Bill Maher last night

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  • #65365
    Zooey
    Participant

    #65389
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I saw that and it’s very true.

    I found it principally weak to let Milo off as easy as he did, let him tell the outright lies he did about Transgendered people he did as well as other outrageous lies, NOT know anything about the outrageously racist shit he did to Leslie Jones.

    I get why he sees Milo as a “kindred spirit” of sorts. Bill Maher came up through the nascent standup scene in the late 70s and early 80s where to make any money, people wanted to control what you said. And he loved college students a lot and did TONS of colleges up until the current (and I’d argue bad) climate on college campuses across the nation where almost NO comics can perform now of ANY ilk because comics mine humor from pain and refine that and deliver a product…and on today’s college campuses, it’s simply NOT ACCEPTABLE to use humor to address pain. And that “divorce” seems to have really struck Maher hard because he mentions not playing college campuses often and really takes issue with why. And on things like micro-aggressions, as a white male who went to Columbia, although I get it that he wasn’t rich and had to sell pot to help pay for school…while he gets what white privilege is, at least in the abstract, he doesn’t seem to understand how that manifests. It’s not always a punch in the face.

    So, when he doesn’t do his homework on Milo and all he sees is “free speech”, then I can understand why he just thinks it’s all a matter of degrees.

    Except it isn’t.

    Milo is a scam. He’s a morally repugnant scam artist and he uses provocation and the infliction of emotional abuse to leverage more… for himself (if words couldn’t do harm as he suggests, then emotional abuse wouldn’t be a thing. It is very much a thing, of course and he knows this).

    He doesn’t advocate for any cause, others glom onto his provocations for their nefarious purposes (see: Richard Spencer). He doesn’t advocate for any principle beyond the freedom for himself to advocate more…for himself. The “free speech” he advocates is a dystopian nightmare of discourse akin to a verbal Thunderdome where he profits by provoking people, thus bringing more willing combatants to the arena.

    He’s actively using hate in all of its ugly forms to enrich himself. That he uses “free speech” is merely a guise no less transparent than if he put on Groucho glasses as a disguise.

    I’m glad that at least Larry Wilmore stood up to the bullshit when everyone else was letting Milo just get a pass, but it should never have happened in the first place. Jeremy Scahill had it right by saying that it’s not shutting Milo up or out to NOT provide him with a high-profile venue to spill his brand of hate (a brand that he’s spent years cultivating meticulously). That he went unchallenged with his hate on Trans people was unconscionable. As I tweeted, I think Huffpo jumped the shark, but Huffpo Queer Voices nailed in their fact check of Milo’s blatant lies about Trans people.

    I realize that Bill Maher doesn’t have the rigor of shows like the Daily Show had or John Oliver has or the Late Show has, but damn, that was some lazy shit that allowed a hateful, self-hating malignant narcissist (is there something besides lead in the water causing this?) to go relatively unfettered.

    My youngest is Trans and they knew not to watch because Bill Maher doesn’t challenge lies often enough (we’re that odd house that DOES. We jump on that shit, so it’s hard to watch things like the news and certain comedy shows…). Hearing “that’s reasonable” to a lie would have been really hurtful.

    As for the OP, yeah, the Magic R is real. Too bad many of his fans won’t have seen it because it was on the “Milo” episode that I know many fans refused to watch. Worse, if they watch the clips and see Maher actually agree with some of the Trans lies…oof.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Mackeyser.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #65393
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Maher’s fallen for the right-wing frame when it comes to “free speech.” And it’s bogus and filled with impossible contradictions.

    It’s not a violation of someone’s “free speech” to bar them from speaking at a university. No one has a pre-ordained “right” to be chosen as a paid speaker in a public venue — on TV, on Radio, etc. etc. If it were a “right,” than everyone NOT chosen has had their rights violated. As in, all of us, minus the one person picked. It would, however, be a violation of said “right” if wherever that person went in public, he or she was silenced.

    It’s a bit like saying, in a singing competition that starts out with thousands, that everyone who didn’t make it to the finale had their “free speech rights” violated.

    Another angle on this, from the political right: When a few newspapers decided to dump George Will after his appalling columns on campus rape culture, “conservatives” screamed that his “free speech rights” had been violated. This was complete nonsense. He was syndicated at the time in something like 400 media outlets, and he lost a few. No one whose column appears in several hundred newspapers is being “silenced,” etc. etc.

    And, of course, there’s the “free speech rights” of the people who protested Yiannopoulos. The political right is rather selective in how it divvies those rights out and about, and Maher shouldn’t aid and abet them.

    #65399
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    Maher can be a valuable ally of the left at a time when there are so few that are charismatic and popular and can reach such a large audience. However there are many things about him that I don’t like including his take on PC, white privilege, feminism, Islamophobia, etc.

    #65409
    Zooey
    Participant

    I’m no fan of Maher, and I don’t get HBO anyway, so I never watch him. What I have seen makes me agree with Nittany. But Maher has a libertarian streak that sometimes intersects with my leftist libertarian perspective, and this rant is a good one. I have often marveled at that Magic R. The transparent hypocrisy of the right, and the free pass they are given on these issues is mind-numbing. It would be a matter of bemusement if it weren’t for the fact that these a-holes have taken over the government to the extent now that a total vice grip on the country is now within reach. In addition to letting Rs off the hook for absolutely everything, the vast majority of voters do not seem to notice that they oppose R positions on a wide range of important issues. Health care, education, the environment, social security, net neutrality, consumer protections, and so on. But they keep voting for them, and excusing their crimes.

    As for Milo, I first heard of him only a few months ago, and have never read anything he has written, and this show was the first time I ever saw/heard him. And I don’t get it at all. The guy didn’t have anything to say. There was no coherent intellectual statement. I was expecting some sort of abominable fascist screed (I also saw the interview with him, and the panel discussion), and the guy just struck me as that awful, loud, annoying guy three tables over at the pub whose noisy ejaculations define the evening for everyone present. What Mackeyser said seems right to me based on that small exposure to him. He seems like a self-serving provocateur, a flamboyantly gay version of Ann Coulter. Actually, not even THAT coherent.

    #65412
    PA Ram
    Participant

    It is a good rant.

    I have always wondered why the right gets to own God, flag and country.

    If a Republican is in office and you oppose him you’re unAmerican.

    If a Democrat is in office and you support them you are working against “American values”.

    I can tell you this though–the Republican party has become a PARTY FIRST party above anything regarding country. If what is happening now doesn’t prove that I don’t know what will.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #65413
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    It is a good rant.

    I have always wondered why the right gets to own God, flag and country.

    If a Republican is in office and you oppose him you’re unAmerican.

    If a Democrat is in office and you support them you are working against “American values”.

    I can tell you this though–the Republican party has become a PARTY FIRST party above anything regarding country. If what is happening now doesn’t prove that I don’t know what will.

    I think it stems from the fact that Republicans see things as black or white. Democrats often recognize there are shades of grey. Because Republicans have a simplistic, unambiguous outlook on things, they don’t have to study an issue before making a decision about it. They appear decisive, whereas a Democrat who takes a more measured, reasoned approach is weak. Family values, God, patriotism…these are presented as black and white issues and thus are owned by the Republicans.

    #65426
    Zooey
    Participant

    I think it stems from the fact that Republicans see things as black or white. Democrats often recognize there are shades of grey. Because Republicans have a simplistic, unambiguous outlook on things, they don’t have to study an issue before making a decision about it. They appear decisive, whereas a Democrat who takes a more measured, reasoned approach is weak. Family values, God, patriotism…these are presented as black and white issues and thus are owned by the Republicans.

    I would expect studies to confirm that they also lean more towards authoritarian, hierarchical structures.

    #65433
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    What’d you all think about the micro-aggression vid?

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #65436
    Zooey
    Participant

    What’d you all think about the micro-aggression vid?

    I liked it. I understood most of that before seeing the video, but I did see myself for the first time in one of those micro-aggressions…I sometimes ask people about their heritage because I’m just plain curious, and that isn’t confined to people of color necessarily. I never ask out of any other reason, but I can see how the question would be a mosquito bite regardless of my intentions.

    #65437
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Authoritarians, yes. I’ve had many a discussion with self-proclaimed (right)libertarians who, almost without exceptions, immediately assume leftist beliefs are hyper-authoritarian, even “Stalinist.” Ironically, with zero exceptions, I’ve just never seen a right-winger score well on actual (Adorno’s) F-scale tests, or those based upon it like the political compass. Zero exceptions. We leftists pretty much max out on the anti-authoritarian scale. Righties tend to score in the totalitarian sectors, or no better than “centrist” on the issue.

    http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm

    Another key? The way that magic R works is that they’ve “otherized” so many different groups of Americans, they believe they can trash them and still be eminently “patriotic” or “pro-American.” They really don’t see large portions of Americans as American at all. Only white Christian conservatives get that designation. That’s basically how they can reconcile this . . . including threats of secession, Russian hacking, etc. etc.

    IOKIYAAR.

    #65485
    Ozoneranger
    Participant

    Delete..wrong thread.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Ozoneranger.
    #65593
    TSRF
    Participant

    So who’s going to watch Bill tonight? I am. Can’t wait. I know he caught a lot of flak last week for having Milo on, but look what happened to the sad wanker since. Not saying there is a cause and effect between being on Real Time and crashing and burning, but not saying there isn’t either.

    #65600
    Zooey
    Participant

    So who’s going to watch Bill tonight? I am. Can’t wait. I know he caught a lot of flak last week for having Milo on, but look what happened to the sad wanker since. Not saying there is a cause and effect between being on Real Time and crashing and burning, but not saying there isn’t either.

    Maybe he could have Trump on.

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