waterfield wrote:

WV: Who was your favorite President in your lifetime, W ?

In my adult life it was JFK. In my non adult life I think it would have been Ike.

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You know we had a strange case in WV not too long ago. A legal-scholar-type-guy wrote a long book detailing the long sordid history of corruption in WV politics. It went all the way back to the Hatfield/McCoy days. One chapter was about JFK and his vote-buying in WV back in 1960 and his smearing of Humphrey etc etc etc.

The book is pretty good.

Now the muckraker who wrote it later became Chief Justice of the WV Supreme Court.

But. Irony of Ironies, the guy who wrote with so much passion and detail about Rep and Dem corruption in wv, was Indicted by a Fed Grand Jury and later was convicted of eleven offenses of Fraud. Facing impeachment he resigned in 2018. Below is a link to his book and a short reader review with a reader-edit.

book:https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Another-Vote-Wont-Landslide/dp/0870127489
Don’t Buy Another Vote, I Won’t Pay for a Landslide: The Sordid And Continuing History of Political Corruption in West Virginia Hardcover
book reviews
“Robert Bolton comment:
When Allen Loughry wrote this book, there was another review I encountered in print that stated whatever political ambitions the author may have had within the state were now dead. Against all seasoned political observers’ predictions, Mr. Loughry now serves as a justice on the West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals. Although I am not friends with Justice Loughry, I did meet him during my swearing-in as an attorney, and afterwards he told me he wrote this book in part because he felt it was necessary to give the citizenry a detailed history of their elected officials’ misbehavior to avoid such mistakes in the future.

As for the text itself, it is a thoroughly interesting read and extremely well footnoted. The book was originally a dissertation in pursuit of a S.J.D. and there are occasions when the writing comes off as somewhat wooden. Nonetheless, as a compendium for the history of corruption in this state, there is no better source. While the main focus of Mr. Loughry’s book is the second half of the twentieth century, he is still able to effectively mention the names of judges and congressmen from the early days after the state’s founding. Among the most notable sections (and the one from which the book derives its title) is the description of the obscene amount of money spent in the West Virginia Democratic primary in 1960 when John F. Kennedy was running against Hubert Humphrey. More recent events described include the fall of state treasurer A. James Manchin for the loss and likely embezzlement of state funds, the imprisonment of Arch Moore in a federal penitentiary for bribery in the early 1990s, and a plethora of circuit judges that seem unwilling to behave and avoid being on the other side of the bench.

Within the past five years, one could open their newspaper and see a Lincoln County sheriff who pleaded guilty to ballot stuffing, a judge from Randolph County removed from the bench for an affair with another court official, and Kanawha County’s inability to retain a lead prosecuting attorney beyond two terms because of malfeasance. That said, I think West Virginia has seen a marked increase in the honesty of its elections in recent decades, and I do not doubt Mr. Loughry expressed the voice of many who seek a more honest political life from their representatives.

At well over six hundred pages in small print, this book will take quite a while to read. There are some minor printer’s errors regarding spelling or particular dates, but these subtract very little from the crash course in West Virginia politics you will receive from reading this book. On the whole, I highly recommend it.

Edit: Since I initially wrote this review nearly five years ago, Justice Loughry has been indicted and convicted on federal charges of false statements to an officer, witness tampering, wire fraud, and other criminal counts. In addition, he was facing impeachment before he resigned his office. He is now serving his sentence in a South Carolina penitentiary. It is a bitter irony that the man who wrote the book on West Virginia’s culture of corruption would face charges of similar malfeasance. As one of our local media commentators, Hoppy Kercheval, noted when the news of Loughry’s indictment first broke, “t’s evident now that another chapter needs to be added.”

waterfield wrote:

You need to pick the hill your going to do battle on. We now have the single most “UNETHICAL” President in the hx of this nation. Period ! The most “ethical” thing we can do is getting rid of this imposter of a President. We won’t do it if over 180 million people who have private health care are told they will need to give it up-even if its for a higher calling. It just won’t happen….

Safe and enjoyable 4th to all.

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I dunno if Trump is the most unethical President of all time. Bush started a war based on lies, and Trump hasnt done that, so, its difficult to weigh these things, etc, and so forth.

I know Universal Care is totally ‘do-able’ in America.
I know that because many many Nations do it in various ways.
I know its the only ethical thing to do. Its a life and death issue.
I know ‘most’ americans (according to surveys) SAY they are for Universal care.
I know that despite the surveys american keep voting for politicians that DONT want Universal Care.
I know Trump wont save those lives of the poor Americans without coverage.
I know Biden, and the other Corpse-Dems will also let those poor Americans without coverage Die.
I know Bernie and Tulsi will fight for the lives of the American who will die without coverage.
(I also know, that Tulsi, unlike Bernie opposes Imperial wars)

So, where am i wrong here?

I guess we are just talking past each other. You think Tulsi/Bernie are UNELECTABLE, and if the Dems choose them it leads to more Trump. Maybe. Could be. But it could also be that NOT choosing a progressive Dem is what leads to Trump. I mean thats what happened last time.

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zn wrote:

wv wrote:

What do you think of Eliz Warren? And Tulsi?

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I like how they don’t have to be prompted to stay on topic.

Just personally? I like Tulsi better than Warren. Warren as a personality is fine, but in terms of policies, still has too much of the dem establishment feel to her for my liking. I don’t know if she’s as bad as Obama when it comes to that.

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I’ll have to check who gives them money, sometime. It was purty easy to see Obama was gonna be Obama just by looking at how much Goldman Sachs was giving his campaign.

I suspect Warren is just another corp-dem running as a liberal-Dem.

Tulsi is a different animal. I have no idea what her domestic policies are, but she’s the onliest Dem candidate (Bernie included) who is flat-out challenging the military-industrial-deep-state-empire thingy. And for that alone she has my complete-utter-respect. Its a very sad state of affairs when only one marginal candidate opposes bloody-Empire.

You seem to be more hopeful about this Nation-of-Fucked-Up-Ness. I dont know why you still have hope. Why do you still have hope? What kind of hope is it?
…it it that type of hope where you always think the Rams new draft class is gonna be good ? 🙂

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zn wrote:

waterfield wrote:

I also believe that kids these days have lost or never had a real sense of values.

I just don’t see that at all. Even in the least. Speaking as the father of 2 20-somethings plus the father-in-law of 2 more 20-somethings. I have some familiarity with their world and to me, it’s not what you’re describing. So fwiw we’re just experiencing that whole question (kids these days) differently.

…

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What do you think of Eliz Warren? And Tulsi?

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zn wrote:

Andy Benoit@Andy_Benoit
What makes Aaron Donald’s dominance extra amazing is the #Rams have done almost nothing schematically to help him get 1-on-1 blocking. They likely will this year.

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Well….why would that be true?

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waterfield wrote:

Sorry but “fuck the rich” is a very real thing. If its in the minds of people-and it is-then its real. I don’t buy polls when it comes to Trump. When it comes to polls people will say who they “like” . When it comes to pen to paper they vote on whats best for them regardless of who they like. I know too many people who don’t care for Trump at all but I know when they are in the booth they will vote for him if they believe he is a better for their own individual needs and desires. Like the person WV referred to above there are nice, friendly, people who genuinely believe the progressive will give a away too much-meaning they’re going to take stuff away from them. We are basically a selfish nation and Trump knows how to handle our fears and anxieties to his own benefit-maybe more than anyone ever who ran for President. Someone needs to take the mantel and somehow get us to think less about our selves and more about those in need. I think Warren and Buttigieg can do a far better job of that than Sanders. he looked so inept when he had to admit the middle class will pay more in taxes. He really didn’t want to do it and it showed. IMO what is needed is a candid who can face the nation and say: “We need to raise taxes because…” and make the case for it much like JFK’s “ask what you can do for your country” speech.

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Are you for single-payer health care, W ? Maybe we’ve talked about this, but i forget.

Is Warren for it?

Is health care in the top-3 issues for most voters? What are the top 3 issues for MOST American voters these days?

I ‘wish’ Imperialism-endless-deep-state-War was the big issue. But its not. Never will be.

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Mackeyser wrote:

wv wrote:

“… for establishment centrists, Warren was emerging as an acceptable alternative to Sanders…”

Yeah, and this is exactly what i expected. They’d love Biden, but if they think Biden cant win, they’d hold their nose and support Warren.

Anyone but Bernie for the centrists.

One wonders if they’d support Trump over Bernie?

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Well, they did before, in large numbers.

I’ll just put this out there.

Trump is GOING to get re-elected because the DNC is feckless. Bernie NEVER had a chance and the DNC would rather fundraise another four years on Trump’s tweets than actually engage in representative democracy that is responsible to the constituent base as opposed to corporate donors. That’s why campaign finance was never going to happen.

I really tried for a minute to hold out hope for a Bernie candidacy, but when the DNC argues in open court that they do not have a fiduciary responsibility to the Bernie supporters who gave money and that they can use the money in any way they like and appoint a candidate in a backroom if they choose because violating their charter is not criminal… well, that was game over.

I’m glad Bernie is running insofar as he is the gravity to keep this from being a 1981 Republican vs a 2019 Trumpian, but unfortunately, I’m not sure even the gravity of a black hole could move the Dems to the actual center left, let alone to the left (Bernie being on the Center left and all).

Oh, also, hi all. Mea culpa, I’m an ass for not posting… at all. Between medical issues and my damned “outta sight, outta mind” functioning, I’m just terrible at communicating, it seems.

Hope this little ray of sunshine finds all of you well. Only the ray of sunshine is meant sarcastically, of course.

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Hey Mack, send me an email sometime. I got some Braz. Jujitsu questions

Ike26501@yahoo

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TSRF wrote:

This blew my mind:

Initially, the case also included Florida-based publisher Moon Rocks Books, but the principal officer of the company, Dave Gahary, settled the case following a May deposition with Pozner.

“I looked him in the eyes, listened to his testimony, had frank discussions about our respective concerns, and, in the end, shook his hand,” Gahary said in a statement on Monday.

“My face-to-face interactions with Mr. Pozner have led me to believe that Mr. Pozner is telling the truth about the death of his son. I extend my most heartfelt and sincere apology to the Pozner family,” he said, also offering his condolences.

Gahary agreed to stop publishing future editions of the book and to stop selling it entirely by the end of the month.

The man who published the book actually BELIEVED that the whole damn thing was a hoax until he LOOKED A FATHER WHO LOST HIS CHILD IN THE EYE and then realized it wasn’t a joke?

Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that Trump was elected in the first place and may be elected again. Talk about the dumbing down of America…

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Well, my wild unfounded speculation is that he did not believe it was a hoax. I think he saw an opportunity to make money and took it. And now he’s telling a story that allows him to play the role of Mr Honorable Guy. Etc.

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waterfield wrote:

In a verbal war Trump has called Biden “a loser”. In response guess what Biden calls Trump? ” An existential threat”. This likely will raise the hair on James Carville’s head. . Do you really honestly believe that those who voted for Trump actually know what “an existential” threat is ? Worse: do they have any idea what “existential” means? There is a way to beat this guy but its not to speak over the heads of his voters.

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True.

Jon Kerry, Dukakis, Al Gore, and on and on. Democrats.

They are the “Ed Sullivans” of politics.

If the dems had any balls, they’d all call Trump a Sleaze-bag, Lying, traitorous, aldultering, Billionaire, Buffoon.

I’m serious.

Just keep pounding away at the ‘sleaze’ factor.

“Existential” ? Are you kidding me?

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• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by wv.