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wvParticipantI think the empirical evidence is overwhelming that Trump has set all-time records for lying. To me, it’s not even close.
That said, there are lies of commission and omission, and previous presidents have had their share and then some of the latter. Not telling the American people what was actually going on, etc. Under that standard, Obama is every bit as bad as Bush, etc.
But, the thing is, Trump is doing that as well. In fact, the we only know about the stuff he’s really done because of leaks from within his own White House, usually. Without the Press reports, we’d never find that stuff out. We’d never find out about half the environmental regs he’s cancelled, or the voter suppression commission’s makeup, or the backgrounds of his cabinet.
Boiled down, Trump is guilty of the omission kind, just like previous presidents, and he’s set records for the commission kind. No president has ever lied as often in public. He’s in his own league on that score.
link: http://www.politicususa.com/2017/07/20/winning-trump-average-4-6-false-claims-day.html
By Sarah Jones on Thu, Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:35 pm
Trump averaged 4.9 false or misleading claims a day after the first 100 days. Now, at the six month mark, Trump is averaging 4.6 false or misleading claims a day.
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Well, I dunno. To me, every President has been a non-stop lying machine. Every single day they all act like they are working for the poor, and America is all about justice and apple pie, and America doesnt overthrow democracies, etc etc etc etc.
In a Corporotacracy its almost ALL lies. Rife with lies. A house of lies. The system is BASED on lies. Blah blah blah. Just my opinion.
So, I dunno if Trump tells ‘more’ lies than any of the others. To me, his lies are just more clownish and brash. I get the impression in some ways his base knows hes lying and they LIKE it, cause they interpret it as ‘trash talk’ (like in Sports) and they interpret it as tweaking the elite media, etc.
As far as SPECIFIC lies — yes, he’s the first Prez to deny climate change. And that of course is a HUGE lie. But its also just one lie. Numerically-speaking 🙂
w
vwvParticipantI dunno if Trump tells more lies than Obama/Bush/Clinton/Reagan etc. I’m not sure. Trump’s lies just seem more pompous, clownish and brasher to me, for sure.
But the topic reminds me of that famous article where the Bush aid talked about the non-reality-community of the US Empire :
“…About Karl Rove:
The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. “That’s not the way the world really works anymore.” He continued “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”Suskind, Ron (2004-10-17). Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush. The New York Times Magazine.
About Karl Rove
link:https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Karl_RoveAugust 4, 2017 at 6:07 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71873wvParticipantAnother part of my reaction to all of this:
I don’t really “blame” Russia for wanting to manipulate elections around the world. It actually makes a lot of sense, in a Game of Thrones sort of way. And it’s what all the great powers have done, in one form or another, using the tech of the day, ever since we first had those elections . . . and before that, palace intrigue and so on.
We do it. They do it. All the powers do it.
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Ok if Trump is Cercei….who is/was Hillary? And who is Putin? And who is Bernie :>)
w
v;>)
I’d like to see everyone weigh on on this.
I don’t know. Bernie as Davos Seaworth? Putin as Euron? Hillary as a much older, much more bitter Sansa?
I don’t know if there’s a Danaerys or a Jon Snow on the horizon. But we definitely could use a Tyrion, or two, or three. And, well, Missandei. Perhaps Naomi Klein?
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Ok now I’m bringing HEAT — Hillary is SANSA? No way, dude. Sansa is…is…good…and…nice….and…good.
Hillary is Cersei. Trump is…the Night King? The Night Clown?
🙂
w
vAugust 4, 2017 at 5:45 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71867wvParticipantAnother part of my reaction to all of this:
I don’t really “blame” Russia for wanting to manipulate elections around the world. It actually makes a lot of sense, in a Game of Thrones sort of way. And it’s what all the great powers have done, in one form or another, using the tech of the day, ever since we first had those elections . . . and before that, palace intrigue and so on.
We do it. They do it. All the powers do it.
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Ok if Trump is Cercei….who is/was Hillary? And who is Putin? And who is Bernie 🙂
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by
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wvParticipantWhat’s your personal take on him, WV?
This part of Trump’s speech struck me as especially moronic:
“Most people know there were no Russians in our campaign; there never were,”
It’s as if he thinks most adults don’t get that people can cut deals across national borders. Ya know, people from different countries and all. Like, um, you don’t have to have actual Russians in your campaign to collude with them. And, of course, it helps that so many live in Trump Tower in the first place.
WV, I seriously can’t wait until all of this is over, if I survive it, that is . . .
Hope all is well —
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Well, see I just think Trump has been evil-ly-brilliant since his loss on Obamacare. He’s switched channels and gone straight to what his base loves — immigration and hatred of the elite-media.
I think his remarks about russia are dead perfect for his base. They love it.
The next election will probably be another close one, i guess, BT. I dunno. Unless Bernie somehow gets the nomination. And the Dems are in bloodbath mode against Bern.
w
vAugust 4, 2017 at 5:03 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71853wvParticipantI still don’t get all the resistance to the fact that Russia hacked the election. That ship has sailed. They did it. The entire intel community here believes they did it, and they never agree about anything. The GOP and Dems agree that Russia did it, and they, too, never agree about anything. Europe believes they did it here and in Europe. European intel has long said they’ve been hacking elections across the globe.
Do we as well? Of course. America has been seriously interfering in elections around the globe at least since WWII. But it’s a strange and misguided step to go from “We do it too” to “They couldn’t have done it because, the Dems!” It makes zero sense to think that America and European governments would all conspire to present this united front, when it basically just amounts to what everyone has always known: The great powers have always played this game.
And those of us with an Internet background have known how good the Russians are at this stuff for a long, long time. It’s accepted knowledge among IT professionals that the vast majority of cyber-attacks come from Russia and its former satellites.
Again, I just don’t get the resistance to the obvious here.
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Well for starters Sy Hersh didnt say Russia didnt hack ‘anything’. He was specifically addressing the DNC-wikileaks instance. Thats all he addressed.
I personally dont know of anyone who thinks Russia didnt do some serious influencing/interfering/hacking/SOMETHING. We will never know exactly what they did and how much it affected the vote. All we will ever know is what the ‘intell community’ SAYS Russia did.And secondly, i wouldnt trust ‘anything‘ the ‘whole western Intell community’ said about ‘anything’. They are professional liars, BT. You know that. I mean how would YOU describe the CIA?
w
vThe thing is wv, for all of these intelligence agencies that compete with one another and in many cases hate one another to be espousing the same lie would require a huge conspiracy. Don’t you think that because all these disparate intelligence agencies are saying the same things it means there’s probably something to it?
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WEll first off just let me reiterate, there is no ‘heat’ coming from me on this. Zero heat. I’m just yacking to my friends here.
As far as the all these ‘intell’ agencies saying the same thing — I think its the WESTERN intell agancies joining the usual intell CHOIR. Are the EASTERN intell agencies saying the same thing?
It does not surprise me in the least that NATO intell agencies are parroting one another. Its a coalition of the Corporotacracy. And i wouldnt believe a damn thing any of them said.
And yes, sometimes they probably disagree on some things. That proves nothing. Sometimes they go along with each other. Bottom line for me is — they are professional-lying-organizations. They lie and lie and lie and lie. False Flag operations galore. Pysops operations galore. Misinformation, disinformation, Propaganda, Assassination, Coups, Drugs, Torture….shall i go on? You already know all this.
Why believe ‘them’ ? Why not at least be agnostic?
w
vAugust 4, 2017 at 4:55 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71849wvParticipantBut the CIA is only one part of that, WV, and, again, the various intel organizations typically fight each other on issue after issue. They virtually never agree. But on this they do.
And that trust thing cuts many ways. It’s logical to be highly skeptical of any government’s intel community. But that includes Russia’s, too. Or any government’s “official story.” But that includes Russia’s too. So what are we left with, when it’s the competing stories of institutions we can’t really trust? Media. Corporations, etc. etc.
Common sense and logic. And it’s not logical, IMO, to assume that the DNC put out a hit on a staffer, even if we do say he leaked the info, and there’s no proof whatsoever that he did. Common sense and logic also tell us that, given Russia’s superiority in this realm — we’re superior in military and economic might; they’re superior in cyberland — Russia would focus on what they’re really, really good at . . . and would do what they did in Europe:
Push the far right parties and candidates to the degree possible. In America, that’s Trump/Bannon/Breitbart/Alt-right, etc. In France it was Le Pen. In the Netherlands, Wilders. And so on.
IMO, we’re waaay past all of this. It’s a done deal. It happened. We need to do whatever we can to prevent it from happening again, and to hold our own government accountable for its interference in elections overseas too.
Fuck both parties and both empires, in short. Or, as you’ve called them, gangster governments.
I just keep coming back to my sense of raw puzzlement over these discussions by some public figures/journalists. We just don’t have to choose sides here, but it seems some of these people think we do.
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But the CIA also Cooperates with many ‘Intell agencies’ (and i hate that term ‘Intelligence’ — i’d rather just call them professional torture-lie-and-murder-agencies).
I think the corporotacracy/deep-state/whatever expands outside one nation. I think oftentimes many ‘intell’ agencies cooperate in the game of ‘protect and expand global corporate-capitalism.
As far as ‘trusting russian Intell’ yes, we should be wary of that. But I’m listening to Sy Hersh — is HE a member of Russian Intell? He’s a maverick. He’s been right about a LOT of things in the past. Has he suddenly gone stupid? Who knows more about ‘Intell’ than Sy Hersh?
At any rate, i dont know who ‘put out a hit’ on the guy. I have no idea. I ‘am’ interested in whether he gave the info to Wiki.
w
vAugust 4, 2017 at 4:26 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71845wvParticipantI still don’t get all the resistance to the fact that Russia hacked the election. That ship has sailed. They did it. The entire intel community here believes they did it, and they never agree about anything. The GOP and Dems agree that Russia did it, and they, too, never agree about anything. Europe believes they did it here and in Europe. European intel has long said they’ve been hacking elections across the globe.
Do we as well? Of course. America has been seriously interfering in elections around the globe at least since WWII. But it’s a strange and misguided step to go from “We do it too” to “They couldn’t have done it because, the Dems!” It makes zero sense to think that America and European governments would all conspire to present this united front, when it basically just amounts to what everyone has always known: The great powers have always played this game.
And those of us with an Internet background have known how good the Russians are at this stuff for a long, long time. It’s accepted knowledge among IT professionals that the vast majority of cyber-attacks come from Russia and its former satellites.
Again, I just don’t get the resistance to the obvious here.
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Well for starters Sy Hersh didnt say Russia didnt hack ‘anything’. He was specifically addressing the DNC-wikileaks instance. Thats all he addressed.
I personally dont know of anyone who thinks Russia didnt do some serious influencing/interfering/hacking/SOMETHING. We will never know exactly what they did and how much it affected the vote. All we will ever know is what the ‘intell community’ SAYS Russia did.And secondly, i wouldnt trust ‘anything‘ the ‘whole western Intell community’ said about ‘anything’. They are professional liars, BT. You know that. I mean how would YOU describe the CIA?
w
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by wv.
wvParticipantI hate contract stuff.
I wont tolerate it.
w
vAugust 4, 2017 at 2:30 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71838wvParticipantJust the amount of info on the other side.
He has lost his touch the last couple of times out. He always thinks he’s right. And, he isn’t. He wasn’t always right back when I used to admire him either.
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Ok, fair enough. My own view is suggested by Hersh at about 23 minute mark of the last vid: “Its a bankrupt system”
w
vAugust 4, 2017 at 1:18 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71836wvParticipantPS — that last Hersh Vid. Part 2 its called. The one on Syria. Go to about the 13 minute mark, and listen for five mins or so. Its about what the CIA did with Syria’s old chemical-gas stuff. I dont think anyone but Hersh has talked about this. It was dumped into the ocean off the coast of Italy. Just dumped. In the water.
I know, what a shock that the CIA/Pentagon/Corporotacracy would do something like that.
w
vAugust 4, 2017 at 1:09 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71835wvParticipantPart two of the Sy Hersh vid. This one is on Syria.
So we have long excursions by Hersh on The DNC-Wiki-leaker, The real story of the killing of Bin Ladin, and the Assad-Syria gas story.
Correct me if I’m wrong, zn, but i believe you think Hersh is totally wrong on the Syria story and the Wiki-leak story, but probly right on the Bin Ladin story. Yes? No?
I think Hersh is right on all three stories, but I also know that its not like this stuff is math, where 2 plus 2 equals 4 and everything is proven and obvious.
I mainly posted all this cause i wanted Mack’s take on it. If he has a view on any of this.
w
v
August 4, 2017 at 12:25 pm in reply to: Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki #71834wvParticipantYeah, i have the opposite view, but we know we disagree on this one.
Why do you think he’s wrong? He seems awfully sure that he’s right.
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wvParticipantOMG. That stuff is funny.
And this:
———–
Do Not Disturbtiny grass is dreaming.
———THAT is about as beautiful a poem as I’ve ever read. Really.
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vwvParticipantWhat is each character’s main Flaw?
J.Snow ?
Mother of Dragons?
Little Finger?
Tyrion?
Cersei?
Jamie?
Arya?
Sansa?
Three Eyed Raven?
Hound?w
vwvParticipantPreachin to the Choir, BT.
w
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—
….All I have is a voice
To undo the folded lie,
The romantic lie in the brain
Of the sensual man-in-the-street
And the lie of Authority
Whose buildings grope the sky:
There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die.Defenseless under the night
Our world in stupor lies;
Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages:
May I, composed like them
Of Eros and of dust,
Beleaguered by the same
Negation and despair,
Show an affirming flame.”
― W.H. Auden, Another TimewvParticipantMy take on GOT is this. When it doesn;t work, it;s a lot of contrivance where you have to overlook things. So do I not believe all the following: Arya gained access to the Frey castle, killed the 2 sons, and had the whole kitchen to herself to cut them up and then cook them into pies (can Arya even cook?) All so we get the scene of old Frey eating the cannibal pie? That asks you to forgive too much.
But more often than not, the set pieces remain top notch. And what’s strong about the show continues to work.
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Well if u hate Game of Thrones so much, why dont you go to North Korea
and watch it.w
vwvParticipantThe article mentions “dark ecology” which i’d never heard of.
Having trouble figuring out what it means:
“…Dark ecology entails practicing intimacy in as many ways as possible. It amounts to compassion, really, consonant with Tibetan Buddhism practiced by Morton. Every manifestation of compassion arises from an orientation that has been open to suffering. Robert Thurman says suffering alerts us to the fact that we are not being aware of what we really are. For at least a couple of thousand years we’ve tried applying a variety of Anthropocentric therapies to this lack of awareness, intended to restore us to the larger whole we’ve fallen from and redeem our suffering. But that’s not what we need at the onset of the Anthropocene. We’re in a time that’s pretty clearly defined by our futility at getting on top or to the bottom of wicked problems of our own making (cue global warming, species extinction, fresh water depletion, and even the end of sand!). What if there isn’t a big Nature to get back to, an Environment to clean up, an Earth to become one with? Would it be so bad for these big old Beings to come to an end? What if we follow Morton and experiment with Anthropocenic anti-therapies which yield results consistent with increasing intimate coexistence with ourselves and other objects?….” see link
link:https://environmentalcritique.wordpress.com/2017/06/20/dark-ecology-whats-a-human-to-do/wvParticipantThe show’s producers addressed some of the contrivances.
The Lannister army doesn’t just “show up” in Highgarden. They simply show the snippet of the formed army approaching the castle and then the aftermath of taking it. They felt and I agree that simply watching them go through the expensive motions of taking out patrols and sacking the castle wasn’t germane to the story. The point was that the Lannisters gave up Casterly Rock for the gold in Highgarden to pay the Iron Bank. It was pure strategery.
As for the fleet being found at night, it’s not that. It’s possible that they found them during the day or days off, figured out where they were going and sailed an intercept course based on known navigation, staying over the horizon to prevent being seen. At that point, it’s simple seamanship of which the Iron Fleet is unrivaled.
Some of the really important drama was muted because unlike King Joffrey’s demise and the Red Wedding, this wasn’t a surprise. The taking of Highgarden was, but we knew Diane Ladd was going to die and we already knew because she told her daughter that she poisoned Joffrey. So we can’t share in Jaime’s shock and horror because that was old news to us.
As for ZN’s question, yes, Aunt/Nephew is definitely incestuous and would be seen as such by medieval peoples like those in Westeros.
I honestly don’t know if they go to that well again.
As for it being rushed, I think part of it is that the author of the original material isn’t young and isn’t in the best of health and they don’t want to not have him as a resource.
We’ve already seen as the show strays further from the source that it doesn’t have the same punch. Without GRR Martin, I fear the show would devolve into a level of spectacle and petty intrigues that would bore us all to death.
Btw, I’m still getting over episode one. Sam Tarly in his “servitude” was gut-wrenchingly awful. I still shudder at the thought, although kudos for the producers not shying away from the cringe-worthy montage. It added a real weight to episode three.
I still hate this. I’m terribly impatient when it comes to waiting for content which is why I waited so long to start (I watched as season 6 was about to start). This waiting a week between episodes as opposed to just the 9 second logo on HBOGO is infuriating…
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There’s not enough Dragon time and dragon development for my taste.
I’d have devoted at least an entire show to dragon development. Like how exactly do they commune/communicate with the Mother of Dragons? How smart are they? What do they think about? What do they want?
I wanna know.
One of my favorite moments of the whole damn series? The Hodor climax. I didnt see that coming “hold the door, hold the door…” Maybe I’m slow, but i didnt see that coming. Made me smile for three days.
w
vwvParticipant
wvParticipantI think it’s both, WV.
I think the narrow focus of American foreign policy is that we have to be bestest buddies or we kill the guy in charge and find one who’ll be our bestest, enabling, codependent buddy.
I mean one can’t overthrow as many democratically elected governments as ours has and truly believe in democracy.
And, yes, the Israeli influence is very hard to overstate.
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Well the reason i dont like the “its because we are addicted to regime change” is because that does not tell joe and jane citizen WHY the CIA/deep-state wants regime change. They want pro-corporate partners/puppets. They dont want any successful examples of left-leaning-systems out there. Tulsi (god bless her) doesnt really get into the WHY of regime-change. Just saying “its an addiction” doesnt give the peepulz any info.
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vwvParticipantWhen the Oceans rise, and the White-Walkers roll over Minnesota,
everyone will want a piece of almost-heaven.wvParticipantThanks all. It is a great time to be back.
McVay is gonna be awesome.
Sansa is emerging, but Arya hasn’t seen her yet and she’s not going to like the changes I don’t think.
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I personally didnt like drafting Sansa in the second. I thought that was a reach.
They could have taken the Hound at that point. Or traded down for a few unsullied.
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vwvParticipantPeople just shouldnt get sick.
w
vwvParticipantAhhh. One of my alltime favorite posters. Of all time.
I have missed you, dude.
Little Finger — what is he up to? Sansa keeps slapping down all his man-splaining lately. He doesnt seem to have much of a role in the power-game anymore.
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vwvParticipant“..Take single payer health insurance, where the government serves the role typically held by insurance companies, and where progressive taxes help alleviate the burden of paying for care faced by the poor. I support this policy wholeheartedly. But it is not a socialist alternative to health care. “The government pays money for what the people need” is not socialist in general, but rather simply welfare liberalism, as it preserves the role of currency exchange and profit in the first place. A real socialist alternative would be to socialize the health care industry entirely, and have doctors and hospitals provide services based on human need rather than the dictates of the profit model. I don’t think socialized health care is plausible in the short term, and I will take a single-payer system over our current one in a heartbeat. But we should not confuse a single-payer system for a true socialist alternative, just as we should not confuse government-funded college education for a socialized system where education is provided based on need and not on a market mechanism…”
wvParticipantI think the ‘thing’ or ‘dynamic’ or ‘deep-state’ or ‘corporotacracy’ or ‘kaleidoscope of corporate-capitalist forces’ or whatever-the-hell you wanna call it, has been snowballing the last five years or so. Citizens United, coupled with the consolidation of the corporate media, plus god-knows-what-else have caused a snowballing of power. Imho. Granted its all contested ground, and there are plenty of resistance forces (Bernie, Jill, activists, etc). But the way i see it — something very bad is snowballing.
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“…..AM: Sure. I think the national security state is the instrument the United States used to build and exercise its global hegemony. Looking at the comparative history of empires in the modern age going back 500 years, the thing that distinguishes the U.S. empire from almost any other, is the reliance upon covert methods and it’s a result of a historical moment.The U.S. empire coincided with the decolonization, the dissolution of half a dozen European empires that produced 100 new nations, more than half the independent nations on the planet today. And so U.S. hegemony was being exercised, not over colonies, whose sovereignty was compromised, in fact had been transferred to the imperial power, but over independent nation states, who had sovereignty. So you had an empire under conditions that denied empire. So how do you exercise hegemony in a non-hegemonic world? You have to do it covertly.
And in 1947, President Harry Truman, right after World War II, and Congress passed the National Security Act that laid down the bureaucratic apparatus for the U.S. national security state. That National Security Act created the Defense Department, the U.S. Air Force, the CIA, and the National Security Council — the key instruments of the U.S. exercise of global power. And then when the next administration came in, under President Dwight Eisenhower, what he did is he realized that there were nations that were becoming independent across the world and that he had to be intervening in these independent nations and so the only way he could do it was through plausible deniability, you had to intervene in a way that could not be seen. You had to do it covertly. And so Eisenhower turned to the CIA, created by Harry Truman, and he transformed it from an organization that originally tried to penetrate the Iron Curtain, to send agents and operatives inside the Iron Curtain. It was a complete disaster. The operatives were captured, they were used to uncover the networks of opposition inside the Soviet Union, it was absolutely counterproductive. Eisenhower turned the CIA away from that misbegotten mission of penetrating the Iron Curtain and instead assigned them the mission of penetrating and controlling the three-quarters of the globe that was on the U.S. side of the Iron Curtain, the free world.
And Eisenhower relied upon the CIA, and then the National Security Agency, to monitor signals. And we began to exercise our global hegemony, covertly, through the CIA and allied intelligence agencies. And that’s been a distinctive aspect of U.S. hegemony since the dawn of American global power in 1945. And that continues today, ever deepening, layer upon layer, through those processes you described. The drones, the surveillance, the cyberwarfare — all of that is covert….”
wvParticipantAw fudge… He had so much promise
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I predicted he’d last three months. So i was waaay off.
I knew he wasnt gonna last cause he had too ‘big’ a personality. He sounded like a mini-trump.
There can BE only One.w
vwvParticipantIve never watched Friday Night Lights. Maybe I’ll give it a try.
w
vwvParticipantI think the season does seem ‘rushed’ and i assumed it would because some idiot decided to shorten the number of episodes. Its gonna hurt the show. Well it already has, I’d say. Still a good show, but it woulda been better if they had time to develop things more.
I am thrilled that the Dorn women are gone because they reminded me of villains from the old Batman tv series. They were awful.
I still think all the actors/actresses are great, cept the mother of dragons. I’ve never been able to take her seriously. She’s got nuthin, imho. People argue with me about her all the time around here, though. Maybe I’m the onliest one who thinks that.
I guess my three favorite mega-series have been,
The Wire,
GOT,
BattleStar G.Some good acting, character development in them series.
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by
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