Is this the worst ram pass offense ever?

It is very hard to watch. I have no confidence anytime Foles tries to pass. I’m thinking more of hoping he doesn’t throw a pick than anticipating it will be anything positive.

No.

Just off the top of my head, it was worse in 2009 and 2011.

This one fails to consistently get yards but makes plays in spurts.

Former ones didn’t even do THAT. They just failed to get yards.

That’s because this one isn’t a collapsed and broken offense like in those years. This one is a struggling offense that has the ingredients to get better.

For example look at the point differential.

2009: Rams 10.9 v. 27.25
2011: Rams 12 v, 25.4
2015: Rams 19.1 v. 18.25

The difference again being that the 2 previous years represent complete collapse (mostly from injuries but also from personnel issues).

This one ranks low statistically but manages to make some big plays. But it is low statistically not because it is damaged, but because it is young and inexperienced as a unit, without the kind of cohesion they need, but which will come later.

Jim Thomas ‏@jthom1 9m9 minutes ago
Foles ranks 27th in passer rating (79.7), 28th in 3rd-down passing (62.9), and 31st in 4th-quarter passing (71.6).

zn wrote:

No.

Just off the top of my head, it was worse in 2009 and 2011.

This one fails to consistently get yards but makes plays in spurts.

Former ones didn’t even do THAT. They just failed to get yards.

That’s because this one isn’t a collapsed and broken offense like in those years. This one is a struggling offense that has the ingredients to get better.

For example look at the point differential.

2009: Rams 10.9 v. 27.25
2011: Rams 12 v, 25.4
2015: Rams 19.1 v. 18.25

The difference again being that the 2 previous years represent complete collapse (mostly from injuries but also from personnel issues).

This one ranks low statistically but manages to make some big plays. But it is low statistically not because it is damaged, but because it is young and inexperienced as a unit, without the kind of cohesion they need, but which will come later.

Those offenses did not have Austin and Gurley on the roster–two explosive playmakers.

It should be better.

Yes there are line issues but the QB issues are big too. Foles HAS to play better. And no–I’m not forgetting the dropped passes. The receivers need to keep their heads in the game.

zn wrote:

PA Ram wrote:

Jim Thomas ‏@jthom1 7m7 minutes ago
Rams remain last in 3rd-down conversion rate (23.8%); they have converted only 24 off 101 third downs into first downs this season.

PA Ram wrote:

Jim Thomas ‏@jthom1 9m9 minutes ago
Foles ranks 27th in passer rating (79.7), 28th in 3rd-down passing (62.9), and 31st in 4th-quarter passing (71.6).

PA Ram wrote:

Jim Thomas ‏@jthom1 12m12 minutes ago
Rams move up to 5th in total defense following Minnesota game, but are 31st in total offense and 32nd in passing offense.

zn: And Jim watches them so he knows this is true too: they’re a mess because they are young and have not come together yet, BUT even given that they make enough big plays to be in games.

: We would burn all the sage in the universe to have gotten even that much in 2009 or 2011.

So ironically, the Rams are low in a lot of passing stats…yet 16th in points.

That is something that has to be explained. How can it be both.

Well, it’s the “young and struggling and not coherent but can make big plays and be in games” factor.

Which may make it one of the worst Rams offenses in terms of YARDS…but far from REALLY being one of the worst offenses. This one is just not together yet. Which means it CAN come together, though I ain’t promising when.

I think wv is mostly concerned about the “passing” offense though. A lot of the big plays are actually running plays. While the offense as a whole may indeed make bigger plays–the passing offense is somewhat miserable. Take away Gurley and Tavon’s runs and how does it look? How would it look if defenses were actually playing the pass and not having to stack the box because of Gurley’s threat? It should be easier but it just looks horrible. That’s what’s frustrating. And yes it’s many things but I don’t think they’ve gotten what they wanted out of Foles yet. Hopefully they will.

.

zn wrote:

PA Ram wrote:

I think wv is mostly concerned about the “passing” offense though. A lot of the big plays are actually running plays.

The mistake I see everyone making is they are taking one bad result and magnifying it, and losing sight of the fact that this is a young new offense, with the least experienced OL any of us have ever seen or heard of.

I don’t think that’s it. There have been questions about the passing game for a long time. I think that you can explain why this offense is a bit better than 2009 or 2011 into words: Todd Gurley.

I don’t see much ’cause for optimism in the passing game. Foles is tough and shows flashes, but I doubt that he’ll ever show better than average vision or ability to read defenses. Britt and Cook are great athletes with massive consistency problems.

I still think that Bailey has a lot of potential, but – for whatever reason – they aren’t getting him involved in the game. Quick is MIA. I still hold out hope that Tavon can become a very dangerous true wide receiver, but we haven’t seen it yet.

They are young, and I do think they will get better. I don’t, however, see a promising young passing offense that just doesn’t have its act together yet. I see a worst in the league passing offense that, if all goes really well, has the potential to mature into a 20th in the league passing offense. Maybe that’s enough with Gurley and this defense, but it’s hard to imagine how they ever rise to even middle of the pack with a roster that looks anything like the current one.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by TrenchRam.

I was really wrong about Foles. I figured a guy who had once had a historic year had to be at least solid.

He isn’t. I’ve seen enough this year to get a feel for what he is doing and not doing. And he really sux.

People talk about the opening play, but they tend to say it wrong. He didn’t “miss” Britt. He didn’t even see him. And he had time, Britt had major separation, and clearly that had to be the focus of the play as drawn. Foles never seemed to see Britt as an option. On the 1st scripted play of the game.

I know. He hit one later. In between pathetic, fluttering, indecisive flings (you can’t call them passes). I also know Tavon dropped one, the WRs struggled to get open, Cignetti and the OL struggled some. But Foles had time to do things. He just couldn’t. Couldn’t see the openings.Couldn’t hit a receiver when they were open. Couldn’t even challenge the WRs to make some plays with any deft throws.

Foles is a major problem, IMO. And his problems aren’t the sort that are going to get better. Especially with the experience Foles has.

I was so pumped that the Rams had figured a way to get a decent QB and save cap money. Well, they blew it. And now we face the biggest headache of all. Trying to find a decent QB from a mid-table draft position.

Ugh. You know, it’s fairly easy to imagine the OL settling in and picking up a WR or two next year. But finding a QB? That’s hard to do.

Hell, maybe Mannion will be able to play.

rfl wrote:

Hell, maybe Mannion will be able to play.

I really like Mannion. I wanted the Rams to draft him. I like Cook better. 😉

As for the draft, I can see Hackenberg dropping. How far? He has all the physical tools. Is he the QB you want? I could see throwing Philly’s draft choice at him.

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2016charlie_2.php#V2JAvvMo0IvZuvIE.99

Here is one early mock draft.

Here is another early mock draft.

wv wrote:

I”m sure they’ll get better.

WV, I’m curious. How is it that you’re sure they’ll get better? I see no reason at all to make an assumption like that.

Just wondering why you do.

rfl wrote:

People talk about the opening play, but they tend to say it wrong. He didn’t “miss” Britt. He didn’t even see him. And he had time, Britt had major separation, and clearly that had to be the focus of the play as drawn. Foles never seemed to see Britt as an option. On the 1st scripted play of the game.

I’d bet that opening play was scripted and designed to go to Cook. It looks like Foles scanned the middle for the safety and then immediately focused in on Cook running up the seam from the left side of the los.

It would have been a nice play, but the Vikes DE (Robison??) is able to get past Kendricks at the last second and force Foles out of the pocket. If Kendricks holds the block for just a little longer or Reynolds does a better job of helping Kendricks or Foles delivers the pass even with Robison applying pressure, the Rams have a nice 20+ yard play to Cook.

But you’re right about Foles. He is disappointing. I was hoping he’d be an above average to almost good quarterback. But he’s just an average guy. At least in this conservative, play it safe offense.

I’m going to try not to lament the trade, but it’s hard not to. I see Bradford’s arm in Philly, and I see Foles’ arm here, and I think that this team finally got a lot right, but traded their strong-arm QB just as he got healthy. I understand, because of the past injuries, but again, the Rams had bad timing.

I was blaming the O-line for Foles’ failures, but no longer. He’s just having trouble with accuracy, and the O-line is doing better. At least he’s good for a couple of big passes a game. That’s better than this team could muster a few years ago when a short pass to Amendola was an accomplishment.

wv wrote:

rfl wrote:

wv wrote:

I”m sure they’ll get better.

WV, I’m curious. How is it that you’re sure they’ll get better? I see no reason at all to make an assumption like that. Just wondering why you do.

——————————————
Well because I think the coaches will continue to watch the tape
and learn from the tape, and make adjustments.

I think a veteran like Welker in the receiving corp might help.

And i think part of the problem is probably youth and communication
on the OLine. I dont think Foles has had much time, and I dont think
he trusts the Oline.

…

…this is ‘not’ a ‘bad team’ in my view.

w
v

Thanks, WV. Appreciate the response.

Now, I agree. This is not a bad team. It’s a 9-7; 8-8 team. It’s probably a bit better than average.

I guess the question is, is that an appropriate return on the investment in Fisher over 4 seasons?

And a couple of things in specifics. First, I see virtually no evidence of potential in the Ram passing game. Foles looks really, really bad. I simply don’t believe a genuinely good QB looks like this. Britt and Cook flash at times, but both have shown themselves over their careers to be flakes. Quick? Bailey? Both seem to be shrinking, not growing.

And, see, that’s the thing. You mention coaches. Well, this coaching staff has had Quick and Bailey and Britt and Cook for years. And they are getting worse, not better. Where is there any evidence that this coaching staff has any capacity to get quality performance out of these guys except for once in a while? Hell, Fisher is widely known as a guy who struggles to coach a passing attack, even when he had a genuinely quality QB at TENN.

You know, this whole thing of coaching is a strange matter. People expect performance due to talent, but then they talk about relying on coaches to overcome weak roster areas, and they often show a blind faith in the magic of time to improve units that remain stuck in mediocrity … or worse.

My friend, you are one who does hold a coaching staff responsible from year to year. Last year was Year 3. This year is Year 4.

And the best Fisher can do is talk as if the offense needs time to work out the kinks.

The fact is that Fisher has brought in … J Long, Cook, Britt, Quick, Tavon, Stedman, Foles, and the youngsters on the OL. He re-signed Saffold when OAK knew the guy had suspect shoulders. He let Barksdale go. Those are all his acquisitions and decisions. He OWNS THIS BLEEDING OFFENSE! IT’S YEAR 4. And we are STILL hearing him blather on about how they need to solve basic problems that nearly all NFL offenses solve on a routine basis.

No, this is not a bad team. But Fisher to me has no track record that suggests his staff is going to be able to solve passing game challenges in 2015 or 2016.

Ah, well …