waterfield wrote:

I know there are plenty of theories and actual explanations over how and why people like “these” get so angry. The best I can come up with is something my wife says: A changing demography that best can be described, in the eyes of the Trumpers, as a cultural eclipse. Their “way of life” is being overrun by people that look different-meaning black and brown people.

I suspect that’s a big part of it.

waterfield wrote:

Hey you guys ! I know what socialism is; I know my conservative friends are “nutz”; I know that calling Biden a socialist is simply “mane calling”. I get all that. My point is how can we ever come close to bridging these gaps as long as there is such a divergence of opinions

It’s not a “divergence of opinions.” They’re wrong. One side in this is not an “opinion,” it’s rational and fact-based truth.

Same with climate change deniers. I don’t want “middle ground” with deniers, they’re wrong.

Same with those who downplay covid. I don’t want to arrive at a middle ground with them. They’re wrong.

Same with those who claim Trump won the election and was robbed. I don’t want to meet them halfway. They’re wrong.

Those are all dangerous things to be wrong about.

…

Zooey wrote:

None of that is on the table in any way…with maybe the one exception of government health insurance…and Biden opposes that.

So…again…name a socialist policy or system that Biden supports.

And by the “strict definition of policies” test, of course, not a single member of the Dem party is a “socialist” though some are progressives who advocate policies (such as M4A) which fit within a “New Deal reborn” model that is still essentially amended capitalism and not strictly socialist.

And as I said Biden shut those people out and does not identify with any of their policies.

Though you know of course that to a lot of righties the word “socialist” is not used in anything remotely like its real sense. It’s just a pejorative buzz term for anyone who advocates any social and economic policies that are not “shrink the government” style right-wing policies.

It reminds me of the days of Martin Luther King when many opposed to civil rights called the typical policy ideas of the civil rights movement “communist.” It’s just a big broad form of name-calling.

…

waterfield wrote:

Biden a socialist? I have conservative friends tell me that. And a few are not dumb. I watch interviews of these anarchists in D.C. and its like ” we won’t let Biden turn this country into “socialism”. Then I come here and its like Biden is no different than a free market capitalist.

It is no wonder to me that, from a political standpoint, we are so far apart in our views. You guys here must laugh when you hear Trump supporters yell about Biden and his band of socialists.

I just can’t figure this stuff out anymore.

This is a long long conversation but part of being a leftist includes a commitment to science, research, inquiry, and fact-based understanding. That’s not exclusive to leftists of course but it IS a leftist thing. Evidence, history, attention to policies, empirical understanding, and so on. That can go hand in hand in many cases with religious faith–many paleontologists, for example, say they are people of faith, the point being there is no contradiction there.

And righties have drifted off into la-la land. Conspiracy theories, red scare discourse, rejection of fact-based knowledge, and so on. Anti-maskers, deniers of the virus, and also–belief that Biden is a “socialist.”

And of course, simply put, Biden is not a “socialist.” In fact very far from it. That’s a simple fact and it will hold up to whatever kind of rational scrutiny you want to bring. The righties who say otherwise are deluded. Pure and simple.

This is not a “divided world with contrasting perceptions” thing. Your rightie friends are demonstrably, completely in the wrong about that. Pure and simple. It’s part of right-wing thinking that enemies are tied to exclusionary buzz terms and beyond that there’s no logic. So for example there were thousands of BLM protests last summer with several million people marching in them all across the country, and we KNOW–factually KNOW–the vast majority of those (95% or more) were peaceful. But what is a BLM protest to a rightie? Looting, arson, rioting, violence. It’s simply not true. But they cannot *hear* it.

Biden is as much a “socialist” as you and I are 49er fans. In fact Biden conducts open warfare against progressives.

….