitting” something. It’s just a difference, right or wrong. If people didn’t see things like this differently, then we would only need to nominate a poster of the week to type up the consensus view while the rest of us all agreed.

Well, let’s look at this a bit at a time. You say rushing the passer is no longer a strength. I don’t look at it that way. I see teams negating the pass rush at the gameplan level. And even that’s not what hurt them, because if another team is planning that heavily around the pass rush, then, that means they are cutting back on something else. (Plus Robert Quinn has never gotten a sack against Tyron Smith. There’s a reason Smith is so highly regarded.)

So if you look at how the D played, there were several breakdowns, some not caused by the Rams. Like McCleod letting Bryant run right by him. And some very untimely penalties that had HUGE effects. Some of those were clearly bogus.

And people complain about Murray. Tenn and SF both had good defenses last year, and Murray averaged 5+ something a carry against them. In fact it’s 51 attempts, 285 yards, which is 5.6 yards a carry…Rams allowed 100 on 24 carries which is 4.17.

So you have Murray running behind one of the best offensive lines in the game, and Rams actually did better against him than 2 defenses that were ranked higher last year than the Rams were.

Dallas is THAT tough on offense this year, but it tooks some Rams breakdowns as officiating issues for Dallas to beat them.

These are just wandering thoughts. I have no Final Conclusion. As a rule, people tell you, over the years, I don’t take bad losses as badly as many others do. (And it’s not because I think I am “more rational,” or anything like that. It’s just that my emotional make-up is slightly different over this kind of thing.) So I like to chip away at the first impression picture, and see what remains. It’s supposed to help make for good conversation. The thing I like about good conversation is, you can never predict where it will go.

Well yeah I think it can be defended, under the idea that they made bad mistakes last year against Dallas and improved, and will likely do the same this year. I saw breakdowns; I don’t think I saw the start to finish, every down catastrophe you did.

But…you’re venting, right? So it’s not really a discussion. That’s not supposed to sound like anything. I think it was a very demoralizing loss. That doesn’t always lead to discussion. Which is fine. All part of the process.

placeholder

Zooey wrote:

I will say one thing about Davis. He seems to go through progressions better than Bradford does.

Oh I don’t believe that for a second. Bradford went through progressions, and if anything, they have scaled back the number of options Davis has per pass play. What Davis has that Bradford didn’t is the 2014 Rams receiving corps…which is just better.

Zooey wrote:

I am forgiving Cook for this.

Yeah.

Heat of the moment.

I think we saw plenty of clutch from this kid

I wasn’t talking about “clutch” in general. I was talking about 4th quarter comebacks when behind with a win possible–in my own words, I was talking about “the end of games when they are down but can win.”

I just prefer being objective about this, and objectively, he did not come through. To me that’s a criticism. I don’t see the point in skimping out on legit criticism.

But it doesn’t matter either way. I didn’t say I would make the #1 or NOT make him the #1 based on the Dallas game…the Dallas game was always going to have no effect either way on my view of who the #1 qb is.

I am glad they are going with the vet, and I am glad the kid performed well enough for some to question that. Nice problem to have. If they vet can’t do it, they can always go back to the kid.

That’s always going to be my view, Grits though I am probably not going to keep repeating it. We just see this one differently.

Eternal Ramnation wrote:

zn wrote:
He managed the game well for most of 4 quarters. Made some nice plays. He was one of the reasons they were ahead.

He’s not the reason they got behind.

But.

If there’s one thing I put HEAVILY on the qb, it’s performance in crunch time, at the end of games when they are down but can win.

Under those conditions he threw 2 INTs.

That either means he doesn’t have it, or is still raw and young and making crucial mistakes.

To let him off the hook for that is not being objective, IMO.

What I am most interested in, though, in these discussions is a genuinely open and objective comparison of the 2 qbs–that is, THEIR PLAY. Not their bios, or how they are on the sideline, and so on. Their PLAY. If someone can’t do that it’s only because they have not seen enough of both players to actually compare them.

I have nothing against Davis and am happy to be objective about both qbs.

However, I think what actually happened is–Davis did nothing to take the #1 spot away from Hill.

If Hill can’t come through then it’s back to Davis.

Wasn’t Hill’s last throw a clutch situation ?

Hill was injured, ER. Tried to throw it out of bounds but because of the quad, didn’t have the heft to do it.

And no, I was specifically talking about end of the game comebacks. Not “clutch situations” in general. Heck before the 2010 draft, I went back to check the boxscores on all of Bradford’s games where they were in 4th quarter comeback situations. That was part of what I talked about with him, back then. This has always been important to me. It’s the time in a game when the most is put on a qb’s passing.

nittany ram wrote:

zn wrote:

nittany ram wrote:

GreatRamNTheSky wrote:
I wouldn’t over blow the Cook thing. I don’t think he realized who was trying to talk to him and was just super pissed about dropping a TD Pass.

Grits

I agree. Emotions were high and Cook was upset at himself. Doesn’t excuse taking it out on the QB who did nothing but place a beautiful throw right in his hands but, like I said, emotions were high. I mean, if teams start cutting every prima dona that acts like a prima dona, then football fields are going to look mighty empty on Sundays.

Well, #1, he knew damn well who it was. #2, we’ve seen Rams be frustrated at leaving plays on the field before. Not one of them since we began following the game took it out on a team mate on the sideline like that. In my own reaction to what Cook did, I agree with William Hayes.

I agree with what Hayes did too but I wouldn’t cut Cook over it.

Oh I wouldn;t cut him.

First I wouldn;t cut him on principle.

BUt also…his contract forbids it. They lose a lot of cap space if they cut him.

He managed the game well for most of 4 quarters. Made some nice plays. He was one of the reasons they were ahead.

He’s not the reason they got behind.

But.

If there’s one thing I put HEAVILY on the qb, it’s performance in crunch time, at the end of games when they are down but can win.

Under those conditions he threw 2 INTs.

That either means he doesn’t have it, or is still raw and young and making crucial mistakes.

To let him off the hook for that is not being objective, IMO.

What I am most interested in, though, in these discussions is a genuinely open and objective comparison of the 2 qbs–that is, THEIR PLAY. Not their bios, or how they are on the sideline, and so on. Their PLAY. If someone can’t do that it’s only because they have not seen enough of both players to actually compare them.

I have nothing against Davis and am happy to be objective about both qbs.

However, I think what actually happened is–Davis did nothing to take the #1 spot away from Hill.

If Hill can’t come through then it’s back to Davis.