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  • June 9, 2016 at 2:18 pm in reply to: King Arthur #45767
    Avatar photozn
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    Billy_T wrote:

    You don’t like The White Album, Abbey Road and their last album, The Beatles?

    You are one twisted spinal cracker, without his mojo filter.

    ;>)

    Then there’s this:

    So I get that. I just don’t get change for change’s sake, especially when the original is much better and more powerful (Homer, Aeschylus, Virgil, etc.)

    Well, we are talking about cinema. Cinema is not written literature. They are different animals. Their historical contexts are different. Re-imagining from one medium and era to another is fine with me. I actually didn’t mind Troy at all and personally didn’t get the complaining about it. (Well except for Brad Pitt. But then he’s good in other things and he handled their version of Achilles’s death very nicely.)

    Cinema can’t be lit and vice versa.

    But who are we to tell directors they can’t be interested in trying?

    Here’s a good example. The film version of the Wizard of OZ completely changes the story, to its core (including subtracting the fact that in the books, Oz is real, while in the movie, they made it a dream). In many ways they are nothing like one another. But then that also means they are just different things.

    I don’t compare them. To me, the movie stands on the fact that for reasons no one could ever possibly explain, Margaret Hamilton’s hammy over-drawn hag portrayal of the Wicked Witch is just one of the great iconic character creations in all of movies.

    And then there’s the musical Wicked.

    I say, let art throw as much mud at the walls as it can. We know from history that a lot of it sticks.

    As for the Beatles? Whenever someone speaks of the Beatles I go into a dream.

    ,

    June 9, 2016 at 2:05 pm in reply to: King Arthur #45764
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    We don’t disagree about what artists have done through the years, centuries, millennia. Yes, there is endless recreation, recombining, alteration to go with the creation. That is a part of the deal, the process, the making of art. I think where things went off-track is that I did take your comments as totalizing. They did strike me as “you’re wrong. I’m right. That’s a fact, Jack, and there is no other way to look at this.”

    Where we agree: yes artists have always done that. The empirical part.

    Where we disagree: The opinion part. I openly said I don’t mind that fact (and also said I don’t personally like the other view). That was not a right/wrong thing…it can’t be. I was expressing an attitude toward a controversy. That could not possibly be an “I am right/you are wrong” thing–it was openly stated as an opinion: I don’t mind that kind of thing, even when it comes to movies re-doing old written literature. I did say I thought the other view was stuffy, but that too was openly expressed as an opinion. Just my own feelings about it.

    I am not leading a crusade, I am just drinking in my rocking chair and going “enh I never did like them long-haired beatles songs.” If you go “I do!” it’s fine. But I don’t.

    June 9, 2016 at 1:48 pm in reply to: leave Hillary out of it in THIS thread…in his own terms, what is Trump #45763
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    wv wrote:
    zn wrote:
    wv wrote:

    I probly dont worry ‘quite’ as much about him as most leftist
    cause i know the system wont let him do a lot of what he wants to do.

    That’s what they used to say at first in Maine about LePage.

    People don’t say that anymore.

    You would be amazed at how much someone can do. And get away with.

    ==============
    I know that is your thing, but Trump is not Lepage,
    and the Nation is not Maine. So, while i see the analogy,
    i also dont quite see the ‘sameness’ to it.

    I mean why do you think Trump is Lepage and Lepage is Trump? Why?

    w
    v

    The idea I am responding to is, there is only so much damage one of those can do. They would get limited. What I am saying is….that’s just not my experience. They can do and DO do all sorts of things without being checked. I don’t just assume that could happen at the national level, I know that can happen at the national level. So I don’t need the LePage example (other than what it feels like to live under the government of a right-wing demagogue.) I can point to Reagan and talk about things like Iran-contra. They did what they wanted and even when called on it, the public censure accomplished nothing and did not un-do the damage they had done.

    It all amounts to this—and it’s opinion so take it or leave it, but–I think it;s wishful thinking to say that there’s only so much Trump could actually do as a president. Pointing to our experience here with LePage is just one among many ways of saying that; and pointing to that also underscores the depth of my emotional response to all this. I have seen harm that people once told me would not come about. It did. My own experience, even knowing better beforehand so I SHOULDN’T have been surprised, was that I was regularly amazed at what these guys can do and get away with. That is very vivid to me. It has real direct influence over my take on the presidential election.

    I also keep saying I can’t make that a platform for others. It has always been offered as describing why I personally see things the way I do. Or at least that’s the intent. I don’t know if I stuck to it well enough but that’s the intent.

    June 9, 2016 at 1:15 pm in reply to: King Arthur #45756
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    Not going by “argument from authority.” Was responding to your insistence that you know what art is,

    That particular way of putting it is all in your head BT. There was no “insistence” of any kind. And no one said they “know what X is” in a general unqualified way. What I actually said is that art (in general, not in every instance) has always picked up on, altered, reconfigured, re-imagined, re-cast, and so on, prior art…and that’s an empirical claim that is just accurate. You took that to mean individual x claims to know “what art is,” as opposed to just an ordinary empirical/historical statement about one thing that has always happened.

    I described something that has always happened, and gave my attitude toward that. What I said at the empirical level is just true (though it’s not, as you apparently took it, a philosophical claim about what the whole of art IS. That particular historical statement is not totalizing.) As for the personal attitude toward that fact—I said I don’t mind that, regardless of the form it takes. Just a strong opinion and openly marked as such. So in terms of my expressing my opinion and attitude, it was all marked by opinion qualifiers.

    What I don’t like is the “reverence for originals” approach. To me it’s stuffy.

    I have no problem whatsoever with a cinematic version of xyz because a cinematic version of xyz does not subtract from, deny access to, or supplant the original.

    They’re just different things. Which is absolutely fine with me.

    Where I disagree is that I don’t think the fact that that is always happening means the later guys have to stay clear of what the earlier guys did

    In terms of the opinion part, yes we see it differently but I never really said it was more than that.

    In terms of the empirical part…yes things get re-written and re-imagined all the time. That is just something that has always happened. That’s just true. (Which again is not a totalizing claim about what art IS. I made no such claim.)

    Are we more in line now? We have different views on this and that’s all I ever really said.

    June 9, 2016 at 12:38 pm in reply to: King Arthur #45748
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    ZN, again, I’m an artist, from a family of artists. I know what art is, what it does, where it comes from

    And I am an historian of art and so I speak to what it has always done.

    As long as we’re going to revert to the “argument from personal authority” move.

    Art has always, among other things, picked up and re-done prior art. It just has. You personally may not like that, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, because it always has. Heck for that matter homer is not the “original author” of the troy stories, and many shakespeare plays are re-written versions of other plays, when they aren’t re-written versions of other plays (and tales) that were themselves taken from ovid. Who himself (ovid) was not the originator of most of HIS stuff.

    It is just a thing that happens.

    And we can do 2 things about it.

    One is declare a canon of taste about how we’re “supposed” to feel about that.

    And another is my way. See what actually has happened in all its diversity, and just embrace the whole thing for what it is.

    You will never approach it my way, probably, but then what I see in your way is A way…not THE way.

    There have always been competing doctrines, canons, ideas of art. That’s part of art. Always has been and always will be. In the middle of all that some take sides. Some don’t.

    …

    June 9, 2016 at 12:31 pm in reply to: time to take the political compass poll again #45746
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    bnw wrote:

    You really take the cake. Your lack of sincerity and my wasting my time addressing it sure makes me the fool. Have you been living under a rock since Obama was elected?

    You’re making it personal, bnw. I’m absolutely sincere in what I’ve written.

    No you’re not. You’re playing rope the dope and I’m the dope.

    Rules say, posters do not make conflicts over issues personal.

    Address arguments, don’t personalize differences.

    June 9, 2016 at 12:19 pm in reply to: King Arthur #45743
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    wv wrote:
    zn wrote:

    You might go with that but art doesn’t. Art picks things up from the past and alters and recombines them. It just does..

    —————-

    I dont think Art does. Or doesn’t. I dont think anyone can say what art “just does”.

    Some does, some doesnt. Just depends on who is talking about it.

    BT likes his myth-movies one narrow way. You like a broader spectrum of myth-movies.

    w
    v

    Remember most of my declarations are based on history, not philosophy. I look at what happened and happens, and don’t compare it to some reasoned-to ideal.

    And yeah art has always done that.

    In fact Homer didn’t originate the epic of troy. He was one of the many who re-worked that story through the ages.

    Maybe I could have put it this way—among the many things art has always done and still does, is (etc.)

    And that’s just true.

    So I embrace the history, and don’t care about the philosophical declarations about oughts and shoulds. I make history-based declarations about been theres and done thats.

    What I say has absolutely nothing to do with what I like or don’t like. It is just true. Taken as a whole art is always re-doing things (among the other things it does.) That wasn’t supposed to mean every single individual artist in every single art does that. BUT taken as a whole yes that always happens and always will happen.

    Where I disagree is that I don’t think the fact that that is always happening means the later guys have to stay clear of what the earlier guys did or they will be reprimanded. I always just look around and say, yeah well different people are always doing that, so what.

    …

    …

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Avatar photozn.
    June 9, 2016 at 11:58 am in reply to: King Arthur #45740
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    Billy_T wrote:

    Oh, and speaking of Game of Thrones, a series I like . . . . just found out via Wiki that one of its Show Runners, David Benioff, worked on “Troy.”

    He seems to have shifted on the topic of keeping close to the source material since then. While there are differences between the HBO show and the Martin originals, and it’s now gone beyond them in time, they did try to keep it close. Martin has so many different characters, and so many different plates in the air at the same time, TV producers, even those who have the luxury of a series, have to consolidate here and there. So I get that. I just don’t get change for change’s sake, especially when the original is much better and more powerful (Homer, Aeschylus, Virgil, etc.)

    You might go with that but art doesn’t. Art picks things up from the past and alters and recombines them. It just does.

    I have no problem whatsoever with a cinematic version of xyz because a cinematic version of xyz does not subtract from, deny access to, or supplant the original.

    They’re just different things. Which is absolutely fine with me.

    My perennial garden has types of plants in them that have been revered for centuries. It also has types of plants in them that did not exist a decade ago. So as always let 10,000 flowers bloom.

    June 9, 2016 at 11:45 am in reply to: leave Hillary out of it in THIS thread…in his own terms, what is Trump #45737
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    wv wrote:

    I probly dont worry ‘quite’ as much about him as most leftist
    cause i know the system wont let him do a lot of what he wants to do.

    That’s what they used to say at first in Maine about LePage.

    People don’t say that anymore.

    You would be amazed at how much someone can do. And get away with.

    June 9, 2016 at 9:46 am in reply to: Keenum will be the starter to open camp…how close or far is Goff? #45715
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    Best-, worst-case rookie projections for Rams’ Jared Goff

    Nick Wagoner

    http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/29754/best-and-worst-case-rookie-projections-for-jared-goff

    OXNARD, Calif. — Last month, we used our corner of cyberspace to offer up some realistic best-case projections for what the Los Angeles Rams can reasonably expect to get from quarterback Jared Goff in his rookie season.

    If things go well and the Rams protect Goff, statistics in line with what Pittsburgh quarterback Ben Roethlisberger did his rookie season (2,621 yards, 17 touchdowns and 11 interceptions in 13 regular-season starts) would go a long way toward helping the Rams get over the hump to a winning record for the first time since 2003.

    Over at NFL.com, Bucky Brooks recently provided his list of the best- and worst-case scenarios for some top rookies, including Goff.

    Brooks wrote that in Goff’s best-case scenario, the Rams can lean on running back Todd Gurley to take the pressure off, and when teams load up to stop Gurley, the Rams can allow Goff to use passing concepts that require him to get the ball out quickly and stay upright. The worst case, according to Brooks, would be teams stopping Gurley consistently and forcing Goff to try to carry the offensive load against the stout defenses of the NFC West.

    All told, Brooks predicted a season with 3,300 passing yards, 19 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. Those numbers would be comparable to Roethlisberger’s rookie season and more than acceptable for a rookie making the transition to the NFL.

    June 9, 2016 at 9:42 am in reply to: King Arthur #45714
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    Billy_T wrote:

    The recent attempt at Homer’s Iliad, “Troy,” just killed me. I will never understand why Hollywood directors feel they need to mess with (and rewrite) Greek myths — or any other kind of ancient story — which have stood the “test of time” for well over two millennia. They are loaded with more than enough drama, suspense, action, excitement, psychological insight, etc. etc. . . . to be left as is. Not one change is necessary. Yet they inevitably feel they can’t leave them alone.

    Because they are in the business of making movies, so they are attracted to what they think can be cinematic. And, turns out, added versions of something aren’t competing with the original and its derivatives. You can see different things in each. What I don’t like is the “reverence for originals” approach. To me it’s stuffy. To one extent or another, all art picks up on and re-does earlier art. That’s because all artists are fascinated with art.

    I can think of a couple of movies with swords btw that worked well. But they aren’t “retelling the old classics.” They’re just movies with swords.

    The extended version of Kingdom of Heaven. (The non-extended version is useless IMO.)

    On another level entirely, Kurasawa’s The 7 Samurai.

    In a different context, leaving the books out of it, HBO’s Game of Thrones (not really a movie).

    June 9, 2016 at 8:42 am in reply to: Contract talks relevant to the futures of Donald & Goff #45706
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    zn wrote:

    IMO we have to get used to seeing a guy or 2 walk every year.

    Agamemnon wrote:

    The Rams hit that point this year. They had to let a couple guys go that they wanted to keep, Jenkins and McCleod

    Yeah see I was thinking that. Every signing now means more money against the 2019 cap.

    Though, in other discussons of this, while I stressed 2019 here, IMO 2018 is critical too, because they ought to have signed Donald by then. 2018 is his 5th option year, and they either extend him then or before then, or he becomes a market FA. If he becomes a unrestricted FA, it is entirely possible the price of the deal goes way up as teams compete for him.

    Another way to look at it is who do you want in your “top 8-9” in 2019, which is what I did here. So far it’s 4 … Quinn, Barron, Goff, Donald. That’s 19 M (Barron/Quinn), 22 M? Goff, 21 M? Donald, which is 62 M (I know my numbers are slightly different in the post above, I am just guesstimating it slightly differently this time). But they have to sign guys by then and will have to choose a top 8 or 9. Meaning, every guy who comes up (Tree? Tavon? GR?) you have to ask, is he one of the 2019 8-9 players in our 50% club?

    I don’t count Hekker as a 8-9 club guy…his deal is not big enough to count toward that. When I look at what teams do, I have putting the 8-9 limit at 6+M so far.

    Here’s Seattle;s way of handling that, this year:


    This year, that’s about 90.4 in 10 guys, which is about 58.7% of this year’s 153.9 M cap.

    That’s why they had to let Okung walk and traded Unger. They needed a priority list and those 2 didn’t make it, according to how they want to do things.

    When you get past the 2 big contracts (Wilson, Sherman) with the remaining 8 guys, it goes from 9.9 M to 6+ M, averaging around 7.1 M per.

    Donald + Goff in 2019 ought to cost more by a few million than Wilson + Sherman (33.3 M) do now for Seattle.

    June 9, 2016 at 2:29 am in reply to: Rams new UDFA receivers #45684
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    Vincent Bonsignore@DailyNewsVinny

    Spruce catching everything thrown his way. Not surprising from the all time leading PAC-12 reception leader. Runs sharp routes, gets open, catches everything. I knew there was a reason rams gave him largest signing bonus of all the UDFA’s.

    June 9, 2016 at 2:05 am in reply to: Contract talks relevant to the futures of Donald & Goff #45681
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    Why this matters.

    Some day, both Donald and Goff will have new contracts.

    Usually teams have around 8-9, sometimes 10, guys who take up 50% to say 55%, 56% of the cap.

    So let;s use the 2019 cap, and let’s say (with no evidence) that by 2019 the cap is 180 M. 50% of that has to go to that 8-9 guys. That;s 90 M of they hypothetical 180 M.

    Well at that point, the average cap hit for a starting qb in his 2nd year will probably be around 22-25 M. Donald, in turn, is not only going to become one of the highest paid DTs in the league (and right now with Suh that’s 19 M), he will be able to command an offer for one of the highest paid DEFENDERS in the league, regardless of position. In a couple of years that will probably be around 21-22 M.

    So already, you’re talking about 43-47 M a year (leaving structure out of it for now) for just 2 guys.

    Barron already is averaging around 10 M and Quinn is already averaging around 12 M.

    So some day just for those 4, it’s 65-69 M.

    (Assuming they’re all here but this isn’t a prediction it’s a rough look at what would be the case if they ARE all here.)

    Usually other top contracts, the already-mentioned 8-9 guys types, get anywhere from 6-7 M to 10 M.

    And think who has to come up for longterm deals before then. Johnson, Austin, Ogletree, Robinson, McDondold, and possibly Gaines. And Gurley. And who knows yet who else.

    I already named 4 of the 8-9 (Goff, Donald, Barron, Quinn). That’s 7 more. So it won’t be all 7. But let’s say it’s 5. Let;s imagine that averages out to 9 M per player. That means you add 45 M or so to 43-47 M. That’s somewhere around 88-92 M. That’s your “around 50%” of a 180 M cap (if it even is 180 M by then).

    IMO we have to get used to seeing a guy or 2 walk every year.

    …

    June 9, 2016 at 1:45 am in reply to: leave Hillary out of it in THIS thread…in his own terms, what is Trump #45679
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    waterfield wrote:

    But the truly scary thing is what does it say about the level of intelligence of those that put him where he is. Are we really that shallow?

    I look at it differently. I think that in a stagnating economic time, with a lot of economic instability, many americans fall back on their normative racism and anxiety about “other kinds of people.” It has nothing to do with intelligence and it probably can’t be fought with debate, reason, and arguments. It has to do with the ways that ingrained assumptions dominate peoples’s perceptions. So Trump’s racist stuff is nothing new to me. That kind of thing has just been there all along. It’s easy enough to see it if you look. It’s a huge and significant part of what this society is. Doesn’t have to be that way, and it can change, but, it’s there, and all Trump did when it comes to racial stuff is speak for an already existing mindset.

    But this aspect of his candidacy is just starters. The guy has a lot of policies and positions and it doesn’t all come down to just this. There’s more than that. Not that this is minor, but there’s more.

    …

    June 9, 2016 at 1:30 am in reply to: Fisher, 6/8 … vid & transcript #45678
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    Los Angeles Rams Head Coach Jeff Fisher — June 8

    (Opening remarks)

    “We just completed OTA 5. Quite pleased with where we are. Still have some things that need to go in. We did some situational stuff today, which we’ll repeat again before we finish, as well as in camp. Have some guys that we backed down a little bit today. (RB) Todd Gurley got the day off. He’ll be back on the field on Friday. We’re kind of monitoring their bodies and just want to make sure that everyone recovers. He’s been working really hard, so he got the day off. Got a couple minor things going on with a couple of the rookies, but they’ll be back on the field on Friday, I’m sure. Beyond that, quarterbacks are making progress. (QB) Jared’s (Goff) learning. Had some interesting situations out here that he hadn’t seen before in our offense, and he’s learning. Progress is good right now. As it was reported yesterday, we made a roster decision on (WR) Stedman Bailey. He’d been here since the start of our offseason program. With specifics to the roster move, the league requires us to subject him to waivers and then, once he clears, and I believe he’s cleared – we’re going to put him back on a non-football list and then we’re going to decide what we’re going to do with him this year. He will not be able to play. He’s not been cleared. As I’ve said numerous times, he’s lucky to be alive. So impressed he’s gotten back into shape. Willing to play, but really at this point, there’s no medical research that will permit him to play. He’s seen several specialists. With that being said, we’re going to take care of Stedman.”

    (On how he would describe WR Tavon Austin’s development)

    “Tavon’s just getting better every year. He’s focused in on the offense, the changes in the offense. Once he gets comfortable in the offense, we’ll see a lot of big plays out of him.”

    (On the combination of Austin’s size and talents in a league dominated by physicality)

    “The reason we drafted him, number one, is we didn’t want to have to defend him. Secondly, he’s just an explosive athlete. He has great quickness and vision. He’s hard to get down. His acceleration – he can stop and start on a dime. Great hand-eye coordination. I think he’s one of the top punt returners in the league. He’s had numerous returns called back or he would be, early in his career. Then, you see him when he gets the ball in his hands – however that is – he’s got the potential to go the distance.”

    (On what type of role Bailey may end up taking on with the Rams)

    “There’s a lot of different things. I’m going to be selfish and try to bring him over on the coaching side and have him help. He’s done some of that already out here. He’s worked with some of our punt-cover guys. ‘Sted’ was an outstanding special teams player for us, and an outside gunner. There’s a lot of work behind the scenes that needs to be done. We’ll put him behind the desk and bring him out on the field and see how he likes it.”

    (On what extent OTAs can impact the depth chart)

    “I’ll give you an example. Several times a week, we’re going to meet as a staff and each individual coach is going to rank their players from 1 to however many, top to bottom. Well, that ranking changes every time we meet and it’s based on our experience that we’re having out here. So a guy will go from two to three or six to four on a weekly basis, so that’s good for the guys that are rising and not so good for the guys that are falling. But, we’ll do that before we leave and so we’ll have a good feel before we go to camp. As you guys will find out, those things take very quickly, so this has an impact. Again, you have to keep training and re-training your mind that there’s not pads on, and pads are certainly going to be different. Often times, the coaches say, ‘Well, I can’t wait to see him when we put the pads on.’ But, then I say, we have to wait a couple months.”

    (On how DE Ian Seau is doing so far)

    “He’s doing well. He’s a very instinctive player. He understands a lot of things along the defensive line, mainly pass rush. He’s having a blast right now. He’s having fun and improving. I think he has a chance to play some special teams in the preseason.”

    (On his stance on how the heat in Irvine, Calif. can affect a player’s body versus the cooler climate in Oxnard, Calif.)

    “Well, recovery is probably…aside from the reps, recovery is important. We want to make sure that they are recovering. Obviously, it’s a different challenge when you’ve got heat and humidity and things like that. But still none the less, you have to address muscle recovery. It’s going to be significant. In years past, every third practice was an evening practice. But then we also would have a noon practice, just to get them ready for the regular season if we were starting some place with heat. It’s a mental thing, it’s a physical thing. But, obviously, we’re going to have a tremendous break in the weather considering what we’ve been used to. We’ll adjust to that. Fortunately, we’re opening at San Francisco in the evening. If we were opening at Miami atone o’clock, it would be different.”

    (On if the running back depth chart has become more unsettled with Tre Mason’s absence)

    “No, it’s settled right now. I’m pleased with where it’s going. Malcolm’s (Brown) done a great job there as the third, and Chase (Reynolds) is always a guy that you can count on. And we have a couple young guys that we’re going to let play. In our minds, we just have to prepare ourselves that Tre’s not going to be here.”

    (On his impression of the new wide receivers)

    “Well, when you look at the receiver depth chart, you have to be sure that you’re playing them in the right spots. Sometimes you have a guy that you call that ‘slot receiver’ so he has to get most of his reps there. Then, you have the stationary guy, then you have the move guy. What we’re doing, as far as the younger guys are concerned, is we’re trying to plug them in the right spots right now and get them reps so they know what to do, so they can compete. Nothing worse than having a young receiver running the wrong route, especially when you have a young quarterback expecting him to be there and the ball hits the defensive player in the chest – that’s a waste of a rep. You want to make sure you have the young guys in place to compete.”

    (On what he has seen from the free safeties and if he sees that as a competition that can last through camp)

    “Yes, it’s a good group. Christian Bryant is coming on, really taking advantage of this opportunity. Cody (Davis) understands the position; he’s got some game experience. We’ve got a couple young guys that we’ll have to look at in a game, when things are live and they are in a pressure situation.”

    (On what he is looking for in a quarterback beyond consistency)

    “Beyond consistency, it’s production. You’re looking for production, you’re looking for leadership, you’re looking for quality decision-making and that all comes with reps. Really, that all comes with reps. As I started with earlier, Jared (Goff) saw a couple things out here that he hadn’t seen before. The ball ends up in the defensive player’s hands and the best thing about the play was, watching the huddle and he goes, ‘Hey, that one’s on me. That one’s on me, let’s go to the next play and we’ll go on.’ He doesn’t dwell on those things.”

    June 9, 2016 at 12:46 am in reply to: Mannion Taking Advantage of OTAs #45673
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    http://www.ramsfansunited.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2578

    BORAS PLEASED WITH MANNION, KEENUM

    Speaking of quarterbacks, Boras had praise for both Case Keenum and Sean Mannion — particularly the Oregon State product.

    “He’s made huge strides,” Boras said of Mannion. “Physically, he’s changed his body. We’re seeing some of the foot quickness and sudden-twitch stuff that we’ve talked about. And then just, Sean’s a very smart young man. And just watching him work. So have been really pleased. And when he’s had opportunities, he’s really grasped them right now. It’s made that room really competitive.”

    As for Keenum — who has been taking the first-team reps — Boras described Keenum’s leadership standing out.

    “Case is trying to raise everybody’s level, and it’s got to start with himself. And he’s done a nice job with that — trying to hold himself accountable,” Boras said. “And once you can hold yourself accountable, it’s easier to hold the other people accountable.

    “Those three guys have really made that room competitive,” the offensive coordinator added. “And they help each other. Even though they’re all competing for one spot, they’re working together trying to help each other.”

    June 8, 2016 at 11:46 pm in reply to: King Arthur #45672
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    Well based on that scene, I am not sure I would vote for him.

    June 8, 2016 at 11:42 pm in reply to: little glints of optimism for the offense #45671
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    Mackeyser wrote:

    This was according to the Turf Show Times, notoriously a funnel for Fisher’s happy talk.

    I am not sure I think of TST that way. Not that I think of them as objective. I think of them as being more neutral to anti- about Fisher.

    June 8, 2016 at 11:34 pm in reply to: Goff the Week 1 Starter? #45669
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    wv wrote:

    And….just to throw in more weirdness — what if Mannion outplays
    the other two

    He;s still the #3 no matter what. Keenum has more experience and Goff is the guy they traded an infinity of draft picks for so they could take him BEFORE the first pick.

    Goff would have to have a Full Metal Foles meltdown for Mannion to move ahead of him.

    June 8, 2016 at 11:21 pm in reply to: Mike Clay thinks the Rams among the worst teams in the NFL #45667
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    Herzog wrote:

    Vermeil didn’t start out with that talent….he and Arney found and procured and developed that talent.

    If Fisher and Snead do t have the talent they need to win then they can blame no one but themselves.

    Well in principle you’re right, but, I don’t think the issue is talent in 2015, I think it’s injuries (plus a meltdown). I probably didn’t make that clear. I think the 2015/6 roster is crazy with talent, BUT they had 2 years there where a built OL ended up playing injured and then a young OL replaced it and it got injured up too. Then of course they started 3 #2 caliber qbs and watched as Foles started out doing pretty well before he crashed and burned like a drone controlled by a 3 year old on peyote. My point was I don’t think Vermeil would win with that either…and in fact, given the situation, my own opinion is, going 7-9 under those conditions against a tough schedule was pretty good. Better IMO than we had a right to expect.

    And yes the talent acquisition in the Vermeil days was phenomenal. And they did it every single way too–high picks, low picks, expensive FAs, budget FAs, undrafted free agents, NFL europe signings, trades.

    June 8, 2016 at 8:08 pm in reply to: Mike Clay thinks the Rams among the worst teams in the NFL #45658
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    bnw wrote:

    Yet in ’99 Vermeil only had Faulk who was top tier talent. Trent Green went down in preseason replaced by a very unknown Kurt Warner at QB. Pace was beginning to shine at LT. Holt was a rookie. Bruce was a known commodity. Marty brought all of it to bear and while the injury bug wasn’t a major factor for starters that season it was Vermeil’s guidance that kept things running smoothly.

    The Dick Vermeil of ’99 could have won.

    Well…no. In 99 he had Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Proehl, Hakim, and a top veteran OL (and in terms of injuries, Nutten missed 2 games). He also had a top 6 defense Doesn’t matter who was a rookie or where Warner came from. That is formidable talent. In 2015 he would have had Gurley, a young (then multiply injured) OL, and a good defense (which however slowly got whittled down with key injuries). He might have had a decently okay Foles except he melted down. There was no Warner behind Foles. In fact, the vast majority of times the starting qb goes down or collapses and is benched, there is no Warner behind him.

    Holt was top tier talent in 99 as his play demonstrates. Same with Bruce. Same with Warner. Warner had 41 TDs that year. How is that not top tier.

    …

    ..

    June 8, 2016 at 6:42 pm in reply to: Goff the Week 1 Starter? #45652
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    zn wrote:

    The Rams averaged 17.5 points a game last season. There is no guarantee the Rams can score more than that with Case Keenum or Goff.

    They already scored more than that when Keenum played.

    .

    June 8, 2016 at 5:38 pm in reply to: Robinson #45647
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    Rams can’t wait any more for Greg Robinson to take next step

    Nick Wagoner

    http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/29711/rams-cant-wait-any-more-for-greg-robinson-to-take-next-step

    OXNARD, Calif. — Los Angeles Rams left tackle Greg Robinson is well aware of the importance of his third NFL season.

    As the former No. 2 overall pick in the 2014 NFL draft, Robinson has yet to live up to the lofty expectations that go with that status. After accumulating more holding penalties than any player in the league and struggling in pass protection for much of the 2015 season, Robinson has left outside observers unafraid to use the “B” — as in bust — word when describing him.

    But as Robinson goes through the team’s organized team activities, he isn’t allowing the chatter about his early career struggles to bother him. That’s because he has too many other things to worry about, like opening holes for prized running back Todd Gurley and keeping No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff upright in the pocket.

    “I really won’t allow myself to put any pressure on myself before I need to,” Robinson said. “So it is a big role, I think the most important thing is just between now and September when we have to play is just prepare myself as best as possible and eliminate all the things I struggle with and try my best to provide the best protection possible for him.”

    A strong argument could be made that for the Rams to improve offensively in 2016, there’s no more important player than Robinson. Sure, Goff is taking over the most important position and Gurley is the focal point of the system, but Robinson is vital in giving both of them an opportunity to maximize their success.

    It’s a notion that isn’t lost on Robinson and has been apparent to the coaching staff.

    “The entire offensive line has doubled in size here in the weight room,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “They’re all bigger and stronger and quicker, so that’s a good thing. Greg is throwing around a lot more weight. He has a much better feel for what we’re doing. He’s sitting at the front of the classroom. He wants to prove something, and that’s a good thing for him.”

    Another good thing for Robinson is that he’s back to full strength after toe surgery. Its lingering effects slowed him considerably last offseason and into the regular season. Having a full offseason to work out puts Robinson ahead of where he was a year ago at this time, though that offseason work has brought on some mixed results.

    On one hand, Robinson was able to use a chunk of that time focusing on refining his technique and fundamentals. He spent six weeks training with former NFL offensive lineman LeCharles Bentley in Arizona.

    “It’s not super-aggressive workouts, it’s just mainly technical work,” Robinson said. “He does a great job of it. Just in that small period of time where I was in Arizona, I felt like I made a lot of progress.”

    Assuming that technical work aligns with what Rams offensive line coach Paul Boudreau has been working to teach Robinson, it should help him avoid some of the issues that threw him off balance and led to penalties in his first two seasons. Robinson drew 16 flags in 2015, with 13 of those infractions accepted for a whopping 114 yards. In two seasons in the league, Robinson has been flagged for 24 accepted penalties for 209 yards.

    But Robinson and the Rams believe that he made substantial progress over the final quarter of the season. He was penalty-free in the final two games, and his pass protection improved as the Rams yielded just three sacks total in the final five games.

    “I feel like throughout the year there was ups and downs but the last four games, I feel like I made really big strides and it [still] wasn’t my best and this year I really just want to focus on picking up where I left off,” Robinson said. “Mentally and physically, I was working a lot smoother and just creating a lot of room on the back end. Just focusing on my technique work and just going and listening to Coach Bou, it really helped me out.”

    While Robinson spent most of his offseason focusing on fundamentals, he didn’t exactly come back in top shape. He played last season between 316 and 321 pounds and though he wouldn’t tip his hand on where he’s at now, he did acknowledge that he has some work to do to get back into the 315- to 318-pound range by the start of the regular season in September.

    “I came in a little heavy,” Robinson said. “Right now, I’m just monitoring what exactly I put into my body. But as long as I feel good at my weight then I can prove to them that I’m capable of moving at whichever weight I’m in. I don’t think it’s a problem because I won’t allow myself to get sloppy.”

    June 8, 2016 at 4:09 pm in reply to: interview vids: Tavon, Keenum, Hayes #45638
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    Hayes OTA Press Conference – 6/7

    Defensive end Williams Hayes talks about his decision to return to the Rams in free agency and the state of the defense.

    http://www.therams.com/videos/videos/Hayes-OTA-Press-Conference—67/7e2bfa44-86af-4cfc-8712-5ffcdb4cba6e

    June 8, 2016 at 11:24 am in reply to: OL gold standard–avg. starts and avg. years of experience #45622
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    zn wrote:

    avg, 2 years, 15.2 starts

    That was the Rams OL last year…and the standard for good lines is 4.1 years and 44.8 games started.

    And then it had 5 injuries: Saffold, Hav, Brown, Donnal, and Williams. Those 5 injuries meant 3 spots were shuffled: Reynolds had to play ROT instead of guard, and then they needed 2 guards. It settled down when Hav came back and Reynolds shifted to LOG, where he was better than he was at OT.

    …

    June 8, 2016 at 11:03 am in reply to: Mike Clay thinks the Rams among the worst teams in the NFL #45615
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    bnw wrote:
    zn wrote:
    JackPMiller wrote:

    The Rams need to make the playoffs for Jeff Fisher. If they don’t, I cannot see why Fisher would deserve a new contract. Another losing season, for me, should be looking for a new Head Coach. One that wins.

    I doubt that’s the way Stan is thinking.

    And I submit to you that no coach wins if he has to deal with the kinds of things thet Rams have had to deal with the last 2 years.

    .

    Dick Vermeil won in ’99.

    He wouldn’t have in 2015.

    ..

    June 8, 2016 at 10:08 am in reply to: Mannion Taking Advantage of OTAs #45608
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    Ex-Oregon State QB Sean Mannion working hard at L.A. Rams OTAs

    Tim Brown | The Oregonian/OregonLive

    http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2016/06/ex-oregon_state_qb_sean_mannio.html

    Former Oregon State quarterback Sean Mannion is getting an opportunity to show what he learned during his rookie season in the NFL.

    The Los Angeles Rams have three quarterbacks participating during offseason workouts and OTAs, and Mannion is enjoying the chance to display his talent in combination with the year of experience he now possesses.

    “It’s one thing to know it in the meeting room, but then to execute it and to not think twice about anything, just reacting out on the field — I think that takes a little bit more time and a little bit more reps,” Mannion told therams.com.

    Mannion has been sharing reps with Jared Goff, the No. 1 pick of the 2016 NFL draft and backup Case Keenum. Nick Foles has been skipping the team’s voluntary OTAs and is looking to be traded after the Rams selected Goff.

    Mannion worked with the first team last Friday.

    “It felt good to get a lot of work, and get to go with the first group. I try to prepare every day as though I’m the starter, and I got a lot of chances today,” Mannion said. “I feel like I did a good job. I felt prepared. I felt comfortable out there. And I thought I made the most of it.

    “I’ve gotten a lot of reps. I feel more and more comfortable just going out there and playing. I think that’s what I did.”

    The 6-foot-6 Mannion hardly played in 2015 after he was selected by the Rams in the third round (89th overall) of the 2015 NFL draft. He was on the healthy inactive list for most of the regular season, appearing in one game. He completed six of seven passes for 31 yards during the Rams 31-7 loss at Cincinnati Nov. 29.

    Mannion’s performances were limited to work in practice during the 2015 season and don’t expect to see Mannion on the field very often during the 2016 season as well.

    The Rams are grooming Goff to eventually start either at the beginning of the regular season or sometime during the season. Foles looks like he’s on the way out and Keenum is the backup to either Foles or Goff.

    Regardless of his status at the position, Mannion said he will continue to work hard on improving his fundamentals.

    “Keep making good decisions with the football, be accurate,” Mannion said. “Just, really, always try to focus on the fundamentals — footwork, accuracy. Make sure I’m going through all the reads the right way. I feel like I’ve done a good job of that so far for three OTA practices. We’ve got six more left and I just want to keep building off that day by day.”

    June 8, 2016 at 10:06 am in reply to: Mike Clay thinks the Rams among the worst teams in the NFL #45607
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    JackPMiller wrote:

    The Rams need to make the playoffs for Jeff Fisher. If they don’t, I cannot see why Fisher would deserve a new contract. Another losing season, for me, should be looking for a new Head Coach. One that wins.

    I doubt that’s the way Stan is thinking.

    And I submit to you that no coach wins if he has to deal with the kinds of things thet Rams have had to deal with the last 2 years.

    .

    June 8, 2016 at 9:57 am in reply to: Keenum will be the starter to open camp…how close or far is Goff? #45605
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    from NFL rookie projections: Will Ezekiel Elliott live up to the hype?

    By Bucky Brooks

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000667087/article/nfl-rookie-projections-will-ezekiel-elliott-live-up-to-the-hype

    Gared Goff, QB, Los Angeles Rams
    Best-case scenario: The Rams ease their franchise quarterback into the role by relying heavily on Todd Gurley to carry the offensive load. The 2015 Offensive Rookie of the Year sets the table for the offense with his electric running skills, which forces opponents to use eight-man boxes (or seven-man fronts against one-back sets) to slow down the Rams’ new shotgun-heavy attack. With the team featuring a number of quick-rhythm pass concepts designed to get the ball out of Goff’s hands quickly, the one-on-one matchups created by Gurley’s presence could help the rookie get off to a fast start in Hollywood as he quickly develops a strong rapport with Tavon Austin and Kenny Britt in the passing game.

    My projection: 3,300 passing yards, 19 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.

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