Torry Holt: Tavon Austin’s Biggest Impact Will be on Special Teams

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  • #3869
    RamBill
    Participant


    Holt: Tavon Austin’s Biggest Impact Will be on Special Teams

    By Brendan Marks

    http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/STLRams/tabid/137/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/14145/Holt-Tavon-Austins-Biggest-Impact-Will-be-on-Special-Teams.aspx

    When the St. Louis Rams traded up to select Tavon Austin in the first round of the 2013 NFL Draft, many thought the franchise had finally gotten an elite playmaking receiver that’s long alluded them.

    And while Austin supplied his fair share of highlights in his rookie campaign – including this special return TD against the Colts in Week 10 – he still has yet to consistently provide the spark the offense needs.

    And according to former Rams receiver Torry Holt, he hasn’t had a great training camp thus far.

    “Tavon Austin has been very quiet this camp, and I thought he was quiet the other night,” Holt said on The Edmonds and McKernan Show on Tuesday. “And for a guy who was picked 8th overall, it’s bothering me he’s been so quiet up to this point.”

    Holt acknowledges Austin’s natural ability, but doesn’t think his biggest contributions this year will be at the receiver position.

    “What it looks like, what is sound like, he’ll make his biggest impact on special teams,” Holt said. I know fans don’t necessarily wanna hear that, I really don’t wanna hear that, particularly with a guy being picked 8th overall at the receiver position.”
    With the Rams now completely back to a run-first team following their spread offense experiment early last season, and the fact some think he’s the fourth best receiver on the team right now insert Thomas link, it begs the question on if Austin is a good fit in this offense.

    “That’s a legitimate question,” Holt said. “They want to run it more than they passed it, so that means there will be less opportunities for (the receivers). Where can (Austin) help the ball club if he’s not getting a lot of opportunities on the offense?”

    Holt talked much more about the current state of the Rams with Edmonds and McKernan. You can listen to their whole conversation here.

    #3871
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    well that’s disturbing. cuz i don’t think britt or quick are the answer. not as starting wrs. that leaves bailey who i like. but he’s suspended for the first four games. cook? kendricks? right now i see a bunch of complimentary receivers, but no number one type wr. is that going to work? i think it will for now with the running game looking as strong as it does. but i think ultimately bailey or austin have to step up. or both. i don’t see anyone else on the roster who is capable.

    #3880
    NERam
    Participant

    Geez, hate to think of him as just a special teams gimmick. I was hoping for more Welker-like contributions than Devin Hester v2.

    #3882
    zn
    Moderator

    “They want to run it more than they passed it, so that means there will be less opportunities for (the receivers). Where can (Austin) help the ball club if he’s not getting a lot of opportunities on the offense?”

    I’m not sure that’s necessarily true. I think they will pass it plenty. I have less of a handle on this part of it but I also think they will rotate WRs, so it’s not certain he will be crowded out in a numbers game. I do think they fully intend to set up a fair number of big strikes, and Austin can do that, as we know. I don’t think this will be Seattle. In 2012, Bradford was tied for 7th in the league with Manning for the number of passing plays of 20 yards or more. I expect that to continue…in principle, a play action offense with Stacy should not be that different from a play action offense with Jackson.

    .,..

    #3886
    NERam
    Participant

    “They want to run it more than they passed it, so that means there will be less opportunities for (the receivers). Where can (Austin) help the ball club if he’s not getting a lot of opportunities on the offense?”

    I’m not sure that’s necessarily true. I think they will pass it plenty. I have less of a handle on this part of it but I also think they will rotate WRs, so it’s not certain he will be crowded out in a numbers game. I do think they fully intend to set up a fair number of big strikes, and Austin can do that, as we know. I don’t think this will be Seattle. In 2012, Bradford was tied for 7th in the league with Manning for the number of passing plays of 20 yards or more. I expect that to continue…in principle, a play action offense with Stacy should not be that different from a play action offense with Jackson.

    .,..

    Ah, a voice of reason tacking back up the pieces of falling sky.

    I like your version better. Thank you.

    #3918
    Dak
    Participant

    I respect Holt’s opinions since he’s played WR at a high level. And, I understand his concern about Austin’s production. But, Austin is not going to ever be a Torry Holt 80-catch-a-year guy. He will be a quick strike guy, though, and if he can get you 10-12 TDs in this offense, he will be a monster contributor. I also thought that in the 2-minute drill at the end of the first half, he showed that he could get open for short sideline passes that he could keep the chains moving at times. I think he can still be a “go to” guy in certain situations, just not a traditional No. 1. And, I’m sure from Holt’s perspective, Tavon was picked too high not to be that No. 1 WR.

    #3920
    wv
    Participant

    I respect Holt’s opinions since he’s played WR at a high level. And, I understand his concern about Austin’s production. But, Austin is not going to ever be a Torry Holt 80-catch-a-year guy. He will be a quick strike guy, though, and if he can get you 10-12 TDs in this offense, he will be a monster contributor. I also thought that in the 2-minute drill at the end of the first half, he showed that he could get open for short sideline passes that he could keep the chains moving at times. I think he can still be a “go to” guy in certain situations, just not a traditional No. 1. And, I’m sure from Holt’s perspective, Tavon was picked too high not to be that No. 1 WR.

    I have no idea what Torry is talking about.
    Tavon has been ‘quiet in camp’ ?
    I think Tavon will be a dangerous weapon
    that defenses have to account for on every down —
    assuming:
    1 Tavon stops dropping passes, and
    2 he can stay healthy.

    Those are open questions.

    But as we all know, he’s not a “WR”.
    He’s an “X factor” player. He’s a little
    of this and a little of that. Whatever
    you wanna name it. A TD-maker, maybe.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by wv.
    #3923
    Dak
    Participant

    Dak wrote:
    I respect Holt’s opinions since he’s played WR at a high level. And, I understand his concern about Austin’s production. But, Austin is not going to ever be a Torry Holt 80-catch-a-year guy. He will be a quick strike guy, though, and if he can get you 10-12 TDs in this offense, he will be a monster contributor. I also thought that in the 2-minute drill at the end of the first half, he showed that he could get open for short sideline passes that he could keep the chains moving at times. I think he can still be a “go to” guy in certain situations, just not a traditional No. 1. And, I’m sure from Holt’s perspective, Tavon was picked too high not to be that No. 1 WR.

    I have no idea what Torry is talking about.
    Tavon has been ‘quiet in camp’ ?
    I think Tavon will be a dangerous weapon
    that defenses have to account for on every down –
    assuming:
    1 Tavon stops dropping passes, and
    2 he can stay healthy.

    Those are open questions.

    But as we all know, he’s not a “WR”.
    He’s an “X factor” player. He’s a little
    of this and a little of that. Whatever
    you wanna name it. A TD-maker, maybe.

    w
    v

    Yeah, I’m going to judge him based on how many points he puts on the board. If he gets behind the offense, or has one man to beat, he will score … or at least set the offense up for a score. He could do this as a punt returner, as well. Just score, baby.

    #3927
    Herzog
    Participant

    Not sure what to make of Torry publically stating his opinion on a player like that. It’s not his usual style to be so specific. Doesn’t he help out in OTA’s or something?

    I wonder if he’s indirectly trying to light a fire under Tavon’s ass. Or maybe he’s just being candid.

    #3928
    zn
    Moderator

    Not sure what to make of Torry publically stating his opinion on a player like that. It’s not his usual style to be so specific. Doesn’t he help out in OTA’s or something?

    I wonder if he’s indirectly trying to light a fire under Tavon’s ass. Or maybe he’s just being candid.

    Well, near as I know, no, he is not engaging in any kind of coaching situation with the Rams; he’s not helping out in camp, or any of that. He is simply expressing an opinion as a broadcaster. IMO, where TH goes wrong is that he judges Austin solely and simply as a wideout. My own view is, it’s not accurate to judge him solely and simply as a wideout–he’s something different.

    #3932
    Herzog
    Participant

    He’s a quick strike stealth bomber. He might touch the ball 5 times but he’ll still roll out 200 all purpose yards…..on some occasions anyway.

    I do believe he will do damage as a receiver when they bring 8 guys up to stop Stacy and company.
    # holtgettingmedown

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Herzog.
    #3941
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    i’m of the opinion that tavon should be a major contributor outside of just special teams. whether the team passes it a lot or not, you don’t spend that kind of draft value on a special teams guy. i really hope he’s not the next desmond howard. my only hope is holt is not much of an evaluator. great players don’t always make great evaluators. we’ll see.

    #3998
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    Coach Jeff Fisher admitted the Rams need to get Austin the ball in space more — just don’t expect to see that during the preseason.

    “We just have to give him the ball,” Fisher said. “Give him the ball in space, because we all know what he can do with it. And so we’re doing some different things. Probably won’t show a whole lot in the preseason, but I’ve (sic) very pleased with where he’s at right now.”

    i’m hoping this is what it is. just save the secret weapon for the regular season.

    he’s the most explosive player on the rams offense. you have to use him. in the passing game. in the running game. let’s go tavon!

    #4002
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    and also to add to that. i don’t expect tavon to become more physical this year. to be able to break tackles and be a complete route runner capable of taking on physical cornerbacks.

    but i do expect him to become a better route runner. to have more confidence. to think less. and more than anything else to have better hands. those things alone should be enough to make him a significant contributor.

    i’m hoping for around 65 catches 700 yards receiving. 30 rushes 300 yards rushing. that combined with punt returns could provide the rams with some explosiveness.

    last year he had 569 yards from scrimmage over 13 games. projected to a 16 game season that is 700 yards. so i think 700 receiving and 300 rushing is a realistic goal from year 1 to year 2.

    #4115
    zn
    Moderator

    and also to add to that. i don’t expect tavon to become more physical this year. to be able to break tackles and be a complete route runner capable of taking on physical cornerbacks.

    but i do expect him to become a better route runner. to have more confidence. to think less. and more than anything else to have better hands. those things alone should be enough to make him a significant contributor.

    i’m hoping for around 65 catches 700 yards receiving. 30 rushes 300 yards rushing. that combined with punt returns could provide the rams with some explosiveness.

    last year he had 569 yards from scrimmage over 13 games. projected to a 16 game season that is 700 yards. so i think 700 receiving and 300 rushing is a realistic goal from year 1 to year 2.

    Okay that’s how I see it too, generally speaking.

    My own view of this is that TH was just remarking on things he saw Austin doing in camp practices. But, my intuition is that they won’t be using Austin during the season the way they do in camp practices, and that at the same time they are not going to show those plays during camp. I think they will integrate Austin lots of different ways but that it will be gameplan specific, game by game, and not something an observer will see during the summer.

    And besides, I have no problem with him being a combined yards weapon and not, strictly speaking, a receiver per se.

    Last year he was clearly held back by rookie head-swimming syndrome. I don’t think it had anything to do with Schott. There’s 2 ways to approach that issue. McD just had rookies go out and do what he drew up, regardless. That led to 2 of the surest hands on the team–Kendricks and Pettis–being confused, overthinking rookies with the dropsies. (In fact, so much so, that to this day a few don’t even realize Kendricks is surehanded. That’s how strong an impression his rookie confusions left in some minds.) Or there’s the Schott way, which is don’t ask them to do it if they can’t. If that’s all true (as I think it is) then Schott will be using Austin in more ways this year.

    I see over and over, people saying, Schott had to figure Austin out. I doubt that, personally. Well no wait. I am sure that’s true to an extent, but not how the critics are presenting it–as something more than the ordinary. But in principle Schott would be no different in that regard than any other coordinator with a new, head-swimming player. If anything, Schott already had a near-Austin type in New York–Leon Washington. Washington was a back who returned kicks and caught passes, while Austin is a receiver who runs out of the backfield and returns kicks, so they are cousin species. Either way Washington was a multi-purpose weapons guy and heavier than Austin, but still there were similarities, and Schott found all sorts of ways to use Washington. So none of this was extremely new. So to me, it was never a problem of Schott figuring Austin out (that is more than the usual figuring a rookie out thing), it was more of a problem of yet another rookie (almost)receiver struggling SO Schott’s solution was to limit what he did, at first. (Especially since Schott’s offense depends a lot on sight adjustments, and most rookie skill players don’t arrive in the NFL already capable of reading defenses well enough to be comfortable with that.)

    Anyway the combined yards thing is fine with me. Even with rookie syndrome and 3 missed games, Austin had 1246 combined yards (or so…that’s from memory), which was on pace for 1530 something.

    And, I am more than okay with that.

    .

    #4116
    rfl
    Participant

    Just a quick point to add about Tavon.

    He had a successful rookie year.

    Everything you guys are saying is spot on. Yet the fact is he had a successful year. He put plenty of big plays “on tape” as they say. Including several that were called back.

    Apparently, he did suffer from rookie mental fog. Nevertheless, he never stopped competing. It was never that the game was too big for him. He was probably thinking a bit much, but he competed and often showed brilliance.

    I keep remembering the game where he scored 2 TDs but was disappointed with his performance afterward. His comments and attitude were those of a true competitor. And I also think of the TDs. Both, if I recall, were on the goal line. SHort passes in heavy traffic. So even in a situation where they WEREN’T creating space for him as they should, he still found ways to be productive under duress.

    Tavon Austin is just fine. In a balanced offense, the projections you guys are making will come true and we’ll be delighted.

    And you know what? Torry Holt has never impressed me as being very bright. He’s a poorish commentator, IMO, who rarely offers more than platitudes and fuzziness.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #4119
    rfl
    Participant

    ZN: I see over and over, people saying, Schott had to figure Austin out. I doubt that, personally. … Schott already had a near-Austin type in New York–Leon Washington. … Washington was a multi-purpose weapons guy and heavier than Austin, but still there were similarities, and Schott found all sorts of ways to use Washington. So none of this was extremely new. So to me, it was never a problem of Schott figuring Austin out (that is more than the usual figuring a rookie out thing), it was more of a problem of yet another rookie (almost)receiver struggling SO Schott’s solution was to limit what he did, at first.

    These are nuanced issues and it’s impossible to precisely analyze things. You make some good balancing points. But.

    My sense is that Schott DID struggle to figure Austin out. Not in a generic sense, not a matter of Schott needing to figure out how to use this type of player.

    What I think Schott had to figure out were Austin’s limitations. I think the plan early in the season was to let Austin wreak havoc from within traffic. The expectation apparently was that Austin could break out of tight spaces. That’s the only way I can make sense out of their early season habit of simply tossing him the ball underneath without having done much to create space. I believe Schott had to learn that, good as Austin is, he isn’t THAT good.

    Now you have Fisher saying on the record that they need to get Austin the ball more IN SPACE. Yep. To me, that’s been the issue all along. In my view, Schott had to learn that Austin, a truly special talent, was not nevertheless so special that he could create magic in heavy traffic.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #4121
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    i agree with you guys. definite signs that he was becoming more comfortable right before he went down with the injury. showed some big time explosiveness.

    tavon will adapt to this league. and the coaches will continue to find specific ways in which austin can use his explosion to help this offense. i agree with you rfl. just the normal process of developing a rookie with a different skill set than your typical “wide receiver”.

    and good point, zn, about not showing much in camp. they’re certainly keeping things close to the vest.

    #4200
    GreatRamNTheSky
    Participant

    From what I saw Saturday versus Green Bay, Bradford has no issues throwing Tavon the ball. Tavon caught both passes thrown his way for positive yardage. Sam keeps tossing Tavon the ball he is going to break a few. I think Torry is off base in is opinion of Tavon. Maybe a little jealous too.

    Grits

    #4204
    PA Ram
    Participant

    And you know what? Torry Holt has never impressed me as being very bright. He’s a poorish commentator, IMO, who rarely offers more than platitudes and fuzziness.

    Yeah–he offers something once in a while but I don’t think he has much of a future as a broadcaster. Last week he kept saying Ray-Ray Mcdonald. Five minutes into this week’s broadcast he said the same thing. Come on Torry–you gotta get the names right.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by PA Ram.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #4633
    zn
    Moderator

    tavon will adapt to this league. and the coaches will continue to find specific ways in which austin can use his explosion to help this offense. i agree with you rfl. just the normal process of developing a rookie with a different skill set than your typical “wide receiver”.

    I think we will see Austin do all kinds of things this year. The goal is 2000 combined yards–receiving, returning, rushing. The 3 Rs of Austinology.

    #4639
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Very good discussion.

    I also see him as a 2k all around guy. And Fisher is right that getting Austin the ball is space is the goal.

    What has been missing is using AUSTIN to get Austin space. How so? I’ve said before that they don’t use his speed enough. He’s fast enough that just one deep route where he gets behind the CB and forces the Safety to bring help will change the D. He’s fast enough that if that happens just ONCE… and he’s just that fast… that the Safety has to know he may have to bail out. Now, on a play action, either he sells out on the run, leaving less or no over the top help and Austin has a TD or he bails and that tells Schott that moving Austin out like that is a great way to open up the run game. Also, a go or fly pattern with that speed will force the DB with the current rules to get into his back pedal quicker and flip his hips sooner. Which will allow Tavon to set up the DB for a break to the inside and really create some nice separation, especially if it’s a play action and the Safety has bitten down to make a play on the runner. That will leave all kinds of space.

    Point is that folks are saying that the run game has to create space for Austin or Quick or Britt or Cook have to create space for Austin. Poppycock. Austin can create all the space he needs by himself with some creative synergistic playcalling from Schott. Let Austin use his speed a few times a game to just…FLY…on the outside. Let that 4.3 speed go and give that outside guy something to worry about.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

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