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znModeratorBlaine Grisak@bgrisakTSTOver the past two games, Rams iOL Kevin Dotson is the fourth-highest rated guard via PFF. This season, Noteboom is the fourth-lowest graded guard in the NFL via PFF.znModeratorRams Brothers@RamsBrothersIf you’re not going to get a comp pick and there’s 100% chance of a player not being re-signed, why would it hurt to swap picks in your favor? Kyren Williams (2nd year), Puka Nacua (rookie) and Tutu Atwell (3rd year) are all playing better than Cam Akers and Van Jefferson did.znModeratorCharles (Super CHAMP Chuck)@cpenn4thewin
Looks like AD needs another All-Pro on the defensive line again… I keep saying it but y’all think I’m crazy… Stop putting that man in All-Time categories he don’t belong inRams24/7@Rams24_7
AD has 105 career games. 0 fellow DL have received an All Pro during that time.His 3 DPOY years he played next to:
2017: Quinn, Barwin, Brockers, Westbrooks
2018: Fowler, Ebukam, Brockers, Suh
2020: Floyd, Joseph-Day, Brockers, Eubukam
No room for false narratives here
znModeratorZN, Good point about ends or edges not generally lighting it up with sacks as rookies. I haven’t looked at other players, but had to check on Deacon. In just 14 games, 6 starts, he had 9.5 his first year (or more). They weren’t doing “official” tallies at the time, so they may have missed some. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneDe00.htm
On Jones, that’s one of the rare great starts. As you would expect. (BTW the “unofficial sack list” you refer to is universally taken as valid. It came from watching film. It will never end up as official stats but is taken as a strong and solid indicator.)
But then look at other 1st years by other Rams edge rushers:
Jack Youngblood, in his 2nd year, had 6 sacks.
Kevin Greene, in his 2nd year, had 7 sacks.
Kevin Carter, in his 1st year, 6 sacks.
Grant Wistrom, in his first year, 2 sacks.
Chris Long, in his 1st year, had 4 sacks.
James Hall, in his 1st year, had 1 sack.
Robert Quinn, in his 1st year, had 5 sacks.
Dante Fowler, in his 1st year, had 4 sacks.
I didn’t count Leonard Little because it was off the field stuff that kept him from starting his first couple of years.
Then there are the great exceptions, usually high draft picks, who start fast. In his 1st year, Lawrence Taylor had 9.5 sacks. In his 1st year, Von Miller had 11.5.
znModeratorNot an easy window to hit but Stafford has to hit this one and has made these types of throws this season. This is a walk-in TD.
The Rams are *good* offensively and are still not playing clean football. The arrow is pointing up. https://t.co/ZE3UqOfLpS
— Sosa Kremenjas (@QBsMVP) October 10, 2023
znModeratorJourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigueBald numbers per TruMedia, when Rams are up at least 7 they run on 58% of snaps, T-6th with 49ers. When Rams are down at least 7 they run on 16.3% of snaps, third-lowest..JAKE ELLENBOGEN@JKBOGEN.1st in Reception % Allowed (40.9)
1st in Coverage snaps per Reception (19.2)
2nd in Opp. QB Passer Rating (36.7)
T-2nd in INTs (2)
5th in YAC allowed (28).Jay@jballerr2gsWe were basically a couple bad passes or on the wrong page deep throws to Kupp from winning that game. So many points we left out there. They could not cover kupp.Jourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigueThey run on 23.6% of plays when down three points, fourth-lowest.znModeratorI just wanna know why Young didn’t wrap up… https://t.co/vq11vqWh29
— Rams Fans United (@RamsFansUnited) October 9, 2023
znModeratorJ.B. Long@JB_Long
Notable PFF grades from Rams loss vs PHI…Kupp 82.3
VanValkenburg 79.1
Witherspoon 77.8
Bobby Brown 76.5 (injured late)
Kyren 70.9
Stafford 69.5
Havenstein 69.1—
Limited snap counts, but very good outcomes:
Duke Shelley 84.9
Earnest Brown 81.3znModeratorThe middle or inside receiver fade is hard to stop. Not taking anything away from the throw and difficulty of the scenario. You just probably notice that a lot of these routes are getting targeted around the NFL and with success. https://t.co/Rak22r7Ct0
— Matt Waldman (@MattWaldman) October 9, 2023
znModeratorJAKE ELLENBOGEN@JKBOGENKyren Williams in his first year as a starter has been everything the #Rams could have asked for in their 5th round pick 2nd-year guy:3rd in DVOA
5th in VOA
3rd in Success Rate
4th in DYAR
6th in YAR
4th in Pass Pro Efficiency
15th in Rush YDs
T-4th in Rush TDs
12th in First Downs
T-16th in Missed Tackles Forced
16th in Yards after contact
7th in RB REC YDsznModeratorMichael Hoecht started his career a defensive tackle and is listed at 311lbs.
Even if he's slimmed down to play on the edge, please take the play that had him covering Dallas Goedert vertically from the slot and BURN IT WITH FIRE.pic.twitter.com/QczcFwQMKW
— Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) October 9, 2023
znModeratorELITE route running.
📺 @NFLonFOX | 🔟 @CooperKupp pic.twitter.com/iKyDqUpK5Y
— Los Angeles Rams (@RamsNFL) October 8, 2023
October 9, 2023 at 3:50 pm in reply to: reporters, twitter, etc. on Eagles game. + the “big articles” #146014znModeratorRodrigue: These L.A. Rams are still waiting to meet their own potential
Jourdan Rodrigue
INGLEWOOD, Calif. — It would be fair, I think, to look at these Los Angeles Rams from a couple of perspectives at the same time: that of the optimist, and that of the pessimist.
After a 23-14 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles on Sunday, just a week after the exhilaration of an overtime win in Indianapolis, I want to create space for both because I think both are true.
The optimist: This team is better than expected. Remember those expectations throughout the spring and summer, or lack thereof? The old, injury-riddled quarterback Matthew Stafford, the aging (and also injury-riddled) receiver Cooper Kupp, the “no-name” defense with a bunch of young dudes and star Aaron Donald as their chaperone? Fourteen rookies on the 53-man roster? Tanking? Projections of flat-out a– kicking by teams far worse than the Super Bowl-contending Eagles? Remember?
It’s not the conversation around this group now, but now there are also expectations.
The pessimist: The Rams’ issues seem largely self-inflicted, they certainly were Sunday against a physical, multiple and well-built Philadelphia team that doesn’t often allow much margin for error. Head coach Sean McVay said as much when literally pounding the lectern in his post-game news conference.
“There (are) opportunities that I know we’re capable of making, and then we’ve just gotta be able to string it together,” he said. “I believe that this team is capable of making those plays. I know they are capable of making those plays. … I’m not making excuses at all, because we expect to accelerate our progression, and I believe in this group. (But I) am disappointed with the inability to play off of one another. …
The pessimist (and the realist): There was little support from the offense, and 23 points allowed should have been enough to win. Still, the Rams’ defense also allowed too many explosive plays (seven plays over 15 yards, including five pass plays and a Jalen Hurts scramble) and was a disaster on third down, especially third-and-long. The Eagles were 13 of 18 on third down, but of the 10 plays that were third-and-5 or longer, the Rams gave up seven conversions including a touchdown.
Some of the more glaring breakdowns keep happening. In losses to the Eagles and in Week 2 against the rival 49ers, defensive gaffes in late-clock situations especially right before halftime have dramatically impacted the game. Sunday, with about 30 seconds left in the second quarter, starting cornerback Derion Kendrick gave up a one-handed outstretched catch to receiver A.J. Brown on third-and-1 and Brown raced down the field toward the end zone. Kendrick, who did know he had to try to bring Brown down in-bounds, was flagged for a costly horse-collar penalty on the play while attempting to do so.
“That was tough,” McVay said, “It was almost identical to the way that things played out against the 49ers. It was, in some instances, deja vu. We gotta figure out how (we can) be better in some of those situations.”
The sequence got the Eagles to the Rams’ 14-yard line, and Kendrick was flagged for pass interference on the next play. That got the Eagles to the 1-yard line, where they were gifted the opportunity to run their highly effective “tush push” play, and took a 17-14 lead into halftime.
“S—, third-and-1, I should have played off (coverage) instead of pressing,” Kendrick said, “(he) just made a good catch, for real. And then on the P-I … I was on top, digging back for the ball (and) trying to play through him. They said I pulled him. I just keep playing the way I’m playing, some refs are going to call it and some ain’t. And I’d say on two plays, I just (have to) stay stickier to the receiver. On the play where I got the horse collar, I’d say I’d probably (next time) play his top shoulder more instead of trying to undercut it. I probably had someone (a help player) flashing back in my window to knock his head off.”
McVay said he likes the way Kendrick competes and reiterated the need for the entire team to play “all four quarters.” He cited their failed drive coming out of the half, including their inability to turn an interception by cornerback Ahkello Witherspoon into points. Stafford agreed.
“In the same respect,” Stafford said, “our defense goes out and gets a turnover, you know Ahkello (Witherspoon) makes a great pick on a tough drive, a long drive, and shoot, gives us life. And we don’t go score. I mean, there are just opportunities for both sides of the ball to just grab the momentum and kind of run with it. We weren’t able to do it.”
The optimist: Many of the Rams’ issues are self-inflicted, and can be corrected. While Stafford and Kupp were automatic in a target-heavy first half of Kupp’s return from a hamstring injury, connecting for six catches for 95 yards (including crucial third- and even fourth-down conversions), the two missed each other on a couple of throws in the second half and Kupp was limited to 23 yards during that time. On two deep balls against what Stafford would normally consider favorable man-coverage, they had timing issues (those specifically are timing throws, Stafford reiterated) in part because of how the Eagles were playing Kupp off the line of scrimmage, including trying to make contact through the motion concepts that usually get the receivers clean releases.
“Those are plays that I believe that we’ll hit, those are looks that we’re looking for,” McVay added.
A play in the fourth quarter called for running back Kyren Williams as chipping help for rookie tackle Warren McClendon, suddenly in the game in place of veteran right tackle Rob Havenstein as the Rams went for it on fourth-and-12 from their own 41-yard line with 2:50 left to play (that was when they went for it, by the way, not on fourth-and-5 from their 42-yard line with 10:05 left to play, sigh). Stafford was sacked for a loss around that right side.
While it is a fixable moment (optimism!), McVay uncharacteristically voiced pointed frustration about the failure there.
“I saw us not do a good job of chipping. We had a chip on that right there, (but) we accelerated (Haason) Reddick into a rush,” McVay said, “that was really poor execution on our part. Those are the things that make me very upset.”
The pessimist: Some self-inflicted problems are becoming patterns, or are shadows of long-established problems. Down just three points at the start of the third quarter, the Rams, who started the second half on offense, ran three consecutive pass plays (one a penalty) and only converted a very long third-and-26 run because of a flag for a facemask against Williams. Through the entire third quarter, McVay called a 10-to-3 pass/run ratio, even though the Eagles didn’t score.
“I thought we were getting off looks that we wanted,” he said, “I just think the margin for error was really small.”
When the passes stalled, the Rams’ offense was sent off the field too quickly (giving a possession team like the Eagles plenty of time to run their top-of-sheet game plan). The Rams couldn’t sustain their second-half drives on the other side of a six-point effort by their defense.
Witherspoon intercepted Hurts in the end zone midway through the third quarter, and the Rams’ offense couldn’t score on the gifted possession.
“Huge turnover, Ahkello gets that pick in the end zone,” Kupp said, “that is something that you want to turn into points offensively. We just kind of stalled out there, we didn’t execute as well as we should against a good Eagles team that possesses the ball like they do. They really make you play a really good game offensively, and we had too many mistakes. Felt like it was right there, right there for us.”
After a 168-yard, two-touchdown first half, the Rams managed just 81 net yards in the third and fourth quarters.
The Rams have struggled in the second half of four of their five games this season, and are averaging only 6.3 second-half points per game in their last three, the fourth-worst in the NFL.
“We gotta go back and watch the film, really watch the film and see what that is,” Kupp said. “At the end of the day, it comes down to us executing. You see a lot of stuff in the first half, and you kind of see the patterns, see what you’re getting. They make some adjustments, we gotta come out and we gotta be able to adapt and respond to that. I’m not saying coaches, I’m saying as players. You gotta run your routes and understand that things are gonna be different. You might be running the same route, but they’re playing it differently. Second half, they made some adjustments. (We need to) try to give Sean, give Matthew the widest range of successful outcomes no matter what look you’re getting and I think we gotta do a better job of that. We’ll be critical of ourselves watching this film tomorrow.”
So, it’s a little of both ends of the emotional spectrum. After a game like this, it’s OK to be an optimist, a pessimist, or both at the same time. It’s all true, if you think about it.
And whichever way you lean about these Rams, the singular, bald truth is this: The fans of this team, and the players on it, and the coaches and the front office are all waiting to meet their own potential.
We’ve seen their potential, much like we’ve seen their ability to legitimately play complementary football. We’ve all seen the proof, if they can just get out of their own way and keep growing in the process.
“I think you see it in spurts,” Stafford said. “It’s just, can you go out there and do it for the full game? And I don’t know if you’re going to do it on every single drive, but can the standard be a little bit better, to just go out and execute at a higher level?
“I know we are doing everything we can, putting in the work. Continue to work, trust that work that we do put into it on a weekly basis, (and) go out there and trust yourself on game day. It’s never going to be perfect. Football is played in the gray. … But just go out there and do everything you can to be fundamentally sound, go out there and execute. Let the chips fall where they may, at that point.”
znModeratorsounds like it was eagles defense making second half adjustments and the rams offense failing to counter that but also having to weather injuries. and then of course the rams defense made some critical errors. especially before the first half ended – kendrick. also i think the rams defense could have tackled better. too many broken tackles for extra yardage.
I tend to agree with those points.
Along with Stafford being off in the 2nd half.
Here’s the thing. They’re starting a bunch of 2nd and 3rd year guys all at once, along with a few rookies. That’s the disadvantage of re-tooling the way they decided to. But they have a top-notch qb. When Stafford can play at his best, they can compete. When he’s less than that by any degree, they struggle. But then how well Stafford plays depends on the things around him–protection, WR performance, run game performance. That’s of course true of every team except it’s all dramatically starker in the case of the Rams.
The defense is disadvantaged by being inexperienced too. Like their pass rush. Three guys have considerable promise–Young, Turner, and Mathis. Cool. Except. As a rule, if you look back at all the great pass rushers in NFL history, they seldom if ever get multiple sacks as rookies. It’s rare if a rookie pass rusher beats those odds. So how will the pass rush look next year? Maybe one or more of those three guys will definitively break through. But till then–they stay where they are, which is 25th in the league in pressure percentage and 27th in the league in sacks.
znModeratorTurfShowTimes@TurfShowTimesIt’s really remarkable that in 2 of Rams 3 losses, Derion Kendrick had 2 penalties each time that led to the other team scoring a touchdown on the final play of the first half. It’s not all on Kendrick of course, just interesting that he’s been involved that way both times..JAKE ELLENBOGEN@JKBOGENDerion Kendrick has definitely improved for the #Rams. However, while he is 2nd in reception % allowed and 12th in opposing passer rating allowed…The fact is his misses are massive. The 5 penalties have been game-shattering. So much so you could argue for Duke Shelley starting in his place.,znModeratorRams Tapes@RamsTapesShould we see more of Duke Shelley in the starting rotation? In his limited snap counts he had a@PFF grade of 84.9.JAKE ELLENBOGEN@JKBOGENin 7 pass rush snaps and first action of his young NFL career, Ochaun Mathis had two pressures (was held on a would be sack)znModeratorBlaine Grisak @bgrisakTSTByron Young led the Rams with four pressures against the Eagles. Ochaun Mathis also had two in his first game action. Played just 10 snaps.znModeratorBlaine Grisak@bgrisakTSTWeek 5 Rams OL PFF grades:Alaric Jackson: 31.4 RBLK | 66.5 PBLK
Steve Avila: 83.9| 45.0
Coleman Shelton: 41.5 | 2.3
Kevin Dotson: 48.1 | 80.0
Rob Havenstein: 60.0 | 75.317 pressures allowed.
znModeratorSosa Kremenjas@QBsMVPPuka Nacua is a fucking awesome player but still isn’t perfect. He leads the league in drops (5) and has double-clutched at least a few. Now, you could say a higher rate of targets = a higher rate of potential drops, but he still *can* get better.znModeratorBlaine Grisak@bgrisakTST
Not including the final two drives for the Rams…In the second-half yesterday, McVay called 4 runs to 14 passes.Taking away garbage time (win% > 10%), Rams averaged 0.903 rushing EPA/play.
They averaged -0.720/play in drop back EPA.
Rams were never going to beat the Eagles running the ball, but a 0.903 to -0.720 difference is wild.
Shows importance of remaining balanced on offense.
znModeratorTHE PASS. THE CATCH. GOOD LAWD.
📺 @NFLonFOX | 1⃣7⃣ @ASAPpuka pic.twitter.com/skb4vkNNDD
— Los Angeles Rams (@RamsNFL) October 8, 2023
znModeratorPhysical work during the release and good technique at and after the catch by Puka Nacua vs Darius Slay, Jr. #RamsHouse pic.twitter.com/j9dq5HwQva
— Matt Waldman (@MattWaldman) October 9, 2023
znModeratorMake it a toe-tap interception in the endzone for Ahkello Witherspoon. Impressive control and balance to make the play. pic.twitter.com/pGE5ChxSd1
— Stu Jackson (@StuJRams) October 8, 2023
znModeratorCooper Kupp looked just as elite as we remember! Here with his patented move beating an elite CB in Slay
I suspect he and Stafford will need to work on timing after a year of not working together in live action.
Tough loss but look at our upcoming schedule . We’ll fight! pic.twitter.com/gvDL7SL8Wz
— RAMS ON FILM (@RamsOnFilm) October 9, 2023
znModeratorWith Tutu Atwell’s speed and Puka Nacua’s physicality, the Rams can create a lot of two-way-go scenarios for Cooper Kupp, who might be the best in the league in this situation.
Think of it as giving your best shootout kicker one-on-ones with a goalie every touch #RamsHouse pic.twitter.com/dmjtLU64o3
— Matt Waldman (@MattWaldman) October 9, 2023
October 8, 2023 at 10:43 pm in reply to: reporters, twitter, etc. on Eagles game. + the “big articles” #145990znModeratorRich@rcoop21It was a Taylor Rapp tackling clinic by the Rams today.znModeratorthey’re closer than i thought they were before the season began.
Yeah it was a loss but still, I agree with that comment.
October 8, 2023 at 7:50 pm in reply to: reporters, twitter, etc. on Eagles game. + the “big articles” #145984znModeratorLos Angeles Rams UK@LARams_UKEnd of game Rams move to 2-3 in a frustrating loss to the Eagles. A loss to a good team & once again our young guns hung in as long as they could before it fell apart. Potential is there BUT there are missing pieces we need to fill to realise it. Onto the Cardinals next week..Jourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigueRob Havenstein off the field with training staff, Warren McClendon in at RT. Rams on the field on fourth and 12 with a brand new RT..Fishkiller@FV_Mylia_LynnRams lost. I’m not surprised. Expected them to lose to the Eagles today. Eagles have best OL in NFL & a top-5 DL. 1st half got my hopes up but the offense continued its 2nd half ineptitude & the Eagles OL began to impose their will as the game wore on..Blaine Grisak @bgrisakTST…and that’s the ball game. Rob Havenstein is forced to leave the game. Warren McClendon ends up giving up a sack. Not a situation you wanted to be in as an offense, allowing Eagles pass rushers to pin their ears back and rush..Jourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigueEagles had 23 first downs and were 10-of-12 on third down in initial three quarters. On those third downs, seven were third-and-5 or more. Eagles converted six of those seven.October 8, 2023 at 7:42 pm in reply to: reporters, twitter, etc. on Eagles game. + the “big articles” #145981znModeratorJourdan Rodrigue@JourdanRodrigueI don’t know that I’ve seen Sean McVay as frustrated in a post-game presser. Pounded lectern in speaking about fixing repeated issues in team w/potential (including himself) and commented on being upset about chip execution on play McClendon was in (thinks Havenstein is ok). -
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