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znModerator’ll believe it when I see it.
Consider me doubting Thomas.
I won’t root any less hard on Sunday, but I’ve seen and heard all this before. And… yeah. Still have yet to see even 8 wins.
Dear Thomas,
My view of course is very different. I think 7 wins under those conditions last year is actually very encouraging.
Now would I bet the farm on them improving this year?
Well since I don’t own a farm, it’s a moot question.
Yours sincerely, Hopeful Hank
May 9, 2016 at 2:28 pm in reply to: Stan Kroenke’s memory may be a little foggy on Kurt Warner #43721znModeratorThomas: Who knew? Kroenke helped discover Warner
Jim Thomas
Stan Kroenke’s alter ego took over at a news conference held before a small public audience in Inglewood, Calif., on Jan. 15. He laughed, cried, joked — but most surprising of all, he showed up to answer questions. (AP Photo)
Just when you thought the universe of people who helped discover Kurt Warner had long since been exhausted, along comes Stan Kroenke.Kroenke, who gave zero interviews over the Rams’ last four years in St. Louis, can’t shut up now that the team is in Los Angeles. In his latest escapade, a recent interview with Jarrett Bell of USA Today, Kroenke recalled giving Dick Vermeil advice on Warner in 1998.
“Dick Vermeil asked me my opinion of who the third quarterback should be,” Kroenke told USA Today. “I told Dick, ‘OK, I’ve never even played football but you want my opinion? The kid from Northern Iowa can see. He’s got vision. It’s like a really good point guard (in basketball). Some guys have it. Some guys don’t.”
In 1998, Tony Banks was firmly ensconced as the starter. Steve Bono was acquired in a trade with Green Bay to be the backup. That left Will Furrer and Warner, who was signed as a “street” free agent early that offseason, competing for the No. 3 job.
Exactly how Kroenke came to his conclusion about Warner’s vision is uncertain. For one, Warner was assigned to the Amsterdam Admirals of NFL Europe that spring, so he didn’t participate in the Rams’ minicamps or OTAs.
For another, even back then as Rams minority owner, Kroenke almost never attended practice. And in preseason that summer, Warner threw all of four passes in exhibition play.
So apparently either Kroenke is a quick study in terms of what little he may have seen on the practice field. Or he was grinding out practice tape or NFL Europe film in his spare time.
On Saturday, Vermeil told the Post-Dispatch he doesn’t recall having that conversation with Kroenke. “But if he said it, I’m sure it was true,” Vermeil said.
Vermeil said Kroenke was almost timid about engaging with the team at that time, perhaps in deference to majority owner Georgia Frontiere. Whenever Kroenke was around, which wasn’t often, Vermeil said he tried to update him on what was going on with the team.
Keep in mind, Mike Martz had yet to be hired as offensive coordinator. In 1998, he was working as wide receivers coach for Washington. General manager Charley Armey was around, and he told the Post-Dispatch on Friday that he wasn’t privy to any conversation Kroenke may have had with Vermeil on the subject of Warner.
But Armey did have this to say about keeping Warner that year:
“The decision to keep Kurt Warner was 100 percent Dick Vermeil,” Armey said. “Everybody was lobbying for other people, including the next year when Trent Green got hurt. Some guys wanted Jeff Hostetler and some guys wanted Jeff George. Dick Vermeil stuck to his guns.”
Once the coaches got to see Warner on the practice field over the course of the 1998 regular season, respect grew for him. Armey told a reporter midway through the ’98 season that the team already had a quarterback on the roster who was much better than Banks — Warner.
When Vermeil hired Martz as offensive coordinator after the ’98 season, he told him to take a good look at Warner — both the practice film and NFL Europe tape — because he was the Rams’ scout team quarterback in ’98, and the starting defense had trouble stopping him.
And even though the Rams went 4-12 in 1998, they finished 10th in total defense and third in passing defense that year, so Warner was going against good personnel every day running the scout team.
Warner, in fact, won the offensive service award, as voted on by the coaching staff, as the team’s outstanding practice player in 1998.
Even saying all that, there is this long-forgotten fact about the Rams and Warner: He was exposed on the expansion list for the Cleveland Browns after the ’98 season.
There for the taking. The Browns didn’t claim him, so Warner stayed a Ram for a 1999 season that ended with a Super Bowl championship.
Warner’s response to the Kroenke story was as follows via his Twitter account:
“Trust me, he wasn’t only 1 responsible for discovering me … Haha all good I don’t care who gets credit!”
znModeratorHe had Roddy White, came from a pro style offense, threw on only 40% of plays, many on play action and he played in a weak NFC South.
That enabled such a turnaround.
Well the division wasn’t mentioned, but White was mentioned, the pro style offense was mentioned, and the percentage of pass plays (45% actually) was mentioned.
The parallels are these.
Rookie qb, revamped Boudreau OL, strong emphasis on the running game.
Though another difference is that the Rams have a much stronger defense than the Falcons did.
But bringing this up is not to make predictions, it’s just to discuss standards of assessment. For example, I said: Ryan had an 87.7 qb rating that year, which is more or less what ought to be expected of Goff.
I disagree that the Goff situation is not similar to that of Flacco, Ryan, or Roethlisberger. In fact it’s more like it than not. The opposite situation in one where the team has nothing, like most teams picking 1st in the draft, and try to build around a qb who is their first major acquisition. That’s just not the Rams situation.
There are pieces on offense. So for example (and it’s just an example) in previous years Kendricks has led the team in catch percentage. Gurley. And we don’t know what else yet, but it won’t be nothing.
They had one of the toughest schedules in the league last year too (3rd actually) and managed to pull out a 7-9 season even with a young then injured line, a melted down Foles and an “okay but no better than that” Keenum, and multiple key injuries on defense.
If they could do that they can hold their own now too, IMO.
And btw I don’t think adapting to a pro offense will be a huge issue for Goff. It wasn’t that much for Bradford in 2010, and if anything, Goff is further along in that regard than Bradford was.
znModeratorAn integral element of that moral economy is displacement of the critique of the invidious outcomes produced by capitalist class power onto equally naturalized categories of ascriptive identity that sort us into groups supposedly defined by what we essentially are rather than what we do. As I have argued, following Walter Michaels and others, within that moral economy a society in which 1% of the population controlled 90% of the resources could be just, provided that roughly 12% of the 1% were black, 12% were Latino, 50% were women, and whatever the appropriate proportions were LGBT people.
There’s some truth to that…and also a lot of bs to that.
For his argument to work there have to be a lot of people with fixed, one-note political visions. So for example if you’re into LGBT issues you can’t notice class, or capitalist power structures.
Well I know so many people who defy that one-note idea that all I can do when I read statements like that is roll my eyes.
The problem isn’t “identity politics,” it’s what he thinks it is. The problem is his overly categorical perceptions. I routinely rub elbows with people who just don’t reduce to his simple categories. Really—I mean for me, that’s an everyday thing.
…
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znModeratorAlright though I take issue with your use of the word “win”.
Fair enough.
znModeratorNo, since I didn’t misconstrue your point. Review what you wrote and you’ll see I’m in agreement about teams taking into account people like teammates who have dealt with the player. You even suggested teams might have seen something in his interviews with NFL teams for the draft. Again I agree. What we don’t agree on and what you have never posted proof of in this case or any other is if the dad was used as a negative mark by any NFL team in the players downgrading. There is no proof of that and I contend that the ass clown writer should be sued by the dad.
Look this is over. I will just clarify. NONE of the things said about why Cook dropped is open, explicit, “owned by teams,” direct, or any of that. It all has the same status. We get hints teams didn’t like the way he interviewed…we get hints that toxic dad may have been an issue. It’s all hints.
That’s the third or 4th time I’ve said that. We’re not going anywhere. Neither of us is going to change, and this is becoming the kind of bickering we shut down on this board.
So along with me, give it a break. Everyone knows what each of us thinks and no one will “win.” Move on. Okay?
znModeratorOK good, we have gotten the issue out of the way that no NFL team has cited anything about this guy’s dad as being among the negative marks used in his downgrading.
No…that’s not what I said. Don’t misconstrue my point. What I said was that no team openly said anything about why they downgraded Cook. They didn’t openly say the stuff you believe, any more than they openly said the stuff you DON’T believe.
So my point was they never said THIS, either:
. The downgrading was due to people who had dealt with him personally whether as a teammate or NFL draft interviewee.
My point, then, was that no team said anythingexplicitly. It was all leaked whispers. You may choose to believe one set of things and not the other, and that’s your personal choice. But you aren’t going to “win” an argument about which kind of leaked whispers count and which don’t. That’s simply a matter of opinion.
I also quoted enough to show you the “toxic dad” issue does not reduce to one reporter.
And I put in the “agree to disagree” qualifier too, because if I am just repeating myself, then, it’s not a discussion. It’s just a quarrel we should put a halt to. This kind of bickering is not common on this board, so learn when to graciously say “yeah okay we just differ on this.” I said “But then on the mighty toxic dad issue, we will each believe what we want, which is fine.”
So we’re done. Your view is known, mine is known. Right?
.
znModeratorRams left impressed by first look at rookies
Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/29147/rams-left-impressed-by-first-look-at-rookies
LOS ANGELES — The Los Angeles Rams held their annual rookie orientation over the weekend, offering the team its first chance to see its new crop of rookies up close.
The group of rookies included the six the Rams drafted, 19 undrafted free agents and a pair of tryout players. Rams coach Jeff Fisher’s plan for the rookies during the orientation is always to limit time on the field to short drills and a general walk-through pace while emphasizing everything that goes into making the transition to the NFL.
Still, Fisher came away with a positive first impression of the 2016 rookie group.
“They’ve done a really good job, just really impressed with the whole group,” Fisher said. “We’ve got a lot accomplished. As we have referred to this in the past as an orientation, as opposed to a minicamp, and in essence that’s what it is. We’re monitoring their speed and explosive movements and things like that, particularly because they are a little bit behind the veterans. They adjusted, they did a nice job. We got a lot of offense and defense in; we got some special-teams work going.”
In addition to that light on-field work, the rookies got their first weightlifting session with strength coach Rock Gullickson and sat through a variety of meetings ranging from an introduction to schemes to how the Rams go about their business and practices.
While the veteran Rams are still going through the offseason conditioning program, Fisher makes it a point to keep the rookies separate from the older players for a little while longer.
“As we continue to move in to our offseason program, we’re going to kind of keep them separate from the veterans for about a week or so,” Fisher said. “Work them in the afternoon and just let them observe, just to ensure that we get them caught up to that conditioning level where our vets are.”
Of course, as is often the case, not all of the rookies will get to stick around for the immediate future. NFL rules stipulate that rookies can’t join their team full time until their school year is complete. Many of the teams in the Pac-12 Conference, for example, are on the quarter system and have finals later than other schools. That means quarterback Jared Goff will have to return to school briefly before he can return.
“I know he’s looking forward to coming back,” Fisher said. “We have a number of players that have to leave because their exams aren’t over — Jared being one of them. But, most everybody will be back next weekend. Those that do leave, we have about a half dozen or so that are leaving, but the rest of the guys will be here and participate throughout the offseason program.”
Fisher said the rookies that do get to stick around will have their first chance to meet the veterans on Monday. They’ll then begin integrating the rookies and veterans in advance of the start of organized team activities, the first of which is scheduled for May 31.
“They’ll be meetings together and things like that,” Fisher said. “As a matter of fact and they’re looking forward to it, they get to introduce themselves to the veterans on Monday morning at the team meeting. That’s always amusing.”
znModerator2016 Rookie Camp Highlights – Day 1
See the best shots from the first day of the Rams Rookie Orientation.
znModeratorGoff grateful to get on field
The Associated Press
OXNARD, Calif. — After months of pre-draft preparations leading to a memorable night in Chicago, Jared Goff is finally getting to do what he loves most with his fellow newcomers to the Los Angeles Rams.
The No. 1 pick in the NFL draft went through his first practice alongside the Rams’ rookies and undrafted free agents at the coastal temporary training base Friday. Although the Rams didn’t do much at full speed, their new quarterback was simply grateful to be in a helmet instead of a suit, and on a field instead of in a classroom.
“It was nice to get out here,” Goff said after practice. “Get running around, get to sweat a little bit, throw the ball around, play catch.”
Goff capped off a day of meetings and studying with two hours of deliberate practice. The Rams are still a month away from any full-squad workouts, but Goff intends to use the weekend as an opportunity to begin building chemistry with the fleet of rookie pass-catchers acquired along with him last weekend.
Goff has plenty of work to do before he suits up with the veterans during organized team activities next month. He is already hard at work on learning the Rams’ offense, realizing he’ll need every minute of experience if he hopes to fulfill coach Jeff Fisher’s goal for him to start the season opener.
“It’s almost like you’re learning a different language,” Goff said. “It’s like you’re going into Spanish class. You have to become fluent in Spanish over however long a time it is. There’s a lot of stuff that translates, that I kind of understand that it’s a different word, and there’s lots of stuff that I’m learning. Today it went really well. I felt like I picked it up as the day went on and got better.”
Along with the entire Rams’ playbook, he is always working on improving his technique under center after a college career spent in the shotgun at California. Goff took plenty of snaps under center in his first practice, but the finer points of the skill will be tested later.
Goff intends to prove he doesn’t lack basic NFL skills because of his background in Cal coach Sonny Dykes’ Bear Raid offense.
“There is a lot that translates,” Goff said. “Most of the (shotgun) stuff translates, all of it. There’s under-center stuff that I’m picking up as I go, and it’s gone really well so far.”
Goff’s teammates haven’t yet seen the full strength of his arm, but fellow rookie draft picks Tyler Higbee and Pharoh Cooper are eager to catch plenty of passes from him. Goff and Cooper exchanged excited texts about their future during the week between the draft and the rookie camp.
“You want to just be the guy you are and the person you are, to be the leader of my rookie class, per se,” said Goff, who plans to “just work as hard as I can, make everyone buy in and just be a good teammate and be the best player I can be.”
Goff is just downstate from his native Bay Area, but receiver Nelson Spruce is even closer to home. The undrafted free agent signee is from Westlake Village, California, a short drive from the Rams’ temporary offseason headquarters in Oxnard and just a few minutes from their more permanent regular-season training home in Thousand Oaks.
Spruce, the Colorado product who became the Pac-12’s career receptions leader last season, already had a connection with Goff before the rookie camp. They worked out together before the NFL combine, already building up a rapport.
“I’ve been throwing with him for a couple of months,” Spruce said. “I think he’s the guy that’s going to lead this entire organization, so I’m excited to see what he does. … Any little advantage I can get, I’m going to take. That little chemistry I have is going to pay off, especially at the beginning.”
znModeratorIan Seau, nephew of Hall of Famer Junior Seau, looks to make his own impact in NFL
By Helene Elliott
http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-rams-seau-elliott-20160509-column.html
The resemblance between Ian Seau and his late uncle, pro football Hall of Famer Junior Seau, is in determination more than DNA, more striking in their love of family, football and the ukulele than in their facial features.
Ian Seau, one of 19 undrafted rookie free agents who participated in the Rams’ rookie mini-camp last week in Oxnard, isn’t as tall or muscular as his uncle, who played 13 of his 20 NFL seasons in San Diego. Ian Seau, slightly shorter at 6 feet 2 and a bit lighter at 250 pounds, doesn’t have his famous relative’s athleticism. His strengths are less visible.
“I’m a really hard worker. It’s not easy to make me quit. I rarely quit,” Ian said. “I go out there and I’m going to compete. I’m going to claw and try and stay a part of this organization, so whatever I have to do, I’m going to find a way to stay on this team.”
He had a solid career as a defensive end and outside linebacker at Nevada, where he racked up 10 sacks and 18.5 tackles for loss last season, but he didn’t hear his name called on draft day. By contrast, Junior Seau was chosen fifth overall by the Chargers in 1990 out of USC, launching a stellar career as one of the game’s premier linebackers.
Three years into retirement he shot himself in the chest and died on May 2, 2012. Doctors concluded he had suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a degenerative disease found in the brains of people with a history of severe or repeated brain injuries. Approximately 90 former NFL players have tested positive for the disease.
While uncle and nephew were close, Ian said Junior rarely spoke of football or its pitfalls.
“He tried to keep his professional life different from his social life and his family life. He never really talked to me about playing in the NFL,” Ian said. “He just told me, ‘Hey man, when you’re in the league make sure you have a ukulele next to you.’ I got my uke out here. Whenever I’m stressed out I can just play that. Just small things he gave me of that nature.”
To avoid causing a fuss, Junior Seau would arrive unannounced the few times he attended Ian’s games at La Jolla Country Day School and La Costa Canyon High in Carlsbad. “Watching Ian play football, even basketball, he pulled me aside and said that he reminds me how I used to play, when I played basketball and football,” said Mary Seau, Junior’s sister and a single mother to Ian and daughter Shannalei. “Junior could not believe that he was a clone of him.”
That bond is why Ian misses him keenly now. “I went to his grave sometimes throughout this whole entire process and said, ‘Uncle, man, I wish you were here to tell me what to do,'” Ian said. “I’d sit there hoping he gives me an answer. He never does. But it was cool. I wish he was here to talk me through this and sort of ease all this pain.”
It’s too early to evaluate the chances Ian will stick with the Rams and follow his uncle by playing at the Coliseum as the team returns to Los Angeles following an absence of two decades. The rookies spent the first few days easing into their surroundings and preparing to work with the veterans. He likes the Rams’ 4-3 defense and “great defensive line, a great defensive culture in general.” He believes he can also play middle linebacker if asked. “He really would like to do this not only for himself but to let Junior know that he didn’t give up, that he’s the only one that didn’t give up,” Mary Seau said.
This is his chance to be seen in his own light, not in his uncle’s ever-present shadow. “My biggest thing is I don’t want people to feel like I’m here because of my uncle’s last name,” Ian said. “I want them to say I did this on my own, and just being able to be in the same conversation as my uncle, just playing football, that’s a blessing. I’m here to make a name for myself as well.”
Mary Seau worked two or three jobs to support Ian’s football, basketball and track pursuits and Shannalei’s volleyball. She believes that without baby-sitting help from Shannalei and without developing a tough skin when parents at La Costa Canyon told Mary, “You need to go back where you came from,” Ian would not be where he is now.
She’s excited, of course, but she saw the downside of football through her brother’s suicide. One reason she works nights as a coordinator in the emergency room department at Scripps Encinitas is so she can spend days developing the nonprofit Mary Seau CTE Foundation, which aims to raise money to support research at Boston University’s Center for the Study of CTE. Mary Seau wants to launch low-cost seminars for families of those affected by brain trauma, to help them understand the disease’s terrible impact and make informed choices.
Her research leaves her knowledgeable about the risks her son faces. “I would have to say 50% of me, I am worried,” she said. “But it’s not like he’s not playing in the NFL because I will always be worried wherever my kids go. If they’re working as civilian employment, getting to the grocery store, it’s no different than playing in the NFL.”
Ian accepts those risks. “It scares me, but football is something that a lot of people do not only to make a good living for themselves but putting themselves in a position to make an impact on people’s lives,” he said. “That’s what the Rams have blessed me with. I’m out here and I’m able to get my name out there and try to influence some kids to make better decisions in life.”
znModeratorAll along I’ve said it is on the guy. What the guy did. What was said about the guy. That is all that was ever mentioned. Anything about his dad was never said to be a part of the negatives any team assigned to the guy. The whole throwing the dad under the bus as a contributing factor is BS until a team owns up to it. Until then his dad had nothing to do with his downgrading in the draft.
Well no team “owned up to” the other stuff either. So as I said multiple times (at least once per post) they were looking at his character and a number of things got mentioned. And, when you look at the other things, no team is explicitly and directly “owning” that stuff either. It too has the same status—reporters hear things from NFL people, and write it up as “teams say” or “some NFL people say” etc. Its status is no different. How do we know some teams did not like the way he handled himself in interviews? Because, as reported, “some teams said” or “some NFL executives have let it be known” etc. That kind of thing is virtually never direct, at least when it comes to red-flagging draft picks.
But then on the mighty toxic dad issue, we will each believe what we want, which is fine.
…
znModeratorExactly what I thought. Not one example of a team saying the guys dad figured into their downgrading of the guy. Not one. The best you could do was a “perhaps” and a “national source”. Again I call BS. Don’t know why you would use the term “apologize” for a team that considered the dad among the negatives for the draftee. Everything thus far merely confirms that the guy fell in the draft due to his own actions.
Teams don’t say that directly. It’s off the record buzz. You’ve followed football long enough, no doubt, to see how that works.
On the other hand, reporters don’t make up what teams say. They get called on that.
And I did not say he fell in the draft because of his toxic dad alone–in fact I said otherwise, more than once.
I said teams had negative takes on him and it was more than one thing. I provided quotes saying as much.
The issue is to explain why he fell in the draft. I never said it was solely because he dad was a jerk…and not only did I say otherwise, I provided quotations from sources that did as well…to quote it again: Did Cook’s dad have anything to do with him slipping into the fourth round? It’s possible, and there have been reports that some teams simply didn’t like the way Cook carried himself in pre-draft interviews. If any team was looking for a reason to take a chance on Cook, his dad’s strong personality probably didn’t help nudge them in that direction.
znModeratoro, all I’ve seen is what you posted and that didn’t say squat about the NFL downgrading the guy at all because of his dad.
Well that’s the word. There are several articles talking about this.
As far as teams “owning up” to red-flagging a guy for various reasons, they’re doing their jobs and have nothing to apologize for. The NFL has been doing this for years…guys get red-flagged every single year, even the Rams do it. And again: no one said that toxic dad was the only reason. In fact they all say different–it was more than one thing.
In terms of this being what teams thought about Cook and not just the work of a reporter, in the one article I posted, it is said in the very first paragraph:
…
A report about why he fell despite his obvious talent pointed to attitude problems and a bad rap from his teammates. According to the Detroit News, there wasn’t one incident that turned teams off, but rather, nobody seemed to like Cook much
…
In other words they are writing about what TEAMS in the NFL think of Cook. The issue is why he dropped in the draft. That’s the point of the whole thing.
And there’s more. As I said I only posted one article. It all comes in the context of red-flagging Cook in general over character and personality issues. So I provide samples of all of that, since that’s the context:
NFL team scouts do extensive homework on the players entering the draft to try and make sure they get a good feel for the talent and character of the prospects. For Connor Cook, what we witnessed was a borderline first round talent fall into the third day due to character concerns. Or perhaps more so the character concerns of his father and his influence on his son.
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2016/5/6/11609274/connor-cook-fell-in-draft-due-to-parental-influences-oakland-raiders—
One of Spiro’s national sources told him that part of the reason that Cook was going to fall was because the NFL really delves into the background of potential QUARTERBACK draftees’ fathers.
Whether you think that is appropriate or not doesn’t matter. We were told that NFL executives believe there is some correlation between how a QB pans out and their sire.
link: http://detroitsportsrag.net/is-connor-cooks-dad-curt-schilling/
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But even though Cook has the talent to contribute in the NFL, sources made it clear why he slid so far in the draft. Teams view Cook as arrogant, a player whose personality flaws could be an issue in a locker room full of alpha males. In the NFL, any ego that doesn’t fit can be problematic, especially at quarterback.
While many players fall because of an isolated incident, there was no such issue with Cook, but teams questioned his behavior — off the field and toward teammates….
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Here’s the reality: The questions about Cook’s intangibles – personality, leadership, maturity, whatever – have existed for a while and they are widespread. They just got louder once Cook’s teammates didn’t elect him a team captain last fall. I know, because I heard the same thing last summer that I heard this spring.
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NFL teams dig deep specifically on the fathers of NFL quarterbacks and that there’s a direct correlation between crummy dads and bad future NFL passers. While we never will make a direct line between those two things, we will say this: Teams most certainly are aware of the actions and personalities of players’ family members, and it can have an effect — direct or otherwise — on where they end up playing or not playing in the NFL.
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Did Cook’s dad have anything to do with him slipping into the fourth round? It’s possible, and there have been reports that some teams simply didn’t like the way Cook carried himself in pre-draft interviews. If any team was looking for a reason to take a chance on Cook, his dad’s strong personality probably didn’t help nudge them in that direction.
link: http://larrybrownsports.com/football/connor-cooks-father-chris-may-have-soured-teams-on-qb/303703
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znModeratorThis is all worth looking through, IMO. (Though a couple of the vids are repeated, but that’s okay.)
There’s 3 or 4 receivers getting some strong buzz.
I bet the Rams sold their team as the place to be if you’re an undrafted rookie receiver.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if something came of this.
znModeratorStuff on UDFA receivers was all moved to here: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/rams-rookie-receivers-draft-picks-udfas/
znModeratorI moved the receivers stuff to this thread:
This thread was UDFA thread #1, for those keeping track. UDFA thread #2 is here:
znModeratorfrom off the net
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Florida_Ram
A CLOSER LOOK AT THE WR UDFA’s#86 WR NELSON SPRUCE 6’1 206 lbs (He only had 3 dropped catchable balls in his entire career?)[/color]
http://c.fn.fncdn.com/images/content/getty/crops/UsmATB.jpgYear……..Team……Games…Catch….Yards….YPC
2012…. Colorado…. 12………… 44…. 446…. 10.1…. TD 3
2013…. Colorado…. 12………… 55…. 650…. 11.8…. TD 4
2014…. Colorado…. 12…………106….1198…11.3…. TD 12
2015…. Colorado…. 13………….89…..1053…11.8…. TD 4http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1880803/nelson-spruce
STRENGTHS: Spruce is a polished, dependable route-runner with the soft hands to quickly become a quarterback’s favorite target. He uses deceptive quickness off of the ball to escape press coverage and incorporates body lean, varied gaits and an occasional push-off to gain separation from more athletic pass defenders.He has a lanky, athletic frame and possesses terrific ball skills, including the body control and catch radius to pull in passes far outside of his frame.
Spruce has good hand-eye coordination and soft mitts to pluck the football and secure it quickly. Effectively uses a jab-step to force opponents to commit to one direction before turning the other way, scrambling for extra yardage. He shows good vision to set up blocks and isn’t afraid to turn things upfield into traffic rather than attempting to circle around defenders.Spruce shows vision and toughness in working across the middle on drag routes, slipping through traffic and showing the focus and toughness to pull in passes with defenders closing in.
WEAKNESSES: While his production is undeniable, Spruce does not possess ideal athletic traits. Has just average straight-line speed and relies on sharp route-running (rather than true explosiveness) to generate separation. He’ll struggle to get free against NFL cornerbacks on the perimeter and doesn’t possess the size, leaping ability or strength to consistently win 50-50 balls.
IN OUR VIEW: Spruce is a classic possession receiver who wins with savvy route-running and soft hands. He production will get him a shot but he’s not surefire NFL prospect his numbers would indicate.
Rob Rang (1/18/16)YOUTUBE: Highlights of Milestones Spruce reached
YOUTUBE: Interview talks about setting PAC12 records
#3 WR MARQUEZ NORTH 6’2 223 lbs (Injury history only played in 13 games last 2 seasons)[/color]
http://www.utfootballinsider.com/uploads/2/6/6/6/26661169/201472.jpg?307Year…. Team…….Games….Catch…Yards…YPC
2013…. Tennessee……. 11…..38…..496…. 13.1…. TD 1
2014…. Tennessee……. 8…… 30…. 320…. 10.7…. TD 4
2015…. Tennessee……. 5…… 6…… 58………9.7…..TD 0http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2071852/marquez-north
STRENGTHS: Built like a running back with a muscular, filled-out frame. Long arms to track and extend his catch radius, making tough grabs look easy away from his body. Above average body control and strong hands to adjust and stab.Accelerates well off the line of scrimmage and quickly gets into his routes. Enough speed to stack receivers vertically. Nifty to catch the ball in stride. Body power to trample defensive backs and shrug off tacklers. Uses physicality to separate.
Balanced blocker to engage and control his target, keeping busy. Blocks with violence and not shy about delivering blows.
WEAKNESSES: Better timed than play speed and more of a one-note runner. Tips his routes and doesn’t set up cornerbacks, lacking nuance or tempo. Allows his feet to get tied up at stem. Doesn’t have the start/stop burst to quickly redirect or be efficient at the top of patterns – ran a lot of comeback and rudimentary routes to keep things simple. Average leaper.
Not elusive after the catch and not a consistent YAC threat. Overaggressive tendencies as a blocker leads to the occasional whiff. Poor career production. Struggled to stay healthy, missing several games each of his three seasons in Knoxville (10 total games).
IN OUR VIEW: North is rocked up with the size/athleticism profile that is highly intriguing, showing strong hands and the body control to contort his body mid-air. North is also one of the most physical blocking receivers in this class, but is a below average route-runner and his athleticism doesn’t consistently translate to football production.
A player who will be drafted higher than his resume suggests due to his raw traits and upside, North can be a better pro than college player if he stays healthy and focuses on the details of the position – he projects as a developmental receiver worth the gamble in the mid-rounds to be a snatch-and-secure wideout.
Dane Brugler (4/13/16)YOUTUBE: Quality highlights
#8 WR PAUL MCROBERTS 6’1 202 lbs (Small school scrappy WR gets his chance)[/color]
http://www.semissourian.com/photos/25/14/27/2514275-M.jpgYear…Games..Catch…..Yards…..YPC
2012….. 9…… 11………..138……..12.5…..TD 2
2013….. 12…. 44…………646….. 14.7….. TD 9
2014….. 7…… 44………… 711….. 16.2….. TD 9
2015….. 11…. 76…………940……12.4….. TD 9http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1998595/paul-mcroberts
McRoberts received the call-up from the Shrine Game to the Senior Bowl as a replacement for injured TCU receiver Josh Doctson and was the first SEMO player to participate in Mobile.
The St. Louis native was a first team All-Ohio Valley Conference player by the media after catching 76 passes for 940 yards and nine touchdowns, averaging 12.4 yards per catch in 2015. McRoberts broke Southeast’s all-time career record in receiving touchdowns (29) and had four 100-yard receiving games.He also compiled 162 yards on 14 punt returns, including a 69-yard return for a touchdown. McRoberts finished his Southeast career with 2,435 receiving yards, third-most in school history.
STRENGTHS: Good-sized athlete with long-striding acceleration. Not explosive, but nifty.
Quick hands and long arms to pluck and secure, swallowing the ball with his large mitts. Tracks well with the body control and catch radius that gives him a chance. Will aggressively attack and fight for the rebound.Won’t break many tackles, but runs tough and physical to finish. Nice job working for body position, paying attention to his feet along the sideline. Two-time team captain and reliable (SEMO HC Tom Matukewicz: “When your best player is your hardest worker it makes your job pretty easy.”).
Special teams experience, averaging 11.5 yards on punt returns (14/162/1) and 19.5 yards on kick returns (4/78/0). Highly productive and holds the school-record for career receiving touchdowns (29).
WEAKNESSES: Doesn’t consistently play up to his size. Average-at-best play speed with only one gear in his routes, struggling to create separation. Upright runner and doesn’t set up defenders in his patterns, lacking tempo. Allows cornerbacks to slow or re-route him.
Limited after the catch and won’t create on his own as a ballcarrier. Too many almost catches and needs to better time his leaps. Needs to improve his recognition of coverages and concepts. Good pop, but little sustain as a blocker and needs refinement in this area.
Missed five games in 2014 due to a Lisfranc fracture in his right foot (Sept. 2014). Most of his experience has come vs. lower competition.
IN OUR VIEW: Although he doesn’t do it consistently, it’s a thing of beauty when McRoberts can get his hands free and highpoint to attack the ball and use his basketball background (walked on the SEMO basketball team in 2013-14 and averaged 5.9 points per game). McRoberts wasn’t a consistent deep threat on film, but did his best work in the red zone and on in-breaking routes like slants and tunnel-screens, using his snatch-and-secure receiving skills.
He will have a very tough time separating vs. NFL cornerbacks due to average speed and dull routes, but his raw traits and large catch radius makes him an enticing developmental project in the later rounds.
Dane Brugler (2/3/16)YOUTUBE: HIGHLIGHTS
WR’s IN FOR TRY OUTS
WR D’HAQUILLE “DUKE” WILLIAMS 6’2 229 lbs (A troubled talent changing his ways?)[/color]
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/oanow.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/47/8477cfa2-30ad-11e4-9963-001a4bcf6878/5402793dc26b6.image.jpg?resize=300%2C2712014…. Catches…. 45…. Yards…. 730…. YPC…. 16.2…. Long…. 62…. TD 5
2015…. Catches…. 12…. Yards…. 147…. YPC…. 12.3…. Long…. 19…. TD 1http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2131681/dhaquille-williams
A JUCO transfer, Williams arrived at Auburn in 2014 and led the Tigers in catches (45) and receiving scores (5) despite missing three games due to injury. However, he routinely rubbed coaches the wrong way and his inconsistent effort on and off the field led to his dismissal in October.STRENGTHS: Natural tools are encouraging. Lining up mostly inside in Auburn’s offense, Williams is a good-sized target with long-striding speed to accelerate quickly into his routes, displaying hesitation with his footwork at the top of his patterns. He is best on stick and stop routes.
WEAKNESSES: Like Sammie Coates, he is raw in several areas. He doesn’t consistently play up to his size and often misjudges his highpointing jumps when attacking the ball.
Williams found himself in the dog house during preseason practices and his lackadaisical route-running has NFL scouts worried about his passion and commitment, failing to lift up the offense while his teammates struggled prior to his dismissal from the program.
IN OUR VIEW: Williams didn’t look like a first round pick on 2014 tape, but many scouts graded him as the top senior receiver over the summer. However, he might find himself undrafted or a late rounder at best unless he makes some changes.
Dane Brugler (11/1/15)YOUTUBE: HIGHLIGHTS (career)
WR KENNETH SCOTT 6’2 209 lbs (Longshot with little production)[/color]
http://imgix.scout.com/111/1115230.jpgYear.Team Games..Catch.Yards…YPC
2011…. Utah…. 10…… 8…. 141…. 17.6…. TD 0
2012…. Utah…. 12…. 32…. 360…. 11.3…. TD 3
2014…. Utah…. 12…. 48…. 506…. 10.5…. TD 4
2015…. Utah ….13…. 39…. 457…. 11.7…. TD 4….http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/130839/kenneth-scott
TFY Draft Insider’s Tony Pauline wrote that Utah WR Kenneth Scott “caught the ball extremely well” during Thursday’s Pro Day.
Among Scott’s Pro Day testing numbers, a nice 38-inch vertical jump, an estimated (less nice) 40-yard dash time of 4.64 seconds and 17 reps on the bench press.Last season, the 6-foot-3, 208-pound wideout caught 39 passes for 457 yards and four touchdowns.
TFY Draft Insider’s Tony Pauline harped on consistency issues over the summer. Without huge athletic upside, Scott probably stands as an UDFA once the draft dust has settled.YOUTUBE: HIGHLIGHTS
Jimmy JJ Worton, WR (LA/NE)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uauC3dghDRg/Um0Y5-a5nrI/AAAAAAAAHrw/1cCyFx_61oU/s288/218%252520%252528575×515%252529.jpgYear……… Team…Games…Catch..Yards..YPC
2011……… CentFL… 12….. 41…. 531….. 13.0… TD 4
2012…….. CentFL… 14….. 44…. 594….. 13.5… TD 5
2013…….. CentFL… 13….. 47…. 721….. 15.3… TD 7
2014…….. CentFL… 10….. 36…. 514….. 14.3… TD 5Spent the final month of the 2015 regular season on the St. Louis Rams practice squad after being signed on Dec. 11 as a rookie free agent from University of Central Florida.
The 6-foot-2, 211-pounder, finished his college career with 168 receptions for 2,360 receiving yards and 21 touchdowns. He had 36 receptions for 514 yards and five touchdowns as a senior in 2014.NFL DRAFT GEEKS: WR POWER RANKINGS (FULL LIST 1-65)[/color][/b]
Link.. http://nfldraftgeek.com/widereceiverrankings-2016nfldraft.html
znModeratorST. LOUIS TO LA
Two St. Louis high school products have agreed to terms with the Rams as undrafted free agents: wide receiver Paul McRoberts of Southeast Missouri State and Soldan High, and defensive back Michael Jordan of Missouri Western and Hazelwood Central High.
Several teams pursued McRoberts as a free agent after he went undrafted. The Rams reportedly paid him a signing bonus of $10,000 to help land him. McRoberts made a pre-draft visit to the Rams in mid April.
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http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/paul-mcroberts?id=2555290
OVERVIEW
McRoberts was a first-team All-Ohio Valley Conference pick in 2014 and 2015.
PRO DAY RESULTS
40-yard dash: 4.6 seconds
Vertical: 35 1/2 inches
Broad jump: 10 feet, 5 inches
Short shuttle: 4.42 seconds
3-cone: 7.28 seconds
Bench: 8 reps of 225 poundsANALYSIS
STRENGTHS
Tall with the frame to carry more weight. Played a year of college basketball and has ability to high point throws with the timing of a rebounder. Beats press coverage with basketball feet. Sinks hips into his breaks and can break routes off sharply when he wants. Gifted with extremely long arms and large hands for an elite catch radius. Can make difficult, one-handed catches. Pluck and tuck ball-catcher in traffic with natural, soft hands.
WEAKNESSES
Doesn’t have cushion-eating speed off the line of scrimmage to back cornerbacks off. Needs to do a better job of helping his quarterback out by working back to the ball. Shows inconsistent effort and play speed in his routes. Looks focused and hungry at times and lackadaisical at others. Can be slowed by contact along his routes. Can go get the high balls, but not as effective adjusting to low throws.
DRAFT PROJECTION
Round 7 or priority free agent
BOTTOM LINE
McRoberts dwarfs cornerbacks with his long frame and upright gait and his ability to stretch and high point the high throws makes him seem even taller. His routes are raw and sometimes uninspired, but he has the feet and athleticism to become much better with more work and coaching. McRoberts appears to lack deep speed. Will be intriguing on the third day.
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WR Paul McRoberts with the one-handed catch of the day! 👀
A photo posted by Los Angeles Rams (@rams) on
znModeratorRams WR Nelson Spruce hoping to make impact as an undrafted free agent
Jack Wang, Los Angeles Daily News
Nelson Spruce is still chasing his NFL dream. Somehow, it’s brought him back within a short drive of his hometown.
On Friday, the Los Angeles Rams completed their first day of rookie minicamp in Oxnard, less than 30 miles away from Westlake High. That’s where Spruce once pulled in 37 touchdowns and nearly 3,000 receiving yards, the bulk of which came over the course of two seasons. That was enough to earn him a scholarship at Colorado, where he became the Pac-12’s all-time leader in receptions.
Now, he’s back in Southern California, trying to earn a spot with a franchise that left town before he turned three.
“It’s kind of a crazy situation,” Spruce said.
Despite his college production, the 22-year-old had been left waiting after the NFL draft. Though he had prepared for the worst — his 4.69-second 40-yard dash didn’t turn any heads at the NFL combine — going undrafted was still disappointing. Thirty-three times over the course of three days, teams had decided to take a receiver. It was never him.
The Rams, however, had continuously showed the most interest. He kept in close touch with both offensive coordinator Rob Boras and receivers coach Mike Groh, and didn’t visit any other team for a private workout. And, as luck would have it, he had trained with top overall pick Jared Goff in advance of the combine.
“Any little advantage I can get, I’m going to take,” Spruce said. “I think that little chemistry we have is going to definitely pay off, especially to begin with.”
Of course, Goff has plenty of other rookie receivers to choose from too. There are the two draft picks, South Carolina’s Pharoh Cooper (No. 117) and Southern Mississippi’s Michael Thomas (No. 206). There are the two other signees, Southeast Missouri State’s Paul McRoberts and Tennessee’s Marquez North.
To earn himself a spot, Spruce will have to adjust to playing in the slot, after spending most of his career lining up out wide. He’ll also have to learn how to become a contributor on special teams, particularly in kick and punt return coverage.
He’s looking forward to the challenge: “I’m glad I ended up here.”
PENDING LEGAL TROUBLES
A day after pleading not guilty to second-degree assault, Tyler Higbee finished his first practice as a Ram.
He talked about how appreciative he was about his opportunity to chase his lifelong dream. He expressed enthusiasm for building chemistry with his teammates. He said he was happy to be able to put a helmet on again.
As for his pending legal case, the former Western Kentucky star was a little less loquacious.
“That’ll all work itself out,” he said. “It’s kind of a legal matter. I’m just excited to be here and focus on football.”
The rookie tight end was drafted in the fourth round last week, his stock likely depressed by his April 10 arrest on charges of assault, fleeing the police and public intoxication. He is accused of knocking a man unconscious outside a bar in Bowling Green, Ky. The man was hospitalized for more than a week for a concussion and a brain hemorrhage, but Higbee claims to have acted in self-defense to protect himself and his girlfriend.
Not due in court again until June 17 for a status hearing, Higbee is expected to participate in the rest of the Rams’ offseason workouts.
znModeratorWyche: Rams will put their rookies through ‘rookie school’
NFL Media’s Steve Wyche talks about the opening day of the Los Angeles Rams three-day rookie minicamp and how the team is handing the transition to Los Angeles.
znModeratorRookie Camp Wrap-Up
Rams Insider Myles Simmons wraps up QB Jared Goff’s Rookie Camp.
http://www.therams.com/videos/videos/Rookie-Camp-Wrap-Up/e7c5e699-e2e9-4bee-91ab-d2fb3c828746
znModeratorRemember, it’s not the reporters who are saying this stuff. It’s the teams. The reporters are just picking things up from teams.
The teams are the ones who dropped him to round 4.
And according to the reporter, NFL PERSONNEL PEOPLE felt his twitter-active dad was one of the detractions. This isn’t the first time teams have dropped players in their rankings because they come with family baggage.
None of this is the reporter. It’s the reporter reporting things NFL personnel people were considering.
And of course there were other things too, not just dad (who among other things knocked a fan unconscious in the stands during a game).
…
It is the reporters since the Detroit sports rag posited it about the NFL teams.
“Detroit Sports Rag posits that teams look at quarterbacks’ fathers when they evaluate their draft-worthiness, and what they found when they dug into Connor’s father Chris soured enough of them for Cook to fall to the fourth.”
The guy dropped in the draft due to his actions, not his dad’s.
No you are completely misreading. First, that was not the only article on this–it’s just the one I posted. There are several, including ones from Oakland. This is a widespread story. In every case it is made clear that the dad-on-twitter issue is ONE of the things that NFL personnel people considered a red flag. The issue the articles all raised is why NFL personnel people dropped Cook in their rankings. Loud dad was one of them. It’s just one of them.
It is actually quite normal for NFL personnel people to look into the family. It is also normal for them to red flag a guy with family distractions in his history. And it is equally normal for some teams then to leak issues like that to various reporters.
Remember—the actual issue being covered is this: why did Cook drop in the draft. The answer came from NFL people. Among other things, having a loud toxic social media dad was one of the things that NFL PEOPLE SAID dropped Cook in their assessments.
You’re just blaming the messanger.
..
znModeratorReady or not, King Goff is off to Hollywood
Paul Ladewski
http://www.sfexaminer.com/ready-not-king-goff-off-hollywood/
It’s far too early to say how this Jared Goff thing will turn out, but know this much — the beginning is straight out of Hollywood.
When Goff showed up for his first days of practice as Los Angeles Rams quarterback this weekend, crowds grew and eyes widened. Flashbulbs popped. Headlines proclaimed him the “New King of L.A.” and “Goff Angeles.” And the social world was all aTwitter.
“From one #1 Pick to another, @JaredGoff16 I know you will turn the @RamsNFL around and lead us to the Super Bowl!”
Yep, none other than Los Angeles Lakers legend Magic Johnson tweeted that Super-sized request.
Is Goff ready for Southern California? More to the point, is SoCal ready for a nice, 21-year-old Catholic kid who just wants to play football and do it well?
“Do you have a girlfriend? Can we get you a Kardashian or something like that?” Jimmy Kimmel made the kid QB an offer on national television the other night.
Sorry, the only Gurley on Goff’s mind is named Todd, the feature back that he hopes to hand the ball to a bunch of times in the future.
As vanilla as he may seem, Goff does have some California cool in him even if it’s more noticeable on the field. He’s unflappable in the face of adversity, and Lord knows he faced enough of it at Cal the last three years.
“I’m just going to come out here and play,” Goff promised reporters. “I’m not gonna worry about all this. This really doesn’t matter that much. I’m just gonna get better every day and be the best player and teammate I can be and let all you guys come here and film me and enjoy it.”
Problem is, Southern California wants more than a good try. Everyone likes a winner, but L.A. craves one like nowhere else. The Rams may be a team on the come, but they’re not close yet. The turnaround will require time and patience, and the truth is, El-Ey doesn’t offer much of either one.
But if the kid is given something to work with and allowed to be himself, this is one Hollywood marriage that may actually work
znModeratorRemember, it’s not the reporters who are saying this stuff. It’s the teams. The reporters are just picking things up from teams.
The teams are the ones who dropped him to round 4.
And according to the reporter, NFL PERSONNEL PEOPLE felt his twitter-active dad was one of the detractions. This isn’t the first time teams have dropped players in their rankings because they come with family baggage.
None of this is the reporter. It’s the reporter reporting things NFL personnel people were considering.
And of course there were other things too, not just dad (who among other things knocked a fan unconscious in the stands during a game).
…
May 8, 2016 at 6:20 pm in reply to: economist interrogated for doing math on American Airlines #43647znModeratorAnd that he’s best known for his relatively technical work on search theory, which helped earn … stints at … Stanford’s Hoover Institution.
Well I would have reported him for that alone.
.
znModeratorGood stuff.
Ultimate mystery stuff.
I still think its accurate to say
everything in the Universe is made of the
“same stuff”. Yes? No?I mean it all ‘came’ from the ‘stuff’
in the teeny-tiny ‘thing’ that ‘inflated’ itself.w
vUnless what came from that was DIFFERENT stuff.
…
————-
Well, we know YOU are made of
Different stuff.w
v
znModeratorI call BS on the column. The ” teams questioned his behavior — off the field and toward teammates” is what made him drop and if he pans out in the NFL he may consider giving back with an eye towards what that sniping gossip cost him in cash lost.
It’s not sniping gossip if in fact, as was widely reported, he was basically an arrogant dick who offended his own teammates and was a prowling nightlifer on top of it. It’s the Jeff George profile.
znModeratorWell, I’d say that Connor Cook’s dad is not a rare bread among fathers of football players. Or among fathers of non-football players, for that matter.
Yes he is, in this sense.
He’s stupid enough to do this kind of thing regularly online.
And…that does not bode well.
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