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There’s something wrong with Carson Wentz’s throwing style and NFL teams are catching on
Charles Robinson
Carson Wentz doesn’t believe he has issues with his throwing mechanics. Some NFL evaluators disagree.
That was the takeaway after the Philadelphia Eagles’ 32-14 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday, which featured a three-interception outing from Wentz and one of his worst performances of his rookie season. The quarterback has come back to earth after a stunning 3-0 start to the season. Now several personnel evaluators familiar with the Eagles and Wentz are pointing to a common thread, one that the quarterback and coaching staff may not share agreement.
The Eagles have some work to do on Wentz’s throwing motion.
That’s the common theme in the assessments of multiple NFL personnel evaluators who say Wentz is exhibiting some of the mechanical flaws that he illustrated prior to the NFL draft. And evaluators say they are manifesting in accuracy issues and the length of time it takes for Wentz to deliver the ball after making a decision.
Wentz didn’t seem to agree with such an assessment on Sunday, when he said his mistakes were garden-variety errors that are prone to happen when throwing the football frequently. Wentz made 60 attempts on Sunday and completed 36 passes.
“I don’t think it’s the mechanics,” Wentz said after Sunday’s loss. “You make mistakes. Things happen.”
But a handful of personnel evaluators who spoke to Yahoo Sports over the past week about Wentz’s mechanics said his throwing motion is showing up prominently on film. They also believe it’s leading to some accuracy issues and mistakes. Two issues in particular are sticking out to those who have viewed the rookie quarterback: a long-armed looping windup that needs to be more compact; and an awkward arm position in the middle of his throwing motion that is slowing down his delivery.
One NFC East source likened Wentz’s arm positioning to something from a baseball pitcher. Another evaluator said the rookie displayed “bountiful bad arm angles” during his throwing motion.
“[The] ball is dropped down, turned out, then looped back around,” one evaluator said. “With his long arms and that motion, [it’s] very hard to be accurate. Especially on the move. … [The] inability to get the ball out quick and on time is key.”
The motion was also something that concerned the Cleveland Browns in their scouting evaluations of Wentz, prior to their trading of the No. 2 overall pick to the Eagles. A Browns source told Yahoo Sports Wentz’s motion was noted in draft evaluations – though he also maintained trading the No. 2 pick was more about netting draft picks than not liking Wentz.
Interestingly, a league source told Yahoo Sports that restyling Wentz’s throwing motion was an important bullet point on the Eagles’ offseason docket, but that the team was able to make only marginal progress before the start of the regular season. According to the source, those efforts were spearheaded by Eagles head coach Doug Pederson and offensive coordinator Frank Reich, both former NFL quarterbacks.
As the process moved along, there was a hope to continue developing Wentz during a “redshirt” rookie season. However, that timeline changed when Wentz was elevated from No. 3 quarterback to starter following the Eagles’ trade of Sam Bradford to the Minnesota Vikings. The source said the Eagles realized at that point that any serious strides to refine Wentz’s motion were likely going to have to wait until next offseason.
In essence, this was supposed to be the season when the Eagles drilled down on his mechanics and worked the kinks out. That was taken off the table, and now evaluators are attributing some of his struggles to that reality.
Some of that has also become a more pressing topic in Philadelphia, as the Eagles have stumbled to 5-7 and last in the NFC East – with Wentz being a part of those struggles. During that 3-0 start, Wentz threw five touchdowns and no interceptions. In the 2-7 stretch that has ensued, Wentz’s touchdown-to-interception ratio has been 7-to-11. While the mistakes and losses have come from a variety of issues, the work needed for Wentz has been showcased in some of his individual miscues.
This could be seen in the loss to the Bengals, when his long, looped throwing motion was particularly evident in at least two of his interceptions. In them, Wentz’s windup was so pronounced that he dropped the ball to (or below) his waist – something that was a notable trait in some of his college film. It’s a flaw considered fixable (or at least improvable) and it’s most commonly addressed by teams in the offseason.
“Augmenting [a throwing motion] is a lot of process, process, process. A lot of repetition. And it can be incremental – maybe even several years,” one evaluator said. “There is some elimination involved that can wreak havoc with a quarterback mentally. So you have to be careful with it – try some things and if the changes start making problems worse, you move on to something else. That’s why it’s an offseason thing because you need the time to be deliberate. … It’s not easy. You can tinker and get really bad [results].”
The Eagles may not be at that point with Wentz, but it appears the offseason bullet point is still there. That 3-0 start is in the rear-view mirror. Now it’s the 2-7 fall speaking most loudly. There is plenty of work left for Wentz and his throwing motion. And Philadelphia can probably see it more clearly than anyone.
LMU93
View from Section 120, Row 21…
Fun day at Gillette Stadium yesterday. Clear and sunny and about 40 degrees, mild wind. Pretty chilly… Stadium was shaded where were were (closed endzone, 4th row above the field level bar). Ended up seeing more Rams fans than we expected, I’d guess 50-60 so maybe a couple hundred in the stadium. The father and son next to our seats were also Rams fans. They met Tyler Higbee’s mom at a Dunkin Donuts before the game.
My own perspectives up close…
Pretty tame crowd, I have to say. Honestly, probably spoiled… Late arriving, not nearly as loud as the Superdome. People in our section chatting and not watching and walking around the concourses a lot. Also quite a few more inebriated people than the Saints game… Not much grief from Patriots fans. A few “maybe next year” or “hey look, a Rams fan!” comments on the way out. Guy behind me (very drunk) taps me on the shoulder (wearing my #85 jersey) during the game and slurs “whoooosss Youngblood?…” He had to be at least 40 and I just said “Really?..”
Offense: Weather was a factor in that I think the receivers had a hard time with catching a cold ball. The football is hard in the cold and I don’t think they were prepared. Not an excuse as we all saw the 4-5 drops. And it’s not like it was 20 degrees. But it is what it is. Quick was the only WR that really showed anything at all, though he had a couple more he should have come down with.
By the way, at the 2:00 warning (4th and 11) I got up to go to the bathroom. Come back and the Rams are at the 2-yard line right in front of me. I missed the pass to Britt. Typical…..
Goff was slightly off, not nearly as sharp in his timing as I saw at the Superdome last Sunday. A crossing pattern to Cooper was a foot behind him vs. a foot in front, etc. Still holding the ball too long hoping something comes open, very typical of a rookie, but 3 of the 4 sacks were because of that. But also again very calm, not rattled, seemed in command of the “offense.”
There’s just no beating around the bush. The Rams offensive line is really bad. I mean really. Bad. Patriots TV and radio analysts after the game and this morning are amazed at how poor that unit is. This team is all in on Goff and Gurley so the offseason personnel upgrades have to start there.
I watched different OL a lot on drives closer to us. From what I saw in person I think Havenstein and Brown are keepers. They missed Saffold though honestly not sure how much of a difference he’d have made. I think Wichmann may be best suited to slide to center. Robinson and Barnes need to be replaced. Actually with Barnes I’d equate him to Keenum- he’s a good guy you’d like to have on the team and can handle spot starting, but he’s just not a starting NFL player. Make him the backup center and lose Rhaney. Blocking in general didn’t pick up blitzes well. As in almost at all…
I hate to say it but when Kendricks dropped that pass that got picked off I knew the game was over. I had said all week that the only way the Rams stay close is with zero turnovers. They were going to lose no matter what because of Brady and coaching but it could have been more respectable if the receivers at least held onto the ball. I don’t think they missed Austin, honestly. I was glad to see Cooper get playing time.
Defense: I’ll start by saying Matt Longacre is better than Eugene Sims at RDE. He is. He’s a better pass rusher, faster. Sims blew outside contain a couple times and outside contain in general as a team was sloppy. That’s how Blount scored that opening TD.
Seeing the game in person if anything the Rams were the more physical team (on defense vs. Patriots offense). And their run defense was good apart from that busted outside contain on Blount’s TD.
The defense really wasn’t bad at all apart from that run and the TD pass to Hogan which was near us and just a beautiful throw… They really did settle down and play well after that 2nd TD. The Rams defense was more physical than the Patriots. Credit Brady for still at age 39 being able to slide around in the pocket and avoid 2-3 sacks. Westbrooks was probably our most disruptive DL Sunday. Pass rush overall was again not very good. Of course the Patriots game planned by having so many quick and short throws to negate it but when Brady did drop back he wasn’t harassed the way the Rams needed to. I’m not sure if Quinn would have helped much but sure would have been nice to have him in there of course (especially instead of Sims). Donald wasn’t as disruptive as I thought he’d be. The Patriots also clearly were looking ahead and wanted to manage Brady’s knee issue this week.
I thought Joyner, Barron and McDonald had good games. I didn’t notice when #35 Jordan came in but once I did I watched him. He wasn’t bad in the face of clearly getting picked on by Brady and WR Malcolm Mitchell. Didn’t allow any big plays, kept things in front of him. Defended one pass.
When your offense puts that much stress on you as a defense plus you’re playing Tom Brady on the road you’re in a tough spot. I thought this could have been something like a 27-16 game if the Rams didn’t turn the ball over and it looked that way to me in person.
Special teams: Hekker is special…. He really is. And Marquez is a fabulous gunner and special teams player.
That’s about it. As I said last week it speaks to where I am as a fan because I did have a lot of fun at both the Saints and Patriots games. But I’ll be glad to be home next Sunday watching the Falcons game….
It has been 8 years since Fishers last winning season.
Jack.
I have some advice for you.
Repeating the same things over and over without actually taking account of responses is not debate. That’s even if you are completely swallowed up in “my opinion is truth”-itis and don’t know how to actually discuss things.
I already responded to every claim you make and you did not respond to the actual response. You don’t’ want to debate, you want to post slogans. Fine. Carry on. But I;m out.
Forget about the record before coming here. This team has not shown any improvement.
ETC.
Sigh.
JACK:
Jeff Fisher is not a winner. The last time he had a team in the playoffs was 2008ZN: Yeah that’s what some people always say.
For the record I regard it as bs.
His actually history includes teams that valley then peak. If you look at the valleys there are always reasons. For example only one team in the history of the NFL won while moving, and what tilts Fisher’s record is moving twice.
For another, he has several years there with no qb and to compound it, with multiply injured OLs. No one can name any coach that won under those specific conditions.
And so you do not know what the owner thinks. He might think like you—he might be a Recordite and not a Contextista.
But he might also be a Contextista who believes Fisher CAN win.
OZONE: I say bullshit. Six winning seasons in 22 years. That number speaks volumes.
Yes. Spoken like a true Recordite. Well I am a Contextista, and to me, when you squash years together to make flat statistical averages, you distort the picture. So for example the record is influenced by the fact that the last and first years were teams that moved, and those (with one exception) never win.
Which one of us is right? The Recordite or the Contextista?
THE REAL TRUTH? In spite of our convictions neither of us really knows. It’s just a clash of opinions.
With this qualification.
Recordites act like Records are The Truth.
Contextistas act like Knowing Contexts is Truer.
To quote Raising Arizona, there’s what’s right, and there’s what’s right, and never the twain shall meet.
Can Trump over-ride all that, if he wants?
w
vYes, if he wants. Would depend upon if the decision had reasonable merit or if it was politically motivated.
Yes because Trump himself would never do anything politically motivated. He’s all about reasonable merit.
