who should start? will they trade for someone? who? qb discussion

Recent Forum Topics Forums The Rams Huddle who should start? will they trade for someone? who? qb discussion

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  • #4849
    zn
    Moderator

    Lots of options.

    My bet is they keep their 3 and just go for it.

    After the season is a different story.

    #4830
    RamBill
    Participant


    Rams have some interest in Mark Sanchez

    By Gregg Rosenthal
    Around The League Editor
    Published: Aug. 24, 2014 at 05:06 p.m.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000383155/article/rams-have-some-interest-in-mark-sanchez?campaign=Twitter_atl

    With Sam Bradford out for the season with another torn ACL, the natural question for the St. Louis Rams: Who will take his spot?

    Shaun Hill is a quality backup for Bradford, and figures to be the Rams’ starter early in the regular season. He’s certainly an upgrade from last year’s backup Kellen Clemens, and he’s been in the Rams system since March. Then again, Hill is 34 years old and hasn’t started an NFL game since 2010. He earned his reputation as a quality backup a long time ago, and his ability to excel over 16 games is a mystery.

    One logical candidate for a trade is Philadelphia Eagles backup Mark Sanchez, whom offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer worked with in New York. NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reports that the Rams have some interest in Sanchez, per a source informed of the situation. But the Eagles have been more than pleased with Sanchez this year and would have to be blown away to trade him.

    The Rams are in a terrible spot. There is no magical quarterback solution out there that will save their season. (That’s including Christian Ponder and anyone else you can come up with.) Is the “upgrade” from Shaun Hill to Mark Sanchez really worth giving up a halfway decent future draft pick? Is the difference between five and seven wins that big a deal in a brutal division?

    Rams fans don’t want to hear it, but the team is likely better off bottoming out and then finally drafting their next quarterback of the future near the top of the 2015 draft.

    #4834
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    I nominate Austin Davis as the starter Why not? He’s been with Schotty since 2012. This is essentially his 3rd season with this offense. He’s young, mobile and he has a good arm. He also broke all of Brett Farve’s records in college.

    I think Davis is the guy. Given him most of the snaps in the last game. It makes sense. If he can’t do it then you always have Hill to fall back on.

    Grits

    #4835
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    The answer is Austin Davis.

    Grits

    #4837
    PA Ram
    Participant

    No Sanchez.

    Not a fan. Just because he knows “the system” doesn’t mean he’s worth giving up picks for this year.

    I’d rather go down in flames with Hill and Davis(or another vet) than give up any picks for Sanchez.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #4838
    PA Ram
    Participant

    I don’t know, GRITS. I’d have to see it in a regular season game to believe he’s capable of being the starter.

    For now, I don’t mind giving him a shot at back-up and if Hill gets hurt, we’ll see. But I’ll stick with Hill and his experience for now.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #4844
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    There is no upside to playing Hill. Davis is young. You can grow with Davis. Nobody is picking the Rams for the Super Bowl anyways so why not go with a kid who may have a future?

    Grits

    #4845
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    Build with Davis.

    Grits

    #4848
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    If I was to make a deal with anyone for a QB it may be the Browns for Brian Hoyer. They really want Manziel to play and they have Grossman to back up Manziel. I think Hoyer could be had for a reasonable price and he’s good.

    Grits

    #4857
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Three things.

    1) Shaun Hill is the guy. Austin Davis isn’t a starting QB and never will be. If that’s a funny post, I apologize.

    2) Not so fast on Sanchez. That was my first take on him, also. Then I watched him this year as an Eagle and he looks TOTALLY different. MUCH improved form, MUCH better delivery and pocket awareness. This Sanchez is NOT the same, lost, confused guy from the Jets.

    3) This is our year. Having a guy who “knows the system” is really damn important and Austin Davis isn’t enough. If Shaun Hill goes down… and in this division that’s a very real possibility, then we need another guy who can keep the whole playbook open. The way Sanchez is playing NOW, that’s possible. And yes, I can’t believe I’m saying that. It took my friend confronting me and challenging me to watch this year’s videos for me to admit that I was wrong about him…NOW.

    I’m not saying we’ll get Sanchez, but to dismiss him out of hand, imho, is a mistake. He’s not Capt. Buttfumble anymore. Not by the way he’s looked this year so far, anyway…

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #4867
    Hram
    Participant

    Mack, would you give a 4th next year for Sanchez or Hoyer to back up Hill and compete next year? Do you think either team would take that?

    I’d do it.

    I believe Austin Davis is probably not starter material and right now don’t expect him to be able to win many games with the Rams. I haven’t seen consistency from him.

    I think Hill can start and win (maybe 10 games), but only on a team with a very good defense, special teams, running game and a couple big receivers who will bail him out. We might have that this year, but everything would have to come together.

    Sanchez might be able to help them win some games.

    #4869
    Agamemnon
    Moderator

    I go with Hill. I think he is the best option. Didn’t Martz say he was the best QB he ever coached?

    Agamemnon

    #4873
    Hram
    Participant

    What would it take to pry Cousins from the Skins? 🙂

    #4874
    zn
    Moderator

    I wouldn’t trade for anyone except as depth. It’s someone you don;t know, haven’t scouted, have to re-train from scratch…and it wastes picks.

    Better to compete with what you have IMO and save the picks for young players you believe in from the get-go and have time to coach up.

    #4877
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    A gun and naked pictures of Snyder in a compromising position underneath a male transsexual both wearing parts of a Nazi uniform. Even then, I’m not sure they’d trade him.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #4879
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Mack, would you give a 4th next year for Sanchez or Hoyer to back up Hill and compete next year? Do you think either team would take that?

    I’d do it.

    I believe Austin Davis is probably not starter material and right now don’t expect him to be able to win many games with the Rams. I haven’t seen consistency from him.

    I think Hill can start and win (maybe 10 games), but only on a team with a very good defense, special teams, running game and a couple big receivers who will bail him out. We might have that this year, but everything would have to come together.

    Sanchez might be able to help them win some games.

    Yes, I totally would do that. Sanchez wasn’t worth a ham sandwich prior to this off-season and now he’s a solid backup again who’s playing well enough to potentially compete for a starting job. His play in Philly has been…well, eye opening.

    What may need to happen, however, is that the Rams may need to trade a DL to make that happen because of cap considerations. I don’t know what Sanchez’s cap number is, but we’re up against it and the Eagles are pretty sad on D. If Sanchez’s number is low, I could see them trading someone like Sims and a lower pick like a 5th which would REALLY help the Eagles while giving the Rams the depth they desperately need. But the cap is an issue as well.

    Bottom line is that we may not be able to do anything because of the cap.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #4881
    PA Ram
    Participant

    If Fisher traded for a Cousins now he’d basically be telling Sam, “you’re done”–right after this difficult injury and long recovery ahead of him. I can’t see that happening. I’m sure Sam has many good friends on this team and I don’t know they would particularly like it. I know Fisher said that Shaun Hill is the guy and I believe it. Now–I CAN see the potential of them trading for another back-up type–a non-threatening guy. But if Davis continues to perform I believe they’ll just go with him as #3.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #4882
    zn
    Moderator

    If Fisher traded for a Cousins now he’d basically be telling Sam, “you’re done”–right after this difficult injury and long recovery ahead of him. I can’t see that happening. I’m sure Sam has many good friends on this team and I don’t know they would particularly like it. I know Fisher said that Shaun Hill is the guy and I believe it. Now–I CAN see the potential of them trading for another back-up type–a non-threatening guy. But if Davis continues to perform I believe they’ll just go with him as #3.

    Fisher: “We move forward as a football team. Shaun is our guy.”

    Fisher on trade or free agent speculation: “That’s not true. It doesn’t mean to say that we won’t, but we haven’t done it to this point.”

    #4883
    rfl
    Participant

    Here’s what Nick Wagoner says at ESPN (link). It bears thinking about:

    Taking it a step further, it was also fair to wonder whether the Rams should have more strongly considered a quarterback at the top of the draft because they might never draft in such lofty territory again. In Fisher’s 18 full seasons as a head coach, his teams have had seven or more wins 15 times. He’s had one season each with four, five and six wins.

    In other words, Fisher’s teams almost always find a way to a baseline of mediocrity that doesn’t yield many opportunities to draft franchise quarterbacks. The average first-round draft position of Fisher’s teams, not including picks gained in trade, is 17.9.

    On the two occasions his Tennessee teams picked in the top three, they drafted a quarterback both times, one being the home run that was Steve McNair, the other being the whiff that was Vince Young.

    Such is life when betting your franchise’s future on a young quarterback. It’s a bet the Rams weren’t prepared to make again while waiting to see if the one they made on Bradford in 2010 would pay off.

    As for me, I never wanted the Rams to draft a QB. I believed in Sam. I refused to believe he was injury prone.

    But, now that Sam is basically ruined goods, we do have to face facts. The franchise gambled on Sam and we have now lost the bet.

    And it’s hard to find good QBs. Really hard.

    Furthermore, NW is right–Fish generally hangs up enough wins to keep his team out of the top slots in which quality QBs generally go.

    Wouldn’t it be ironic if we ended up doing what WASH did … trading draft picks for a top QB pick?

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #4886
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    i say go with what you have and reevaluate in the offseason. hill should be fine. i thought he looked alright in the few times i’ve seen him. draft a quarterback next year.

    #4887
    zn
    Moderator

    Here’s what Nick Wagoner says at ESPN (link). It bears thinking about:

    Taking it a step further, it was also fair to wonder whether the Rams should have more strongly considered a quarterback at the top of the draft because they might never draft in such lofty territory again. In Fisher’s 18 full seasons as a head coach, his teams have had seven or more wins 15 times. He’s had one season each with four, five and six wins.

    In other words, Fisher’s teams almost always find a way to a baseline of mediocrity that doesn’t yield many opportunities to draft franchise quarterbacks. The average first-round draft position of Fisher’s teams, not including picks gained in trade, is 17.9.

    On the two occasions his Tennessee teams picked in the top three, they drafted a quarterback both times, one being the home run that was Steve McNair, the other being the whiff that was Vince Young.

    Such is life when betting your franchise’s future on a young quarterback. It’s a bet the Rams weren’t prepared to make again while waiting to see if the one they made on Bradford in 2010 would pay off.

    As for me, I never wanted the Rams to draft a QB. I believed in Sam. I refused to believe he was injury prone.

    But, now that Sam is basically ruined goods, we do have to face facts. The franchise gambled on Sam and we have now lost the bet.

    And it’s hard to find good QBs. Really hard.

    Furthermore, NW is right–Fish generally hangs up enough wins to keep his team out of the top slots in which quality QBs generally go.

    Wouldn’t it be ironic if we ended up doing what WASH did … trading draft picks for a top QB pick?

    I dunno. I think these guys are smarter than to do some of the bad things other teams have done recently when it comes to qbs.

    Look at teams that acquired new qbs since 2011 outside the first round, and have done well:

    Denver signed Manning.
    Bengals drafted Dalton in the 2nd round. I know people can do better than Dalton…but still.
    KC signed Alex Smith.
    Arizona traded cheap for Palmer.
    Eagles drafted Foles in round 3.
    Chicago signed McNown, who played well in that scheme, and then Tampa signed him.
    Seattle drafted Wilson in the 3rd round.
    SF signed Kaepernick in the 2nd round.

    Compare all the wasted first round picks and/or guys we still know nothing about, like the 2014 first rounders.

    #4889
    rfl
    Participant

    I think the point is that there is an opportunity cost here. We passed on chances to draft QBs because of Sam. Now we have to pay the price.

    Of course, this last draft really didn’t offer anyone very tempting. I don’t think the solution woulda been there anyway.

    It just really sux. We have the right guy who can’t stay healthy.

    We still seem to be snake bit.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #4891
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    I feel it is time to let Bradford walk, and draft a QB next year. Three should be 1st rounders, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston, and Brent Hundley. I feel potentially, the 2015 QB class is much better than the 2014.

    #4908
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Let it go.

    Winston is a knucklehead. I live in Florida and even as he was winning the Heisman, the stories of him stealing things and committing assaults wouldn’t stop.

    Marcus Mariota won’t get out of the top 3. Getting him will require an RGIII type trade. No dice.

    Brent Hundley… Need to do more homework on him.

    But even if we don’t get Sanchez NOW, he’s on a one year deal. If he plays and continues to play well, the Eagles won’t be able to afford him. If he doesn’t the Rams won’t want him. But if he’s essentially rehabbed in Philly, then HE’S the perfect guy to go and get as a starter in this system. I kinda get dizzy typing that because I’m just so used to thinking of Mark Sanchez as Mark “buttfumble” Sanchez and not this new guy…

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #4916
    sdram
    Participant

    Not a fan of Mark Sanchez but I think he’d be okay as Hill’s backup for this season. He is a solid citizen. But would philly even consider trading him for a pick and then it depends on what the cost is – a fourth round pick isn’t that much to pay for a quality backup. the question with Sanchez is – is he a quality backup?

    #4917
    zn
    Moderator

    Not a fan of Mark Sanchez but I think he’d be okay as Hill’s backup for this season. He is a solid citizen. But would philly even consider trading him for a pick and then it depends on what the cost is – a fourth round pick isn’t that much to pay for a quality backup. the question with Sanchez is – is he a quality backup?

    And, Fisher has said, it is not true that they’ve looked at anyone. So Wagoner has his facts wrong. They might do it–but, they haven’t at this point.

    #4922
    rfl
    Participant

    And, Fisher has said, it is not true that they’ve looked at anyone. So Wagoner has his facts wrong. They might do it–but, they haven’t at this point.

    I am not sure Fisher’s public denial proves that Wagoner has wrong facts.

    Personally, I feel that, if the FO ISN’T pursuing viable options like Sanchez, they aren’t showing due diligence. I would really hate to believe it.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #4923
    Hram
    Participant

    Mac, Take a look a Mannion from oregon State. Decent pocket passer who helps elevate a team that is consistently in the bottom third of the recruiting wars in the PAC 12. They won’t win 10 or 11 games so he probably won’t go high.

    #4925
    zn
    Moderator

    zn wrote:
    And, Fisher has said, it is not true that they’ve looked at anyone. So Wagoner has his facts wrong. They might do it–but, they haven’t at this point.

    I am not sure Fisher’s public denial proves that Wagoner has wrong facts.

    Personally, I feel that, if the FO ISN’T pursuing viable options like Sanchez, they aren’t showing due diligence. I would really hate to believe it.

    Well, honestly, I believe Fisher. I honestly think that each time we have seen Fisher shoot down a rumor in the past, it has been credible, and backed up by subsequent events.

    But you;re right that I put it categorically as if all the fact were in front of me when I should have just said Fisher says X, and I believe Fisher.

    .

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by zn.
    #4928
    21Dog
    Participant

    Davis was pretty good a couple of years ago in the preseason and has stunk it up ever since, last night being the exception.

    So was this a fluke or did the light go on for him?

    Sadly I think it’s the former.

    I’d keep as the primary backup for now. He hasn’t done nearly enough to start over Hill.

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