Well but the MSN always thot Kissinger was sexy. You left that out.
Try and be more balanced in the future.

w
v

zn wrote:

wv wrote:

And i wonder how much the CIA interfered in RUSSIAN politics
over the last few decades? Where’s the stories on that?

Should either one happen? Remember, some of us can’t be tarred with the “yeah well the USA does it too” brush. Some of us have been complaining about THAT all along, too.

And, of course, how exactly would the USA intervene in a Russian “fair election”? Who is the Russian Barry Sanders? Maybe the USA backed HIM.

Though one thing has happened. We’ve gone from the “there was no Russian election intervention” story to “well okay but what difference does it make” (which is Trump’s reaction, after initially denying it was real.)

———–
Um…no. I have never ever said there was no russian influence. I have said what Chomsky has said: “enh”. That is way different from denying the russian hacking.

My own emphasis is on the hypocrisy of all the MSN sites howling over the russian hacking. Their howling is selective and it distracts people from all the shit this government has done to other nations.
So, my thing is, dont complain about the rooskies if you are also not going to complain about the CIA. (I know u complain about both).

Which is the more important story — what the rooskies did or how the US has interfered in countless elections all over the globe? Which story is going to get played up in the US and which story is going to get suppressed or ignored?

So which story ‘needs’ more energy devoted to it?
And which story doesnt.

For me this is similar to the class vs id-politix thing. You think class and id-pol can both be talked about, and i think class needs more emphasis. Blah blah blah.

w
v

Eternal Ramnation wrote:

zn wrote:

American intel has already made clear that among many other things the russians did, yes they hacked the dems (and the republicans too they just didn’t release that info).

They did do the hacking. That’s not all they did.

And this topic has nothing to do with who won the election. It has to do with whether it’s true there was russian involvement in the election in various ways.

And. Yes, there was.

ON TOP OF IT, this is not about dems whining. It goes way beyond that. Anyone who tries to construe it as JUST dems whining is just not engaging with the entire issue and all the info we have.

I see this discussion as Jane Democracy’s corpse is found and this discussion is focused on the small cuts and abrasions on her back.Are they from glass beer bottle glass? whiskey bottle glass ,what store was the glass bought at? Meanwhile there’s a massive hole where her heat used to be , a large and very bloody butcher knife with noticeably stumpy fingerprints on it lays at her side and a trail of bloody footprints leading to a limo headed for an inauguration.

——————-

Well, I’m in a similar camp. The “russian hacking” story seems like a minor issue to me, given what the corporotacracy (and the CIA/NSA in particular) is and has been doing to the biosphere over the last fifty years.

Others have a different view, i know.

I wonder how the powers-that-be will try and counter
all this ‘hacking’ in the future, btw?

And i wonder how much the CIA interfered in RUSSIAN politics
over the last few decades? Where’s the stories on that? 🙂

w
v

I assume the way the Repugnants will play is something like this — they will scream and yell and diss ObamaCare to their Core/Base voters. And they will talk about fighting the good fight for freedom from big-government, etc. And they will allow the Dems to derail their ‘effort’ to Repeal ObamaCare.

That way they can pretend to fight for something ‘better’ and they can blame the Democrats for blocking their efforts.

Simple.

They are not stupid.

w
v

InvaderRam wrote:

but i also agree that trump for some bizarre reason is able to tap into that anger even though he too is part of that elite class. i don’t know why people don’t see that. it baffles me

—————-
Well its not new. How many Duplicats or Replicants can you name that were NOT part of the multi-millionaire-class ? John Kerry? Clinton? Bush? Trump? Gore? ..just go down the list.

Americans have been trained that they only have two choices. The Dem-elite or the Rep-Elite. Trump was just one more in a long line. Sure he had billions instead of Hillary’s hundred million, but still…

Why do Americans vote Dem or Rep every single time? Cause they’ve been trained by the system to do that. In all the ways weve discussed for ten years.

w
v

bnw wrote:

…However that is not the case here since this has been an ongoing thing with only him. Even when I’m conversing with another mod.

————–

bnw, i know you think you are right, and zn is wrong.
So youve said it. You’ve had your say. Expressed your truth.
Now, its time to let it go.

w
v

Billy_T wrote:

<
It does seem to work. But it’s amazing they view Trump as on their side: a purported billionaire who ships all of his manufacturing overseas, goes to war with his employees and unions, constantly, and brags about stiffing small businesses…

————–
Yup. That part i agree with. It is ‘amazing’.

How did American voters become so easily mislead? Well, weve discussed the system and corporate-propaganda a gazillion times.

What’s even more amazing to ‘me’ was the popularity of Bernie. THAT one came out of left-field. I just assumed the capitalist-corporate-machine had done its work so well, that from now till the End, the voters would blindly vote for either a Neoliberal-crush-the-poor candidate, or a Rightwing-biosphere-destroyer — but then there was all that support for Bernie. How did THAT happen? And is there any hope at all it can lead to anything ?

w
v

Zooey wrote:

In any event, here is the President of the United States getting into a pissing contest with an actor. An actor. What kind of guy does that?

==============
Well, maybe a really shrewd rightwinger. Cause counter-attacking Rich Hollywood Liberals plays very well on the right. It always has, as far as i can remember.

I mean look at the people in that room with Streep — would you guess most working class voters identify with the folks in that room?

w
v

zn wrote:

Why all the outrage about this one case involving Russia? Cause Russia went after the Neoliberals?

No.

No that is not it.

Usually you’re good at listening. You have something blocking you in this case, and I can’t think of what it is. It’s causing you to not hear the other side on this. So you’re not even really responding to the real arguments.

For one thing they went after HALF of the neo-liberals. Look at Trump’s actual policies. The idea that he is free of neo-liberalism is just wrong. They are classical neo-liberal policies. It’s just that his administration will be the neoliberals who also go after social security, medicaire, planned parenthood, roe v. wade, the supreme court, the EPA, and so on. In other words, they’re the WORSE neo-liberals. But they are not NOT neo-liberals.

And if you can countenance this, you have no reason to complain about american intervention in other nation’s elections. Either that’s a principle—you don’t do that–or it’s no argument at all. You can’t suddenly countenance it because in this case you have animosity toward the target.

….

————
Well to me, you are the one thats blocked and not hearing. So again we disagree. To me, you are “quibbling”. Yes, they went after “half” the neoliberals. Fine. Thats worth an “enh” to me.

Someone asked Chomsky about the Russian issue and he basically went “enh, yeah they were probly doing stuff”

They went after half the system and supported the Trump-half of the system.

Enh.

The Russian-powers-that-be are Gangsters. The US powers-that-be are gangsters. They all spy and hack and screw the poor and weak.
I cant work up any outrage about what the Russian-gangsters did to the Dem-Gangsters. To me it’d be like focusing on how bad Al Capone treated Lucky Luciano.

w
v

I dunno.

I cant decide.

w
v

“I’m not making comparisons…but in New England there are a ton of selfless players…”

w
v

Well all i can say is the Rams need an UPGRADE at WR. As they have for a million years now. They….need…an…upgrade.

I dont care whether Britt stays or goes — they need an upgrade.

w
v