ag v zn on the OL

InvaderRam wrote:

i don’t agree that it’s easy to fix an ol

I don’t either, taken in the abstract.

What I am saying is that it’s easy to fix THIS OL. All they need is a center in a guard, and they have any number of ways of acquiring good ones for both spots. That is because, assuming they sign Barksdale, they already have 3 set pieces–JB, Saffold, and Robinson.

So is it difficult to go out and get a center and a guard?

One way to ask that is to I look at the top 12 graded guards and top 12 graded centers according to PFF, and check into how they’re acquired.

To do that I distinguish between high 1st round picks, let’s say 15 and above, and lower 1st round picks. I also use the “ronin” category–a young guy who bounces between teams in his first couple of years, like Barksdale. And finally I distinguish between high-market FAs (like Wells and Long) and low-market FAs who come in less expensive than those guys.

CENTER: 4 lower 1st round picks (18th, 21st, 29th, 31st); 2 2nd round picks; a 5th round pick; 2 6th round picks; 1 low-market free agent (avg. 0.795 a year), and 1 converted guard/ronin type.

I will say this about center. If someone is taken after round 2 or comes in as a ronin, usually they develop on the bench before starting. So this list says that if you need a center NOW, you need to use a low 1st or a 2nd round pick.

GUARD: 3 lower 1st round picks (16th, 20th, 27th); 2 2nd round picks; 4 3rd round picks; 2 4th round picks; 1 trade using a 7th round pick.

JackPMiller wrote:

I don’t see a Guard or Tackle worth taking that high, unless we trade down, which is possible, because we only have 5 draft picks, barring any comp picks.

Yeah they could trade down. This then also raises the question, would they start 2 rookies on a line that already included Robinson?

InvaderRam wrote:

as far as drafting one high, i think this happens to be the year that drafting one in the first round just makes sense. it’s supposed to be a strong year for the offensive line….at this point. offensive line in the first round just makes sense. it’s a position of strength in the draft that would fill a huge need.

BTW I should add, I have no objection to that. If they for example take a tackle high and play him at guard, I can see that…it’s one of those things where I don’t prefer it, but I wouldn’t sulk and complain if they did. I get that approach too.

Though again do they start 2 rookies on a line that includes Robinson.

InvaderRam wrote:

i don’t think you start two rookies. my hope is that barrett jones can finally step in at guard. drafting another linemen lower would be with the idea that he gets a year or two to develop.

Though, again, there are any number of ways to develop a guard who can play, and be good enough to play his part in an overall good OL.

Maybe Bond or someone else they already have (Jones?) develops. Maybe they find a Barksdale. They could sign a low-market young FA who just needs a Boudreau to turn the corner (that’s the way they found Dahl in 2008 in Atlanta). Maybe a right tackle who is also in the ronin/low market FA position signs, and converts to guard. They could sign a more high-market FA guard.

They could surprise and start 2 rookies along with Robinson.

Or they could use lottsa different ways to scour up a player at guard. Maybe 2, so there’s depth.

Which approach should they take?

IMO…all of them. Simultaneously.

Agamemnon wrote:

That is a fair summary, zn. Everyone else is welcome to add their thoughts.

Oh I see, I get the picture. I know what THIS is.

Board war.

Dak wrote:

A lot depends on who is available in free agency. Will there be a “bargain” type of guard who could start for this team? My sense is if there’s someone that good in free agency, it will cost a premium. The Rams have overspent for interior O-linemen for many years, it seems, and haven’t gotten back the investment. Joseph was a bargain player who we want to replace. Wells was an expensive free agent we want to replace. Barksdale will cost the Rams, and likely eat into any type of money they want to spend on the offensive line.

So, I wonder, can Person come through as a guard? Is he the answer there? Because that would be ideal. You already have him, and you can plug him in. Robinson has to improve, and he should make a big jump next year. So, that leaves center. If the Rams can find a center high in the draft, I’m fine with that. Perhaps they trade down in the 1st round, like was suggested in this thread. If not, you may just have to over-draft the position if the right player is available. Or, the Rams could trade up in the 2nd round if the right center is available.

Other depth guys who could come through (or not) include Bond and Jones.

But either way, you can find lower market FAs who take to the coaching and do come through. Basically, that’s what McCollum and Nutten were. So that, to me, is still part of the mix.

The best thing is to do a little bit of everything. That’s how Vermeil built a line. Lower draft picks (Miller and Tucker), a high draft pick, someone else’s cuts (Gruttaduaria), high market FA (Timmerman), low market FA (Nutten). Etc. Do it all at once. (Vermeil really did do it all at once.) Vermeil even got rid of higher draft picks to do it (Gandy and Wiegert).