Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › people on Stafford, post super bowl
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February 15, 2022 at 3:22 pm #136502znModerator
It was a hot topic before the #SuperBowl and now that he's won, the chatter surrounding Matthew Stafford and the @ProFootballHOF is scorching hot:#RamsHouse#NFL pic.twitter.com/wajJqGry3A
— Rich Eisen Show (@RichEisenShow) February 15, 2022
February 15, 2022 at 3:31 pm #136503ZooeyModerator“There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”
~ Matt Stafford, The Picture of Dorian Gray
February 15, 2022 at 4:17 pm #136506znModerator<header class=”entry__header noskim”>
Why Matthew Stafford’s no-look pass to Cooper Kupp was a Hall of Fame play
February 15, 2022 3:58 pm ET</header>
The debate is rolling thick and fast right now as to whether Matthew Stafford is a Hall-of-Famer after the Rams won Super Bowl LVI. It’s a discussion I’d rather table until Stafford does a few more things in his estimable career (or not), but I have no doubt that when his team needed him the most to do something incredible against the Bengals’ defense in the fourth quarter of that game, Stafford came through with a ridiculous throw that should be in Canton (in some form or fashion) right now.
There’s already a decent library of ungodly Super Bowl throws, but it’s hard to to any better than this. With 3:06 left in the game, and the Bengals up 20-16, the Rams had second-and-7 from the Cincinnati 46-yard line. Stafford needed Kupp on this play, and he made that clear before it happened.
"Might be the best no-looker we got all year."
Stafford and Kupp's chemistry is insane 🤯 @InsideTheNFL pic.twitter.com/ujAkhelL15
— NFL Films (@NFLFilms) February 15, 2022
“Nice job digging in on that cheese,” Stafford told Kupp after the drive ended in Los Angeles’ game-winning touchdown. “Might be the best no-looker we got all year.”
It’s hard to argue that point. Even Patrick Mahomes, the current master of the off-platform, no-look pass, was impressed.
The dots show the conflict Cincinnati’s defense was in on that side, with Kupp heading over intermediate coverage, and tight end Brycen Hopkins taking the sit route underneath.
The 22-yard slant to Kupp. pic.twitter.com/63sLffIjJc
— Bill Barnwell (@billbarnwell) February 14, 2022
The overhead view shows the Bengals in Cover-3, with safety Von Bell as the robber underneath. After the game, Kupp brought up the fact that the Rams’ frequent use of no-huddle in that last drive forced the Bengals to stay in zone coverage — then, it was up to Kupp to find the gaps in those zones.
“[Head coach] Sean [McVay] did a great job — we were in a hurry-up in that last drive to keep them from setting some rushes, but also to keep them in zone calls, where you can put some pressure on them, and get some calls they feel comfortable playing,” Kupp said. “Zone some stuff off, and allow Matthew and I to find soft spots in there.”
On that play, though, Kupp was as surprised as anybody.
From the end zone view, you can see the extemporaneous nature of the throw and catch far more clearly.
The view Mahomes reacted to shows just how nuts it really was. If Bell doesn’t fall for the banana in the tailpipe — if he stays up top to react — he’s got at least a deflection, if not a game-deciding interception. Stafford had to have stones the size of two mansions to even attempt that throw into such tight coverage. He’d already thrown two interceptions in the Super Bowl, and he led the league with 20 picks thrown in the regular and postseason combined. We were a few Von Bell steps away from an entirely different discussion regarding Stafford’s legacy. But Stafford’s ability to move defenders with his eyes and his specific location, and his faith in Kupp, won the day.
“Yeah, they were playing a tough coverage for the play, to be honest with you,” Stafford said from Disneyland after the fact, sitting next to Kupp and Aaron Donald. “They had a safety [Bell] inserting into the right spot, and I just tried to move him enough to give Coop a chance to get behind him — move him with my eyes and my body, and was able to get it done. Great job by Cooper, trusting me there. I’m going to put it in a good spot, and he went in there and caught it, and made a big play.”
As ESPN’s Dan Orlovsky (Stafford’s teammate in Detroit in 2015, and the Lions’ primary quarterback in 2008, the year before Stafford was drafted first overall) pointed out in his own breakdown of the play, Stafford did a brilliant job of putting Bell on a string, and leading Bell where he needed Bell to go.
The 3 plays that won the @ramsNFL the #SuperBowl just so happens have @cooperkupp in all 3@getupespn pic.twitter.com/pyQBJTvZed
— Dan Orlovsky (@danorlovsky7) February 14, 2022
There are players who are able to make the biggest and best plays in the most important situations of their professional lives. We always wondered if Matthew Stafford would become such a player. Now, there is no doubt. When the Rams needed him most, Stafford came through with the gutsiest, almost stupidest, and in the end, most impactful throw he’s made in his 13-year career.
Whether that gets Stafford himself into Canton is a separate discussion, but the throw was Canton-worthy from the second it was completed.
February 15, 2022 at 10:46 pm #136528InvaderRamModeratorthere’s a lot of talk about whether stafford is a hall of famer. well for one thing his career is far from over. he’s got a chance to put up some big numbers. i was just looking at it 15 minutes ago. it should get very interesting if he decides to extend with the rams.
but also. how does a quarterback shine on a team like the lions? there’s questions about why he never made pro bowls or all-pro teams. well troy aikman made no all pro teams and 6 pro bowls to stafford’s one pro bowl playing on a star studded team. and he makes the hall of fame?
and before anyone says well barry sanders and calvin johnson made multiple pro bowls and all pro teams as lions, it’s different for a qb. qbs on losing teams are just viewed differently than other position players. i could be wrong about that.
i think that if stafford plays… seven more years with sean mcvay as his head head coach. i think that it won’t be a question anymore.
February 15, 2022 at 11:08 pm #136530ZooeyModeratorRight now? He may get in, but not immediately. He would be debated.
Seven more years with McVay?
He’s in.
Probably 3 more years.
After this Super Bowl stuff dies down, and people get bored and start looking at 2nd tier questions, people are going to start looking more carefully at his Detroit years. And I don’t know what that examination will reveal, exactly, because I sure didn’t watch him play in Detroit, but a man who has those stats while never winning is probably going to get a more favorable review. I would think.
If he retired today? He might get in several years after eligibility.
But his trajectory is HOF. If he is a stock, I’m buying.
February 15, 2022 at 11:37 pm #136532HerzogParticipantimagine if he gets Kupp, Woods, and OBJ next year. I mean just freaking imagine that.
And I really believe his mid season breakdown was just him trying to do too much….which he clearly learned and stopped doing.
If he has a whole year of not trying to do too much….his best years might been front of him.
February 15, 2022 at 11:49 pm #136533ZooeyModeratorAnd that’s right when Woods got hurt, so that didn’t help.
They adjusted. He adjusted. And he was clicking with OBJ at the end.
And you left out Higbee.
An offseason with Woods, OBJ, Kupp, and Higbee? Sign me up for that spectacle.
February 20, 2022 at 4:43 pm #136808HerzogParticipantOh yeah….Higbee….I mean it would be insane
February 20, 2022 at 7:45 pm #136818znModeratorAnd I really believe his mid season breakdown was just him trying to do too much….which he clearly learned and stopped doing. If he has a whole year of not trying to do too much….his best years might been front of him.
There was also a narrative, which I think is true, that earlier in the seaon McV relied more on MS just slinging it and cut back on the jet sweeps, motion, and play action. Teams adjusted to that and the ones that could tee off on the Rams usually solid but sometimes physically manhandled OL took advantage of that. As a response McV put back in more of the play action and so on and relied less on MS just slinging it from start to finish.
A flaw I thought I saw with MS may relate to this. Underneath passes were not always as effective with him because he would wait a beat too long before checking down and that set up the underneath receivers to be stopped for fewer yards. That comes from him pressing and trying to look downfield for something to break. I would prefer it if he had a top inner clock and saw immediately that he should throw underneath before giving the defense time to spot it.
This of course all said just with the interests of painting the whole picture. I am not trying to downplay Stafford or to paint him in a bad light. He and McV both are both great but they both still have some flaws in their composition. Sometimes there were games where that got the better of them. But–they had a great stretch drive when it counted and MS is becoming one of the great 4th quarter qbs of all time.
February 20, 2022 at 10:56 pm #136830ZooeyModeratorThere was also a narrative, which I think is true, that earlier in the seaon McV relied more on MS just slinging it and cut back on the jet sweeps, motion, and play action. Teams adjusted to that and the ones that could tee off on the Rams usually solid but sometimes physically manhandled OL took advantage of that. As a response McV put back in more of the play action and so on and relied less on MS just slinging it from start to finish.
A flaw I thought I saw with MS may relate to this. Underneath passes were not always as effective with him because he would wait a beat too long before checking down and that set up the underneath receivers to be stopped for fewer yards. That comes from him pressing and trying to look downfield for something to break. I would prefer it if he had a top inner clock and saw immediately that he should throw underneath before giving the defense time to spot it.
I recall reading Stafford stating that he doesn’t like pre-snap motion, and iirc, he was not a big fan of play action, either, although he was far from bad at it. The play action I am less sure about, but I am sure I read he doesn’t like motion.
I also recall reading that QBs who get traded don’t far all that well, historically, in their first season with the new team, and do better in following seasons.
Okay, that said…I also believe Stafford improved as the season wore on, and that the Rams used more motion and PA as the season wore on. So what we have here is a QB on a new team who is adjusting to a new system, and a coach that is figuring that out, and a new WR added mid-stream as another WR the QB was just getting used to goes out. And all that got better and better as the season progressed, and it peaked at the right time. That’s just what happened, as far as I can tell.
All of which should excite Rams fans for what could be in store for this team next year. Stafford is going to get better with both the system, and his WRs (and TEs and RBs). He was already hitting Henderson. Give him time with Akers, and a second season with Kupp, Woods, and Higbee, with OBJ hitting the fold later, and a second year working with McVay, and we could see some nonsense happen on the field.
And to restate my opinion on McVay, I saw growth this year. Real growth. He has learned from his mistakes, and he is a wiser coach right now. That jet sweep you referenced…that call was made precisely at the moment it helped most. There was no better call he could have made on 4th and 1 at that moment. Cincy hadn’t seen it; they weren’t ready for it. And it kept a 15-play drive alive with everything at stake.
I am bullish on the Rams’ offense. I think Matthew not Matt Stafford and Cooper Kupp are a very big problem for the rest of the NFL, and a full year with Akers, Woods, and a late-arriving OBJ? Goodness. I want to see that. Please, Lord, let us watch that.
February 21, 2022 at 10:34 am #136839InvaderRamModeratorOkay, that said…I also believe Stafford improved as the season wore on, and that the Rams used more motion and PA as the season wore on. So what we have here is a QB on a new team who is adjusting to a new system, and a coach that is figuring that out, and a new WR added mid-stream as another WR the QB was just getting used to goes out. And all that got better and better as the season progressed, and it peaked at the right time.
and having said that stafford still finished the season third in ypa, second in tds, fourth in total qbr, and sixth in passer rating. so if he does improve, it could be something to behold. one thing he definitely needs to get better at is consistency. his lows were very low. but that might just be something you have to live with with matt.
the only thing i worry about is how they replace whit. i’m skeptical noteboom is the answer, but he might be their only option.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by InvaderRam.
February 22, 2022 at 6:03 pm #136852wvParticipantdunno if this has been posted: “deep nerdy knowledge of football”
February 22, 2022 at 9:39 pm #136863znModeratorFebruary 22, 2022 at 9:59 pm #136864InvaderRamModeratordunno if this has been posted: “deep nerdy knowledge of football”
one bit i thought was interesting from that video. von miller said to mcvay at a night club, “come get me”. how can they let him go at this point? a miller donald combo for the next 2 years would be awesome.
February 24, 2022 at 2:04 pm #136904znModeratorFebruary 24, 2022 at 2:05 pm #136905znModeratorFebruary 24, 2022 at 6:05 pm #136910znModeratorDespite the early, ints, when it was the 4th quarter and time to win the game, Stafford balled out. No ints in the 4th, nothing but tds and game winning drives. pic.twitter.com/OV8Dq09UiO
— Cornell (@gqscholar) February 24, 2022
March 1, 2022 at 9:24 am #137104znModeratorWhich QBs have performed better/worse in the postseason relative to their regular season efficiency?
Guys who famously caught fire on top (Stafford, Flacco, Eli); playoff underperformers on the bottom (Gannon, Peyton, McNair, Luck, McNabb).#nflverse pic.twitter.com/Hf9yIZhKFF
— Tucker Boynton (@Tucker_TnL) February 28, 2022
March 2, 2022 at 10:22 pm #137189znModeratorMatthew Stafford Mini Movie || Long Journey to the Championship
March 22, 2022 at 5:28 am #137837znModerator“The Matthew Stafford hype is getting a little out of control”@PFF_Sam wants everyone to pump the brakes this offseason pic.twitter.com/XBde8ehI8q
— PFF (@PFF) July 14, 2021
March 22, 2022 at 9:04 am #137839znModeratorLike I’ve said before, AR12 is a great QB… but he should be more accomplished by this point in his career to be considered one of the GOATS… pic.twitter.com/Cc8atmdFL6
— RAMS REPORT🗯 (@RamsNFLReport) March 21, 2022
April 4, 2022 at 1:24 am #138165znModeratorfrom NFL 2022 QB Gravitron: What advanced metrics say about Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Patrick Mahomes and others
Forget any of the numbers — Stafford will live in Rams royalty. That said, the numbers were pretty good in 2021. Stafford’s 0.17 EPA ranked third in 2021 behind only Rodgers and Mahomes. But Stafford did throw 17 interceptions last season, which pushed his 2021 IQR down to 102.3, his lowest in the last three seasons. The Rams are in great shape with Stafford, though.
April 4, 2022 at 10:30 am #138166wvParticipantWe know Stafford throws picks, but i wonder why the 4th quarter is usually different? The picks go way down, as i understand it.
I also wonder if the INT thing can be fixed, or would ‘fixing it’ ruin
his aggressive-gunslinger approach which is part of what won them a title,
in the end. (think of the tampa game)
w
v
April 4, 2022 at 5:23 pm #138179HramParticipantHe goes into his dark place and the end of fourth quarters in competitive games.
There are no interceptions allowed on the dark side.
April 4, 2022 at 6:37 pm #138180znModeratorWe know Stafford throws picks, but i wonder why the 4th quarter is usually different?
I don’t think anyone really knows yet. Some people just focus when the game’s on the line. But this is unusual. We have seen clutch qb play before but who throws a no-look pass in the final, “must win now” drive of a superbowl?
We do have a long great history of great clutch wins. Warner to Proehl then Warner to Bruce. Bulger had a few comeback wins (at one point he had the highest percentage of wins in that situation of any qb). Goff in New Orleans. Stafford had 3 in a row culminating in the super bowl.
April 4, 2022 at 7:33 pm #138186InvaderRamModeratorwell against the niners he threw what absolutely should have been an interception. if that niners defensive player catches that ball, this offseason would be very different.
April 4, 2022 at 7:38 pm #138187InvaderRamModeratorand that niners defensive back who inexplicably spears obj while he’s on the ground.
i mean i’ll take it. but the rams got some breaks. the niners were beating the rams up that game.
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