Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › CoachO & others on the Rams receivers
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October 3, 2015 at 9:05 pm #31659znModerator
from off the net
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CoachO
Bailey is on the field a whole more than people seem to think he is. But he hasn’t been targeted much. No argument his hands are the most consistent among the WRs. But at some point, we have to stop making excuses for some of these players. “They aren’t using Austin correctly”. “Bailey needs to play more”. This has been the common theme among many posters for the past 2+ seasons.
Now four different QBs later, the same things are being said. Maybe, just maybe it’s on the receivers. Austin is not a polished WR. He’s a gadget type playmaker that they now seem determined to force the offense through. But when his limited production comes from having the ball handed off, it tells me he still isn’t there as a WR.
Bailey gets plenty of snaps. What he doesn’t get is targets. Again, this has been through four different QB somehow not throwing him the ball on any consistent basis.
I am not in any way trying to compare the systems here, but merely comparing the roles these guys need to perform to be successful. Consider Britt and Quick in the same roles as Bruce and Holt. The primary outside receivers who play all three downs. Austin fits the Az-Hakim role with Bailey being Ricky Proehl. It takes all four of them to be performing for ANY any of them to be able to be their best. When the GSOT lost Hakim, then Proehl wasn’t as productive.
Bailey should be that go-to guy on 3rd down. But if he is the only guy that teams fear in that scenario, he will be limited. Austin feeds off the other three. But to try to force the ball to him, just won’t work. He is too inconsistent as a route runner.
The play that sums it up for me occurred last week vs. Pittsburgh. It was a 3rd & 6 I believe and they ran Austin on the “arrow” route that Amendola mastered here. The problem is, instead of driving straight thru the CB, forcing him to react to the route, Austin cut it off after 3 yards, made his move inside before cutting back outside. The CB just let him run the route and then closed on him once he caught the ball. He was bought down after a 3 yard gain and we punted.
Bailey doesn’t have the quickness to even run that route. So there in lies the problem with both.
The lack of consistency has to start with the QB position. That, IMO, has more to do with the slow development of just about every player you mentioned. These guys have had backup caliber QBs pulling the trigger for the better part of their time here. Clemens, Davis and Hill were as much to “blame” for the inconsistent passing game as any receiver on the roster in that time.
How many time last year alone would Britt or Quick be behind the secondary, only to have Davis underthrow them? How many times did Brian Quick run the deep dig route uncovered only to have Clemens not even look at him because he knew he couldn’t throw that pass? How many times has Bailey run a crossing route to have the ball checked down to a RB because they didn’t have the time to let the route develop? This year it’s been three games with a QB who is not nearly as accurate as he needs to be. Again, IMHO, he isn’t comfortable in his reads, and is not getting the ball out “on time”. But he gets a pass from most fans because he’s not Bradford.
It’s actually interesting to me, that Brian Quick is the longest tenured Ram WR being in his 4th season. And that is after losing most of last year, when he finally was showing he belonged on the field.
In terms of the Givens trade, Brian Quick is a much better receiver than Givens on his worst day. The route tree, the physical skill set and overall athleticism isn’t even close. It seems pretty obvious to me anyway, that as soon as Quick got back in the mix, Givens became expendable. Givens was the epitome of a one trick pony, and was easily taken away by simply rolling a safety over the top. From the day he got here, he showed a hesitation to go over the middle. Completing a simple slant to him was an adventure. He was never going to win any contested balls. IMO he was a lesser version of Donnie Avery.
I will be the first to admit that Quick needs to take the next step. But there are a multitude of reasons why he hasn’t had more success. But unlike Givens, I have seen the potential to be a complete WR from the day he showed up. I just don’t think there is any comparison between the two.
Let’s see if getting Quick back has an impact on the overall success of the rest of the group. Theoretically, if Britt and Quick both can post some level of consistency, then Bailey and Austin should get more room.
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October 3, 2015 at 9:12 pm #31661AgamemnonParticipantOctober 4, 2015 at 10:09 am #31682znModeratorfrom off the net
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jrry32
I’m sitting here and watching film to see if the claim that Bailey doesn’t get separation holds any water. Thus far, it doesn’t. I’ve now seen two different plays where Bailey had separation past the first down marker and Foles took a sack. And I just started the Washington game (previously looked at Seattle). When Bailey is on the field, he’s getting enough separation to throw to him. No, he’s not wide open. But this is the NFL. What separates great QBs from averages ones is the ability to trust their WR to make the catch and put the ball in a tight window. Rodgers and James Jones work well together because Rodgers has no issues trusting Jones against tight coverage. Now, Foles isn’t Rodgers but he needs to trust Bailey. When the guy has a step on the defender, give him a chance. Bailey isn’t DeSean Jackson. He’s not going to burn guys by 20 yards. But he’s a guy that will use every inch he has to box out defenders and then outmuscle them for the ball in traffic.
Here are two perfect examples of what I mean:
Stedman is wide open on 3rd down and he’s 5 yards past the sticks. Foles locks onto Tre Mason at the beginning of the play and refuses to move off of that read despite there being absolutely nothing there. On the other side of the field, both Washington DBs cover Tavon Austin and NOBODY covers Stedman Bailey. He is running wide open the entire play and Foles doesn’t give him a second look (or a first look for that matter). Instead, he forces an incompletion in Mason’s vicinity and we get to punt.
I think many of us saw this play in the Seattle game. This is in OT and it’s the third down before we kick the FG that ultimately wins it. This play should have ended the game without forcing us to go on defense. The pass protection is superb but Foles inexplicably decides to run himself into pressure by scrambling out of the pocket. This forces him to throw it away to avoid the sack. If Foles had been patient in the pocket, he has a wide open throwing lane to Bailey once Bailey clears the LB who isn’t even looking at him. Earl Thomas is too deep to stop Bailey from catching the ball and with all the green grass in front of him, Bailey likely takes it in for six.
Now, I realize these are only two plays but I watched every snap Bailey played against Seattle and Washington. There were plays to be made. Bailey could have easily had 4-5 catches against Washington if Foles were on his game. And he could have easily had a bigger line than his 3 catches for 58 yards against Seattle.
October 4, 2015 at 10:54 am #31686ZooeyModerator44.7 Nick Foles QBR in 2015
44.3 Austin Davis QBR in 2014
41.4 Shaun Hill QBR in 2014I am disappointed in Foles so far. And jrry32 has not cheered me up.
October 4, 2015 at 12:07 pm #31687wvParticipantWell i havent read anyone say Stedman “doesn’t get separation” —
I have read people say he doesn’t get ‘targeted’ — which is different.Its still a bit early for ME to say what Foles is or isn’t.
I dont expect much from any QB when they have zero
running game and a Newbie-Oline.I ‘think’ he’ll be ‘fine.’ He’ll drive people crazy
with some inaccurate passes to wide open receivers,
and just when yer ready to cuss him out,
he’ll drive the team down the field at
crunch time. Thats my ‘guess’ as to who
he is, more or less.He’s not a top-five-QB, thats for sure.
But I think he can be a winner.And, fwiw, I think i would take him
over Sam. I think. I just like his
pocket-awerenss-and-movement-skills more than Sams.w
vOctober 4, 2015 at 12:37 pm #31691znModeratorOctober 4, 2015 at 1:36 pm #31692CalParticipantStedman was also open on a couple third downs against the Steelers. If I’m not mistaken, Foles didn’t even target Bailey in that game.
I don’t really blame this all on Foles though. I would guess that Foles is just following the offense and trying to get rid of the ball quickly.
It still is frustrating that the Rams don’t throw to Stedman more often. He’s got good hands and is tenacious. Hell that catch against Seattle in OT is by far the best catch a WR for the Rams has made this year. Just give him some more chances!
October 4, 2015 at 1:58 pm #31695ZooeyModeratorThe ole tweeters in Philly are starting to hint that it is time to see if Sanchez should warm up.
Bradford 2/5 for 12 yards and 2 sacks so far against Washington. Philly 25 yards of total offense in the 1st quarter, including a 30 yard run.
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