Well, i have a weird embarrassing unexplainable weakness for….’radar love’. So, I suppose I could watch it. 🙂

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Zooey wrote:

And Putin… wants to continue to disrupt American civilization, and weaken our world standing, and he’s going to keep doing that. A big shitstorm, constitutional crisis works just fine for him. He’s a winner either way. Trump keeps fucking shit up as he has been doing, or he cripples the government’s ability to keep their eye on the ball at all because it is undergoing a governmental crisis.”

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Well then Putin and I want prettymuch the same thing 🙂

I mean i like what RT reports on. I dont care what their ‘motives’ are, they tell more truth in 30 minutes than the American-MSM tells in a decade.

At any rate, the nation is so divided now, even if you took ‘russian interference’ or russian media’ out of the mix, there’d still be a growing shitstorm.

I think. I dunno.

As Noam always notes, all the surveys indicate the WORLD considers the USA the biggest threat to peace on the planet. Russia didnt cause that. Putin had nothing to do with that.

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Billy_T wrote:

wv wrote:

PA Ram wrote:

wv wrote:

At any rate, what about the NATO thing. You seem to think russia is an aggressor — what about the NATO thing. Seems to me its the West thats the aggressor.

I remember reading about the missile defense systems awhile ago and I thought the same thing: Is this a good idea? Was it necessary? It does seem to be a poke at them. And it clearly pisses them off. I’m open to questioning that. But even IF that happened, I don’t expect Putin would suddenly shake our hand. Putin’s #1 interest is the same as Trump’s: himself..

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Well, I like the way Paul Jay of real news network put it in a vid. He said American oligarchs are the enemies of Americans. And russian oligarchs are the enemies of Russians. Basically just a simple class argument. Thats how I look at it. I dont think of ‘russia’ as ‘our enemy’.
Putin’s a gangster. Trump/Clinton/Obama/Bush are bigger gangsters.

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If Russian oligarchs run complex operations to disrupt our election system, and pit American against American via social media — which they did — then they’re our “enemies” too.

These things can all be the case at the same time:

1. American oligarchs are our enemies
2. Russian oligarchs are the enemies of the Russian people
3. American oligarchs can be the enemies of people all over the world
4. Russian oligarchs can be the enemies of people all over the world.

IMO, there is no reason to limit it to an impact on just their own countries, and I have a feeling that Paul Jay doesn’t do that for American power. Nor should he. So why the limit for Russia power?

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Well, sure, Oligarchs are the enemy. I think Paul Jay was just reacting to the way the american MSM suppresses the ‘context’. The MSM just goes on and on about the russians and buries the…..well, youve heard all this from me a million times now. I dont wanna keep repeating the same mantra.

We just summarize each OTHER’s views — see if we have it right — and then um…i dunno….agree to shoot zn, er somethin.

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zn wrote:

I just think that misunderstandings of entropy increase across time. Eventually, it will be completely misunderstood.

…

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I’m not sure i understand the misunderstanding in question.

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Billy_T wrote:

But Noam’s interview was prior to the latest indictments from Mueller. There’s more information now to deal with. I don’t think he would be as dismissive of Russian interference after reading them.

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Well the vid says it was published on July 4. When were the indictments? (the vid is in the other thread i started — did you watch it?)

And in the vid he doesnt dismiss the russia story. He says it probably happened — he just doesnt think its a major story. He does the ‘context’ thing. In the context of what the US does regularly, the russia thing is just not a major story.

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PS….on that real news vid above, at about the eleven minute mark, Paul Jay alludes to the US interference in the CANADIAN elections in the sixties. JFK did it. I was not aware of that one. ….its hard to keep track of all of them 🙂

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Them superbowl teams had some purty good OLines, I’m guessing.

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nittany ram wrote:

I think the FBI has changed since Hoover.

One example…the FBI no longer thinks left wing radicals are the biggest threat to the country. They now believe homegrown white wing extremist groups are the biggest threat (ie Michigan Militia, 3 Percenters, the various neo Nazi and Klan groups, etc.).

Which is in direct opposition to the rightwing narrative that the biggest threats are illegal immigrants and Muslim extremists.

Now, I’m not saying the FBI is completely trustworthy because I don’t think they are, but it is telling that they are no longer marching in lockstep with the rightwing.

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Ok cool. We disagree on the FBI. I think they are as bad as ever, maybe worse.
I think they are the System-Police. They protect the system. So they will attack ‘radicals’. On the left or on the right doesnt matter. They are political police.

If they just stuck to chasing down serial killers I’d have no problem with them. But thats just what they do part-time.

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A Spirited, Substantive Debate on the Trump-Putin Summit, Russia, and U.S. Politics
Trump n Putin:https://theintercept.com/2018/07/16/a-spirited-substantive-debate-on-the-trumpputin-summit-russia-and-us-politics/

I’ve been reading a lot about the american FBI in my book on the Black Panthers. The FBI basically were murderers. Just flat out, murder. Hoover felt he was at war with radicals. He called them the biggest internal threat to the US in existence.

I dont see any reason to think they are better now, than they used to be. I mean why would they be?

I am at the point where i wouldnt trust a single solitary thing that comes from the F.B.I. I mean, I’m sure they tell the truth sometimes, but how would i know when?

Thats just me, of course. I know that view is not shared around here, and thats totally cool. Just sharing my own disgust with that subpart-of-the-System.

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