“we know who LOST the war of 1812, but we are still not sure who won.”
(The Native Americans lost)

Well as someone who wants to see Trump lose the next election, I love all this “Pardoning himself” talk.

Cause I think among that sliver of voters who havent made up their minds about Trump or who might go either way — I dont think the pardon thing plays well. I think it will bother more people than the russia thing. The fact that he thinks he can just pardon himself.

w
v

Can he pardon himself?

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zn wrote:

Washington Post

“For me, it is difficult to believe that any Supreme Court justice would endorse the right of a president to be lawless, in the sense of being entirely above the application of law,” Frenkel said.

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It is not difficult for me to believe that some justices would let him pardon himself.

If it did come to that, I think he’d lose the election. It’d still be close though. His base thinks its the system thats corrupt, not him. And they are half right.

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Billy_T wrote:

<

WV, you’re an actual lawyer, and I haven’t even played one on TV . . . but are you saying that if you were Trump’s lawyer, and you knew he’s innocent,

. . . .

—
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Well wv-brain could not
1 imagine being trumps lawyer,
and
2 imagine Trump being innocent.

My brain just wont go there.

Not even with a jug of Ayahuasca, and a basket of mushrooms.

w
v

I disagree. Yes an innocent person would send that 🙂 Its just lawyer stuff, Billy. His lawyers did it, not him. There’s no downside to arguing every possible angle on a legal issue. They are just throwing everything including the kitchen sink at him.

Its an awful argument, of course.

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Allz I know is the pieces are all in place for Goff. OLine, Weapons, Defense, Coaches — its all in place. He’s set up better than any QB since the GSOT days.

So…we shall see.

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nittany ram wrote:

So, msnbc has a story about a boy who raised $6000.00 with his lemonade stand to pay for his terminally ill brother’s medical bills. They reported it as an inspirational story.

However, the story’s not inspirational. It’s a tragedy and should be reported as such. It’s a tragedy because a family has to figure out a way to pay for the medical bills of a dying child. The horrible grief isn’t a big enough price to pay.

==========================

Yup. And that kind of story/dynamic is repeated on the corporate news, NON-STOP 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That kind of story/angle. Nonstop.

And YOU are a leftist. Leftists notice that instantly. Libruls dont see it.

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Billy_T wrote:

Both major parties, corporate America, the intel community, the Pentagon, etc. I’m just not really seeing how this is all that different from, or worse than . . . 50 years ago, with one caveat:

I think corporate lying has gotten far more sophisticated (and coordinated), and since the early 1970s,..

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Well the corporate component of the system is huge, I’d say. And I think its gotten worse as the Media has come under the control of fewer and fewer Corpse.

I also think the new technologies have helped the lie-factory. Except for the internet. And thats why, of course, the internet is coming under control of the Lie-Factory. At least they are trying. I wouldnt bet against them.

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waterfield wrote:

“So why do so many folks think this disgusting health-care system is just fine and dandy?”

I don’t know. Sometimes I think we look at everything from a political view when stuff can be fairly simple. IMO “so many folks” have their own physician that they favor for a variety of reasons. So the mention of single payer or universal care causes anxiety over the prospect of losing that personal relationship with their doc. I don’t think it has much to do with the bad guys propagandizing the good guys as much as we want it to.

As far as being selfish I again don’t think the bad guys have caused this. We are born selfish. The baby cries cause he or she wants something. Gimme gimme gimme-until they get it. As the baby gets older the movies, television, etc tells the individual its OK to “gather” stuff and it becomes a matter of entitlement and “what’s in it for me”. The key to having a more compassionate society is to “learn” how to be unselfish. The only way I know how that can be done is through parenting. And good luck with that. But the first thing that needs to be done is to stop blaming big government and the politics for all that ails us. That’s simply an easy answer. The difficult one is how to teach a parent who has been raised with a sense of entitlement to reverse that in their children. And that’s difficult because to do that one has to lead by example. But that’s hard as most of us would rather sit back and say its the smelly leftists or the reactionary right wing or capitalism or corporations or this or that -when the real answer is within themselves. Any change in the form of government or its leaders won’t matter a lick if the “people” have no sense of empathy toward those of less fortune.

Now enough of my soap box theories.

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Yes, we have different views about the big picture. You blame selfishness on biology. “People are born that way”

I on the other hand am a system-blamer (not a ‘government’ blamer).
I think babies are born with brains that can be very selfish or very self-less. Its systems/environment that will nudge people toward selfishness or selflessness.

I think corporate-capitalism nudges people toward greed, individualism, superstition, and all the other stuff you dont like about Americans these days.
(I am wildly over-simplifying here as usual, but its a message-board post. Ya know.)

Whats YOUR explanation for what you are seeing in society today, W? I know YOU are disgusted too. You’ve said so. If its not a failed-system then what is your explanation?

w
v

I saw that one.

Looks like Maher is supporting Bernie now, btw.

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nittany ram wrote:

<

But at its core is a group of people who are ok with millions of Americans not having healthcare. They are ok with it because they profit from it. And these people do everything possible to maintain the system…

======================

Of course millions of middle-class people AGREE with the rich folks profiting from this disgusting system that leaves millions of people without health care.

So why do so many folks think this disgusting health-care system is just fine and dandy?

Well, the answer from us leftists is — propaganda works. People have been fed a pack of lies and disinformation for years. A propaganda campaign, from the Corporations. And it works.
(Its exactly the same kind of campaign that destroyed Upton Sinclair’s candidacy in the 30’s. I’m readin a book called “Empire of their own: How the Jews Invented Hollywood” and there’s a chapter about rightwing Jewish movie moguls who used movies and propaganda and money to defeat the socialist Sinclair…)

The thing that i wonder about is this — in order to support a system that leaves millions without health care, and gives rich folks a chance to live longer than poor folks — you have to be deep-down-selfish. You have to be. Right?
So what causes or nourishes or encourages that “deep down selfishness” in Americans? Somethin must be pushing Americans in that direction of selfishness.

Humans are malleable. They can be selfish and they can be non-selfish. So both are programmed into us biologically. So what could be pushing Americans in the selfish direction?

What could it possibly be…

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waterfield wrote:

<
The New Deal was spawned from the great depression. It wasn’t a social invention. It was specifically designed by FDR to rescue the greatest economic collapse in our history. Those conditions do not exist today. Yes people support a lot of stuff including universal health care. But that doesn’t mean they’re correct. Vermont tried universal health and had to abandon it because of the costs. Out health system now is so bloated that it would be impossible to reinvent it. It’s simply too late.

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How is it that so many other nations have managed to give all their citizens health care?

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Bernie was asked about Vermont here, and he does not give a very smooth answer, imho. Though, i agree with his answer.