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wvParticipant…and they were unanimous in saying that Russia interfered in 2016 and are trying to subvert the election now. Again, this is his own, hand-picked crew. …
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Ok, but you already know my thing on this. How do you ‘subvert’ a corporotacray’s ‘election.’
It was already subverted before it began. The corporate money and corporate propaganda, and corporate media and corporate support systems already subverted it.
I mean what was left for the russians to subvert? Putin wanted Trump instead of Hillary. He wanted corporate-puppet A instead of corporate puppet B.
I suppose thats a type of subversion…but..really? A ‘big story’ ?
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vwvParticipantAs every competent entomologist knows,
that asphalt road is on the route of what is known as The great Caterpillar Pilgrimage. Every year billions of caterpillars make the pilgrimage to Point Pleasant West Virginia, to visit the site of their God, the MothMan.I’m surprised you didnt know that. Maybe science just isnt your thing.
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vwvParticipantWell i agree with the thrust of that article, as yall know.
I dont think i agree that trump is putin’s puppet though. I think putin and trump share some ideas, and disagree on some things. I think they will cooperate sometimes and will be at odds sometimes.
My own personal thing is…I am like Moe hearing the words “niagra falls” when i hear the DEM-msm talking about russia. Its so obviously a hypocritical bullshit stance coming from THEM. It appalls me. Sets me off. Ni..ag..ra Falls…step by step….
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vWell…I don’t think Trump is Putin’s puppet in a “Your wish is my command” sort of way. Putin can’t “order him around.” I think – as Billy said – he owes whatever solvency he has to Putin though. They basically conduct business together with Trump being a junior partner in each transaction. Putin arranged loans, and set Trump up with revenue in order to launder money of Russian oligarchs, and perhaps more importantly, has the ability to shut Trump down financially. Furthermore, I don’t think Putin wants a puppet per se. He isn’t trying to run the United States. He is trying to manage and expand his own empire, and Trump proves more useful in that regard than, say, Hillary Clinton would have. Or any of the other candidates. He has real leverage on Trump, and he is using it. But he can’t just say, “Say ‘this.’ Do that. Walk in front of the Queen. Break up with Angela Merkel.” But he has Trump’s full attention, and he uses it wisely, and Trump gave him a heads up before they blew up some of Syria.
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I dunno, Z. Maybe, but I dunno. I dont trust anyone’s view of Putin these days. I dont trust my “OWN” view of Putin. I’m not sure we really understand him.
For example i hear things like “putin is trying to expand his empire” — and maybe there is some evidence of that — but there’s other narratives that might be true as well. And one of those narratives is that he’s not ‘expanding’ his ’empire’ at all. He’s just trying to resist the never-ending American-Expansion. I mean where is this russian empire exactly?
I think to really understand Putin we have to separate his domestic authoritarianism from his foreign policy. I think those two things get conflated a lot. People know he’s a repressive-authoritarian (in some ways) and then they assume that means his foreign policy is malevolent. But there’s lots of reasonable narratives on this stuff. Lots of complexities. I aint ready to jump on any of the mostly-american-narratives just yet.
Putin fascinates me. Zn likes to point out we dont have much info from the russian dissidents. True, but that wouldnt really affect the analysis of putin’s Foreign policy. The dissidents would have a lot to say about Putin’s domestic policy. Which we already know is repressive in some ways. Though Putin has also done good stuff in russia. Its not easy to put all this together. I resist the simple narratives on Putin.
Trump is way more easy to understand in my view. He’s Vince McMahon with Power. There’s just so much less to trump than his office would imply.
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vwvParticipantWell i agree with the thrust of that article, as yall know.
I dont think i agree that trump is putin’s puppet though. I think putin and trump share some ideas, and disagree on some things. I think they will cooperate sometimes and will behttp://theramshuddle.com/reply/88882/edit/ at odds sometimes.
My own personal thing is…I am like Moe hearing the words “niagra falls” when i hear the DEM-msm talking about russia. Its so obviously a hypocritical bullshit stance coming from THEM. It appalls me. Sets me off. Ni..ag..ra Falls…step by step….
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vI agree about a lot of that, WV. I don’t think Trump is Putin’s puppet, per se. But he does exhibit a strange reluctance to ever, ever criticize him by name. Trump shows no such reluctance when it comes to a host of Americans, black and brown people, NFL players, NBA players, Democrats, European leaders, NATO, the EU and the Media. And not only is he okay criticizing everyone but Putin, he seems to love going after them aggressively, viciously, and without concern for their safety. See his most recent rally and the mob surrounding Jim Acosta from CNN.
I think it’s safe to say that Trump owes a lot to Putin. The evidence points to that being the survival of the Trump family business. He had gone bankrupt six times and was pretty much down for the count. No one would lend to him, because he stiffed so many banks.
Suddenly, out of nowhere, he was buying up golf courses and other real estate with cash. Out of the blue. His son Eric said it was Russian money, and I think Mueller has all the evidence he needs to prove this.
To me, it’s always been about debt to Putin. Business arrangements. Owing a ton to him. And the illegalities involved whenever anyone deals with oligarchs from any country, including America. It’s not a question of “treason,” in my view. It’s a question of Trump’s repeated breaking of the law, before, during and after the campaign.
He needs to be held accountable.
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Yeah, i tend to agree mostly.
We could talk about Trump forever. And its hard not to think about what he ‘represents’. What he’s a ‘reflection of.’
Just seems like, if yer gonna end up in the late-stages of a Corporotacracy, yer gonna end up with a Reagan, and a Bush, and a Clinton-Obama…and a Trump.
Wouldnt surprise me if we ended up with a Bernie as well. But I think the Bernie part would be temporary and wouldnt really change the trajectory of things.
How in the world could a corporotacracy be reversed, Billy? How in the world could that ever happen? Magic? 🙂
Too many people are too ‘dummed-down’ now. There aint enuff people who see through enuff of the propaganda.
At any rate, in the meantime Trump is like the crazy captain on the old star trek show. The one that was zooming the ship full speed ahead toward the planet-killer in space.
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vwvParticipantWell i agree with the thrust of that article, as yall know.
I dont think i agree that trump is putin’s puppet though. I think putin and trump share some ideas, and disagree on some things. I think they will cooperate sometimes and will be at odds sometimes.
My own personal thing is…I am like Moe hearing the words “niagra falls” when i hear the DEM-msm talking about russia. Its so obviously a hypocritical bullshit stance coming from THEM. It appalls me. Sets me off. Ni..ag..ra Falls…step by step….
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vwvParticipantwvParticipantAlso there’s this:
“…Hersh tells me: “I don’t necessarily buy the story that Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11. We really don’t have an ending to the story. I’ve known people in the [intelligence] community. We don’t know anything empirical about who did what”. He continues: “The guy was living in a cave. He really didn’t know much English. He was pretty bright and he had a lot of hatred for the US. We respond by attacking the Taliban. Eighteen years later… How’s it going guys?”
wvParticipantwvParticipantwvParticipantLooks like around a third of all the land in the US is used for livestock – either as pasture or for growing their food.
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And as i understand it, the meat-biz is causing more global-warming than the gasoline-biz. And it aint even close. So i read, anywayz.
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vwvParticipantFisk on the enigma wrapped in a matrix tossed down a rabbit hole — Syria.
Are We About to Witness the Last Battle of the Syrian War?
by Robert Fisk“…
…….Thanks to Donald Trump, it’s all over for the “rebels” of Syria because they have been betrayed by the Americans – surely and finally by Trump himself in those secret discussions with Vladimir Putin in Helsinki, perhaps the most important of the “unknowns” of that translators-only chat – as they have by the Gulf Arabs.Three weeks earlier, the Americans had told the rebels of southwestern Syria below the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights that they were on their own, and could expect no more military assistance. Even the White Helmets, the first-responder heroes or propagandists of the rebel war (take your pick, but be sure they will soon be described as “controversial”) have been rescued with their families from the rebel lines by the Israelis and dispatched to safety in Jordan.
The Israelis are a bit miffed that they weren’t thanked by the White Helmets’ civil defence units for their humanitarian assistance – but what do they expect when they spent their time attacking Iranian, Hezbollah and Syrian forces during the war, supplying medical aid to the Nusrah Islamist fighters who came to their lines and never – ever – bombed Isis? Do the White Helmets want to be associated with Israel right now?
But the Israelis got what they really wanted: a Russian promise that the Iranians will stay far away from the Israeli-occupied Syrian Golan plateau. It’s all a bit odd, since there are precious few Iranian troops in Syria – and you can forget the humbug from the Washington “experts” – but it fits in with Benjamin Netanyahu’s morbid and theatrical conviction that Iran is “a noose of terror” round Israel’s neck. In any event, Putin knows a thing or two about the Syrian war: bombs talk, but so does cash……see link….”
wvParticipantJesse on, Syria and some stuff.
wvParticipant“whitopia”
wvParticipantI thought that one was extraordinarily good.
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Yeah, itz kinda what public-defender-types do. That ‘moving backwards in time’ thing. Context.
Whereas prosecutor-types tend to just look at the behavior from a few seconds prior to the incident. A snapshot.
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vwvParticipantWell he didnt say how we know there is such a thing as anti-matter. If we dont see any in the universe why do we believe there is such a thing?
Also, if there are anti-rams-fans, then why dont they just explode and be done with it?
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vJuly 28, 2018 at 5:36 pm in reply to: Leaked Emails Show Republicans, Big Business Colluded to Gerrymander Michigan Di #88644wvParticipantYes. See to me, that is part of the ‘big story’ on US ‘elections’.
Russian interference? Sure. A story? Sure. But the BIG-HUGE-GIGANTIC story is not russian interference. The big story is simply what ‘elections’ are in a Corporotacracy.
And weve talked about ‘that’ story on this board since 1998. All the various factors and levels of factors that go into dumming-down the public, distracting the public, making sure big-money determines outcomes, creating a media that protects the system at all costs, etc, etc, etc.
The gerrymandering thing is part of the BIG-story, I’d say. A small part of the BIG-STORY.
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vTo me gerrymandering IS the big story. If it did not exist the Freedom Caucus and the republicans would not control congress and that IS big !
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Fair enough. I’ll go along with that. Its a big story.
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Andrew Greeley (Chicago Sun-Times, February 18, 2001):
“It should be no surprise that when rich men take control of the government, they pass laws that are favorable to themselves. The surprise is that those who are not rich vote for such people, even though they should know from bitter experience that the rich will continue to rip off the rest of us. Perhaps the reason is that rich men are very clever at covering up what they do.”wvParticipantFloating plastic. I dunno.
Inspired by organic bird murmurations. Plastic. In the air.
I think i wanna go on record as not liking it.
I blame the corporotacracy.
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vJuly 27, 2018 at 11:36 am in reply to: Leaked Emails Show Republicans, Big Business Colluded to Gerrymander Michigan Di #88587wvParticipantYes. See to me, that is part of the ‘big story’ on US ‘elections’.
Russian interference? Sure. A story? Sure. But the BIG-HUGE-GIGANTIC story is not russian interference. The big story is simply what ‘elections’ are in a Corporotacracy.
And weve talked about ‘that’ story on this board since 1998. All the various factors and levels of factors that go into dumming-down the public, distracting the public, making sure big-money determines outcomes, creating a media that protects the system at all costs, etc, etc, etc.
The gerrymandering thing is part of the BIG-story, I’d say. A small part of the BIG-STORY.
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vwvParticipant“n West Virginia, the leader of that state’s teacher strike, Richard Ojeda, is waging a strong campaign to take an open House seat long held by Republicans. Ojeda, a Democratic state senator who voted for Trump himself, is running as an out and out progressive populist…”
This is brilliant. Politically brilliant. Its by far, the single best approach i have ever read, to the abortion issue in a red-state like WV.
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vIt’s the only possible approach, and it seems to be a good one. Besides which…it’s about time America was given the lens of Class Consciousness to perceive the world. Might help with a lot of things.
I remember the name Ojeda. He pronounces his last name in an Anglicized way, right? Oh-jay-da instead of Oh-hay-da.
I want the GOP wiped out, btw. I want that party permanently crippled. Democrats would serve nicely as the conservative party since they are to the right of St. Ronald anyway. Then maybe DSA could become the second major party. I can dream.
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Well i quoted the wrong part when i said his approach was brilliant. This is teh approach i thot was brilliant:
‘…Ojeda is so good that he manages to redefine social issues as class issues. Speaking at a pro-choice rally in Charleston, Ojeda told the crowd that he didn’t really like abortion, but that if it were outlawed, rich women would still get abortions.
West Virginians knew exactly what he meant…”Finally, some SMART progressives. Some of these folks are a lot of fun to watch.
Granted they are not ‘radicals’ and they often seem to fall in line with the deep-state on foreign policy etc — but at this point, ya take what ya can get, in the land of the blind.
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vwvParticipantYeah, I’m having a lot of fun watching these young, new progressives. I’m not optimistic about changing the Dem-Corp-Party but its fun to finally see, even a handful of actual progressives playing the game smartly.
Without Bernie’s run at the nomination last time, i dunno if any of this is happening.
While I’m watching all this, I’m also trying to figure out what strategies the Dem-Corps will use to destroy this new threat.
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vwvParticipantI dont care about any of this. I dont even care if the Rams go 0-16.
What i DO care about is seeing Aaron F’ing Donald and Neanterthal Suh PLAY next to each other. I WANT to SEE that. I want to see the dogs of war unleashed. I want to see Ruination. Carnage. Slaughter. Shock and Woe.
Thats all i care about. I dont care about cooks, gurley, or russians.
So wake me up when AD signs.
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vYep, and you didn’t even mention the secondary.
The combination of a crushing pass rush and no open receivers is going to be something. I don’t know if they can live up to expectations, but on paper, this is a compelling team.
Now if they can only stop TEs, that would be great. I’m guessing teams will try to attack the LBs with dink and dunk.
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Yeah. I wonder what teams are just built to give the Rams real trouble. I would think it would be a team with an outstanding OLine. Maybe a team that can pound the rock? A team with a great Defense themselves that can shut down the Rams O.
I’d love to see how Belichex would attack this D.
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vwvParticipantI agree that Behar was good in the moment, but it seemed like McCain just talked over her. I also agree that “pedantic” won’t win hearts and minds, nor will wonkiness, a Democratic Party specialty.
But I’m st1ill not convinced that blurring the lines between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism is the right way to go.
What’s your take on that, WV? Do you see that as the best strategy? If not, what is your preferred method/best practices, when it comes to this topic?
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Well BT, your guess is as good as mine. I dunno. I know that it depends on yer audience. Ya know. And the general tv-audience that watches THAT show is…I’m guessing… essentially MSM-Dems. Do they care about the distinction between Socialist-Dem and Dem-Socialist? I suspect that would lose their attention, and sound pedantic and the rightwinger would just roll over them with the usual “Venezuela! Stalin!” type shit.
I think Ocasio and Bernie and the Justice-Dems are getting it mostly right (given the limited Political-IQ of the voting public). They just harp on specific issues. Medicare for All. Free College. (although i think they need a better term than ‘free college.’ That term raises alarm bells with conservative types)
When the corpse-media asks them what is a socialist? Isnt it a murderous treasonous thing? They just calmly go “It means I’m for medicare for all, free college, a higher minimum wage, etc”
I wonder if it would behoove them to connect themselves with FDR? I dunno.
(I mean they arent ‘really’ socialists but who cares. They are as far left as we can go right now, today, in the US)I also think I have never ever seen a Clinton-Dem do what that lady just did in that vid. The listing of the Norwegian nations. I…have…not…seen that before in that context. Ever. To me thats…..noteworthy. And yes the vile Rep talked over it and didnt address it…which is a good sign. She couldnt handle it. That list.
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vwvParticipantwvParticipantOne Thing i liked though, was when the Pro-Hillary-liberal was challenged with the usual “Where has socialism ever worked?”, she calmly listed Scandanavian nations. She didnt get all flustered or get all pedantic and boring. It was a good answer. And coming from her, it shocked me to be honest. I took it as a sign maybe the libs are getting a little better at this socialism discussion thing. I dunno.
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vwvParticipantwvParticipantI dont care about any of this. I dont even care if the Rams go 0-16.
What i DO care about is seeing Aaron F’ing Donald and Neanterthal Suh PLAY next to each other. I WANT to SEE that. I want to see the dogs of war unleashed. I want to see Ruination. Carnage. Slaughter. Shock and Woe.
Thats all i care about. I dont care about cooks, gurley, or russians.
So wake me up when AD signs.
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vwvParticipantpolice:https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-07-police-related-fatalities.html#nRlv
New study finds police-related fatalities may occur twice as often as reported
July 24, 2018 by Stephen D’angelo, Cornell UniversitywvParticipant“n West Virginia, the leader of that state’s teacher strike, Richard Ojeda, is waging a strong campaign to take an open House seat long held by Republicans. Ojeda, a Democratic state senator who voted for Trump himself, is running as an out and out progressive populist…”
This is brilliant. Politically brilliant. Its by far, the single best approach i have ever read, to the abortion issue in a red-state like WV.
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vwvParticipantwvParticipant -
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