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Giants vs. Rams previewBy Nick Wagoner and Dan Graziano
ESPN.com
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/14731/giants-vs-rams-preview
When: 4:05 p.m. ET Sunday Where: Edward Jones Dome, St. Louis TV: FOX
The St. Louis Rams and New York Giants have both been eliminated from playoff contention and neither enters Sunday’s matchup with much to play for.
But neither team has looked like it is ready to close up shop for the rest of the season, either, which could make this at least a mildly interesting game for the football diehards.
ESPN Rams reporter Nick Wagoner and ESPN Giants reporter Dan Graziano discuss Sunday’s game:
Wagoner: Dan, I’m sure you’re getting a lot of questions about Odell Beckham Jr., but let’s be real, he’s going to be the most exciting player on the field Sunday. What is it about him that’s allowed him to have such success, and is he as fun to watch up close as he is from a distance?
Graziano: Nick, I don’t want to overstate the case here. But what we’re watching with Beckham on a weekly basis (a daily one, in fact, when you take into account his practice antics) is a player gifted with such raw athleticism that he stands out on a field whose other occupants are also world-class athletes. He’s impressive in all facets. He runs great routes. He has great hands. He plays bigger than his 5-foot-11 size would indicate, because he has the ability to outjump defenders and locate the ball in the air before they do. He has the blazing speed you’ve seen. Really, from a raw talent standpoint, he’s the total package. What he’s doing is even more incredible due to the facts that he missed all of training camp and the first four games of the season with a hamstring injury, and that he and Victor Cruz played only two games together. Eli Manning is targeting Beckham pretty much all the time, and it’s working. Expect to see a lot of him.
The Rams’ defense has allowed a total of 12 points over its past three games. What’s behind the surge?
Wagoner: There are plenty of reasons for the surge, up to and including taking advantage of a bit of a break in the schedule in terms of opponents. But make no mistake: The Rams’ defensive surge is real. They held the high-powered Broncos to seven points, the fewest since Peyton Manning took over at quarterback. The intangible part of it is the defense has finally gotten comfortable with Gregg Williams as coordinator and vice versa. Williams now knows the best way to deploy his players and they now know what is expected of them. That’s manifested into a defense that’s doing a bit of everything well. The Rams had a disappointing performance last week in stopping Arizona’s run game, but their better efforts start with stopping the run. When the Rams stop the run consistently and force opponents into second- and third-and-long, their vaunted pass rush can be as good as advertised. It doesn’t hurt that end Robert Quinn and tackle Aaron Donald form one of the most dynamic inside out duos in the league, either. But really, they’re getting better performances across the board with the defense.
While we’re on defense, I noticed that since Week 7, the Rams and Giants rank first and third in the league in sacks, respectively. What’s been the cause of the uprising from New York’s pass rush?
Graziano: The Giants had 19 sacks in their first 11 games of the season and have picked up 22 in their past three games. A lot of that has to do with their opponents — Jacksonville, Tennessee and Washington. But in terms of what they’re doing to take advantage of the matchups, they’re getting contributions from all over. Jason Pierre-Paul has six sacks in those three games, but rookie defensive end Kerry Wynn is making a contribution. Rookie linebacker Devon Kennard, who was NFC Defensive Player of the Week in Week 14, has been a factor in the pass rush. Second-year defensive tackle Johnathan Hankins is up to seven sacks for the season. The Giants are getting a variety of help in the pass rush, which is especially important with defensive ends Mathias Kiwanuka and Robert Ayers among the 22 Giants currently on injured reserve. They’ll blitz a linebacker or a safety or a cornerback in key times. Basically, since the schedule turned around for them, they’ve been taking advantage of their matchups at a high level and in a variety of ways.
I know the quarterback situation has been a muddle, but why do the Rams still have so many unanswered questions at the other offensive skill positions? Receiver and running back?
Wagoner: Well, I think they’ve at least finally settled on Tre Mason as their primary ball carrier for the future, though I suppose we thought the same thing last year at this time with Zac Stacy. Mason’s not getting the vast majority of the snaps right now because he’s still not up to speed in pass protection, but if and when that happens, his snap count will only increase. In the meantime, he’s the first option running the ball and Benny Cunningham is next in line to handle the dirty work. I think Mason will be the main guy going forward, but judging the Rams’ recent knack for drafting running backs earlier than expected, maybe that should be considered a year-to-year proposition until they go with the same guy for two consecutive seasons. At receiver, they seem to have finally settled into using Kenny Britt, Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin. If Brian Quick comes back from a devastating shoulder injury and they re-sign Britt, they should be pretty solid. I’d argue they could still use a true No. 1 guy like the Giants have with Beckham, but it’s not the pressing need it was coming into the season. They just need to find someone who can more consistently get them the ball.
Sticking to quarterbacks, what do you make of Eli Manning at this point in his career? He’s obviously had great success but also some clunkers. With so few decent quarterbacks around, there’s no way the Giants would look elsewhere at that position, is there?
Graziano: No way. Other than the horrible five-interception game against the 49ers in Week 11, Manning has operated the new offense smoothly and efficiently in the first year under new offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo. He’s protecting the ball well, making good decisions, relying on shorter, higher-percentage stuff than he did earlier in his career. Considering they have four wide receivers and three running backs on injured reserve, and that the offensive line has struggled all year to protect him, I think Manning’s doing fine and is among the very least of their problems.
As for quarterback, what do you expect them to do this offseason? Bring back Bradford? Move up in the draft? What?
Wagoner: At this point, the expectation remains that the Rams will try to bring Sam Bradford back at a reduced rate with incentives built in, and spend a high draft pick (first three rounds) on a quarterback. I’ve been writing that for the past month or so and I stand by the assertion until I hear something different. Of course, that still depends on how big the pay cut would be and whether Bradford’s representation wants to explore the market. Even with his injury issues, he could become a hot commodity in such a quarterback-needy market. Moving up sounds good on paper, but I’m not sure they have the ammunition or the desire to make such a move. They could also look to bring Shaun Hill back as a backup option for Bradford and/or the new draft pick. Either way, it’s the one thing holding this team back from being a legitimate playoff contender. The only problem is that it’s also the most difficult problem to fix.
Giants at Rams: Stats of the Week
1
That’s how many times an opponent has managed to drive inside the Rams’ 20-yard line in the past three games. And that one trip came after Arizona recovered a fumble at the Rams’ 27.
63.2
Eli Manning’s completion percentage for the season, which would be a career high if it lasted through the end of the season. He is also on pace for a career-high 590 pass attempts.
znModeratorOn Jones. Picking up on something I was saying. It;s all IMO. –>
I think there’s a complete misunderstanding about what is going on with Jones. Some think he has been moved to tackle. I think that’s just convenient hole-plugging in the background, because according to his own view of it, he’s not in shape to play. So they make use of a body where they need one on the scout team.
So to me, he is filling in at tackle on the scout team, which means they have pretty much relegated him to the bottom rung and are just making use of him there, so other guys like Person can get in practice with the real squad.
This year is lost for him, because the back surgery means he lost the weight and strength he had gained.
From JT:
The injury and resulting surgery “definitely set me back a lot,” Jones said. He couldn’t do any weight training for a couple of months following the surgery, so he lost some of the weight and strength he had worked hard to add over the offseason.
I take all this as meaning he is just filling a hole at RT for now, considering that he is pretty much otherwise useless until he gets a solid off-season. One that is not subtracted by a new injury. That is, he wasn’t movef to RT in the sense that he can develop there, he was just a body that wasn’t physically up to playing so they figure, what the hell we could use someone to practice at tackle for the scout team. He filled a hole in the meanwhile. That way he’s not completely useless to them.
but for much of the second half of this season he has been working out at right tackle with the second-team offense and the scout team.
znModerator48 million seems kind of light. What is Urban Meyer getting from Ohio State?
Grits
It’s around twice as much as Meyer.
Meyer will become one of the highest-paid coaches in college football, along with Alabama’s Nick Saban and Oklahoma’s Bob Stoops and Texas’ Mack Brown. He was given a six-year contract that pays $4 million annually, plus another $2.4 million total in “retention payments.” He also can qualify for supplemental bonuses
znModeratorWell, Devin Hester has been doing well as a receiver lately, actually.
And Austin has Schotty as an OC who asks rookies to work into his offense moreso than works with their talents, so Tavon Austin’s head was swimming a bit.
Then again, Schotty’s offense is pretty difficult for WRs in general and when he left, the WRs were all too happy to see him go.
Point taken about the D.
Disagree about why RG3 and Kaepernick aren’t panning out. Both are run first QBs who never really learned to READ DEFENSES. RG3 got hurt and he’s physically never going to be as explosive, thus not the threat he was and Kaepernick is still fast, but it’s no longer a secret that he’s only working with half the field which is a HUGE advantage for the D. Running QBs tend to be “found out” in the NFL by their 2nd or 3rd year.
Russell Wilson is still on the fence. Seattle keeps his attempts down and he’s very smart about WHEN to run and protecting himself. That said, without Lynch, that offense won’t be the same and they won’t be able to just “throw more” because that would expose Wilson.
I think the analyst is just dead wrong on Bradford.
Nailed it.
znModeratorhttp://theramshuddle.com/topic/altered-roll-has-brockers-playing-nose-tackle/
their current string of 12 consecutive quarters without allowing a touchdown ties the franchise record, last set in 1939 when the team was based in Cleveland.
znModeratorI don’t think it helps anybody to start Wells and Joseph. imo
I think ARz game was far worse than usual and that they won’t be that bad this week.
Against Seattle, I make no promises.
znModeratorFisher revealed that Wells takes a day of practice off once a week. He’s banged up. Same with Joseph. Takes a day off a week–banged up. Saffold is playing hurt, and GR is a rookie.
Doesn’t sound like the kind of group you want going against a tough and physical division foe on a short week.
znModeratorI think the Rams can win with GW, but i doubt the D
is ever really consistent, and they need
a complementary O. (kinda stating the obvious)He didn’t have the players in N.O. as Ryan is proving now (31st on D).
The last time Wms did have some players as a coordinator was in Washington. That D was top 10 3 out of 4 years, and in that period the offense ranked 30th, 11th, and 14th. So in 2004, they had a D ranked 3rd and an offense ranked 30th.
And although he had decent players in Washington, it wasn’t a who’s who. Their best pass rusher in that period was Andre Carter (10.5 in 2007).
The reason, IMO, that this D does not feel “right” yet is that it still makes big mistakes in coverage.
Manning is getting sacked at a 5% rate which is 14th in the league. 5% is pretty good. This game, actually, is kind of a test for the Rams defense. The Giants can’t run but they hold up passing regardless.
znModeratorRemember when AD stood for Austin Davis?
lol
znModeratorfrom Defensive rookie of the year candidates
By Marty Callinan, ESPN Stats & Information
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/100173/defensive-rookie-of-the-year-candidates
Rams DT Aaron Donald leads an impressive group of Defensive Rookie of the Year candidates. As the NFL season closes in on the end of the regular season, ESPN Stats & Info looks at some of the leading candidates for the Defensive Rookie of the Year award.
DT Aaron Donald, Rams
Forget about Defensive Rookie of the Year for a minute. Donald has been one of the best defensive tackles in all of football this season.
Donald has 8.0 sacks while lined up as an interior pass rusher, trailing only Gerald McCoy of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for the most in the NFL this season (8.5) and Ndamukong Suh for the most by a rookie in the last seven seasons (10.0 in 2010).
Opponents have a Total QBR of 44 against the Rams in 388 dropbacks with Donald on the field. That would rank fourth in the NFL. The Rams have allowed a Total QBR of 74 in 147 dropbacks with Donald off the field, which would rank 31st.
Signature play: With just less than two minutes remaining in a Week 14 matchup against the Washington Redskins, Donald lined up as the left defensive tackle against right guard Chris Chester. Donald pushed Chester straight back eight yards as if the veteran weren’t even there and sacked Robert Griffin III.
znModeratorI dunno that. So I can’t say if what he did was irresponsible or not. But… I can say that his defense is now working, so we know it works with this crew.
Hindsight is 20:20. Losing your franchise QB before the season starts will effect the defense. Losing Chris Long affects the defense too. Starting three rookies in the secondary will affect the defense. Can’t disagree more with the OP’s assessment of JF and GW.
I agree with both of those statements…and will add this: this is the first time Wms as a defensive coordinator installed his system under the new CBA rules limiting off-season practices and especially practices in pads.
There was an interview with McDonald a while back where he said they spent a lot of time in extra meetings well into the season trying to get the defense down.
To me, early on, it looked a lot like 2011 when the offense was trying to play in the new system McD brought. This time of course it was the defense. They looked out of sync, uncomfortable, and of course made multiple game-killing errors.
There was a switch around the Denver game where players talked about getting the defense by then and playing fast without having to think.
Could WMS have cut it down? Maybe but then…that depends on whether your’re thinking longterm or short term. It seems to me that the Fisher Rams always make the longterm choice. For example, the draft–Matthews was presumed to be the better short term answer but he did not have Robinson’s longterm possibilities.
znModeratorA good personnel/coaching team
with cap-space, “ought” to be able to fix
this OLine.That only leaves that…um…one other
little problem.w
vYeah. I know.
Is Mason the guy?
Maybe they need a 2nd round RB this time.
znModeratorI dunno if Barksdale is coming back
or if they should even want him back.
He hasn’t been all that impressive
in the second half of the year.I think Barksdale will be back. I think he’s better playing next to Saffold. I also think that he could work on technique issues in the off-season. I ALSO think starting ROTs are not that hard to find and they could add someone behind him in any number of ways.
Replacing 3 linemen in one year? A lot to ask. But it’s G, C, and ROT, which are not big challenges. I looked up PFF rankings on OGs, for example, and 75% of their top 12 are NOT 1st round picks.
In their line-building histories, both Boudreau and Fisher have been in situations where they turned OLs around in one year. Though…they ain’t gonna do it with 3 rookies. I think they would rather eat their own fingers than start 3 rookie linemen.
znModeratorOne man’s view
of drafting.==========================
maxThe Pats have had only 1 top 10 pick in the past 13 years. They drafted Jerod Mayo #10 overall in 2008.
Yet, there they sit with the best record in the NFL and favorites to win the SB this season….
On the rare occasions when there’s an Andrew Luck in the draft, sure it makes sense to tank. That would be once every 20 or so and you’d have to have a shot at the #1 overall pick.
Otherwise, all the talk about tanking games at the end of the season is ignorant. The idea that there are only a select group of “blue chip” prospects (whatever the media thinks that is) is a joke.
In 2012, there were reportedly 6 blue chip guys. Luck, RG3, Richardson, Kalil, Blackomon, Claiborne. So how did that work out? Outside of Luck, not one of them would be drafted in the first round if there was a redraft.
I remember back in 2005, there were many people who admonished the Rams for beating the Niners and losing out on one of the blue chip guys. Good old Bernie chastised the Rams for missing out on Michael Huff because of that meaningless win. So how’d that turn out?
This is why Belichick advised his friend Dimitroff, the Falcons GM not to traded away the farm for Julio Jones. Julio is great, but the Falcons are a mess almost everywhere else. Imagine if Juiio was a bust? Not hard to imagine really. Just look at Washington and RG3.
Moral of the story….
Don’t trade away the farm to move up for any player (forget about getting a Luck, nobody is trading him away).
Don’t worry about not being high enough in the draft to get one of the “blue chip” players. History shows that’s a sham.
Whether the Rams draft 11 or 19, it makes no difference to me. Winning the next 2 games is much more important.
===============================I think that’s one of them there “go find one big recent example and then generalize all over the place” arguments.
Like, should you spend a high pick on a qb? Look at Kurt Warner.
What NE teaches me is, hire the best coach in football and keep him in place for more than a decade. YOu will win a lot of regular season games that way. Meanwhile, they are always among the 2-3 teams with the best record and favorites to win the superbowl. Heck in 2010 they were 14-2 and lost to the Jets in the playoffs.
But then off the top of my head I think of all those high picks the 70s Steelers had, plus the 90s Cowboys. Then closer to home….the Rams, with picks like Pace and Holt, which were top 10 picks.
So…what’s the generalization?
There’s lots of ways to do it.
I DO know that you don’t get a Greg Robinson picking below 10.
znModeratorYou know I looked up the top 12 guards as rated by PFF.
Interesting…there’s only 3 1st rounders in the bunch (Zeitler, Long, Martin).
Also.
The Rams showed more than usual interest the last 2 drafts in a couple of guards. In 2013 it was Larry Warford. He would have been the pick if Ogletree weren’t there. And of course in 2014, they were on the verge of trading up for Zack Martin but Dallas took him first. That’s good news because both are very good guards. That tells me Rams have a good eye for the premium guards.
The discount ones? Not so much…..
December 17, 2014 at 3:00 am in reply to: qbs who have started for the Rams since the 1995 move #14044znModeratorI’d like to suggest a list of
the Long-snappers since the Rams
moved to St.Louis.Okay.
I remember 3 of them.
Robinson.
Massey.
McQuaide.
There were more than 3 of them though. The others? …don’t know why but for some reason the NFL doesn’t want us to look too closely into the history of Rams long snappers. So it’s hard to search.
December 17, 2014 at 1:29 am in reply to: How good is Shaun Hill? Hill after the last 5 games #14025znModeratorSee what we have summoned.
That’s right. Board war.
Kidding of course. Hill is controversial at this point and there are clashing views of him. I think it’s interesting to see those contrasting views.
I wonder where folks will stand after the next 2 games.
I think he will bounce back to around the 88-90 qb rating level.
znModeratorIs Marc Trestman safe in Chicago after this season? ESPN’s Mike Sando joins The Fast Lane
znModeratorI heard a rumor that, if the Skins let go of Jay Gruden, as most expect, Brian Shottenheimer may get an interview at the end of the season. Not saying he will get the job, but it would be interesting if he ends up getting the Washington Head Coaching job.
Well, for the sake of continuity on offense with the Rams, and for the sake of Schott as a coach…I hope either the rumor is not true, or that he is smart enough to have nothing to do with Washington.
znModeratorFrom PFF
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/11/32-observations-week-14-3/
St. Louis Rams: Defensive tackle Aaron Donald has a Run Stop Percentage of 12.3% which is second-best for all defensive/nose tackles.
===
Me:
There’s also some gems in the article I posted in this thread by JT:
Donald’s 40-yard dash time itself was an eye-opening 4.68 seconds, the fifth-highest time of any defensive lineman at the 2014 combine, ends included.The first 10 yards of that 40 is what caused Waufle to do a double take.
“I was like, ‘Oh my gosh. This is unbelievable,’” Waufle recalled. “He has that initial quickness that people have a hard time with. He’s got natural leverage. He’s extremely strong.”
…
Last Tuesday on a conference call with St. Louis reporters, Arizona coach Bruce Arians was asked what concerns him about Donald.“Ha, ha. Everything,” Arians replied. “I like everything about him, and all of it concerns me. He’s a high-motor, very talented young guy that I was really sad to see go the Rams, ‘cause we’ve got to play him twice every year.”
znModeratorIf the Rams make no changes on their roster from 2014-2015 there will be 27 players next year with 4-7 years of experience on the team. There will also only be 6 players on the down side of the bell curve with over 7 years of experience.
I am not sure that is right. The draft class of 2012 will be completing their 3rd year this year. So next year they will have three years of experience. I don’t think there are 27 players on the Rams roster who came into the league in 2011 or before. I am guessing he means the players will be beginning their 4th through 7th years. This would include the 2012 players.
Also, there will be a number of players in the “experienced” catigory who will not be with the Rams next year, though I know the statement said if “no changes”.
The way you count years, it’s “in x year” not “x years behind you.” So in 2015, the class of 2012 will be in their 4th year. That’s what Jimi means, I think. I’ve always calculated it that way, myself–the year they are IN = their year. That’s the way, for example, the Rams official site lists it–players from the class of 2012 are now IN their 3rd year.
In terms of how many 4-7 year players there will be, according to the roster at the official site, counting IR, they now have 33 players who are in year 3 or more. Not all of those players will be there next year. Of those, I count 24 who will be IN years 4-7 (and are therefore now listed as being in years 3-6). If you go to the practice squad and count Conrath, it’s 25.
December 16, 2014 at 4:39 pm in reply to: Bill Polian says, "QB's and D-Line Are The Hardest To Find" #14005znModeratorDonald was a need because the Rams have an elite defensive end rusher in Quinn but they didnt have an elite defensive tackle. Now they do in Donald. He will allow the Rams to get consistent pressure up the middle as well as off the edge.
When I first read this, I thought that Polian was saying that. It is the posters opinion…
Yeah I will edit it so that’s more clear.
znModeratorIf the Rams decide to go with a rookie QB
next year…let us hope it does
not look like this:http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014121404/2014/REG15/bengals@browns#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000443236&tab=recap
Manziel might improve.
In fact I am holding my breath on it.
December 16, 2014 at 1:59 pm in reply to: How good is Shaun Hill? Hill after the last 5 games #13979znModeratorI think Hill sucks. He has a tendency to make the big mistake. Perfect examples is the end of the Chargers game and the last drive in the Cardinals game last Thursday.
You didn’t name the perfect examples, Grits, you named the only examples.
Meanwhile, he played well against a top D (Denver) and in fact has played decently overall.
December 16, 2014 at 1:44 pm in reply to: Which game is more important to you to win? Giants or Seahawks? #13978znModeratorWhich game is more important to you to win? Giants or Seahawks?
That’s a hard question to answer; I am not even sure it’s a fair question.
I want them to win both.
A loss to the Giants would mean bad things. So you want a win there.
A win in Seattle would mean great things. So you want a win there.
znModeratorI thot the Randy-K article was pretty sensible.
w
vRams Can Still Win with Schottenheimer
By Randy Karraker
http://www.101sports.com/2014/12/14/rams-need-can-still-win-schottenheimer/
I received a tweet from a guy wondering what I’ve seen from Rams offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer to make me think the Rams can win with him. … I asked what, specifically, he wanted to see from an offensive coordinator, he replied that he DIDN’T want to see a pass in an obvious running situation.
You know, to be honest, I am kind of getting tired of this kind of thing.
I know there will be complaints about coordinators, and that all around the NFL, fans go after the OC when a team loses. The OC is the default setting scapegoat.
But then there’s the type who comes across as pretending to be this playcalling genius while exposing that they have no idea what the Rams offense is ever even doing.
Here are some things to consider.
1. The Rams RARELY run on 3rd and 4th and short this year, and are not successful when they DO. That means, to me, that the OC is compensating for poor line play in power situations. AND interestingly if you look up which qbs excel throwing in that situation (3rd/4th short) HILL IS TIED FOR 1ST AMONG ALL QBS. In that situation he has an 85%+ completion percentage. What does that tell you. They know they can’t run effectively a high percentage of the time in that situation, so they have worked on being good at passing in that situation.
And then not all the plays work so we have some playcalling genius declaring that according to the Dogmatic Book of Things Fans Know and Coaches Don’t, those are RUNNING SITUATIONS so if they don’t run it;s bad. Jeesh.
2. This is part of Schott’s approach to football and has been since 2012. He will often put run-first personnel on the field and then throws from that. Think of all the big plays from Harkey and Kendricks over the years, where they are so wide open it’s impossible to miss them. That means Schott will run and run, and throw ball control passes, and then BANG set up play action from running situations with run personnel. It’s a thing. Always has been.
But the Dogmatic Book says you’re supposed to run in those situations so we get tweets to Karraker from the School of Playcalling Dogma.
—
My motto.
Look at what’s THERE.
Don’t apply a freaking dogma.
Look at what they actually DO.
December 16, 2014 at 10:02 am in reply to: How good is Shaun Hill? Hill after the last 5 games #13962znModeratorBut we are talking about a guy that’s been in the league for 13 years and has never been anyone’s starter. If u are saying the rams should bring him back to be the starter next season, i couldn’t disagree more.
Well I am not saying he should be “brought back as the starter” and I don’t think Mack is either. He should be brought back though since next year is going to be interesting in terms of the qb situation. And having an experienced qb who knows the system and the players would be a plus.
In terms of his 13 years, I don’t judge that…sometimes a guy ends up in the right place at the right time and comes through. For example, the last time Hill got several consecutive starts, 2010 in Detroit, the Lions had a below average defense and no running game. It’s true that Hill has streaky accuracy. But IMO he makes up for that by being smart about the game.
I think the difference between Bradford and Hill, while there are a lot of them, can be reduced to this: if Bradford has a healthy OL and a running threat, whether or not the run game is working in a given game, he can play. Hill needs both the healthy OL AND for the run game to be working.
The rookie they will bring in? Who knows yet.
I think Hill is the best #2 qb they’ve had since Green in 2000 and Bulger in 2002. (Though both were better than Hill.)
I would not trust the qb to be pushed into the situation of being a consecutive games starter if it were Jamie Martin, AJ Feeley, Kellen Clemens, Kyle Boller, etc. But Hill, to me, is a cut above that.
So I agree with Mack that the ARz game tripped him up, but to me it didn’t “expose him” per se the way Davis was exposed, for example. I expect him to bounce back, at least against the Giants (I don’t know about Seattle on the road but we’ll see).
December 16, 2014 at 1:45 am in reply to: How good is Shaun Hill? Hill after the last 5 games #13954znModeratorI don’t know about the numbers but after watching the Washington game Hill was not at all impressive in my view anyway.Looks like the same thing that happened to Davis when he started playing against good Defenses, they have recent film on him now. When he gets rattled he throws way too high and ball security goes to shit. A number of the “good throws” were in reality great plays by Britt and Bailey on poorly thrown balls.Vermeil said backups can have a good game or two but to win consistently you need more talent at the QB position. He also said they should get rid of Long because he gave up the hit that took Bradford out. </span></span>
It is true that the ARz defense got to the Rams OL and that had an effect on Hill. But from what I saw, nothing about it was Davis level. And in fact all that happened there, to me, was that a defense that matches up well with the Rams offense did to Hill what the Rams defense did to Manning this year and Luck last year.
Not that Hill is Luck or Manning, but he is better than that one game. Evidence of that was the way they broke out late in the 4th and drove on ARz, and that included some timely sharp throws from Hill. It wasn’t enough that game, but he did not melt down Davis style.
December 16, 2014 at 1:39 am in reply to: reporters, analysts etc, do the post-mortem on the ARZ game #13952znModeratorRams Can Still Win with Schottenheimer
By Randy Karraker
http://www.101sports.com/2014/12/14/rams-need-can-still-win-schottenheimer/
I received a tweet from a guy wondering what I’ve seen from Rams offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer to make me think the Rams can win with him. I pointed out that, despite losing their top receiver in Brian Quick, their left tackle Jake Long and quarterback Sam Bradford, the Rams were seventeenth in the NFL in points scored.
I asked what, specifically, he wanted to see from an offensive coordinator, he replied that he DIDN’T want to see a pass in an obvious running situation. I wasn’t sure if he was referring to the 3rd and goal from the one yard line against Dallas (a touchdown pass to Lance Kendricks) or a 1st and 10 play against Denver from the Rams 37 (a 63 yard TD to Kenny Britt), but I pointed out this little factoid: over the last three seasons, the highest scoring teams in the NFL have been Denver (1,472 points), New England (1,402), Green Bay (1,273) and Indianapolis (1,155)
Each of those teams has had an offensive coordinator leave for a head coaching job in that time. Mike McCoy left Denver for San Diego, Bill O’Brien left New England for Penn State and then the Texans, Joe Philbin left the Packers for Miami, and Bruce Arians left Indianapolis for Arizona.
Are those teams THAT good at identifying offensive coordinators, or is there something else at work here?
I would suggest that it’s something else.
That something would be franchise quarterbacks Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck. Not surprisingly, those four are among the touchdown pass leaders in the NFL over that period…with Manning throwing 128, Rodgers 91 (despite missing seven games in 2013), Brady 89 and Luck 82.
So I must ask the question; does the coordinator make the offense, or does the quarterback? When Rodgers was out for seven games in Green Bay last year, they averaged 21.7 points per game. When he played, they averaged 29.4. Same offensive coordinator. Same play caller. Same supporting cast. Different results. Manning’s injury in Indianapolis turned a team that scored between 377 and 522 points for eight straight years into a 243 point offense. Same offensive staff, but a different quarterback, and a much worse offense.
Not that there’s no reason to question Schottenheimer. We all love to question and criticize play calling. But the best coordinators, the guys who wind up getting head coaching jobs, are inevitably the guys who have the best quarterbacks to work with.
Another tweet I received after the 12-6 loss to Arizona said “I guess we can stop talking about how the Rams are ‘close.’ Tonight showed pretender vs contender.” I would suggest that wins over the Seahawks, Broncos and 49ers at San Francisco provide evidence that the Rams are close to being competitive for a playoff spot. A bad team, like the Rams teams of 2008, 2009 and 2011 would have had no chance against those teams. In fact, that team lost by an average of 13.4 points per game. This Rams team has been outscored by a TOTAL of six points all season. As good fans know, a team can be close to being good but not be in the playoffs. That doesn’t make them bad. The Rams right now define mediocre. They’re likely to win seven games for a third straight year.
However, if you would have told me before that monstrous nine game stretch of Dallas, Philadelphia, San Francisco (twice), Seattle, Kansas City, Arizona, Denver and San Diego that they’d go 3-6 without their three highest paid players, I would have taken it. Especially after an 0-3 start to that stretch.
At the end of the day, I don’t judge teams on one game. I’m going to take a longer view. And in MY view, the Rams are a much better team than the one that allowed either 34 or 31 points six times in their first nine games. In fact, since the last time the Rams allowed 31 or 34 (34 against Arizona in game nine), they’ve allowed 46 points in five games. So I see progress. The Rams ARE close. They need a quarterback and they need to add muscle and toughness on the offensive line. And like every other team, they need to add young depth throughout the roster, especially at linebacker and cornerback. But to say the Rams aren’t close because of the loss to Arizona is ridiculous.
I love the reactionary passion after wins or losses, but in football it’s important to get away from emotion and look at reality.
znModeratorWell, styles make fights and Davin Joseph (and Wells) struggles with power. It wasn’t just Rucker giving him fits, either…
What a time to have a terrible game…
You know my take on that game was that the OL struggled, and so did Hill, BUT they could have still won if the defense held up.
I don’t know how many people noticed, but their 2nd half struggles were a direct result of playing it conservative in situations where field position dictated it.
So yeah they had all those three and outs, but they just refused to do anything that potentially led to defensive big plays.
Not till time ran down. We’ve seen it before…this team plays differently in the 4th when it’s time to seal or get a win.
My point is, if it was ONLY the ARz defense stifling them, how do we explain this drive? I start after the offensive pass interference that made it 2nd and 20 from the 23. Of course they only got a field goal from this but still.
quarter time down distance play
4 10:10 2 20 RAM 23 Shaun Hill pass complete deep right to Stedman Bailey for 38 yards (tackle by Jerraud Powers)
4 9:29 1 10 CRD 39 Tavon Austin right end for 8 yards (tackle by Deone Bucannon)
4 8:58 2 2 CRD 31 Stedman Bailey left end for 13 yards (tackle by Alex Okafor and Jerraud Powers)
4 8:22 1 10 CRD 18 Penalty on Dan Williams: Encroachment, 5 yards (no play)
4 8:02 1 5 CRD 13 Shaun Hill pass complete short left to Kenny Britt for 6 yards (tackle by Tony Jefferson and Antonio Cromartie)
4 7:29 1 7 CRD 7 Tre Mason up the middle for no gain (tackle by Calais Campbell)
4 6:53 2 7 CRD 7 Shaun Hill pass complete short middle to Stedman Bailey for 6 yards (tackle by Jerraud Powers) -
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