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znModeratorfrom Dad’s Conversations About Race: ‘Most White Kids Don’t Get This Talk’
Calvin Hennick
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/dads-conversations-about-race-most-white-kids-104952792887.html
Race doesn’t exist for my kids yet. To my 3-year-old son, I’m “blue” or “gray” or “yellow,” depending on the color of my shirt. And my 5-month-old daughter is primarily concerned with whether or not I’m holding something shiny.
Soon, though, they’ll notice that Mommy has dark brown skin, that Daddy’s skin is sort of pink, and that theirs is somewhere in between. Eventually, they’ll figure out that these differences actually seem pretty important – that people who look like Mommy and Daddy tend to live in different neighborhoods from each other, tend to attend different schools, and are often portrayed differently in the media.
And they will have questions.
I have no idea what I’m going to say to my kids about race (or sex, or bullying, or any other number of complicated topics that haven’t come up yet). So I set out to talk to parents of older black and biracial kids, as well as a couple of experts, to get some tips.
…
The ‘Police Talk’ Is Real, and It’s Awful
Every parent of black and biracial kids I spoke with has talked to their kids about what to do if they’re stopped by police. My brother is a cop, and I don’t want to make my kids think that police officers are out to get them. But in the wake of the Mike Brown, Eric Garner, and Tamir Rice incidents (among others), many parents view “the talk” as a necessity.
Sandy told her son to do whatever he’s told by police officers “and we’ll worry about justice later.”
“After years of saying you need to stand up for what’s right, it’s heartbreaking to tell your child, it doesn’t matter what’s right, you need to lie down,” she says.
One of Sandy’s friends Askia says she’s told her black son to raise his hands as high in the air as possible if confronted by a police officer. “He was looking at me so sad, like, you’re telling me to surrender. I said, ‘If you put your hands up or put your hands behind your back, they can never say you tried to shoot him.’”
STORY: Texting Acronyms Parents Need to Know
Adrienne, another of Sandy’s friends, tells her 10-year-old son not to act in fear when he sees a police officer, but gives these tips: “Move very, very slowly. Always be respectful. Say ‘yes sir.’”
Now, these might sound like decent guidelines for anyone to follow. But most white kids don’t get this talk. I know I didn’t. And I’m not looking forward to having it with my son.
There’s No Way Around the Tough Stuff
One thing I worry about is making my kids paranoid, so that they’re constantly on the lookout for racism. But again, the parents I talked to said that, for them, their kids’ safety trumps everything else.
After Trayvon Martin was killed, Askia wouldn’t let her son wear hoods for a period. “As sweet as his smile is, they’ll never see it in the rain, in the dark, with a hood on,” she says. “They’re going to see him as a six-foot-tall black man. They’re not going to see him as a baby.”
STORY: Being a Foster Dad Breaks My Heart, and Makes It Whole
Sandy stopped her oldest son from playing hide-and-seek with friends in the neighborhood at night. “I had to explain to him, that even though you’re a child playing a child’s game, you’re man-sized, you’re black, and you can’t run around with your hoodie on in the dark, because people might think you’re a criminal.”
It’s Important to Emphasize the Positive
When I watch the news (or worse, read comments on the Internet), it’s easy to feel like practically everyone in the world sees black kids as a threat. But that’s not true, and it’s not what I want them to think.
“I’m always reminding my kids that good exists, and if they talk to their black father or their black grandparents, they’ll hear how much better things are than they were,” Sandy says. “I want my kids to feel that the world is good and that people are good. So I do tend to focus on progress.”
“When my kid can see that the president is a brown guy,” says Gary, a friend of Sandy’s who is black and has a biracial son, “he should know there’s nothing anyone can say to him to make him feel less-than because of his skin color.”
All of This Might Change
Gary’s father suffered a detached retina at the hands of a white Alabama police officer, and he grew up seeing people hand out Ku Klux Klan fliers. But his son isn’t exposed to any of that.
“Years ago, when I talked to him about the Civil Rights Movement and slavery, he asked, ‘Why would people treat other people like that?’” Gary says. “His question was, ‘What are you talking about? How is that possible?’”
Eventually, I hope my kids (or their kids) will be able to look back at the things happening today – racial gaps in wealth and education levels, largely segregated housing and schools, etc. – and ask the same questions.
znModeratorzn wrote:
Cosell once said that as green as he is, you don’t find big men with those kinds of movement skills.Greg or Howard?
Greg.
Howard doesn’t talk to me any more.
znModeratorIf nothing else, the Washington trade got them Robinson. Yeah he’s a bit of a project, and green, but he’s a 10 year solution at LOT.
Cosell once said that as green as he is, you don’t find big men with those kinds of movement skills. He said he would one day be in the conversation for best LOTs of all time.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by
zn.
December 15, 2014 at 3:07 pm in reply to: What's your "bet"? (feeling) (analysis)–Rams beat Giants? #13925znModeratorWin this week against the Giants then go into Centurylink Stadium and destroy the Seahawks on the eve of yet another Superbowl run.
That would sorta kinda salvage something of the season.
Sorta.
I don’t know. I have not really thought much about this game since we have been eliminated and we have no chance at a winning season. I suppose it would be nice to see the defense bounce back and stop the run. It would also be nice to see if someone can step up and start projecting toward “difference maker” status. For example, it is great that Bailey shows flashes of becoming a dependable receiver but it would be great if he could start making plays that win games.
I’m just different from you guys. Once they were eliminated, I let that go. Now I watch to see them play and win. Doesn’t matter to me at all if the games “mean anything” or not.
Plus of course ending on wins is far better. I mean, just imagine the off-season suicide watch if they lose their last 3.
Now I have no idea why I have such a healthy outlook, and you guys don’t. It;s fine either way though because I don;t judge…to each his own.
znModeratorThe Rams cannot roll into next season with Bradford as the only legitimate starting QB on the roster.
Grits
Well…when it comes to that declaration, get in line.
But it depends on what you mean by “legit starting qb” cause…there ain’t a whole lot of those, and they ain’t signing a vet free agent starter.
So that really just means that they draft a guy too.
I think everyone on the planet assumes that’s what they will do.
December 15, 2014 at 10:56 am in reply to: qbs who have started for the Rams since the 1995 move #13911znModeratorOh my bad. Thought u meant starters. In that case, u gotta include Dave Barr
Well I did mean starters…I just rolled out a variation on Germaine. That was not improvised, it was planned for him to take over for Warner during the game. Others might not have put Germaine on the list. I excluded Covington because he didn;t make it past 5 passes, though others might have counted that. You get the same number if you sub Covington for Germaine.
Btw, a fully footnoted version of this post, with graphs and charts, is available in the latest volume of Quarterly Review of NFL Minutia. That’s here: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/qbs-who-have-started-for-the-rams-since-the-1995-move/
December 15, 2014 at 3:26 am in reply to: qbs who have started for the Rams since the 1995 move #13905znModeratorBasically you’re right. Germaine did not technically start but he came in to finish the final game in 99, at Phil.
Covington was of course pulled after 5 attempts.
So maybe Germaine and Covington can be seen as splitting a game.
Just not, you know, the same game.
znModeratorI think the Rams should just go OL in the draft ,we need a center and R&F Guards,I like Saffold but he gets hurt a lot. A dominant OL would help more than any rookie QB the Rams can draft.
I agree with that, in principle.
znModeratorDonald making run at defensive rookie of the year
By Jim Thomas
As Rams defensive line coach Mike Waufle tells the story, you had to see it to believe it when watching tape of Aaron Donald in college and at the Senior Bowl.
“I was sitting there at the scouting combine with (general manager) Les Snead and coach (Jeff) Fisher,” Waufle recalled. “We’re all sitting there together, and we’re going through the interview’’ with Donald.
“The first thing I asked him was: ‘Who taught you technique?’” Waufle said. “I was curious.”
And impressed.
NFL players spend countless hours working on technique, learning how to use their hands to fend off blockers or set them up. But Donald came out of the University of Pittsburgh looking like he’d played in the NFL for several seasons.
His technique came courtesy of Demond Gibson, Donald’s high school coach in Pittsburgh.
Donald already had much of the rest of the skill set required to succeed in the NFL: the strength, leverage and, of course, his quick first step.
“He’s extremely quick. He has one of the fastest 10-yard (dash) times that I’ve ever timed,” Waufle said.
Waufle’s always on the floor at the NFL scouting combine in February running the defensive line drills.
Donald’s 40-yard dash time itself was an eye-opening 4.68 seconds, the fifth-highest time of any defensive lineman at the 2014 combine, ends included.
The first 10 yards of that 40 is what caused Waufle to do a double take.
“I was like, ‘Oh my gosh. This is unbelievable,’” Waufle recalled. “He has that initial quickness that people have a hard time with. He’s got natural leverage. He’s extremely strong.”
All of that helps explain why Donald has made the transition from college to the NFL without a blink. And why he has to be considered a leading contender for the league’s defensive rookie of the year award.
“No question,” Waufle said. “I mean, he’s one of the better defensive tackles in the league, period, regardless of anything.”
The numbers back that up. With two games to play this season, Donald has eight sacks, more than any rookie defensive player regardless of position. Among rookies, the next-highest total entering Sunday’s games was San Francisco’s Aaron Lynch — with five. And he didn’t have any sacks in the 49ers’ loss to Seattle.
OPPOSITION TAKING NOTICE
Donald’s total already is the highest for a Rams defensive tackle since D’Marco Farr had 8½ sacks in the 1999 Super Bowl championship season. Four years earlier, in 1995, Farr had the highest sack total for a Rams defensive tackle during the team’s 20 seasons in St. Louis — 11½.
Donald also has a team-high 16 tackles for loss, and ranks third in quarterback pressures on the squad with 25. His 64 tackles is second among Rams defensive linemen to William Hayes’ 70.
With that kind of production, there isn’t a head coach, offensive coordinator or offensive line coach on the Rams’ schedule who doesn’t know all about Donald.
“He’s just a relentless rusher,” Washington coach Jay Gruden said prior to the Rams’ 24-0 victory over the Redskins on Dec. 7. “Man, he gets straight penetration, uses his hands extremely well in the pass, and really holds up in the run game.
“I think the concern of him coming out was maybe he wouldn’t hold up in the running game on double-teams and all of that, but he does a good job in the run game also. Very disruptive player, and that’s what you want from your three-technique.
“Everybody wants to talk about (Robert) Quinn and how good he is, and deservedly so. But Donald has a lot to do with that pass rush, also.”
Gruden said he was hoping Donald would somehow fall to Washington in the second round of the draft last May.
No such luck. The Rams took him at No. 13 overall.
Last Tuesday on a conference call with St. Louis reporters, Arizona coach Bruce Arians was asked what concerns him about Donald.
“Ha, ha. Everything,” Arians replied. “I like everything about him, and all of it concerns me. He’s a high-motor, very talented young guy that I was really sad to see go the Rams, ‘cause we’ve got to play him twice every year.”
Keep in mind, Donald has put up the numbers he has even though he was a rotation player for the first four games of the season, playing a fair amount but still playing behind starters Michael Brockers and Kendall Langford.
But in Game 5, the Rams’ 31-17 Monday night loss to San Francisco, Donald made his first NFL start (ahead of Langford) and has been starting ever since.
Entering this week’s home finale against the New York Giants, Donald has been on the field for 607 defensive plays. That’s second only to Quinn’s 694 plays among the Rams’ nine defensive linemen.
SMOOTH TRANSITION
Some observers wondered how the undersized Donald (6 feet 1, 285 pounds) would hold up over the course of a long NFL season. But he has shown no signs of hitting the rookie wall.
“Just the normal things, but just like any other football player,” the low-key Donald said when asked about any aches or pains. “I feel good. The season’s gone by pretty fast.”
This is a man who loves to compete and loves playing football. So much so, that showing up to Rams Park every day doesn’t seem like a job to him.
“Not at all,” he said. “Any time you get to do something you love doing with great guys — always cracking jokes with each other, having fun — it makes the day go a lot faster.”
The transition has been about as smooth as possible from college to the NFL. Of course, it helps when your technique is so good that your D-line coach instructs you simply to “keep doing what you’re doing” when you arrive.
That approach has worked well enough to put Donald in position to become the Rams’ first NFL defensive rookie of the year since linebacker Isiah Robertson in 1971. Even the modest Donald admits —for just a second or two — that’s something for which to shoot.
“That’d be an amazing accomplishment,” he said. “But right now I’ve got more games left. Right now I’m just worried about the season. After these games are over, then that’s when I’ll start worrying about that.”
znModeratorI replaced the live link in the original post with a podcast.
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from off the net
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Kevin Demoff on the thing we need to fix – and stuff.
He was on KMOX today, so I figured I’d give it a listen. When asked if there was a common denominator in our losses, he said, “I think the one thing that’s frustrating as a whole is there have been 4 games where you have the ball with 2 minutes or less to go down and win the game, but we didn’t convert on any of those chances.”
Also said, “You like to think that maybe if we had, you know, Sam Bradford, maybe we’d get some of those, but I don’t think it’s that. It’s learning how to win, and it’s something you wanna think you can do. We haven’t necessarily had that confidence to come back and win in a difficult situation. It goes back to the SD game. We overcame a lot of adversity … if we had found a way to win that, the confidence would have translated to other things.”
“The Seattle game is the one we need where we have to have a breakthrough.”
“We gotta fix the QB situation; we’ve gotta get that settled and get someone to play a full 16 games. That’s the key ingredient to being a playoff team – I don’t care who you are.”
znModeratorFinal results:
Manziel 10/18, 54 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTS, Cleveland 1-10 on 3rd down, 27.3 qb rating.
I would say he has a ways to go before he reaches Austin Davis standards.
Let alone Kellen Clemens.
znModeratorI want offensive linemen the most. I would happily draft 3 in the first 3 rounds. But, if the talent lies at another position, I am drafting talent, not position. This draft has some good offensive line talent so I am confident that drafting talent will get me some good offensive linemen.</span>
I agree with that. I am hoping in addition to drafting some, high and low, they also:
* root up some ronin— ie. young vets bouncing from team to team, in the Barksdale mold
* sign some promising UDFAs
* sign some low-market veteran FAs (like Nutten and McCollum back in the Old Days) … this is often a way to get a good center: convert a low-market guard who doesn’t have a team
* develop a guy or 2 they already have (Jones? Person?)
Then put it all in a blender and field the best 5.
..
znModeratorRam-stalk thinks that blue indicates sarcasm. I was on the internet since dialup, I never heard that anywhere except there. Maybe it started in some text based chats? I think Blue looks better than black on the screen, at least my screen. It soundeds good, but the whole point of sarcasm is that the humor of the statement sinks in after much of it’s been said. An immediate indicator of sarcasm such as blue text just serves to ruin the humor in the statement.
I think they instituted blue as sarcasm at ramstalk cause there were too many people who didn’t get irony. That just means it’s a big, high traffic board without a sense of community. So yeah that’s a tradition there alone, though ROD has also adopted it.
Ironically, ramstalk is also the only board where people complain about font color. Here and RRF, people use font colors just as an expression of their individual posting aesthetic, and it’s not taken as meaning anything.
I use blue here when I am trying to distinguish editorial comments from re-posted/quoted material. I just think it’s easier on the eye.
Just different kinds of communities (plus big non-communities) and different styles.
znModeratorIs it possible the Rams can get a favorable schedule next year? The final game always in Seattle is getting old too. Time for some good breaks to go this teams way.
Well, the last decade sucked alright.
But it does appear we are on the cusp of some good years. Looks like they are finally at a place where one ‘good’ offseason could fill all the holes.
w
vI agree that the team is reaching a higher level. Even with the last game. I mean people are bitterly disappointed that they did not defeat the team with the best record in football, which means they EXPECTED the Rams to beat the team with the best record in football. That tells me that the expectations bar has been raised…and rightly so.
We are moving from the era where people complain that they don’t have a winning record, to the era where they complain they can’t win playoff games, and maybe even the era where people complain that they can’t win back to back superbowls.
In terms of the schedule?
I think they can do this new schedule.
Home: Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay
Away: Arizona, San Francisco, Seattle, Green Bay, Minnesota, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Washington
If they are going to be as good as we expect, then:
* they ought to win the games they ought to win (Chicago and Tampa at home, Minn. and Washington on the road)
* they ought to sweep at least one division opponent. I mean they’ve done it before! they were 4-1-1 against the division in 2012. They beat Seattle and SF once each THIS year, and this year was the crazy up and down year.
* they ought to beat some division leaders or at least division contenders. Heck they beat Denver in 2014, and New Orleans and Indy in 2013. In 2015, that includes Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, and the Bengals.
The one REALLY tough game they face IMO is Green Bay in Green Bay.
znModeratorHill. Missed crucial throws.
Shottenheimer. Why Shottenheimer? It’s simple. They lost. Rule of thumb: if you lose, blame the offensive coordinator. That’s as universal as “thunderstorm? The gods are angry.”
Fisher.
The OL. Got beat up by Arz.
Boudreau. Should have gotten a rookie LOT to play at a high level by now. Look at the superior coach, Arians. He has a 5 year vet LOT playing at a much higher level than the Rams raw rookie LOT. Nuff said.
The run D.
Jenkins and Mason. 3 mistakes, leads to 9 points, which is the difference in the game.
Williams. Cause logically, seeing a game with a suddenly regressing run D and Jenkins on an island to get burned, goes to the coordinator.
…
My own feeling? This is like the Seattle game in 2010. There is nothing more frustrating for fans as a group, as a loss after expectations have been raised.
znModeratorWhen the Rams aren’t in it I fall back on a reliable test to see which teams ought to be in the superbowl.
Color combinations.
So for example, if it’s Green Bay, I think, that would look nice in a game against Houston.
The problem with the color combinations approach, of course, is trying to get ideal color match-ups to line up with actual team records…….
znModeratorDidn’t the Rams knock out Leinart who was replaced by Warner? Didn’t Kaepernick get his chance because the Rams knocked out Smith? Wasn’t Wilson put in because the Rams knocked out either Hasselbeck or Whitehurst? Now AZ replaces Palmer with Stanton who is replaced by Lindley all courtesy of the Rams?
(BTW, if you were previously a Ramstalk poster, blue means something different here.
) I know that’s true of Smith, Palmer, and Stanton. I had to look it up about Leinart. On October 7, 2007, Leinart suffered a fractured left collarbone after being sacked by St. Louis Rams linebacker Will Witherspoon. Three days later, he was placed on injured reserve, ending his season.
However, Wilson won the starting job in the pre-season.
On August 26, 2012, Wilson was named the starting quarterback for the first regular season game after competing with Matt Flynn and Tarvaris Jackson for the position
BTW, on Wilson being a third rounder…from 2011-13, the qbs picked in the 2nd and 3rd rounds have a higher hit rate than the 1st rounders. So I wonder, maybe this is the era of the 2nd/3rd round qb.
znModeratorfrom around the net
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aeneas1
the rams entered their home against the cards on a sack/pressure roll, having sacked opposing qbs a whopping 29 times in their previous 6 games while pressuring them close to 40% of the time (avg) in 4 of their last 6 outings. but against the cards thursday night the rams d came up with only 1 sack and pressured team stanton/lindley on just 28% of their dropbacks.
in fact how has arizona’s offensive line been able to do such a good job protecting their qbs from sacks all year? through thursday night’s game the cardinals rank 9th in sacks allowed per pass attempt, not too shabby at all, especially considering who is manning their offensive line:
left tackle: veldheer, a 3rd rounder, free agent pickup in the offseason (raiders), no previous experience with the cards offense, 48 nfl starts prior to the 2014 season.
left guard: larsen, a 6th rounder, free agent pickup in the offseason (bucs), no previous experience with the cards offense, 31 nfl starts prior to the 2014 season.
center: sendlein: an undrafted guy who has manned the cards center position for the last 6 years.
right guard: fanaika, a 7th rounder, free agent pickup in 2013 (seahawks), 1 year experience with the cards offense, 16 nfl starts prior to the 2014 season.
right tackle: massie, a 4th rounder, started all 16 games his rookie season (2012), benched in 2013, didn’t start any games, now the right tackle starter again, 16 nfl starts prior to the 2014 season.
other: cooper, a 1st rounder, ir’d entire 2013 rookie season, is a backup this season.
December 13, 2014 at 7:53 pm in reply to: reporters, analysts etc, do the post-mortem on the ARZ game #13817znModeratorRams failing to gain the tough yards
By Bernie Miklasz
http://www.rams-news.com/under-the-lights-rams-rb-tre-mason-video/
I wanted to follow up on something I wrote in Friday’s column, specifically the Rams’ struggle to gain the tough yards on the ground in short-yardage situations.
Let’s back it up with statistics.
This season when the Rams run the ball on third or fourth down, and they need only 1 or 2 yards to move the chains, they’ve picked up only six first downs in 13 attempts. That success rate (46.2 percent) ranks last in the NFL and is well below the league average of 68.7 percent.
Rams coach Jeff Fisher and offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer came to St. Louis in 2012 with solid reputations for putting together a physical rushing attack. But it isn’t happening this year, something that Fisher freely acknowledged Friday.
“We’ve got to get better at it,” Fisher said. “We need to be able to line up and say, ‘Here we come. This is what we’re running. Stop it.’ We’re not there yet.”
The Rams have picked up the first down via the run only three times in nine chances when faced with a third-and-1 situation. That’s also the league’s worst percentage.
And on third downs with less than 4 yards to go, the Rams rank 28th with a conversion rate of 53.1 percent — run or pass. The league average is just under 60 percent.
The Rams also rank 24th in the NFL in the number of ball-control drives that take at least five minutes off the clock.
If the Rams’ offense can’t dominate the physical part of the game, that’s a problem. Forcefully running the football is supposed to be the primary strength of the Fisher-Schottenheimer offense.
What’s the problem? The Rams need much better run blocking at center and guard. According to the ratings at Pro Football Focus, Rams center Scott Wells ranks 26th in run blocking among the 28 NFL centers who have played at least 50 percent of the snaps. Starting guards Rodger Saffold and Davin Joseph are ranked 44th and 52nd, respectively, in run blocking among the 60 NFL guards who have played a minimum of 50 percent of the snaps. And tight end Lance Kendricks is a below-average run blocker, according to PFF.
And it’s certainly fair to question the design and the strategy that goes into the Rams’ inconsistent running game.
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Rams rookie Aaron Donald continues to be ranked No. 1 among all NFL defensive tackles this season by the analysts at Pro Football Focus. Donald had another excellent performance Thursday against the Cardinals. Wrote Pro Football Focus: “Entering Thursday’s game as our top-graded defensive tackle, Donald extended the gap with one of his best pass rushing games of the season. Working against all three of the Cardinals’ interior offensive linemen, Donald collected four QB pressures … he is showing no signs of hitting the rookie wall.”Rams owner Stan Kroenke is having a rough year with his U.S. sports franchises. As of Friday morning the Rams were 6-8 and headed to their 11th consecutive non-winning season, the NBA Denver Nuggets were off to a 10-12 start that’s put them 11th in the Western Conference standings, and the NHL Colorado Avalanche were 11th in the Western Conference with a 10-13-6 mark. (What is it with the number 11?) The Rams are 29-48-1 since Kroenke took over as the majority owner in 2010; the 29 wins rank tied for 26th in the NFL over that time.
Here’s Hall of Fame running back Marshall Faulk on Rams rookie RB Tre Mason. “I believe that (Mason) has ‘It’ and you need ‘It’ if you’re going to run the ball effectively week in and week out in the NFL,” Faulk said Thursday on the NFL Network. “He has ‘It’ and they need to hang their hat on him.”
Faulk and fellow former Ram Kurt Warner got choked up on the NFL Network set Thursday night after watching a tribute to the late Post-Dispatch sports columnist Bryan Burwell. The piece on Burwell was presented with loving care by St. Louisan Steve Wyche, the NFL Network insider. … On behalf of my Post-Dispatch colleagues, I’d like to thank Blues owner Tom Stillman, Rams GM Les Snead and coach Fisher for attending Burwell’s memorial service Thursday.
What a tremendous gesture of respect by the SEC football coaches, who voted Mizzou’s Gary Pinkel as the conference coach of the year. It just reaffirms the prestige that Pinkel has brought to the MU program. … Former Mizzou defensive end Michael Sam was in Atlanta last Saturday to cheer on the Tigers in their loss to Alabama in the SEC championship game.
ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper believes former Mizzou receiver Dorial Green-Beckham, a sophomore redshirt at Oklahoma, would have challenged Alabama’s Amari Cooper as the top wideout in the 2015 draft “if not for his significant off-field red flags.” Kiper elaborated: “Even though he was kicked off the team at Missouri, his talent level may be too tantalizing to pass up. There are other good wideouts in this draft, and Green-Beckham could get passed on. But if he comes back (at Oklahoma in 2015), stays out of trouble, and plays well, he’s a first-rounder next year.”
znModeratori have a friend who watches the bruins weekly. and i trust his opinion. he likes hundley. not in the first round. but thinks he’s a legit second round talent.
and that’s better than any option the rams have right now. even if it means he has to sit out for awhile.
Me? I hope there are other options to draft, not just hundley.
znModeratorbrett hundley. that’s the guy i want. should be available in the second round.
let him sit on the bench for a year and develop. hill starts in 2015.
draft at least 2 olinemen. i like cameron erving. can play maybe any position on the line.
Honestly, we don’t know what will happen. They could draft a rookie and he could end up sitting longer than a year.
PS I don’t like what I read about Hundley.
Also, I hope they don’t limit acquiring linemen to the draft.
December 13, 2014 at 2:10 pm in reply to: CBS Sports 920AM – Greg Cosell 12-12-14 – Joe Strauss and Dick Vermei – Podcast #13807znModeratorDecember 13, 2014 at 2:09 pm in reply to: reporters, analysts etc, do the post-mortem on the ARZ game #13806znModeratorRams run game stuck against Arizona
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/14639/rams-run-game-stuck-against-arizona
EARTH CITY, Mo. — For most of the season, the St. Louis Rams have struggled to run the ball with any consistency, especially against the better defenses in the league.
But no defense has offered more of a barrier to ground production than the Arizona Cardinals’. That proved true again Thursday night when the Cardinals held St. Louis to 69 yards on 20 carries, an average of just 3.5 yards per attempt. Their running backs had even bigger issues, gaining just 37 yards on 15 carries.
On a night in which the Rams managed little in the way of offense as a whole, the inability to run tipped the first domino.
“They played well up front and we had difficulty getting the run game going,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “Everything we do, most people do, is build it off that run game. Get the run game going then you get your shots, you have your opportunities.”
That never happened against the Cardinals, not that the inability to move it on the ground against the Cardinals is a groundbreaking revelation for the Rams. In two meetings this year, the Rams’ running backs (not including receivers Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey) are averaging just 48.5 rushing yards per game and 2.9 yards per carry.
Against all other teams, Rams running backs average 92.9 yards and 4.3 yards per carry. Absent a consistent running threat, the Rams’ offense is destined to struggle.
The Rams have lost all four games in which they have less than 90 rushing yards and have scored a combined 33 points in those contests. In their three best rushing performances, they’ve averaged 144.7 yards per game on the ground, won all three and averaged 32.7 points.
It’s part of the simple formula that the Rams hoped to replicate more often this year: Run the ball, stop the run and win the turnover battle. They’ve alternately done each of those three things throughout the season and even done them all at once on occasion. But they haven’t done it enough, especially against tough defenses like Arizona.
“They really had a nice scheme on defense,” running back Tre Mason said. “They played us well today and kept us in check in our run game, guys like [Cardinals DE] Calais Campbell, their front seven, their DBs. They’re pretty good players up front.”
znModeratorfrom around the net
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theohall
Seen some blaming the OL and Schotty for this loss
Look again. NFL Network did an excellent job after Game Rewind showing how Hill missed four TDs in that game – two underthrows (Britt and Bailey) which easily could have been six with better throws had he led the WR instead of forcing them to turn back to the ball to catch them – and two throws to covered players when another player is running free on the other hash and already passing the single coverage before the ball has left Hill’s hand.
So – 4 potential TDs purely on Hill making shorter throws or to the incorrect WR when the line did give him time.
This also means Schottenhiemer called plays which got receivers free. Hill just didn’t hit them.
The OL did completely suck in run-blocking this game. The Cardinals did this to the Rams in November also. Their DL is better than the Rams OL, Just give the Cardinals credit there, and let’s hope the Rams work on improving the OL more this off-season. That is the biggest weakness on this team now.
Wells cost them a red zone down with a horrible snap which had nothing to do with anyone but himself screwing up
Back to their DL being better than our OL, there was some bad coaching calls in terms of protections. When the same guy on a defense gets 5+ free runs at the QB in one game, somebody isn’t paying attention or making the necessary adjustments to account for that guy. Especially when it’s a DB. That’s on coaching.
So, while their is some blame for coaching and OL play, Hill had the opportunities to make game-winning type plays at least 4 times and did not successfully execute one of them.
The biggest difference in the game – Mason’s turnover. Without it, the Rams probably aren’t trying to drive for a TD in the final 5 minutes, and are likely kicking a game-tying FG. Who knows what would have happened then?
znModeratorI have long believed that building an offensive line was essential to a successful offense. I think the absolute key to developing a strong offensive line is continuity,…. But they absolutely have to be together for an extended period of time. That’s what the Rams need to shoot for. That’s what will give them the best chance to succeed offensively.
Here’s the issue with continuity. The way we tend to think of OL continuity comes from the 70s and 80s and no longer exists.
Pasquerelli did some research on this and found that in the era of the cap and free agency, on average, every OL in the league changes 3.5 starters every 2 years. This is the article together with a previous discussion: http://theramshuddle.com/topic/old-article-era-of-ol-continuity-long-gone/
The only alternative is to put a huge percentage of your cap in the OL, which obviously causes problems elsewhere.
As a rule, across the years, a line can at best afford to sign 2-3 guys longterm.
This btw is one of the reasons that Boudreau emphasizes flexibility. Either way the better OLs find ways to handle the continuity issue. For example, the ARZ OL is not the same one as last year. Last year it was:
Sowell Colledge Sendlein Fanaika Winston
This year it is:
Veldheer Larsen Sendlein Fanaika Massie
Anyway. Yeah I think it’s pretty clear the Rams have to toughen up the middle. That will probably mean replacing both Wells and Joseph, and making sure Saffold comes back from his surgery.
Right now things seem worse because they are compensating for a rookie LOT. For example, I think it’s clear they were better off on the right side with Saffold next to Barksdale, but they can’t do that with the current group–for now Saffold has to stay on the left.
znModeratorAre Greg Williams Ds and the Arizona Ds
always gonna trade Yards and big plays
for the chance to get strip-sacks and INTs, etc ?
High risk high reward defenses ?As opposed to Seattle and SF which maybe,
possibly are more fundamentally sound
defenses ? I dunno.Well to me, it’s not the difference between wild and crazy guys v. fundamentally sound.
Seattle and SF work on lining up and beating you on the basis of the defenders knowing their roles inside/out.
Arz and the Rams will mix packages and will match up according to the opponent. For example, ARz is primarily a 3/4 team but against the Rams, they played primarily a 4/3.
That doesn’t have to mean trading yards etc. for big plays.
znModeratorDefense – Total Yards given up
Rams are only 21st (Seattle is 1st, SF is 3rd and ARIZONA is 26th. )http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPointsPerGame/position/defense
Defense – Points given up — Rams are 13th (Cards are 2nd, Seattle 3rd, SF is 10th)
Looks like the other three defenses in the West
are still better than the Rams ?How is it possible for Arizona to be 2nd in points given up
while only being 26th in yards allowed ?w
vThe Rams numbers are inflated by some horrendous performances early in the season. Are the other defenses still better than the Rams? Perhaps, but the gap has closed significantly throughout the season
I agree with HPD. I always say season-long averages can be deceptive. The Rams D changed during the year. I think their season divides in half. The first 7 games (ending with the KC game), then the next 7 games (starting with the 2nd SF game).
As for ARZ, PRF lists them as 14th in total yards allowed.
NFL.com lists them as 6th in yards per game.
December 13, 2014 at 2:25 am in reply to: reporters, analysts etc, do the post-mortem on the ARZ game #13773znModeratorFisher, Cook clear air on ‘we got outcoached’ comments
by Jim Thomas
It’s not all that unusual for an NFL coach to say, “I need to coach better” or “we need to coach better” after a tough defeat.
But for a player to say, “We got out-coached”? Well, you don’t hear that too often.
So it fell into the category of the expected when coach Jeff Fisher said Friday that he met with tight end Jared Cook to discuss remarks made after Thursday’s 12-6 loss to the Arizona Cardinals.
“We got outplayed, we got outcoached, and we just put a bad display out there,” a dejected Cook said after the game.
At the time, Cook was surrounded by maybe a dozen reporters at his locker stall, and that comment got everyone’s attention. When asked if he cared to elaborate on the “outcoached” part of his response, Cook replied:
“Not really. It’s pretty self-explanatory. We got outplayed and outcoached. All we put up was six points and didn’t get in the (end zone) not once tonight. That’s a pretty unsuccessful night if you ask me.”
So what was Cook talking about?
“I know exactly what he was talking about,” Fisher said. “We discussed it, and I think if he had to do it all over again, he wouldn’t have gone there from the ‘outcoached’ standpoint.
“It’s not really what he meant as far as our discussion, communication this morning. It was kind of a one-fell-swoop: ‘Hey, we just got beat’ and included it all. He wasn’t being critical of coaching.”
So Fisher didn’t take Cook’s comments personally?
“We discussed it, and we’re fine,” Fisher said.
That wasn’t the only out-of-the-ordinary situation Fisher faced on the topic of postgame comments.
Namely, Arizona coach Bruce Arians took a couple of jabs at Fisher’s won-loss record, as well as the Rams’ defense while basking in the thrill of victory.
“Everybody wanted to say how great their defense is, but I think they saw a good defense tonight, and it was in red and white,” Arians said after the game. “I am very proud of our guys.”
Arians also said: “I love it when nobody says that you will have a chance to win. There is an 11-3 team, and a team that is always 8-8. You figure it out.”
Arizona was the underdog entering the game even though the Cardinals had an 10-3 record at the time, compared to the Rams’ 6-7. As for the 8-8 reference, well, Fisher had five squads finish 8-8 during his long tenure as head coach of the Houston Oilers and Tennessee Titans.
Fisher said he was aware of Arians’ comments.
“When the game was over, I went over and congratulated him on the win,” Fisher said, referring to the customary postgame handshake on the field. “I told him that I hoped his quarterback was going to be OK.”
Drew Stanton suffered a third-quarter knee injury, and his status is uncertain for the remainder of the regular season.
“The last thing I said to him was, ‘Why don’t you go win a couple playoff games for the division? Good luck,’” Fisher said. “That’s all I said to him. I have no comments on his comments.”
Arians’ thoughts notwithstanding, Fisher liked the play of the Rams’ defense Thursday night.
He would’ve liked coordinator Gregg Williams’ unit to have come up with a turnover or two — and it came close on several occasions. And the run defense certainly could’ve been better.
But as Fisher pointed out: “We’ve gone 12 quarters without giving up a touchdown now. In particular, the sudden change after the unfortunate turnover, the defense went out there and held them to 3. That’s the mark of a good defense early in the game.”
Fisher was referring to the lost fumble by running back Tre Mason on the Rams’ second possession of the game. Arizona took over at the Rams’ 27 but managed only a field goal.
The Rams lost the turnover battle 2-0 Thursday night, although the second came on a desperation heave by Shaun Hill that was intercepted by Arizona on the final play of the game.
It marked the first time the Rams were in the minus category in takeaway-giveaway differential in a game since the first Arizona contest Nov. 9. It marked the first time the Rams went without a takeaway in a game since their 28-26 victory over Seattle on Oct. 19 in Game 6.
The Rams had three good-to-excellent chances for a takeaway Thursday, all involving cornerback Janoris Jenkins.
In the second quarter, Jenkins leaped in front of a short sideline pass from Stanton intended for Michael Floyd and had both hands on the ball but couldn’t hang on. That one possibly could have been returned for a touchdown had Jenkins come up with the interception.
On a third-quarter pass thrown over the middle by Stanton replacement Ryan Lindley, Jenkins originally was credited with an interception on a diving play. All turnovers are subject to replay review, and the initial call of interception was changed to incomplete after the review because the ball squirted out.
In the fourth quarter, Jenkins forced a fumble on a 1-yard run by Kerwynn Williams, but Jenkins couldn’t grab the loose football. Cardinals left tackle Jared Veldheer got there first.
“The difference in this game was a play here or there,” Fisher said. “One of those takeaways, or a big pass. … That’s what it came down to.”
znModeratorjoemad wrote:
Foles is China doll too, isn’t he hurt?
All QBs get hurt, look at Arizona, down to #3, their biggest success was based on Palmer and Warner who also had a histories of injury.
Bottom line, most QB’s get hurt …… while very very few rookies succeed.
Keep Bradford…. he is your best choice at this point.
For every Andrew Luck picked, there’s 10 Joey Harringtons or Gio Carmazzis.
QBs picks since 2000.
SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL TEAM
That is a depressing list. Some occasional gems, but overall pretty sad.
Depends on the round.
So what’s the hit rate? I count as “hits” anyone who becomes a starter for more than just a year, even if he eventually fades.
Since 2000, hit rate on qbs taken in rounds 4-7:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2000&year_max=2013&type=&round_min=4&round_max=7&slot_min=1&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos=QB&college_id=all&conference=any&show=allI count Brady and Bulger as “hits.” That’s 2 of 106. Hit rate = 1.9%
I count as hits Brees, Schaub (though he fell apart), Dalton, Wilson, Kaepernick, and Foles.
That’s 6 of 34. Hit rate = 17.6%
I count as hits Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Vick, Eli, Rodgers, Palmer, Cutler, Flacco, Newton, Smith, Stafford, Luck, Bradford, and Tannenhill
That’s 15 of 37. Hit rate = 40.5%
HOWEVER, in the last couple of years, rounds 2 & 3 have done better than round 1.
2011-13, rounds 2 and 3: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2011&year_max=2013&type=&round_min=2&round_max=3&slot_min=1&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos=QB&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all
4 of 8. Hit rate = 50%.
3 of 9. Hit rate = 33%.
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December 12, 2014 at 8:24 pm in reply to: reporters, analysts etc, do the post-mortem on the ARZ game #13764znModeratorCardinals get to Rams CB Jenkins for big plays
By Jim Thomas
In a game that was tight from start to finish, the Cardinals found success going after Rams cornerback Janoris Jenkins. Both times it was Arizona wide receiver Michael Floyd who got the best of Jenkins on Thursday at the Edward Jones Dome.
Early in the second quarter, Floyd got behind Jenkins down the left sideline for a 49-yard reception from quarterback Drew Stanton. That gave Arizona a first down at the Rams 36, putting them on the fringe of field goal range.
They came up with one first down, on a one-yard gain by tight end/H-back Rob Housler on a third-and-one play from the 26. And that was enough real estate for the first of four field goals by Cardinals rookie Chandler Catanzaro. This one came from 44 yards.
The pass play was the longest completion against the Rams defense since the team’s last prime-time game, an Oct. 13 Monday night contest against San Francisco. In that contest, 49ers wide receiver Brandon Lloyd scored on an 80-yard catch-and-run just before halftime.
Floyd got Jenkins once again for a big play, but not on a reception, in the second half. With Floyd once again running deep down the left sideline, Jenkins was called for pass interference. There was contact near the end of the play and Jenkins had an arm interlocked with Floyd’s arm as the football came down.
The result was a 36-yard gain on third-and-4 from the Arizona 36, giving Arizona a first down at the Rams 28. From there, the Cardinals were able to get a 51-yard field goal from the previously struggling Catanzaro, who had missed four of his previous nine tries before going 4 for 4 Thursday.
Catanzaro’s 51-yarder in the third quarter gave Arizona a 9-3 lead in what became a 12-6 Cardinals victory.
Jenkins almost got a chance for some retribution, but what looked like an interception on the next Arizona possession was overruled by the replay official and changed to an incomplete pass.
“I think it was a good call,” coach Jeff Fisher said. “The ball is loose on the ground. He has to maintain possession throughout.”
Even with the play overturned, the Cardinals still had to punt on the next play, but the Rams lost about 40 yards of field position with the punt and field position was something that was lacking for the Rams most of the night.
REMEMBERING BURWELL
There was a stadium-wide moment of silence in honor of late Post-Dispatch columnist Bryan Burwell just before kickoff, complete with a photo of Burwell on the stadium scoreboards.
There was a framed picture of Burwell at his usual spot on press row at the Edward Jones Dome. About a half-dozen large framed pictures of Burwell were hung around the press box.
Earlier in the day, Fisher and general manager Les Snead took the time to attend a memorial service for Burwell in Ballwin.
SITTING IT OUT
For the second week in a row all seven pregame inactives for the Rams were healthy scratches: DB Lamarcus Joyner, CB Marcus Roberson, TE Justice Cunningham, OG Brandon Washington, TE Alex Bayer, DT Alex Carrington, and DE Ethan Westbrooks.
DE Chris Long (ankle), who was listed as questionable, was active as expected.
RAM-BLINGS
Short but high punts by Arizona’s Drew Butler took the steam out of Tavon Austin and the Rams punt return. After a 143-yard day Sunday against Washington, Austin had minus-2 yards on two returns Thursday. Austin had four fair catches; in addition one Butler punt landed out of bounds and another was downed by the Cardinals.
• Former Rams coach Dick Vermeil was in the house, and was introduced to thunderous applause in the first half. He was part of the NFL Network’s pregame show.
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