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wvParticipantYeah but the quote sorta implies that prior to this year he wasn’t as dedicated to mastering his craft as he is now. I think it takes some of the really special athletes time to figure out that athleticism by itself isn’t enough in the NFL.
I just took it as (potentially) a Brian Quick situation, ie. he’s breaking through. Going from more green to more savvy. I don’t think it meant he didn’t work before.
I agree with you. Although I still don’t think he’ll be any good.
I dunno. I suppose I think he’s ‘already’ good, in that
he’s going to break some games open on special teams every year.I think he’s a special and complementary player.
If they have a healthy QB and some weapons around him,
I think he’ll do some az-hakim type things. But he’s not
a Randy Moss type thats going to dominate on his own.I dunno if he was “worth moving up to number 8 for”. Probly not.
But he’s still a dangerous player who is just coming
into his prime. So, we’ll see.wvParticipantI love Fisher’s style of football and he’s done a lot of impressive things. I really do expect the defense to do amazing things this year as long as the CB play holds up. Drafting has been solid if not spectacular. He has his players’ respect and – for the most part – has kept them from collapsing through some pretty bad stretches.
I worry about the slow starts, and I don’t think it’s being soft. He just keeps going into the season with disastrous plans: the spread offense, relying on Richardson and Pead to run the ball, last year’s abysmal start on defense and the iffy OL depth. The wideout play was actually pretty good last year, especially before Quick got hurt, but it still seems to me like part of the trend of taking big chances. While that gamble paid off, it was still a pretty big gamble to go into camp with the options that they had.
The lack of discipline really concerns me, too. I feel like it’s a Fisher thing. Personal fouls, constant mental errors, and players out of position just seem like symptoms of teams that lack discipline. I love smash mouth football. I love seeing an OL and a great back just break down a D. I love seeing defenses win games even more. You’ll never hear me complain about a hard fought 7-3 game involving 2 great defensive teams. The thing about that approach, though, is that you can’t make big mistakes and win consistently. Fisher teams seem to make a lot of big mistakes.
Finally, It seems to me that Fisher’s staff are poor tacticians. They so consistently play strong first halves only to get beat up in the second half. I don’t know Xs and Os well enough to have an informed opinion on this, and I only watch the games live these days so it’s especially hard to tell. They just seem to be outcoached in a lot of second halves.
I have hope for this year, but I have worries too. This could be an 10-6 team, but it could be a 6-10 team too. If we don’t see something much better than what we’ve seen so far, he should go.
Always good to hear from you,
Trench.w
vwvParticipantWhy would that be?
I’d like to see some sort of survey
of the effect of penalties in ‘close games’.Penalties certainly killed the rams in
the Dallas game. Though a couple of them
weren’t really penalties.w
vwvParticipantThe majority will press for further 2nd amendment protection.
Right. Because in the face of tragedy, most Americans’ first response is to hug their guns more tightly.
But given what most americans have been taught,
thats the appropriate response, right?I mean, most americans have been drenched in disinformation,
misinformation, and propaganda for so long….thats all they know: hug your guns.Its the system.
w
vJune 18, 2015 at 2:18 pm in reply to: The Rams Aren’t the Only NFC West Team With O-Line Issues #26550wvParticipantThe Cardinals have the best Oline in the NFC west?
Man, when did ‘that’ happen?
I can remember when they couldnt block
a fly.w
vwvParticipanti dunno. I dont have anything ‘new’ to say on the subject
of violence in America. I assume we all agree there
are gigantic underlying causes that have very very little
to do with whether or not the “gun laws” are loosened or tightened.I know in my public-defender-practice, over the last ten years,
I’ve seen more and more and more humans turn to violence
because of the desperate situations they find themselves in.
By desperate situations i mean economic and psychological.
I am also seeing a HUGE jump in mentally-ill folks. Just a huge jump
in the numbers. Perhaps people are drinking too much fracked-water,
I dunno.w
v
‘Is it surprising that prisons resemble factories, schools, barracks, hospitals, which all resemble prisons? ”
Michael FoucaultwvParticipantPlus, a well executed rear naked choke with a locked body triangle is a thing of beauty all by itself
I think Conrad Dobler perfected that one
didnt he?w
vJune 17, 2015 at 5:33 pm in reply to: Fisher, Cignetti, Foles 6/16 transcripts, + articles that repeat the transcripts #26497wvParticipantI wonder what that means exactly. WHY did they shorten the verbiage on offense. Are the Rams players dum?
Is it a bad idea to do that? Good idea?w
vTwins Right Ace Right 999 H Balloon.
Whatta ya think? Is this “complex”, or simplified?
Well, it would confuse me: in my day, we just said “everybody go long”
w
vJune 17, 2015 at 10:12 am in reply to: Fisher, Cignetti, Foles 6/16 transcripts, + articles that repeat the transcripts #26432wvParticipant“…Still, head coach Jeff Fisher said one of the changes Cignetti’s made is cutting down on the verbiage of the offensive playbook.
“I think the players would tell you that he’s shortened the play calls from a terminology standpoint,” Fisher said. “We have some flexibility to do some things, I think, that match up better with our personnel and we’re just going to continue to work with it.”….I wonder what that means exactly. WHY did they shorten the verbiage on offense. Are the Rams players dum?
Is it a bad idea to do that? Good idea?w
vJune 16, 2015 at 8:46 pm in reply to: Rams training camp schedule/Rams spend part of 2015 training camp in LA #26414wvParticipantI think the Dallas practices may be somewhat important.
Kinda moves against that ‘fisher is soft’ meme.
Dallas is feisty.w
vJune 16, 2015 at 2:06 pm in reply to: Dr. Erin Shannon, the holistic practitioner several Rams swear by #26382wvParticipantI dunno. “Energy medicine” ? Is that like Reiki?
What is it exactly?June 16, 2015 at 7:12 am in reply to: "Marc Bulger one of the most under appreciated players in St.L. Rams history" #26357wvParticipantNote the quick release. …back when the rams actually
threw over the middle…-
This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by
wv.
wvParticipantGood article. Lots of stuff in there.
w
vwvParticipantI am surprised the corporate-PR-folks are just getting around
to this. I figured they had this kind of thing
in place a long time ago.w
vwvParticipantWe been waiting a long time RFL — I’m tellin ya, this is our year
Top seven D. Efficient O. Great Special teams. Playoffs.
You’ll see.w
vLOL. Well, I hope to hell you’re right! It’d be nice for the Rams to earn respect again.
You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. I hope someday you’ll join us. And the world will live as one.”
― John Lennonw
vwvParticipantWhether or not it’s disagreement, I think we see it differently.
I am often skeptical of “trajectory” arguments in general. I think that, each year, numerous teams are either better or worse than a “trajectory” projection from the previous year would suggest.
Ok. Always a pleasure reading your thoughts, RFL. We probably see some
things differently, sure.I’ll tell ya, the Giant game and the Cardinal game were major disappointments for me.
Really annoying. The Seattle game…well, playing Seattle in Seattle is just a nightmare
so i didnt expect much in that one.We been waiting a long time RFL — I’m tellin ya, this is our year 🙂
Top seven D. Efficient O. Great Special teams. Playoffs.
You’ll see.w
vwvParticipant… for me, the real diagnosis has little to do with freak big plays and far more to do with team discipline. A competitively disciplined team with the defensive talent we had would not have lost those winning positions against DAL and SF…
That’s what I hold Fisher responsible for.I think Fisher has a lot of virtues as a coach. He’s good with players. He doesn’t panic when things go bad. I think he has a quality vision of winning football.
But I have yet to see him run a Ram team out there that had its shit together and said to its opponents, “You’re going to have to beat us. We ain’t gonna beat ourselves.” That’s a pretty damning indictment of a head coach.
Well, one thing I ‘think’ we disagree on is the…oh..I’ll just call it the “trajectory of the defense.”
I saw a team that was lost early on, on defense — but got better. I saw a ‘trajectory of improvement.’
So that is promising, i think. Leads me to be optimistic. I think the D might carry this team further this year
based on what i SAW last year. Were there still problems on defense? — yes, definitely. But the arrow seemed to pointing up.Yes? No? Not sure ?
w
vwvParticipantBrett Favre in between Butkus and Otto?
I dunno that I’d have him that high.
Heck I might put Bulger on the list.
He played with broken ribs.w
vwvParticipant“Where do you stand on Fisher as of now”?
I’m standing on his neck, I think.
Yelling, quite loudly, ” Now! Now is the time to put together a winning season, and a playoff berth”!
Very excited when they hired him, <nobr>great expectations</nobr> for sure. The past is what it is, I guess. I can forgive the losing seasons where injuries certainly had a <nobr>major impact</nobr> on the ability to win. Starting QB lost for almost 2 seasons, OL getting hit hard. Timing was bad, as well. The injuries happened at a time when the division was going from weak to very strong. Mebbe in a weaker division the injuries would not hurt quite as bad. Dunno about that either. <nobr>Hindsight</nobr> being what it is, acknowledged.
I am slightly concerned about the various opinions of him being ” too soft”, and an average 8-8 coach, though. I do like a coach that creates a good locker room, and is well liked and respected by the players. More so than a <nobr>disciplinarian</nobr>.
If they are able to get through this season injury free, then I guess the Emporers clothes will be there (or not) for all to see, and we’ll have a better understanding of where the team really is.
They’ve got a good base, I think. My glass is always half full, so I am looking forward to a decent season.
But still, with my boot on his neck.
As far as the “too soft” thing — I remember Dick Vermeil saying he didnt know how he
could be an effective coach if he were coaching under these new rules, because
the Rules dont really allow that ‘old school’ approach anymore. So,
I’m not sure Fisher is really doing things all “that” much different
from the other coaches. I think the differences may be overblown just a bit.w
vwvParticipantI think the injuries to his starting QB
two years in a row just make it impossible
to really vote up or down on Fisher.But like i said in the other post, he went out
and got himself a new QB. and he drafted
a Fisher-OLine, and so, now….we will see.Barring catastrophic injuries 🙂
As I’ve said before though, I KNOW Fisher
can build a “winner”. I know he can build
a “Playoff team”. An ornery, tough, playoff team.But can he win a RING ? Or is he another
Shotenheimer or KNox ? Good but not Great.I dunno.
w
vwvParticipantSun can you name a team that doesn’t play hard?
Obviously Philly was ALSO playing hard…they won the game.
That’s not an anomaly.
Against the Rams last year I would put the Raiders Washington and Broncos in that category. All of those teams played tough at times but not against the Rams. I am not impressed with Fisher. I see him as an 8-8 guy that gets lucky sometimes but damn would I love to be proven wrong.
I’m ok with Fisher so far. I’m not thrilled but I’m ok with him.
Mainly because its just hard to fault a coach when the Starting QB
of a really young team
gets knocked out two years in a row.But he went out and got Foles and drafted ‘his’ OLine — so,
we’ll see.I’m expecting to see a playoff team this year,
with a top 7 defense.
Themz iz my expectations.w
vwvParticipantThis kind of thing makes me smile, fwiw.
Doesn’t guarantee improvement, obviously,
but it does ‘suggest’ reason for hope, I think:From the Joyner article:
——
What was the hardest part about his rookie campaign?“Just adapting. Just learning the system. Just coming from a successful year at the college level and you think you know everything and you’re just on the wrong path, you need to get adjusted,” Joyner said. “Coach (Gregg) Williams was a great example of molding me out of that and molding me into the young man I am now.”
What the 5-foot-8, 184-pound defensive back is now is a player who is far more aware of what he is doing in the Rams’ defensive scheme, a player fighting for snaps among the team’s cornerbacks and a player who has earned some praise for his play so far during OTAs.
“I feel like my approach is different and that’s probably coming from the more understanding I have, the more wisdom I have and just knowing what I’m doing,” Joyner said. “Instead of running out there like a blind dog in a meat house and you don’t know which way to go, I know what I’m doing, so now I can pretty much contribute to the defense.”
How much different does Joyner feel now within the defense than he was a year ago as a rookie second-round pick? Joyner said the coaches have used the words “light years” to describe the difference.
wvParticipantFive pounds of muscle a week?
I dunno. Is that possible?
w
vwvParticipantWhats your take on Janoris Jenkins?
You probably won’t like my take, which I have offered before.
I think Jenkins is talented, but itchy. He plays best when he is aggressively up in a Man relationship to a receiver. He’s pretty damn good in that role, I think.
When he’s back off the guy, he gets restless and he will bite on double moves. He’ll cheat up, try to jump short routes, and let guys get behind him.
In other words, he doesn’t really match Williams’ system. Williams apparently wants to play off and contain to facilitate his blitzes. That requires disciplined CBs. JJ is a poor fit for that role.
I cant say I disagree with that. Though, I’m not sure.
He’s got so much raw talent…but i dunno about him.
I’m not sure about Tru Johnson, either.I think they will draft a CB high next year.
w
vwvParticipantThe 49ers had the next biggest variance, and then the Colts.
As a moderator, I am forced to reprimand you for faulty chart reading.
The next biggest was the Bengals. Then SF, then the Colts.
Where did you get your football metric chart reading skills, a cracker jack box?
BTW here’s how many top 10 defenses the Rams played in 2014: Seattle, Seattle, SF, SF, Denver, Phil. They won half those games.
Well in general would you agree that GW runs a very ‘risky’ defense? High risk high reward — that kind of system?
People have said that for a long time about GW defenses. But then he has orchestrated a few top 5 defenses. One thing I liked about last year is that minus the coverage mistakes that led to Big Boneheaded Passing TDS (BBPTD) the safety play was good as anything we have seen in years.
Whats your take on Janoris Jenkins?
w
vwvParticipantinterestingly enough if you click on that link. there’s a category called “VAR” which measures variance. the rams? ranked 32nd in that category. the LEAST consistent defense in the nfl.
that’s their biggest problem right there. they’re young though. and they’re FINALLY in the same system for the second year in a row. i don’t take that lightly. maybe it’s not a big deal. i think it’s a big deal though.
The 49ers had the next biggest variance, and then the Colts.
w
vwvParticipantMistakes can be divided into two categories. The big mistakes that kill you and the mistakes that happen over and over again and kill you. I think it would be easier to correct the reoccurring mistakes, unless the same big mistakes are reoccurring.
Well in general would you agree that GW runs a very ‘risky’ defense?
High risk high reward — that kind of system?And in general, do you ‘like’ that kind of defense as opposed
to what might be called a ‘sounder’ safer defensive scheme?w
vwvParticipantIt’s good to hear acknowledgements of the problems beyond big plays.
But, no one goes around not acknowledging those other issues. It’s much more the case that we intepret them and their significance differently.
OK, I guess I am confused here.
I see a thread discussing 1 factor. Only 1.
I think A) it’s the wrong single factor, B) it won’t in itself change much and C) the board discussion rarely discusses the issues that I DO think are the keys.
Might others see those factors as well? Sure. I dunno. All I know is what IS actually discussed.
There’s this weird thing here. WV says we don’t disagree. You say everyone sees all of what I am talking about. Yet I can’t, after almost a year of trying, get a discussion going of the stuff that seems to me to be crucial. You say it’s because people see it but interpret differently. OK. But that would make more sense to me if I were seeing a discussion that engaged these things.
Well, whatever. In some weird way, we see the same things and we really don’t, and, at least to me, the differences matter.
Well, I still say we dont disagree on much of the substantive stuff.
I just think we have different posting styles, writing-styles, that sort of thing.
I totally agree the defense needs to be more ‘systemically sound.’
I think the reason that doesnt get hashed out a lot on the board is simply
because most of us dont know enough about the X’s and O’s to say much
about ‘how’ that should happen.The first game will be a nice test for the D. They’ll have to
stop Marshawn and contain Russell Wilson. We’ll see.w
vwvParticipantUm, the failures of the defensive unit last year were NOT just about big plays. They just weren’t.
Beginning in training camp and continuing through the first quarter of the season, the defense couldn’t get off the field for long stretches. They couldn’t get to the QB. They played soft coverage and conceded possession throw after possession throw with minimal resistance.
They also couldn’t stop the run for long stretches at a time. Not just a few big runs, but repeatedly. Soft deployments, conceded running lanes.
The thesis that the problem lay just in a few anomalous big plays simply does not account for the facts.
My perception and memory, of course. But I’m pretty confident in my memory of all this. I certainly posted about it all obsessively enough. I understand that my view is out of step with the loose consensus on the board. But I simply feel it’s important to attest to patterns of breakdown that were pretty debilitating.
Well I only said I was confident they’d “make the playoffs” — not,
be a top team or elite team. Playoffs just means 9 or 10 wins these days.If they only eliminate the big melt-down plays, i think they can get three or four more wins.
Now, to be a real threat to win it all ? — Sure they’d have CONSISTENTLY stop the run, etc, and so forth.
So, I doubt we really disagree on this.
w
vwvParticipantHe went from the 280’s to 308 just since hes
been with the Rams?I dunno. That seems like a lot of weight
to gain so fast.w
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