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znModeratorZooey wrote:
This is my first damn post.I wish we still had everyone’s first post.
I assume yours was in 1998 same as me.
I think yours was about Leonard Little
and mine was about one of the monsters
on Lost In Space.w
vI just remember Fast Eddie and Ramble arguing about whether Vermeil would get fired or win a superbowl.
Those were the days when devoted Rams fans were all actively wishing Jay Zygmunt would just take over the team and run it right.
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znModeratorBradford was completing around 60 percent of his passes and the only quarterback to throw fewer interceptions than Bradford was Peyton Manning. But those were bloated numbers that came during the last quarter or few minutes of the game. Since being drafted by St. Louis in 2010, the verdict is still out on Bradford, which is a pretty generous ruling.
is this actually true?
looking at his splits from espn.com
his qb rating when they won by 0-7 points was 93.1.
his qb rating when they won by 8-14 points was 105.3.
his qb rating when they won by more than 15 points actually went down to 85.9.his qb rating in the 4th quarter +/- 7 points was 136.0.
unless i’m reading this wrong he performed well during close games when they needed him to…
Yes. In 2012 he has 4 comebacks and/or game winning drives at the end. In 2013 he has one.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=BradSa00
And people have been over and over this “garbage time” thing…it’s nonsense. The Atlanta game was contested after the Falcons jumped out in the 1st half.
Anyway. I don’t know how many of our gang here are heavily anti-Bradford. I know there are skeptics, neutrals, and “want to see it in 2014” posters. So to me, and probably you and ER too, the thing is not that the “writer” is skeptical about SB…that’s fine, I get that, and it’s a topic worth debating. It’s that he makes a poor case, and makes fact claims that don’t stand up. Let’s just say he has a problem with accuracy.
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znModeratorMaddy wrote:
I do not see this post you post of. What thread would it be under?I forgot to link it. Sry. I will correct that via edit.
znModeratorI think that was either just one season? or 2 seasons? or not really all of them.
Yeah that was 2011. On Kendricks and Pettis … in their defense, I bet they make a couple of those in later years. But 2011 is hard to watch.
znModeratorI think that was either just one season? or 2 seasons? or not really all of them.
July 13, 2014 at 9:44 pm in reply to: buncha pre-camp "Rams preview" articles, pre-season rankings, & vids #1676znModeratorHave you ever noticed that when you make a post on that site directed at the OP,it somehow gets deleted?
You mean Pro Football Talk?
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znModeratorBradford cannot throw the deep ball accurately.
Who are these kids these kinds of places get to write their fanblogs for them?
Bradford has good deep ball accuracy.
I quick checked some numbers.
Bradford’s completion percentage on passes of 31 yards or more is behind Manning, Brees and Rodgers. They are actually tops in the game IMO. But Bradford is just behind Romo and ahead of Brady, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Flacco, Newton Kaepernick, Wilson, and Luck.
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Maybe the guy doesn’t understand deep ball accuracy. Brees is very good with 39%.And maybe he doesn’t get how rarely those kinds of passes are thrown. In the little bit I looked at the most was Flacco with 69 attempts in 2 seasons combined. Brees was close behind him with 67. Rodgers only has 24 attempts in his last 25 games (that’s all he played in 2012 + 2013). Bradford had 37 in 23 games, which in 32 games would be 51…which in terms of just attempts would put him ahead of Brady, Stafford, Roethlisberger, Romo, CK, Wilson, Rodgers, and Manning. He would be 1 attempt behind Luck.
znModeratorOffseason Position Preview: Quarterbacks
Tim Godfrey
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/offseason_position_preview_quarterbacks/16834072
Despite his numbers throughout the first five weeks of the 2013 season, Sam Bradford wasn’t having the best season. The team was 1-3 with him starting under center and 2-0 the next two weeks, thanks to special teams and the defense taking advantage of a weak Jacksonville offense.
Bradford was completing around 60 percent of his passes and the only quarterback to throw fewer interceptions than Bradford was Peyton Manning. But those were bloated numbers that came during the last quarter or few minutes of the game. Since being drafted by St. Louis in 2010, the verdict is still out on Bradford, which is a pretty generous ruling.
The team’s goals however, are not dependent upon Bradford’s health and success. As shown last year, the Rams still have a chance without #8 under center.
Sam Bradford: The former Heisman Trophy winner will be heading into his fifth year with a freshly repaired ACL, which he tore in a Week Six matchup at Carolina. Offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer will no doubt take the comeback slow, relying more on the ground attack and trick plays via Tavon Austin.
Once Bradford becomes more comfortable with his new teammates in real game situations, expect him to throw the ball. Schottenheimer and head coach Jeff Fisher will want to utilize their weapons way more than they did last year. This means Kenny Britt, Brian Quick, Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey (after he returns from his PED suspension) will be seeing a lot of action, as well as the usual suspects, i.e., Chris Givens, Lance Kendricks and Jared Cook.
Bradford’s strength is his short game, which is what he heavily relies on. His comfort zone is anywhere within 20 yards of the line of scrimmage, which leads us to examine Bradford’s weaknesses…
Bradford cannot throw the deep ball accurately. There was a time where he and Givens made quite a few deep plays in 2012, but every year before and since that season, Bradford has been pedestrian at best. Bradford has the arm and he has precision, but confidence in his deep throws is what he lacks.
znModerator*like*
Our offense does not have super-studs. But it has the POTENTIAL for a synergy that would be above average. And that would include the passing game
I think that’s all true.
I don’t know which skill guys are going to step up and do what in this offense, but I would think it would be at least as good as the Carolina game showed they could be.
.July 13, 2014 at 11:33 am in reply to: buncha pre-camp "Rams preview" articles, pre-season rankings, & vids #1650znModeratorSam Bradford is entering the final year of his rookie contract.
That’s not correct. As most here know, 2015 is his final year.
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July 13, 2014 at 11:30 am in reply to: buncha pre-camp "Rams preview" articles, pre-season rankings, & vids #1649znModeratorPreseason Power Rankings No. 20: St. Louis Rams
Curtis Crabtree
July 13The St. Louis Rams were a trendy pick to possibly make a push for the playoffs last season. A 1-3 start to the season put the Rams in a hole and losing Sam Bradford for the year after seven games was the final nail in the coffin to their playoff aspirations.
But the Rams could take positives out of last year’s performances. Their defense became a nightmare to opposing quarterbacks as Chris Long and Robert Quinn led a scary defensive front and Zac Stacy showed promise as a possible replacement for Steven Jackson.
Unfortunately for St. Louis, they find themselves at the bottom of the best division in the NFL.The Rams added 11 draft picks to their roster as the continue to retool their talent under head coach Jeff Fisher. What are the prospects for the upcoming season? We take a look at the roster below as training camp approaches.
Strengths.
St. Louis may have the best defensive front in all of football. With Chris Long and Robert Quinn combining for 27.5 sacks last season and Michael Brockers and Aaron Donald manning the interior, the Rams will be a handful for any offensive line their square off against. In addition, the Rams still have depth along their front with Kendall Langford, Eugene Sims and William Hayes as rotational players.
James Laurinaitis and Alec Ogletree give the Rams a nice pair of linebackers they can rely on. Also, Jared Cook and Lance Kendricks are a dependable tight end pair.
Greg Zuerlein and Johnny Hekker provide a strong duo of specialists as well for St. Louis.
Weaknesses.
While the Rams defense proved fearsome at times last season, there were still a could problem areas on that side of the ball. Jo-Lonn Dunbar and Will Witherspoon struggled at times at the strong-side linebacker spot. In addition, Darian Stewart and Rodney McLeod had issues at safety after T.J. McDonald suffered a broken leg and was placed on the short-term injured reserve list. Those areas remain question marks heading into training camp.
St. Louis is still lacking a true No. 1 option at receiver and depth in their secondary as well.
Changes.
Cortland Finnegan was released by the Rams over the offseason, which elevated Janoris Jenkins and Trumaine Johnson into the presumed starting roles ahead of training camp. Johnson could get pushed for his starting job by rookie Lamarcus Joyner, but Joyner may be best suited in the slot.
First-round selections Greg Robinson and Aaron Donald both should slot into the starting lineup on each side of the ball. Robinson is slated to replace the departed Chris Williams at left guard with Donald supplanting Kendall Langford at defensive tackle.
Camp battles.
Most of the major position battles should come on the defensive side of the ball for the Rams. Jo-Lonn Dunbar and Ray-Ray Armstrong will battle for the third linebacker position, Trumaine Johnson could be pushed by second-round pick Lamarcus Joyner for the starting job opposite Janoris Jenkins at cornerback and Rodney McLeod could be challenged by fourth-round pick Mo Alexander at safety.
On the offensive side of the ball, the receiver position seems to be wide open. Tavon Austin’s role is secure as caught more passes than any other St. Louis receiver last year.. However, the Rams have a gaggle of receiving options behind Austin without much separation between them. Chris Givens likely enters camp as the team’s top option on the perimeter after leading the receiving corps with 569 yards last year. Kenny Britt, Austin Pettis, Stedman Bailey and Brian Quick all will be vying for playing time as well.
In addition, Isaiah Pead and third-round pick Tre Mason will likely battle for the backup role to starter Zac Stacy at running back.
Prospects.
The Rams sit looking up at the best division in football. Seattle and San Francisco met in the NFC Championship game last season and the Arizona Cardinals were playing as well as anyone at the end of the regular season.
St. Louis faces the real possibility of being an improved team but still not seeing much improvement in their overall record.
Sam Bradford is entering the final year of his rookie contract. The Rams could take a bigger leap than anticipated if Bradford can finally take the step forward in proving he can be one of the league’s better signal callers. Bradford was completing nearly 61 percent of his passes and had posted a 14-4 touchdown-to-interception ratio before his season ended due to injury.
The Rams keep taking baby steps in their quest to improve from their decade of futility. However, they’ll need more than baby steps of improvement to run down the teams at the top of their division.
znModeratorI think the article’s projection for the Rams of about 58% passing sounds right.
Just exploring the topic generally…forget the article…I’m not sure how valid 2013 stats will be on this. 9 games were with Clemens at qb…and that meant they had to run to win. Running the ball is an entirely different thing with Bradford, since unlike Clemens he can challenge defenses passing.
They could run in 2012 too with Jackson, and the result for the season was a pass/run ratio of 34.8 to 25.6. That’s around 58% passing.
Not sure about these Rams “will be Seattle” claims you hear sometimes.
In 2013, Seattle was ranked 31st in passing attempts and in 2nd in rushing attempts. They passed 45% of the time.
In 2013, SF was ranked 32nd in passing attempts and in 3rd in rushing attempts. They too passed 45% of the time.
In 2012…12 not 13…the Rams were ranked 17th in passing attempts and 22nd in rushing attempts. As I said they passed 58% of the time.
Forget the Rams in 2013. Richardson couldn’t run in the 1st 4 games, and then Clemens started 9 of the remaining 12 games. The stats will be skewed.
Also, related to all this, Bradford’s play action is first rate, so that will fit into a tough power running game.
Oh and I don’t expect SF and Seattle to remain at the bottom in passing attempts. Unlike the popular perception of them, both teams made concerted efforts to upgrade at WR.
So I think this idea that the NFC west means heavy run to pass ratios will hold up, but I also think eventually all 4 teams will be meeting in the middle when it comes to that. I think Rams pass attempts will remain more or less what they were in 2012, and both SF and Seattle will eventually (maybe this year) pass more that they did…meaning, will pass a higher percentage of the time compared to what they did in 2013.
July 13, 2014 at 12:11 am in reply to: First Spectacular Supermoon Of 2014 Will Peak This Saturday #1601znModeratorznModeratorFROM JETS SHOULD PASS ON QB
NY POST
By Steve Serby
http://www,nypost.com/sports/jets/64600.htm%5DNY Post
http://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/article-jets-should-pass-on-qb.4619/The draft expert I trust the most, because of his experience as college scouting administrator from 1994-98 for the Rams and Midwest scout from 2001-04 for the Browns, is GMjr.com’s Russ Lande.
Leinart’s Hail Mary task will be to convince Mangini, Tannenbaum and rookie offensive coordinator Brian Schotteheimer that:
* He is not a celebrity Hollywood quarterback who lists Paris Hilton as a friend.
* It is not a red flag that he last week fired superagent Leigh Steinberg.
“I don’t think he’s anywhere near a franchise quarterback,” Lande said. “Personally, I would not take him in the first round. I gave him a second-round grade.”
Lande was more accurate than most when he gave Tom Brady, the Patriots’ sixth-round pick out of Michigan in 2000, a third-round grade.
“I compare Leinart to Brady; very very similar in almost every category I grade,” Lande said.
There are questions about Leinart’s arm strength.
“He can make all the throws; he can’t make them with unbelievable zip on them,” Lande said.
Young’s warts include that dreadful Wonderlic score and an alarmingly-low release point.
“I think he has all the tools to be a franchise quarterback,” Lande said. “He’s a developmental guy. He’s just more of a risk.”
Lande favors Leinart over Young.
“There are so many mistakes made with quarterbacks; I’d take the guy I think is the surest thing,” he said.
Jay Cutler of Vanderbilt has been compared with Brett Favre, and I know that Phil Simms likes him.
“Probably the most intriguing of the quarterbacks,” Lande said. “All the physical tools are there to be an elite quarterback.”
But?
“He’s a very inconsistent guy accuracy-wise right now,” Lande said.
Lande’s second-favorite quarterback is Oregon’s Kellen Clemens, who has recovered from a broken ankle and will meet with the Jets Wednesday. Lande likes his quick release, arm strength, accuracy and toughness.
He has Alabama QB Brodie Croyle rated no higher than the fourth round because of durability concerns.
“He’s thin throughout his whole body,” Lande says.
On little more than an educated guess, Lande gave the Jets Ngata in his mock draft to play the nose in their new 3-4.
He thinks the Jets have covered their bases for now with Chad Pennington and Patrick Ramsey, and would do well by taking Davis (“This kid, to me, is a better receiver than Kellen Winslow”winking smiley or Ferguson (“He’ll start from Day 1 and by the second or third year he’ll be outstanding”winking smiley.
Remember, the Jets will have a chance to get quality players to address two of their other needs with the 29th pick they received in the John Abraham trade and the 35th pick.
No one is saying that they don’t need a Quarterback of the Future. But the worst thing a franchise can do is to give in to public pressure and reach for a franchise quarterback just because fans and media think he might be the savior.
znModerator“I think the addition of Kenny Britt will be a huge boost for the Rams offense,” Witherspoon told SiriusXM NFL Radio on Thursday. “I expect him to blossom into a star.”
Well, it would sure come in handy.
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znModeratorHad to move this one, TSRF. The post before this one explains why. Hope you understand.
July 12, 2014 at 2:18 pm in reply to: Listen to the oldest song in the world…a 3400 year old Sumerian hymn… #1578znModerator[this post is really pasted together fragments from wikipedia]
The oldest incomplete annotated piece of ancient music is a Hurrian song, a hymn in Ugaritic cuneiform syllabic writing which was dedicated to Nikkal. The Hurrian hymn to Nikkal (also known as the Hurrian cult hymn or A Zaluzi to the Gods, or simply h.6), making it the oldest surviving substantially complete work of notated music in the world. It is clearly a religious text concerning offerings to the goddess Nikkal, wife of the moon god.
Nikkal, full name Nikkal-wa-Ib, is a goddess of Ugarit/Canaan and later of Phoenicia. She is a goddess of orchards, whose name means “Great Lady and Fruitful” and derives from Akkadian / West Semitic “´Ilat ´Inbi” meaning “Goddess of Fruit”. De Moor translates Ugaritic
znModeratorSam is constantly evaluated in relationship to the elite level. That’s perhaps inevitable with a #1 overall. But the discussion is always, “will he break out and become an elite QB this year?” And while that question is legitimate, the sole alternative should not be “bust.” Even if the critics are right and Sam turns out not to be elite, he will give you solid and that is not a bust!
*like*
Yeah I bet we see SB very similarly. IMO unless he regresses…and anything can happen…he ought to be better than just solid.
I don’t think I ever thought he would be elite, though. (I don’t think you did either. That’s my impression.) Meaning, elite being the level of Brady, Luck, and Manning. Or even the (to me) NEAR elite guys like Brees and Rodgers. I think his ceiling is similar to what Rivers was doing last year, or Flacco in 2012 (with a running game).
I’m obviously on record as saying you don’t need an elite qb to win the Whole Enchilada.
You re-watched the games, right? What did you like about Bradford?
…znModeratorWell, I don’t consider Bradford a gamble at all. I think this season will finally put an end to the media’s ‘wondering’ about the abilities of Sam Bradford.
Yeah it’s interesting to see how a different analysis sees the same issue.
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/s-i-offseason-report-card-rams-2/
Will that ascension happen in 2014? Well, it could, if Bradford picks up where he left off last season pre-injury and all that youth matures.Even if the process takes another year, though, this is all headed in the right direction. This current offseason only tossed more coal into the fire.
One say, Bradford and all his issues = a gamble. The other (quoted here) says, Bradford just needs to pick up where he left off.
If I were to be a complete homer about this, my interpretation is–one guy (Burke, the “just needs to keep it up” guy) saw more Rams games than the other guy (Lande) did.
,,
znModeratorHowdy TSRF. Welcome aboard. Your other post is on the Board Policies and Issues Board.
znModeratorHello TSRF. We worried about you. How did you finally find us? I had no email, and so on. I didn’t know this thread was still on the Rams board though so I am going to move it to the Board Policies and Issues board.
Here’s a good thread to join in the festiveness of all this–moving, finding people again…
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/ever-wandering-lost-tribe-of-ram-fans/
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July 11, 2014 at 10:11 pm in reply to: Listen to the oldest song in the world…a 3400 year old Sumerian hymn… #1529znModeratorThen i think its only fair if i bring in other positions. For example
i would argue that “Running RBs” get tackled less
than stationary pocket RBs.Think about that algebra, right there.
w
vLook, now you’re just running circles around me. You said you would only do that when I defended fumblers.
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znModerator“Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe“We all of us live upon the past, and through the past we are destroyed.”
― Johann Wolfgang von GoetheExample.
% of medium passes.
With Hill and Davis after 2 games:
% of total passes thrown 10 yards & under:
% of total passes thrown 11-20 yards:
% of total passes thrown 21-30 yards:
% of total passes thrown 31+ yards:-
This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by zn.
znModeratorWell, i’m not even sure i would agree that there is one
category we could call ‘running QB.’Ya know. There’s Staubach. And Kaepernik. And Tarkenton.
And Russell Wilson. And Steve Young. And Montana. And Rothlisberger.
And Cam Newton. And Randall Cunningham. Troy Aikman. And RG3. And even Andrew Luck.I’m not sure, but i think there are different categories QBs in that group.
w
vWell, when you get down into the details…that’s true. But I’m fine for now with the simple difference in 2 categories.
I think it’s roughly true that there’s a style of qb who uses his legs as a part of his game–to run or to scramble or to both–and then pocket passers who have varying degrees of lesser mobility.
So for example Bradford is more mobile than Warner but as long as I’m relying on rough categories, I put them both on the “pure pocket passer” side.
So Bradford v. Newton in its own different way amounts to the same as Warner v. McNair.
znModeratorFROM Analysis: Best quarterbacks are more than passers
By Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange
read the whole article: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/analysis-best-quarterbacks-more-passers-150802859–nfl.html
ST. LOUIS RAMS
–QUARTERBACKS: Starter — Sam Bradford. Backups – Shaun Hill, Garrett Gilbert, Austin Davis.
Returning from a torn ACL injury that short-circuited his 2013 season, Bradford knows the pressure there is simply to stay on the field. Including his final season at Oklahoma, Bradford has had injuries that affected his play in three of the last five seasons. With the Rams, in addition to 2013, there was a 2011 season affected by a high ankle sprain. He was playing well when the knee injury occurred last season, and he expects to pick up where he left off. Hill replaces Kellen Clemens as the backup, and if he has to play, the passing offense will not be as diminished as it was when Clemens had to play. The Rams like the potential of the rookie Gilbert, and he is expected to win the No. 3 job over Davis, who was cut at the end of the preseason last year only to be brought back after Bradford was injured.
znModeratorWell for me, the statement “running qbs get sacked more” is perplexing.
I’m not sure what that ‘means’ to you.I mean, would Roger Staubach have been a better QB
if he had stayed in the pocket all the time?
Would Elway or Steve Young have been better
without running ability? Would Russell Wilson be
better if he had no running ability?
Would Rothlisberger be more or less
dangerous if he had no running ability?Obviously the ability to run is a ‘good thing’.
So, I’m not sure what your meta-point is here.
Steve Young, John Elway, Joe Montana,
Ben Rothlisberger, Roger Staubach…Ya know.
There’s running-quarterbacks, and there’s
running quarterbacks.Some of the Running-QBs are just bad QBs.
w
vSometimes, I will just bite off small pieces and given em a good chew. Like, if this were science, I would have just carbon dated a fossil. Doing that isn’t a commentary on the nature of human existence.
So, I’m not thinking about the general category of “the running/mobile qb” or judging the type in general or downgrading them.
I was just kicking around the idea that running qbs get sacked more. The context of that is, debates over the years with guys who say they get sacked LESS. For example, last fall, I had debates with some guys who said that because he was more mobile, Clemens got sacked less than SB. Actually he got sacked at a higher rate. Whenever this kind of thing comes up, in fact, I say the same thing–the r/m qb gets sacked more, not less.
So it just occurred to me to ask, have I ever actually seen that quantified? I looked. No one had done it, not that I saw in a fast search. So, I just went ahead and did it.
So I haven’t even climbed the ladder yet up to the more complicated issue of comparing them.
I think all I showed is that in terms of sack percentages, the pocket passer tends to do better.
But someone could easily say, yeah, well, but, there are other advantages to having a r/m qb that balance that. And I would probably go…sure.
July 11, 2014 at 4:36 pm in reply to: Isaac Bruce is a Candlestick Legend….. will have Joe Montana as QB #1512znModeratorIt annoyed me, Ike didn’t retire as a Ram.
Now, I understand that as a Seattle fan, it’s your duty to mislead and confuse Rams fans. I get that, and respect it.
But in this case…you’re messing around with Wikipedia.
Wikipedia
On June 7, 2010 Bruce was traded from the 49ers to the Rams so that he would be able to retire as a Ram. Bruce was the last member of the former Los Angeles Rams to retire.
“Bruce to retire as Ram after trade.” June 8, 2010. ESPN.com news services. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5261130
“Snap Judgments: Bruce retirement ends last link to Los Angeles Rams”. CNN. June 8, 2010. http://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/06/08/isaac-bruce
znModeratorCal and Pancake.
I had to move your posts to this closed “history” thread for a couple of reasons. I hope you understand. There’s a rule against attacking even absent posters, and this closed thread is the only exception we can allow. I have a dilemma with that…if I followed the “no attacking posters” rule IN this thread I would have to delete half of it. The topic is emotional and sadly leads to personal clashes. Yet people have a right to see the history and decide for themselves, and it is difficult (from the point of view of a mod) to sort out what is mere emotion and what is a perspective on the history. So that means this thread must be the only (sad) exception to the no attack rule, or there is no rule.
So the best thing, however paradoxical, is to move them to this closed thread. However, neither am I going to encourage the kind of bickering we remember all too well from the old huddle board wars. Everyone has a view. Most here just dislike conflict of any kind anyway. My own personal advice is just let it go, and move on.
What I want is for people to read this thread weeks and even months from now, and be able to make up their own individual minds about what happened and who saw it what way and why.
znModerator
YEAH THAT’S RIGHT SHOW OFF YOUR ADAM’S APPLE. YEAH IT’S NICE MR. SHOW-OFF. BUT DON’T THINK WE’RE ENVIOUS CAUSE WE’RE NOT, MR. GOT IT SO FLAUNT IT.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by
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