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znModeratorIs that orangutan video a metaphor of some kind?
Yes. Just trying to weave some humor in. In the vid, there is something at first, then nothing, which the orangutan finds funny. The joke is that’s like the offense. Started out okay, then nothing.
Maybe it’s hard to find humor in this?
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December 10, 2015 at 7:39 am in reply to: Fisher, Boras, Keenum … 12/9 … transcripts, + Boras vid #35457znModeratorBoras seems awfully….nice.
He didn’t strike me as terribly ready for this.
“Hey honey, I just dropped in for a sec to tell you the plumber called and he can do next week, oh and here, here’s a scalpel, you need to do the surgery on the kids, it’s important, okay?”
znModeratorImo Warner owes much to Martz If Martz doesn’t come to St. Louis and insist on moving on from Tony Banks I doubt anyone ever hears of Warner.
Well I will say this much. First, when Warner told that story, he wasn;t dissing Martz. He was just talking about what happened in an exciting play. That was an innocent moment on Kurt’s part, when he told that story (which was years ago). At that point he wasn’t contradicting anything Martz had said.
And Martz wasn’t the sole reason DV dumped Banks. The St. Louis press tended to report it that way, but national sources talked to other guys. Green’s agent made it clear that Trent would not sign unless he were designated the starter. That meant dumping Banks. That meant Vermeil had to make what was for him a tough decision, and he talked to a lot of people. The national sources tended to talk to DV’s old friend, the TE coach, Lynn Stiles. Remember this was at the time this was reported. Stiles made it clear that DV talked to a lot of people, including him, and that they all had an impact, including Stiles. Stiles said he talked DV into letting Banks go. Of course, Stiles didn’t know what Martz said and Martz didn’t know what Stiles said. So anyway, yes MM had incredible strengths as a coach…but just on this one issue, he wasn’t the sole defining reason DV moved on from Banks.
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znModeratorWell Robert Quinn is my favorite player on this
team.Well wait till this week. Remember? This is the week where Todd Gurley and Aaron Donald collide during warm-ups and take each other out.
That was in the memo. Look it over again, you’ll see.
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You know I realize there’s a pattern.
2007. Multiple OL injuries, Bulger begins the Bulgerization process. When recently asked if he ever played with a concussion, he kind of snort/laughs and basically says “duh.”
2008, 2009, 2010.
2011. 4 years later. An injury spectacle that is beyond description. Rams are forced to sign more cornerbacks than actually exist in real time and space. They hire a new front office assistant whose sole job is to sign cornerbacks.
2012, 2013, 2014.
2015. 4/8 years later. Ogletree, Quinn, McDonald, Gaines, Bailey, Brown, and so on.I keep thinking…H.P. Lovecraft.
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znModeratorQuinn they say is a nerve thing. Don’t know what that means, but I don’t think Carter’s issue was that. I think it was something else.
That’s kind of vague but I haven’t had coffee yet. So I don’t have enough mental energy to make something up, then fabricate the sources, make it look like they are linked to an official media site, and so on.
znModeratorI bet he makes it.
December 10, 2015 at 4:26 am in reply to: Fisher, Boras, Keenum … 12/9 … transcripts, + Boras vid #35441znModeratorThis article just patches together quotations from the Boras press conference posted above, so I just put it here.
———-
Boras diving into new coordinator duties
Jim Thomas
Rob Boras is sleep-deprived. More sleep-deprived than is usually the case for assistant coaches in the middle of a football season. Two days on his new job feels like a month.
“My wife’s still waiting for me to call,” Boras quipped.
Even his texts back to the home front have been streamlined to save time. “Emojis now,” Boras explained. “So you don’t have to type a whole word. I just type a heart.”
As in “I (heart) you.” Or “I (heart) offense.”
Boras found out at midday Monday he was replacing Frank Cignetti as the Rams’ offensive coordinator. Although he was given the extra title of assistant head coach/offense this season, Boras’ main responsibility since coming to St. Louis in 2012 as part of Jeff Fisher’s original Rams staff has been tight ends coach.
As such, he worked closely with only four to five players every day. Now, he’s basically responsible for half the roster — the entire offense. That’s called raising your profile. Are the players treating him any differently?
“A couple of ’em have learned my name,” Boras joked. “No, it’s a great group of guys. We all have our ups and downs, but the thing we’ve said since we’ve been here — we have really good people in the locker room. They’re willing to do what they’re asked to do. We’ve just gotta be smart to ask ’em to do the right things.”
Wednesday marked Boras’ first practice as offensive coordinator, and yes, Fisher said Boras knew where to stand.
“He did great,” Fisher said, smiling.
On Sunday against visiting Detroit, Boras will do his first play-calling since 2003, when he was offensive coordinator at the University of Nevada-Las Vegas. So there will be an adjustment period.
“I’d be lying if I said, ‘No,’” Boras said. “Yeah, there’s gonna be an adjustment. That’s part of the process and it’s not gonna be perfect. Football isn’t perfect. I’m not gonna be perfect. Plays aren’t perfect — that’s why you trust your players to move forward.”
But Fisher re-iterated Wednesday that he has no qualms about Boras’ play-calling on game day, despite his lack of experience.
“The big challenge is the game plan during the week,” Fisher said. “Getting the plays called and getting ’em in, no he’s not gonna have any difficulty. No concerns about that.”
Cignetti’s dismissal came as a total surprise, Boras said. From a player’s vantage point, it underscored the point that little is guaranteed in the NFL. Or in life.
“We’ve had a lot of eye-opening things happen on this team the last couple weeks,” Boras said. “Stedman (Bailey, who was shot recently). ‘Cig.’ All we’re guaranteed is today.”
With that in mind, the new mantra at Rams Park, Boras said, is “let’s win today.” To win Sunday, the Rams obviously must do much better on offense, in which they are at or near the bottom in several key categories. But it’s impossible to reinvent the wheel 12 games into the season. So radical changes in terms of play-calling or philosophy aren’t going to take place.
“I don’t know how much can change,” said Boras, although he did volunteer that he has some “different thoughts” when it comes to running the offense. “But at the end of the day, we’re pretty far down the road right now,” he continued. “There’s not gonna be a whole lot that’s gonna change. You hope to become more efficient. We’ve gotta try to put guys in the best position we can to make plays.
“But it can’t be a huge change — guys can’t handle that right now. We’re too far entrenched with our system to think there’s gonna be wholesale changes.”
Besides, the issues are still the issues. Third-down conversions. Completing passes. Catching passes. Opening holes in the running game. And, oh yeah, scoring points.
With all that in mind, Boras and the offensive staff started on some third-down work Tuesday night, and continued in that vein Wednesday night. The plan remains to get the ball to the team’s best playmakers — Todd Gurley and Tavon Austin — as much as possible.
Adding another layer of adjustment to Boras’ ascension is the fact that the Rams are switching quarterbacks, or re-switching QBs. Back from his concussion, Case Keenum will make his second start of the season against the Lions. Cignetti was fairly hands-off when it came to the quarterbacks, and that should be even more of the case with Boras.
“I’m not gonna pretend to go in there and be a quarterback coach,” Boras said. “Of course, I sat in the quarterback room (Wednesday) and was involved with it, but I’m not gonna sit there and correct his footwork and things like that. I mean, we have a quarterback coach (Chris Weinke) doing that.”
znModeratorsome follow-up
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CoachO
For all the flack Boudreau gets from some fans, there isn’t a coach on this team who is more detail oriented. He is constantly coaching these guys on technique. Be it hand placement, footwork or just correcting “who” they are supposed to block on any given play. So yes, they coach these guys on technique and fundamentals constantly.
From what I’ve been told, the issue is work ethic. Greg Robinson has never had to learn how to be better because he has always been so physically better than those he lined up against, that the “mental side” of his game was unnecessary. He played in a system at Auburn that had four running plays and one protection in pass pro.
Getting him in the film room and actually retaining the things they ask of him have been the biggest challenges.
I was told just the other day that there were at least three separate instances in the Cardinals game where he failed to recognize a blitz that came from the outside. After it was specifically made a point of emphasis during the week in both the film room and on the practice field. All three plays resulted in Foles running for his life and throwing the ball away.
The technique issues he has are more from not knowing what he is supposed to do on any given play which causes him to either hesitate at the snap or in the case of not recognizing the blitz, taking a false step inside and not being able to recover in time to handle his assignment.
It is more mental than physical. He just isn’t comfortable enough in his assignment which causes him to either hesitate or flat out do the wrong thing. I think it’s him not being mature enough to dedicate himself to do what it takes to “prepare as a professional.” I understand that the veterans of the unit (Barnes, Reynolds and Saffold) have tried to take him aside and show him how to watch film. How to prepare. And he just wasn’t all that interested in putting in the time.
A few weeks ago, I read something where he (Robinson) acknowledged that it has been an adjustment for him. He admitted that he’s always been able to get by on his physical skills and the struggles he was having were more from “off field” issues. I took this to mean “in the classroom”.
They have zero “other options”. He is a #2 draft pick. They are invested in him. But more than anything, with all the injuries, their hands are tied. Unfortunately moving him to guard won’t change the things he’s having issues with. And quite honestly might make it worse. His teammates are as frustrated as the fans are.
At some point the responsibility has to fall on the player. If that light bulb doesn’t come on soon, he won’t be in the league very long. On the other hand, assuming it clicks for him, he can and should be a very good LT for a decade.
Now with all that being said, I feel the need to say that we as fans tend to focus on individuals and how we think they are performing. Of all the units on any football team, the OLINE is all about cohesion. It’s not as much about the individuals as it is the sum of the parts. And with all the injuries there just isn’t going to be much cohesion and consistency. Robinson has lined up next to FIVE different guys who have taken their turn at LG in 12 weeks. That is bound to be an issue for a guy who is still trying to figure it out.
In terms of the offense, what I expect is that we see Boras change how they utilize some of the things that have been been “forgotten” in this system. And hopefully find a few more than the four plays on the play sheet that Cignetti ran. Specifically an intermediate passing game.
Run the ball all you want. But at some point you have to push the ball downfield. And I’m not talking about throwing it 40 yards downfield just to take a failed shot. Incorporate an attack that focuses on that 12-18 yard range. Something is seriously lacking so far.
znModeratorHere’s something some people might not know.
BOTH Detroit and the Rams fired their offensive coordinator during this season.
So this is the…new coordinator, bowl.
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Lions fire OC Lombardi in offensive shake-up
ALLEN PARK, Mich. — The Detroit Lions fired offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi and offensive line coaches Jeremiah Washburn and Terry Heffernan hours before the team was scheduled to leave for London.
“It’s not a good day,” Lions coach Jim Caldwell said. “It’s a tough day.”
The Lions promoted 31-year-old quarterbacks coach Jim Bob Cooter to offensive coordinator. Cooter will call plays, and he anticipates there will be some scheme changes.
Caldwell said he did not consider calling plays himself. He also made running backs coach Curtis Modkins the running game coordinator, Ron Prince the offensive line coach and Devin Fitzsimmons the tight ends coach.
This came hours after Caldwell said there would be no changes and that he was in the process of evaluating everything about his 1-6 football team.
Teams often wait until their bye week — that is next week for Detroit — to make changes, but Caldwell said he made the change because the Lions were just “not productive.”
December 10, 2015 at 2:17 am in reply to: reporters (including Detroit writers) set up the LIONS game #35437znModeratorEarly preview: Rams vs. Lions
Joe Lyons
COMING THIS WEEK
The Rams (4-8) will try to snap a five-game losing streak when they host fellow underachiever Detroit (4-8) in a noon game Sunday at the Edward Jones Dome. The Lions, who finished 11-5 and reached the playoffs a year ago, started this season 0-5 and 1-7. After three straight wins, they fell 27-23 to visiting Green Bay on Thursday on a 61-yard pass from Aaron Rodgers to Richard Rodgers on an untimed play to end the game.
PLAYER TO WATCH
Defensive end Ezekiel Ansah. Born and raised in Ghana, ‘Ziggy’ was cut twice by the Brigham Young basketball team and was with the Cougars’ track team before being persuaded to give football a try. Five years later, he’s one of the most disruptive young players in the NFL. At 6 feet 5 and 278 pounds, he possesses a mix of power and speed that few in the league can match. Selected fifth overall by the Lions in the 2013 draft, the 26-year-old Ansah has 12½ sacks this season — only Houston’s J.J. Watt (13½) has more — and he’s tied for the league lead with four forced fumbles.
HE SAID IT
“Hindsight’s 20-20,’’ Lions head coach Jim Caldwell said after the Packers rallied from a 20-0 third-quarter deficit to win in Detroit on Thursday.
Questioned about the defensive strategy on the game’s last play, Caldwell explained that he was expecting a lateral play instead of the desperation pass. On the play, the Lions rushed three, had Ansah, their best pass rusher, positioned near the 40-yard line and failed to employ 6-foot-5 receiver Calvin Johnson as a defensive back, something he’s done in the past.
“We had plenty of guys back there,’’ the coach said. “We just didn’t make the play. They did.’’
INJURIES
The Rams came out of Sunday’s 27-3 loss to the Cardinals with cornerback Janoris Jenkins and tight end Lance Kendricks in the league’s concussion protocol. In addition, safety T.J. McDonald hurt his shoulder and kicker Zach Hocker injured his quad in pregame. And then there’s defensive end Robert Quinn (back), cornerback Trumaine Johnson (thigh) and kicker Greg Zuerlein (right hip), who were unable to play on Sunday.
The Lions appeared to come out of Thursday’s gut-wrenching loss to the Packers without any significant injuries. They did play that night without starting center Travis Swanson and veteran receiver Lance Moore because of ankle injuries.
SERIES HISTORY
The Rams hold a 42-40-1 edge in a series that began in Cleveland in 1937. Since the move to St. Louis in 1995, the teams have met seven times, but just once — a 41-33 Rams win in 2006 — in St. Louis. The Lions are 4-3 against the Rams since 1995 and have won the last two, 44-6 in 2010 and 27-24 in 2012. In the 2012 season opener, the Lions’ Matthew Stafford shook off three first-half interceptions to throw the game-winning TD pass with 15 seconds to play.
znModeratorJust because millions of people defend the religion doesn’t mean anything to me.
It’s not that millions defend it.
It’s that it cannot possibly be the same thing to all people in the world. Going to a “source book” doesn’t answer that…there are as many ways to read that text as there are versions of islam. That’s true of any/every religious text—I have never in my life seen anyone “model themselves after Christ” and act humble and forgiving, for example.
And also, millions probably understand it better than we do, also. Which is another part of the point.
Us reading some things out of context and trying to draw conclusions from that, conclusions leading to generalizations about millions, is probably not going to be all the illuminating, especially at a time when the USA is just nutzoid with islamaphobia.
Anyway the topic you raise (violence) is a complicated one. Various versions of islam throughout the centuries have debated it and come to completely different conclusions.
This is a start:
znModeratorPerhaps that shouldn’t be a surprise for a team that hasn’t had good quarterback play since Marc Bulger was healthy, features an offensive line that seems to need an overhaul every offseason, and has lacked a No. 1 wideout who can consistently create separation since Torry Holt was in his prime..
Amazing.
The common threads were staring him in the face and he completely missed them.
Just flat flew right by him.
znModeratorWe need protocols. Does your head hurt? Does your head hurt? ………………………………Does your head hurt? Have you been medically cleared to post? Do you remember your last post? DOES YOUR HEAD HURT? How many fingers do your see? Do you hear voices?
Yes. No. Maybe. Um….Friday. And, potatoes.
znModeratorHe also flat out said he regrets
jettisoning Kurt Warner, but he also
made it clear it was a decision made
by the “organization.”I had a somewhat different reaction.
He said some things–a few things in fact–that we KNOW are not true. Simply know are not true.
For example, he described how he set up the Proehl catch in the Tampa game. Well we have heard Kurt and others discuss that game. The PLAYERS changed the play in the huddle. They altered the hot read on the blitz. Proehl was supposed to do one thing and instead they changed his route so he did another. Yet you listen to Martz and it is as if that never happened.
That was not the only thing he said that was like that. And in fact in terms of being afraid, I thought that’s exactly what Martz was at crucial points in his career. He did not break out of the shell against Tampa, the players changed the hot read. He was the one who drew back in instead of being aggressive against Carolina when they could have won, and instead he settled for a tie and overtime. Etc.
Every time there’s a choice to tell a story so it’s self-serving, Martz goes to self-serving mode. I wonder if he even knows the difference anymore.
Now there are a lot of things in that interview that have nothing to do either way with being self-serving or not, and those are great listens. But I know too much of the history…he changed some stories there, and let’s put it this way–he never changes a story so it takes the glory away from himself.
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December 9, 2015 at 10:10 pm in reply to: reporters (including Detroit writers) set up the LIONS game #35426znModeratorPractice Report 12/9: First Session with Boras
Myles Simmons
With the offense in need of significant improvement, head coach Jeff Fisher turned to assistant head coach/offense Rob Boras to assume the duties of offensive coordinator this week. And on Wednesday, while a bit sleep deprived, Boras said he’s excited to get going.
“This week seems about a month. It’s been two days,” Boras said. “We’re all excited. I think the guys, the staff, everybody’s committed. We’re all moving forward. It’s been good.”
“He did a nice job today. We had a good practice,” Fisher said. “Players are excited. We’re moving forward.”
As you might expect, there will be a bit of an adjustment period with the offense now functioning under Boras. One of those shifts will be with the play calling, as it’s been a while since Boras has performed the duty.
“That’s part of the process,” Boras said. “It’s not going to be perfect. Football isn’t perfect. I’m not going to be perfect. Plays aren’t perfect. That’s why you trust your players to move forward and that’s what we’re going to do.”
Even with Boras’ lack of experience in the area, Fisher said putting together the gameplan is a more significant task.
“That’s the challenge in my opinion,” Fisher said. “Getting the plays called and getting them in, no, he’s not going to have any difficulty with that. No concerns about that.”
As for the differences in the offense, Boras admitted it’s going to be more about tweaks for the last quarter of the season than major changes.
“We have different thoughts, but at the end of the day, we’re pretty far down the road right now,” Boras said. “There’s not going to be a whole lot that’s going to change.”
“Finding out when we did, it’s hard to change a whole lot,” Boras added. “You hope to become more efficient. We’ve got to try to put guys in the best position they can to make plays, but it can’t be a huge change. Guys can’t handle that right now. We’re too far entrenched with our system to think there’s going to be wholesale changes.”
That being said, wide receiver Tavon Austin did not seem too concerned about the offense making adjustments to become more productive.
“You’ve just got to stay focused, do your job, and stay the course,” Austin said. “If you do that, you don’t have anything to worry about.”
One of the goals with Boras at the helm will be to feature Austin and running back Todd Gurley in creative ways. With Gurley receiving only 18 carries over the last two games combined, the Rams would like to keep the running back involved whether it’s in the run game or pass game.
“Todd’s a special player. We have a number of special players on offense,” Boras said. “Between Todd and ‘Tav’ [Austin], we’ve got special guys. For that to happen, obviously, it’s got to be the type of game where we can keep handing him the ball. He’s too good a player.”
Boras will also be working in a different quarterback into the game plan. Though Keenum started a few weeks ago against Baltimore, Foles played the last two games with the Houston product going through the concussion protocol. But coming form the perspective of a former tight ends coach, Boras said he’s not going to take over the quarterbacks room from QBs coach Chris Weinke.
“I’m not going to go in there and now start running those meetings,” Boras said. “I’m trusting all the assistants just like I hope they would do me, just go in there and do their job. Of course, I sat in the quarterback room today and was involved with it. But, I’m not going to sit there and correct his footwork and things like that. We have a quarterback coach doing that.”
And for his part, Keenum said he’s been pleased with the way things have gone with Boras so far.
“Coach Rob, he’s done a great job today — the last couple of days — and I’m really excited about the game plan and really excited about moving forward,” Keenum said.
One of the most significant problems the offense has faced this season is its third down conversion rate. The Rams are No. 32 in the category, attaining first downs on just 24.5 percent of their opportunities.
“We started on it last night. We’re going to work on third down tonight as a staff and introduce it tomorrow. I’d be lying to say I had all the answers right now,” Boras said. “We understand the inefficiencies we’ve had on third down and, obviously, we need to improve on that.
“The way that happens, if that happens I should say, obviously, Todd has the ability and everybody on offense and they all know that, if we convert third downs, everybody has more opportunities to get touches,” Boras added. “So, that’s going to be a big focus going forward tonight and tomorrow when we put it in.”
With everything that has happened with the team in the last few weeks, Boras said he’s doing his best to keep the unit focused on the immediate challenges instead of what may come later.
“All we’re ever guaranteed is today,” Boras said. “That’s kind of the process that we’re doing going forward. Let’s win today and then tomorrow we’re going to come back and challenge them again to try and win today. That’s all we can do is go one day at a time.”
znModeratorOn Board Wars.
Kidding, we don’t have board wars.
But on this issue.
It’s an emotional time. This is about as weird as following Rams football can get.
Sometimes, that means seeing things differently and working through that.
As it happens, I have been keeping track of the OL injury issue closely for years. It’s one of my little things. But on this issue I can pile up all the data I want and someone can still just go…
“I don’t care. I don’t like how they did things.”
And there’s no disputing that.
And then we can get back to arguing over who is the biggest Raiders fan.
December 9, 2015 at 8:47 pm in reply to: Fisher, Boras, Keenum … 12/9 … transcripts, + Boras vid #35420znModeratorVid link
Rob Boras Press Conference – 12/9
Assistant head coach/offense Rob Boras talks about his transition to calling plays and getting the offense ready for Sunday’s contest.
December 9, 2015 at 8:35 pm in reply to: Tweets 12/9 – IR list fills up (Quinn and McDonald out for the year) #35418znModeratorQuinn, T.J. McDonald headed toward season-ending surgeries
Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — The St. Louis Rams’ lengthy injured reserve list is adding two more prominent names.
Rams coach Jeff Fisher announced Wednesday that defensive end Robert Quinn (back) and safety T.J. McDonald (shoulder) will need season-ending surgeries and will be placed on injured reserve soon. Quinn and McDonald will be the Rams’ seventh and eighth players to go on some form of injured reserve this year, joining key players like cornerback E.J. Gaines, linebacker Alec Ogletree (designated to return) and guards Jamon Brown and Rodger Saffold.
“In all likelihood either today or tomorrow we will be placing Rob Quinn on IR for the remainder of the season with a back (injury),” Fisher said. “He’s going to require season-ending surgery. That will also be the case for T.J., who requires season-ending shoulder surgery. So, unfortunately, we lost two really good defensive players.”
For Quinn, this has been a move more than a month in the making. Quinn did not attend the team’s practices over the week 6 bye and has only appeared in one game for 14 snaps since. He was originally listed as having a knee injury, then it was a hip and back injury and now it’s listed as a back, but the back has apparently been the main issue the whole time.
Quinn said recently that he hoped to be back to 100 percent and he was waiting to at least feel good enough to play again, but with the Rams floundering at 4-8, there was now little reason to hold out hope and delay the inevitable much longer.
“We’re moving forward with this, we’re being aggressive with this, so that he can come back at 100 percent,” Fisher said. “Our concern is his future and we need to go ahead and move forward with it so he can come back. It’s a 10- to 12-week rehab and he’ll be back at 100 percent.”
McDonald has actually been dealing with multiple injury issues for awhile but had been playing through those until he subluxed the shoulder again recently.
“He’s been dealing with a few things,” Fisher said. “The shoulder subluxed and we’ve got some things we have to get fixed. He’ll come back, he’ll come back 100 percent, but it’s not fair to ask him to play under the circumstances.”
Without Quinn, the Rams will likely give second-year end Ethan Westbrooks more opportunities as he joins Matt Longacre in the rotation behind starter Eugene Sims. Second-year safety Maurice Alexander will get more chance to plays as well with McDonald out.
The Rams also will have two roster spots opening up after losing Quinn and McDonald. Fisher didn’t indicate an immediate move, but the Rams are banged up in the secondary with cornerback Janoris Jenkins battling a concussion and Trumaine Johnson working his way back from a thigh injury.
Here’s the Rams’ full Wednesday injury report:
Did not practice — DE Robert Quinn (back), S T.J. McDonald (shoulder), CB Janoris Jenkins (concussion), DE William Hayes (thigh), OL Andrew Donnal (knee), K Zach Hocker (right thigh), P Johnny Hekker (rest-not injury related).
Limited participation — TE Lance Kendricks (concussion), CB Trumaine Johnson (thigh), WR Wes Welker (calf).
Full participation — QB Case Keenum (concussion), K Greg Zuerlein (right hip)
znModeratorDecember 9, 2015 at 8:19 pm in reply to: Wagoner etc. …reporters on Boras/Cignetti & the change #35414znModeratorRams hoping Rob Boras can jump-start sagging run game
Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-ra…ping-rob-boras-can-jumpstart-sagging-run-game
EARTH CITY, Mo. — Earlier this year, new St. Louis Rams offensive coordinator Rob Boras almost had that title before Rams coach Jeff Fisher scanned his options and ultimately went with quarterbacks coach Frank Cignetti instead.
That decision was made largely because Cignetti had years of recent play-calling experience in college while Boras, then the tight ends coach, hadn’t called plays at any level since 2003 as the offensive coordinator at UNLV. So Boras had to settle for a promotion to the title of assistant head coach/offense, which didn’t quite fulfill his dreams of being an NFL coordinator but wasn’t a bad consolation.
As it turned out, Boras didn’t have to wait long to ascend to the top of the medal stand. Fisher fired Cignetti on Monday afternoon, promoting Boras to the job he narrowly missed out on about 10 months ago.
Asked what Boras brings to the table that could help the Rams’ ailing offense, Fisher pointed to a few things but there was one priority that stood above the rest.
“There’s some different thoughts,” Fisher said. “Stimulate the staff. A little more creativity. But, it’s run game. We’re lacking the run-game efficiency right now and it all starts right there. Rob, wherever he’s been, he’s been very successful with respect to the run. So, that’s where it’s going to start.”
As part of Boras’ added responsibilities with his previous promotion, it was said that he would be heavily involved with the run game and that Boras has a history of understanding how that jibes with the play-action passing game. That included a new-found emphasis on outside-zone runs mixed with a variety of other looks. So Boras has already been a part of a run game that hasn’t worked all that well, which begs the question of what makes Fisher think Boras will be able to get Todd Gurley and Co. going?
“What I’m anticipating is it’s play selection, it’s calls, it’s adjustments and things like that,” Fisher said. “It’s commitment to it as far as the play calling is concerned. Expanding on some things that we need to do and then hopefully pushing things down the field as a result of it, because that’s what we haven’t been able to do.”
Since Fisher arrived in 2012, he’s made it clear that the center of his offensive philosophy is a run-oriented attack that can incorporate downfield passing off of those runs. Aside from a brief four-game interlude at the beginning of the 2013 season, that has been the goal but it’s never really been reached. From 2012-14, the Rams ranked 19th in the NFL in rushing yards and 17th in yards per carry.
This season, the Rams are tied for ninth in rushing yards and are sixth in yards per carry. To be sure, that represents an improvement but it also hasn’t come with much consistency. Since week 10, the Rams are 19th in the NFL in rushing yards and 16th in yards per carry. Worse, they haven’t been running it all that much, either, as their 82 rushing attempts in those four games (all losses) are 21st in the NFL.
Against Arizona on Sunday, Gurley had one rush for 34 yards with his eight other attempts going for a total of 7 yards, including zero yards before contact. On five of his nine carries, Gurley was first hit at or behind the line of scrimmage on five of them.
So the onus, at least for now, falls on Boras to prevent Gurley’s talent from going to waste.
“We’re going to move in a different direction under the guidance of Rob,” Fisher said. “That’s going to include our philosophy, which is to run the ball and convert third downs and play-pass and be aggressive and attack and do those kind of things.”
Of course, whether it’s the run game, the pass game or the ideal combination of the two, the Rams simply must score more points in order to compete in their final four games.
That means Boras will need to quickly adjust to again handling play-calling duties, even if that lack of experience was the issue that originally kept him from landing the job.
“Rob’s a hands-on, very enthusiastic [and] detailed guy,” Fisher said. “He gets the big picture. He’s not done a lot of play calling before and that was really the difference and the reason I went with Frank, but we can take care of that. I have no concern about that. He’ll be more than prepared to call this game by the time Sunday comes along. It’s just the relationships that you see, the relationships that he has with the tight ends and the energy that he brings and the expectation that he has.
“He’s a perfectionist and that’s what we need. He’s going to bring and demand accountability to the offensive players with an expectation of them going above and beyond what they’ve already done.”
znModeratorthey took a bunch of retreads and injury risks and tried to fashion an oline out of it. and it blew up in their face.
IR, that’s just a spin. They did the exact same thing Vermeil did in 98–guys like Nutten and McCollum are just low market FAs. What you call retreads. Calling them retreads is spin. Or if you want we can use the term and say Vermeil and Hanifan made a good line out of retreads.
And no one they signed from the outside was an injury risk. (Saffold clearly was of course. But he’s the only 1.)
Wells had no prior history of significant injuries before the Rams. He played every game in 2011 and was a pro bowl selection. He had a routine scope after the season which had no effect on subsequent injuries. His long list of injuries with the Rams, including 2 bizarre infections (one of which landed him in ICU) had no connection to anything that happened to him before.
Long had issues with his arms causing 2 surgeries. The real issue there was, could he be the same player he was before the 2 surgeries. He actually was pretty good in 2013—PFF ranked him the 7th best OT overall in the league. The knee injuries had nothing to do with the arms and no one could, would, or did predict knee injuries, especially the freak occurrence of 2 to the same knee.
That stuff just happens…and bizarrely, it keeps happening. They signed as a UDFA or drafted 8 OL keepers in the last 2 years. All but one, Donnal, had no previous injury history. So far now 7 of those 8 have been injured. That was as predictable as saying that Long’s arm surgeries meant future knee injuries.
In terms of this year, injuries put them in the position to have to re-do the line. That wasn’t predictable, it just happened. At that point they had to choose between 2 poisons. (1) bring in veteran linemen and pay for them out of future cap space, or (2) go young and save the future cap space for their own 2016 free agents.
At least the way they chose promised the best benefits longterm.
Will a young OL struggle? Of course. But what has made it worse is…drumroll…more injuries. Havenstein is PFF’s best-ranked rookie lineman, but he missed time. So did 2 of his replacements—Williams then Donnal, both injured. (That means they lost 3 ROTs this year for various amounts of time.) That meant shifting Reynolds to OT and playing 2 of their least ready guys at guard (Rhaney and Wichman). So losing Hav then Brown meant a triple whammy.
The injuries KEEP happening, and it doesn’t matter if the guy was never injured before in his life (Hav) or if he had 2 arm surgeries and then managed to get completely unrelated knee injuries on top of it (Long).
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znModeratorOk, but he didnt “ignore” the OLine. He signed Jake Long,
Wells, etc. They didnt hold up.i really think this regime let it get to a point where it became a crisis.
I agree with WV. They didn’t ignore the OL before 2014. They just went about building it in a way you seem not to credit or accept as legit, for some reason.
They have a long list of linemen they acquired from 2012-2013 and actually did field good lines in that period when they weren’t wrecked by multiple multiple simultaneous injuries.
A lot of their acquisitions played well for the Rams on good lines, when they had never done anything before the Rams and then never did anything since, either. Some free agents left and became decent starters, so they weren’t all of the “didn’t do anything since” type. So for example Mike Person and Joe Barksdale are still playing. But while they contributed to good line play for the Rams in 2012 and 2013, guys like Richardson, Turner, Williams, and Smith didn’t do much after the Rams and all priced themselves out of the Rams budget which is why they left.
To me, not counting that kind of FA acquisition and only counting draft picks is a kind of blind spot.
For example in 99-2001 the OL included several guys who were precisely like the kinds of guys they brought in from 2012-14. Nutten, Gruttaduaria, McCollum, and Timmerman were all the same type of acquisition–a combo of both high and low market FAs. Same as 2012-13.
Honestly, you CAN build a line with that kind of player. Teams have done it for years. It is one of the ways you can build a line.
I really do believe there’s no real reason to downgrade one type of player over another type of player when it comes to OL building. There are lots of different ways to do that (build lines), and they can all work. Bringing in young vets and high market FAs is not failing to address the line, it’s addressing it> but in a way you seem to discount for some reason. But it DID work. When not injured those lines played well.
No approaches to line building work, though, when injuries get into high numbers and wipe out what you’ve built.
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znModeratorThat is on the Head Coach, and Coaching staff. That is why Fisher needs to go.
I don’t agree.
I thought they had turned the corner already going into 2014, but then injuries to the qb and OL squashed that.
Because of the OL and qb situations they started over in 2015.
What killed that was Foles melting down. Which no one predicted. It is true the OL struggled in 2015 before they then got injured on top of it, but you expect a young OL to struggle. And I figure the OL was young in the first place because they had to choose their poison. It was either (1) sign vet FAs which would mean taking money from the 2016 and 2017 caps, or (2) going young on the OL and saving 2016 and 2017 cap space for signing as many of their own FAs as possible.
They might change the coach, they might not. Either way I don’t see the issues as being the head coach. I see it as a series of injury disasters being compounded by Foles falling far below the minimally decent standard he set in 2014.
znModeratorI do think losing Saffold was a big deal though. I just
think he meant a lot to the OLineCould be. But he wasn’t playing especially well in 2015 for some reason.
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znModeratorIs Taje Allen playing?
November 18, 1999
RAMS: Out: S Keith Lyle (shoulder). Questionable: CB Taje Allen (neck); TE Ernie Conwell (knee). Probable: DE Kevin Carter (knee); RB Amp Lee (knee). 49ERS: Out: LB Joe Wesley (knee); QB Steve Young (concussion). Questionable: S Lance Schulters (ankle). Probable: DT Junior Bryant (foot); TE Tony Cline (back); WR Terrell Owens (ankle); LB Lee Woodall (back).Well, he had that neck thing, but we haven’t heard much since. But then Fisher isn’t good at updating that stuff.
I am surprised you’re so misinformed about this.
znModeratorDoes anyone have a list of the Rams OLinemen
who have been injured AND the weeks that
they went out ?I think it would be interesting to see
WHEN the Line got to “bulgerization” level.
How many games were they healthy?w
vOkay, as a rule, I don’t count one or 2 replacements unless it’s both the center and the left tackle at the same time.
But that’s deceptive, because they started the season with a green GR at LOT, 2 rookies, and a first-time starter center.
The Rams played the same OL through week 4, when they lost Saffold. That’s no big deal because they just brought in Reynolds.
Against the Vikes they had to play Donnal at guard and move Reynolds to ROT. That’s because they lost both Havenstein and Williams at that point. But still, that’s just 2 changes, so it’s not critical in itself. You combine that with being so young and it’s not optimal, but a change at guard and ROT in itself is not critical mass type stuff.
In the Baltimore game, they lost Donnal, who was at ROT, and they were missing Brown, too. That’s when they had to move Reynolds to ROT and start Rhaney and Wichman at guard.
So then at that point, they had lost starters in Saffold, Brown, and Havenstein plus replacements in Williams and Donnal.
The low ebb OL was Robinson Rhaney Barnes Wichman Reynolds, with 3 injured ROTs (Havenstein, Wms, Donnal).
That’s at least better now (in injury terms) with Havenstein back, which also moves Reynolds back to guard.
What’s freaky about all this is this: starting in 2014 they added 8 linemen, including draft picks and a UDFA. Of those, only Donnal had a previous injury history. As of right now, 7 of those 8 have been injured for lengthy stretches.
znModeratorWell, you probably will have a different example for any team I would name but the Packers(I know they have Aaaron Rodgers) have had a beat up line this year.
The Packers haven’t reached Rams levels of injuries. Any team can handle one or 2. That’s why you see me all the time talking about how qbs need a relatively healthy OL. The key, I always say, is multiple simultaneous injuries. A couple of different games there they were missing their center. No big, you can play with that. Last game they were missing a guard and a right tackle. It’s never Rams level in terms of multiple injuries. Against the Bengals, for example, the Rams had replacements at 3 positions, and 2 of the replacements were young inexperienced guards. In fact one reason they had to do that was because they had to move Reynolds to tackle, and they has to move Reynolds to tackle because they lost 3 guys at tackle–Havenstein, Williams, and Donnal.
Plus the Packers didn’t start out with a young inexperienced line.
There are no teams out there, PA, with Rams level multiple OL injuries AND a young inexperienced line to start with.
I have been paying close attention to this issue since 2007, when the Rams had 10 linemen injured, including 4 out for the season and 6 more missing multiple consecutive games, yet some fans were blaming Bulger for the offense sputtering. And when any team gets past the breaking point on OL injuries, it has an effect on the offense. We’ve known that for years from the Rams alone. I’ve been beating this drum since 2007.
When Green Bay gets to the point where they have Rams level injuries, it will be an issue I promise. And given that, they started out with a veteran line, not the very young and inexperienced line the Rams had.
Either way, this year the Packers offense is ranked 22nd so far, while last year they were ranked 6th. The problems in Green Bay, though, they say, come in the running game and from losing receivers.
znModeratorSuspension ends for Rams’ Stedman Bailey; unclear when he’ll play
Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14315891/suspension-st-louis-rams-wr-stedman-bailey-ends
EARTH CITY, Mo. – St. Louis Rams wide receiver Stedman Bailey’s four-game suspension came to an end Monday, but it remains unclear when or if he will play football again after he was shot in the head twice Nov. 24.
Rams coach Jeff Fisher said Bailey continues to make progress in his recovery from the six-plus hour surgery he endured the day after he was shot.
On Monday, Bailey was eligible to come off the reserve/suspended list following his four-game ban for violating the NFL’s policy on substance abuse. According to Fisher, Bailey did come off that list, and the Rams are working with the league to place him on the non-football injury list.
“We’ll take care of Sted,” Fisher said. “He comes off, he’s eligible to play, but by no means is he in any kind of condition to play.”
Fisher previously said Bailey would not be able to play for the Rams again this season. Fisher mentioned Monday that it was possible Bailey might not play ever again, though it’s too early for such determinations.
“Are you asking is there a potential that he doesn’t return to play? Yes, there is that potential,” Fisher said. “We don’t know. It’s just going to take some time. From a health standpoint, there’s a chance that he doesn’t play. However, based on what he’s done over the last 10 days, he may surprise everybody.”
Bailey has made steady progress in his recovery from the shooting. Before the team’s Nov. 29 game against Cincinnati, Bailey’s girlfriend sent to his Rams teammates photos of Bailey signing his name. Last week, Fisher told the team’s website he had seen videos of Bailey walking at the Miami-area hospital where he is staying. Bailey himself took to social media on Friday to offer an update as well as thanks to his friends, family and fans for their support.
“He’s doing better,” Fisher said. “It puts a smile on my face when I get to think about him and where he’s at [in his recovery].”
The Miami Gardens Police Department is handling the ongoing investigation into the shooting. According to police, Bailey was shot while sitting in a car at round 8:45 p.m. ET Nov. 24. Police said Bailey’s cousin, Antwan Reeves, and three others were in the car when another vehicle drove by and fired shots. Reeves also was shot and was taken in for surgery that night. His status is unknown. The three others, two of whom were minors, were unharmed, according to police.
December 9, 2015 at 2:04 am in reply to: Wagoner etc. …reporters on Boras/Cignetti & the change #35359znModeratorGordo: Cignetti is fall guy for Rams’ failures
Jeff Gordon
Rams coach Jeff Fisher built exactly this team to his personal specifications.
He loaded up on the defensive side for Year 4 and gave coordinator Gregg Williams even more impressive weaponry. He constructed a ball-control offense centered on rookie running back Todd Gurley.
He ordered field position football, asking punter Johnny Hekker to pin teams deep in their zone and placekicker Greg Zuerlein to score from midfield. He wanted to slug out victories like that 24-22 triumph at Arizona.
The Rams climbed to 4-3 and took aim at the playoffs. At last this was Fisher Football!
But hope proved fleeting. The Rams misfired again and again and again in the heart of their schedule, losing five consecutive games to plunge from the playoff race and clinch still another non-winning season for long-suffering St. Louis fans.
Sunday’s 27-3 loss to the Cardinals prompted Fisher to bench erratic quarterback Nick Foles for the second time and serve up offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti as the unwitting scapegoat.
“Not all the blame is to fall on his shoulders, but that is the way this business works,” Fisher said Monday after cashiering Cignetti. “Players contributed, coaches contributed, everybody contributed, but we have to move in a different direction.
“The lack of production is obvious. We’ve been talking about it for weeks. … You know, 18 touchdowns in 12 weeks just doesn’t give you a chance to win a lot of games. In seven of our 12 games, we’ve scored 13 points or less.”
In this bomb’s away era of the NFL, the Rams are somehow mustering just 178 passing yards and 15.8 points a game. Their third-down conversion rate fell to 24.5 percent after Sunday’s one-for-12 fiasco.
Now it falls to assistant head coach/offense Rob Boras make this “attack” less terrible. Wish the new coordinator luck because he doesn’t have much room to work, given Fisher’s conservative leanings.
“That’s going to include our philosophy, which is to run the ball and convert third downs and play-pass and be aggressive and attack and do those kind of things,” Fisher said.
Then there is the offensive talent, or lack thereof.
“We’ve got good players,” Fisher insisted. “We’ve got to use them. We’ve got players that are hurt. We’ve got to get them back. We need direction moving forward offensively.”
Gurley is a budding star, but otherwise Fisher and general manager Les Snead have assembled lots of mediocrity on the offensive side.
They spent an eighth overall pick on receiver Tavon Austin, a nice change-of-pace player who hasn’t produced to his draft slot.
They spent a second overall pick on left tackle Greg Robinson, who has struggled just to survive as an NFL pass blocker during his second season.
They reached for receiver Brian Quick in the second round and got an eternal project who still can’t make plays four years into his career.
They thought they had a gem in third-round pick Stedman Bailey, but two suspensions derailed his career. Then, sadly,gunshot wounds suffered back home in Miami left his football future uncertain.
They spent giant dollars on tight end Jared Cook, who flashes offensive brilliance between his dropped passes and missed blocks.
They traded quarterback Sam Bradford for Foles, who did OK until his implosion at Green Bay. All attempts to reassemble him since have proved futile.
They tried to build offensive line strength via free agency and failed, landing one broken down blocker after another. Then they tried to build with kids instead, suffering predictable growing pains this season before injuries further diminished the group.
Former offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer exited after last season, landing at the University of Georgia for a year. Now Cignetti is looking for work while Boras tries to spice things up.
The Rams’ offensive playbook reads more like a play pamphlet, seemingly centered on three plays:
A hand-off to Gurley with Austin flying past in a fake jet sweep.
A hand-off or pitch to Austin with Gurley faking a run into the line.
A fake hand-off to Gurley and/or Austin to freeze the safeties, then a long heave to either wide receiver Kenny Britt or Cook.Recently Cignetti mixed in a wildcat play, with Gurley taking a direct snap and either running the ball himself or giving it to Austin. That removed the quarterback from the equation — which was not a bad idea, all things considered.
Foles ranks 31st among NFL quarterbacks in with a 69.0 passer rating. (Write your own numerical joke here.)
Keenum struggled before suffering his concussion, but Fisher had to reinstate him as starter with Foles hanging deep passes short and rifling out passes 10 feet too high.
Fisher wants Boras to produce better quarterback play, a more efficient running game and less offensive sloppiness — like those annoying false starts by wide receivers or tight ends.
He hopes the coaching change will jar and refocus the players.
“I hope they all took it personally because they need to,” Fisher said. “You’ve got a good man and a good football coach that’s busting his butt every single day. Now, for whatever reasons, he’s no longer here. They have to take some responsibility for that.”
So does the man at the top. Rams owner Stan Kroenke gave Fisher the freedom to do his own thing and here we are, 4-8 this season and 24-35-1 overall.
December 9, 2015 at 2:03 am in reply to: Wagoner etc. …reporters on Boras/Cignetti & the change #35358znModeratorFiring offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti solves nothing for Rams
Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — Apparently the deck chair wearing the offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti costume just didn’t match the decor on the U.S.S. St. Louis Rams as it sinks into further despair.
Less than a day after Rams coach Jeff Fisher said that he was “almost out of answers” to try to fix the team’s offensive woes, he submitted something that some might consider a response by firing Cignetti and promoting Rob Boras to offensive coordinator. But that doesn’t mean it’s the right one.
Did Cignetti do a good job with the Rams offense? A simple look at the numbers would offer a resounding no.
Three quarters of the way through the season, the Rams are 31st in the NFL in yards per game (296.3) and offensive points per game (14.4) and last in passing yards per game (178) and first downs (175). Undoubtedly, those are numbers that scream for a change.
That also doesn’t mean it was all Cignetti’s fault, either.
No, once again, the blame here is going to the wrong place. It was Fisher who hired Brian Schottenheimer as the coordinator when he arrived in 2012. After three seasons of poor offensive output, Fisher had a chance to re-invent the offense last offseason with a creative hire from outside the ranks. He decided to hire from within, going with Cignetti, though it sure seemed like any proven outside commodity looked at the situation in St. Louis and thought better of pursuing the job.
It was also Fisher who mostly neglected the offense and the quarterback position until this offseason. There was that moment he attempted to stray outside of his comfort zone in 2013 with a spread offense intended to throw it all over the yard, but that was no more than a passing fancy that last just four games before it was scrapped. And it was Fisher who picked the players, including the quarterbacks, offensive linemen and wide receivers, who represent the NFL’s 31st-ranked offense.
So what, exactly, does firing Cignetti now, with four games to go, accomplish? Theoretically, it gives Fisher a chance to evaluate Boras as his offensive coordinator if indeed Fisher is back for the 2016 season, which is still a possibility. What it doesn’t do is offer any sort of a cure for an ailing offense.
But remember, whether the coordinator is Boras or Bill Walsh in his prime, the job is to execute the run-first philosophy that Fisher desires. To this point, that hasn’t gotten the Rams anywhere.
In Fisher’s first three seasons in St. Louis, the Rams have finished 23rd, 30th and 28th in the NFL in yards per game. They’ve ranked 28th, 22nd and 23rd in offensive points scored per game, though never with an average higher than 19.
Boras takes over an offense that has Nick Foles and Case Keenum as quarterback options and an offensive line that already struggled mightily before a rash of injuries has left it to bottom out. It’s an offense that has Kenny Britt, he of the 445 receiving yards, leading the team in that category. By way of comparison, last week’s opponent, the Arizona Cardinals, have three wideouts with at least 550 receiving yards.
So Boras, like Cignetti before him, isn’t exactly going to be playing with a stacked deck. In fact, one could argue that it’s stacked against him. Firing Cignetti now, 12 games into his first season as coordinator, only generates more questions.
If the offense doesn’t improve over the final four weeks, will it then somehow be Boras’ fault? Will the search for a fourth offensive coordinator in about a year then begin anew? Will Fisher again get to make the call?
And perhaps most important: At some point, don’t you think we’ll run out of sacrificial Rams?
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