Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › All-Time Career Sack Leaders, Updated with John Turney's pre-1982 Numbers
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July 1, 2018 at 4:57 pm #87762znModerator
The NFL’s All-Time Career Sack Leaders, Updated with John Turney’s pre-1982 Numbers
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Unofficially, Sack Record Doesn’t Add Up
JOHN BRANCHNOV, 2006
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J., Nov. 3 — To hear the Giants tell it, with one more quarterback sack defensive end Michael Strahan will break the franchise’s official all-time sack record.
One problem: The former linebacker Lawrence Taylor has more sacks.
Officially, Strahan and Taylor each have 132½ sacks. But because the National Football League did not recognize sacks as a statistic until 1982, Taylor’s official total does not include the 9½ sacks he had as a rookie in 1981.
The 9½ sacks are not contested. They are just not counted.
It is a somewhat arbitrary quirk of N.F.L. statistics. After all, it was the attention on Taylor and the Jets’ Sack Exchange pass rush in 1981 that pushed the N.F.L. to include sacks in its record book, according to John Turney, a member of the Pro Football Researchers Association.
So the N.F.L. decided to count them — beginning in 1982. Bruce Smith holds the record with 200. Reggie White has 198, followed by Kevin Greene with 160.
As the Hall of Fame defensive end Deacon Jones once reportedly said, “Since when does ‘all-time’ begin in 1982?”
The issue has long annoyed Jones, and long fascinated Turney. Since 1993, Turney has pored over play-by-play accounts of games played decades ago, adding up sacks that no one had counted before. He studied game tape at N.F.L. Films to fill gaps in the data.
The research never ends; Turney occasionally catches a replay of an old game on television and wonders if a sack that he sees was recorded. He goes and checks.
In a telephone interview Friday, Turney said he had “no beef” with starting in 1982.
“I don’t know why they won’t grandfather folks in who were playing in 1981, “ he said. “You can find sacks back to 1970 in a very accurate way.”
For example, Turney has calculated that Jones, whose career ended in 1974, had 173½ sacks, and the longtime Rams defensive end Jack Youngblood had 151½.
Turney’s research undoubtedly helped Youngblood reach the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001, 17 years after he left the game. But his biography on the Hall of Fame’s Web site, like the one for Jones, does not mention how many sacks he had. Only under “additional career statistics” is Youngblood credited with 24 sacks — his total after 1981.
“They used to pay me for those things when I was a rookie in 1971,” Youngblood said in a telephone interview. “They kept track of them.”
In the Giants’ news media guide, a list of the “Top Ten Sack Leaders” shows Taylor with 142, following by Strahan, then Jim Katcavage, who played from 1956 to 1968, with 96½.
The Giants, obviously, know how many sacks everyone has. But in the guide, the team notes in parentheses that sacks are an “official statistic only since 1982.”
Which leaves the Giants, and particularly Strahan, in an awkward place. Strahan said Wednesday that he would be “ecstatic” to break the record. When it was pointed out last week that not all of Taylor’s sacks were counted, Strahan, long reverential of Taylor’s accomplishments, joked that it was O.K., since he did not expect to stop accumulating sacks after his next one.
Whenever Strahan gets his next sack, he will become, according to the Giants, the official record holder.
But Taylor will still hold what Youngblood called “the real unofficial record.”
July 1, 2018 at 5:05 pm #87763znModerator7 Rams on the list, including 3 in the top 5.
Jones, 3rd (173.5)
Greene, 4th (160)
JY, 5th (150.5)
Leslie O’Neal, 19th (132.5)
Bacon, 21st (130)
Carter, 43rd (104.5)
Dryer, 46th (103)…
- This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by zn.
July 2, 2018 at 9:33 am #87779nittany ramModerator6 Rams on the list, including 3 in the top 5.
Jones, 3rd (173.5)
Greene, 4th (160)
JY, 5th (150.5)
Bacon, 21st (130)
Carter, 43rd (104.5)
Dryer, 46th (103)Leslie O’Neal is on the list tied at #19. He was a Ram briefly.
July 2, 2018 at 9:43 am #87780znModeratorLeslie O’Neal is on the list tied at #19. He was a Ram briefly.
Yeah I forgot about ole LO’N. 96-97, 17 sacks. He signed with Brooks and then the next year found himself in a Vermeil training camp. He left after 97 and was replaced by Wistrom. That was LO’N’s last harrah–next 2 years he was with the Chiefs and didn’t do that much. Then he was done.
Good catch. I am going to edit my list and add him.
The list cuts off at 100 so it doesn’t show Larry Brooks. REVISED BY EDIT. Brooks, in spite of missing time with injuries, had 74.5 sacks, including an 11 sack season in 74 and a 14.5 sack season in 76. That’s doing as well as Donald’s best 2 years in one year (74) and better than Donald in the other (76).’
I should do a complete list that includes all Rams great sack artists, including those who don’t make the 100 sack cut-off. For example Leonard Little (87.5). Robert Quinn (62.5). D’Marco Farr had a couple of strong seasons (95, 11.5; 99, 8.5). Etc.
- This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by zn.
June 28, 2020 at 11:04 pm #117297znModeratorBump.
Old but valuable stuff in this thread.
But it comes up because RamsWire listed Rams sack leaders using only the official stats, which started in 1982.
Here’s what they have:
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from Rams’ top 20 all-time leaders in sacks: How close is Donald to No. 1?
https://theramswire.usatoday.com/gallery/nfl-rams-sack-leaders-history-aaron-donald/
it … became an official stat in 1982, so players from the ’70s and earlier don’t have any sacks to their name – including all-time greats like Jones and Olsen. That being said, we ranked the top 20 [official] sack leaders in Rams history. Donald is close to the top and could be No. 1 by the end of the 2020 season.
20. Tyoka Jackson, 2001-2005
18.5 sacks19. Reggie Doss, 1978-1987
20.0 sacks18. Shawn Miller, 1984-1989
21.0 sacks17. Doug Reed, 1984-1990
22.5 sacks16. Michael Brockers, 2012-present
23.0 sacksT14. Jack Youngblood, 1971-1984
24.0 sacksT14. Sean Gilbert, 1992-1995
24.0 sacksT12. William Hayes, 2012-2016
26.5 sacksT12. Mel Owens, 1981-1989
26.5 sacks11. James Hall, 2007-2011
30.0 sacks10. D’Marco Farr, 1994-2000
36.5 sacks9. Mike Wilcher, 1983-1990
38.5 sacks8. Grant Wistom, 1998-2003
41.5 sacks7. Gary Jeter, 1983-1988
45.0 sacks6. Chris Long, 2008-2015
54.5 sacks5. Robert Quinn, 2011-2017
62.5 sacks4. Kevin Carter, 1995-2000
62.5 sacks3. Aaron Donald, 2014-present
72.0 sacks2. Kevin Greene, 1985-1992
72.5 sacks1. Leonard Little, 1998-2009
87.5 sacksJune 29, 2020 at 9:38 am #117316znModeratorHere are the top 12, including both official and unofficial stats. I do career sacks, not just sacks with the Rams.
Deacon Jones – 173.5
Kevin Greene – 160
Jack Youngblood – 151.5
Coy Bacon – 130
Kevin Carter – 104.5
Fred Dryer – 103
Merlin Olsen – 94
Leonard Little – 87.5
Robert Quinn – 80.5
Larry Brooks – 74.5
Aaron Donald – 72
Chris Long – 70==
LMU93
also look at sacks per game…
1. Deacon Jones- 0.908
2. Aaron Donald- 0.766
3. Jack Youngblood- 0.75
4. Robert Quinn- 0.658
5. Kevin Carter- 0.651
6. Kevin Greene- 0.609
7. Leonard Little- 0.595
8. Gary Jeter- 0.570
9. Leslie O’Neal- 0.548
10. Larry Brooks- 0.523 -
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