laram wrote:

InvaderRam wrote:

the arizona run at the end. and the chicago bears run where he stops on a dime and reverses. beautiful runs.

Invader when you get a chance check out this Football Outsiders breakdown on TA.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/factors-tavon-austin

well the article refers a lot to his lack of physicality. he’s too easily pushed around on routes, and he struggles to maintain balance when he takes a hit. those are all things i agree with. his hands last year were bad. yeah. that seems correct.

still. i think he can be a useful player. i don’t think he’ll ever live up to his draft status. but i see him as a valuable player. i see him as a rich man’s amp lee…

ha!

I don’t agree.

He does catch passes, and does do a combo of things in the passing game. IMO he is only a “failure” in that regard if someone expected him to be a pure receiver.

He also can run the ball out of the backfield.

And he can also return punts.

As for what Fisher said…he tellingly states (just paraphrasing not directly quoting) “one thing he CAN do is run past you downfield.” That is, he ends up talking about what Tavon is CAPABLE OF (presumably, capable of, so far.)

I also think there’s this mistaken view out there that says they didn’t use him to on deep routes. Well, yeah, they did. They did it with Bradford and Clemens. I don’t think they bothered to do it with Davis. They did do it with Hill, Hill just never threw to him.

Anyway, Tavon is controversial. That makes discussing him very interesting. And as such, lots of people with different opinions Declare The Truth Of Tavon. I do it myself, though part of me also tries to remember that there are widely different views on this. When it comes to that, I am personally more aligned with invader, who sees a guy who isn’t prepared or ready yet. What’s the difference between a player who CAN’T (do XY or Z) and a player who DOESN;T KNOW HOW TO YET (do XY or Z). I think sometimes people don’t account for the intangibles stuff–like when is a player lacking in a particular talent and when is he just playing without confidence or with mental hesitations. My own view is not that he is a “failure,” my view is that he needs to improve in a couple of areas, and that like Quick he’s slow to do it. This is the disadvantage of taking highly talented guys out of spread offenses—they are not pro ready, and sometimes take a couple of years to get it worked out. That makes them harder to judge.

yeah. we are in agreement. he’s not going to be a dominant pure wide receiver. but i think there’s certainly the capacity to get better as a receiver. plus he contributes big plays in a variety of ways. he’s a receiver/runner/returner. he’s a slash player.

a little more on the not being pro-ready.

tavon came to west virginia as a running back. and converted to receiver his freshman year. he had 15 receptions the first year and then 58 receptions the second year. wasn’t until his junior year that he really took off. now i’m not saying he is going to have 100 receptions next year. but i think 50 receptions is reasonable. with more explosive plays.

as far as what fisher said. it could be open to interpretation. i take it as fisher thought they could have done a better job getting him in mismatches and getting him the ball where he could do damage. he also talked about lining him up wide. could it just be lip service? possibly. but for now at least i’ll take fisher’s word.

a couple things i disagree with on the original post.

1. i do think he has the stop and start quickness the rams thought he had. i think the main problems are his size and the fact that he is thinking too much when he is out there. he won’t ever be able to overcome the size problem, but as far as the thinking too much. he’s only entering his third year. i would think there is still room to grow there, and as he starts to think less and just react, maybe the production will start to go up.

2. also. the issue of using him properly. there could be some validity to the argument. fisher himself has alluded to the fact that he was misused in 2014 and that they plan to correct that this year. maybe cig has some ideas. maybe it’s just a matter of simplifying some things. regardless, fisher saw some issues on defense and adjusted last year. maybe fisher and cig saw some issues with the offense in 2014 and plan on making adjustments. maybe these involve tavon. maybe they don’t. but i don’t think it can just be dismissed.

worst case scenario at 9 months he’d be ready at week 1. as a reference point bradford tore his acl october 20 2013. he was playing in preseason games week 3.

gurley was injured november 15 2014. about a month. so maybe week 3 of the regular season.

of course you could take the extreme example of an adrian peterson who was injured december 24 2011. he returned for the first week of the following season. that would be unrealistic. still that gives gurley more than a month on peterson for recovery time.

wow. hang in there. mental illness can be a tough thing to come to grips with. for everyone involved. be well. and i hope everyone involved finds peace.

mark richt on todd gurley

http://www.rams-news.com/mark-richt-why-todd-gurley-is-the-best-rb-hes-ever-coached-or-seen-in-person-audio/

Agamemnon wrote:

InvaderRam wrote:

i don’t know what ag is talking about.

lol, that is what they all say.

haha. well you might have information that i don’t. with the way i understand the situation. while acknowledging that there might be details i don’t know about. i would have picked him in the seventh round. am i terribly upset about it? not really. in the end. things were done correctly. and if that means the rams do not get collins. i am ultimately alright with that.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by InvaderRam.

zn wrote:

His power is more subtle than bam. Marshawn Lynch is the bam power back who loads up to deliver the blow that he bounces off and continuers running. Todd isn’t like that and that is the biggest reason why I don’t think Todd is comparable to Lynch.

Watching Todd run he leans into the hit where the defenders can’t get that solid hit but ends up bouncing off, because of the leverage/angle. To me Todd is just a very smooth runner, nothing choppy or erratic.

I also think he is similar to Herschel Walker in the way they both run. Herschel would drive through a tackler a little more aggressively than Todd, but BOTH got the job done rather easily. Herschel was also a fluid runner.

well i like that if that’s true. the bam power backs who deliver blows absorb more damage in my humble opinion. and are more prone to wear and tear. gurley’s style should help him out. and for anyone who has seen the gurley injury, it wasn’t a contact injury. he planted awkwardly, and the ligament just gave out.

an aside. i was reading this article by the rams’ team doctor. and they focus a lot on retraining the muscles in that area to prevent those type of injuries. hopefully, it works and gurley doesn’t suffer future setbacks.

anyway. having that running style where he can avoid direct blows and still maintain balance. yeah. that sounds much better than just colliding head on into a 250 pound linebacker.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by InvaderRam.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by zn.

i haven’t given up on tavon yet. i don’t think he’ll ever be a primary feature of this or any offense, but i think we have yet to see the best of him. but he’s still got 71 receptions for 660 yards through two seasons.

but yeah. this is a pivotal season for him. i wouldn’t say make or break. but yeah. i’d say it’s pivotal.

one other thing. there’s talk about having gurley sit out until mid-november. i’m not sure that’s the way to go. i had believed that previously. but knowing that rehabilitation usually takes 6-9 months, that would put him right at the beginning of the season. so if he everything goes as expected and the coaching staff is confident that he knows the offense. he should be playing week 1. it’s either healed or it isn’t. i do think that he should be eased in. meaning that mason should get the bulk of the carries to start out with, and then slowly integrate gurley in. and depending how things go, ideally, gurley would be getting around 50% of the carries with mason getting 40%. the other 10% would be divided up among the rest including tavon, cunningham, etc…

well. athletes are at a greatest risk for a second tear after initial surgery. i think that’s pretty much a fact. especially within the first two years.

does that mean he should not have been picked in the top 10 because of that fact? well. that’s debatable. i think it’s worth the risk. but the fact that he had that initial tear dropped him from a top 5 selection to a top 10 selection. that could end up working in the rams favor.

enough athletes have come back successfully from the surgery that i feel fairly confident gurley can still have a long and productive career. and the long-term consequences of this injury won’t be seen until long after his career is over.

let’s add on to that. say greg robinson takes several steps closer to being the left tackle snisher thinks he will be. say stedman bailey becomes the receiver many are anticipating. say cignetti finds more ways to get tavon involved in the offense. say tre mason builds on last season and becomes that running back 1b. say brian quick comes back healthy. say alec ogletree reports to camp in shape. say aaron donald continues to build on last season. say the defense comes back under the same system for the second consecutive year.

lots of ingredients continuing to simmer. wonder what it tastes like in 2015. cuz it hasn’t tasted quite done. yet.

Also, yeah, the defense was kind of lost too. Took them a while to get up to par.

new defensive coordinator. brockers playing at a different weight i believe. ogletree shows up out of shape…

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by InvaderRam.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by InvaderRam.