Stafford not playing at Super Bowl level (Article 12/27/21)

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  • #135008
    joemad
    Participant

    https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/the-rams-arent-getting-the-matthew-stafford-they-need-to-win-the-super-bowl-224623024.html

    Stafford not playing at Super Bowl level

    The Rams aren’t getting the Matthew Stafford they need to win the Super Bowl

    To this point, the NFL has shown it isn’t like the NBA, where a super team can join forces and produce championships. Much of that, of course, is simple numbers: There are only five players per team at a time on a basketball court and they play offense and defense.

    This year’s Los Angeles Rams are trying to show it can be done in the NFL, adding Matthew Stafford, Von Miller and Odell Beckham Jr. to a roster that already included Aaron Donald, Jalen Ramsey and MVP candidate Cooper Kupp. The Rams are all in, having used nearly all of their 2022 draft picks in trades to assemble their roster; Los Angeles hasn’t made a pick in the first round since 2016 and, at the moment, won’t until 2024.

    When the Rams traded for Stafford earlier this year, the general reaction was an overreaction. Stafford’s career mediocrity was attributed solely to his being a Detroit Lion for 11 years. Being paired with Sean McVay was supposed to be the magic elixir that showed everyone Stafford was a hidden All-Pro all this time, despite being a Pro Bowler just once with Detroit and sharing the field with Hall of Fame receiver Calvin Johnson for his first seven seasons in the league.

    Three games in, with the Rams undefeated and coming off a win against the Buccaneers, Stafford was being discussed as an MVP candidate.

    Since then, he’s largely been the quarterback he was in Detroit: statistically stellar against bad teams, meh against winning ones. The Rams’ road win over the Arizona Cardinals earlier this month was the first time in his career that Stafford had posted a win over a team that was five games over .500 at kickoff, and just his 11th against a team with a winning record. He’s 0-3 in the postseason.

    On Sunday, against a Minnesota Vikings team that was 7-7 when the day began, Stafford had to make Rams fans very nervous. He was 21 for 37 (56.8 percent) for 197 yards with one touchdown, a season-high three interceptions and season-low 5.3 yards per attempt.

    He threw picks on back-to-back possessions in the third quarter and was 4-for-9 passing in the red zone, with the Rams scoring only two touchdowns on five trips inside the 20. And that was while Sony Michel rushed for 131 yards, providing the run support we’ve been told ad nauseam Stafford never had with the Lions.

    Los Angeles won โ€” in spite of Stafford, not because of him.

    That’s a risky proposition in the playoffs.

    Yes, yes, Los Angeles is 11-4 and clinched a playoff berth with the win over the Vikings, and it must be noted Stafford lost No. 2 receiver Robert Woods to a season-ending injury. But look at how Stafford has played since completing 70.2 percent of his passes with nine touchdowns, one pick and 10.0 YPA during that 3-0 start, especially since November began. The Rams were winless in three games that month against the Titans, 49ers and Packers, losing by a combined 41 points with Stafford going 78 for 127 (6.6 YPA) with five TDs and five INTs.

    And analytically speaking, specifically expected points added (EPA) per play vs. pass blocking grade, Stafford is giving Los Angeles almost exactly the same production it got from Jared Goff in 2018. That’s the year the Rams reached the Super Bowl. Something tells us McVay and general manager Les Snead were hoping for a little more when they gave up two first-round picks to get Stafford ain exchange for Goff. They were expecting elite.

    Los Angeles travels to Baltimore this week and finishes at home with San Francisco, both of whom are 8-7 and in the playoff field as of Monday. The Cardinals, at 10-5 and still in the running for the NFC West title, close at Dallas and home with Seattle.

    There aren’t many quarterbacks playing who you’re confident can consistently put their team on their back and carry it to a win. Tom Brady, of course; Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes. Not long ago Russell Wilson belonged in that category, too. Does Stafford?

    Great quarterbacks make everyone around them better and lift their games when the stakes are highest. To use McVay’s own words, when a game or a play is “not right, they can make it right.” That’s a big reason the Rams acquired Stafford.

    They need him to become that quarterback quickly, or their big gamble for this season will be a big bust.

    #135010
    zn
    Moderator

    #135011
    zn
    Moderator

    #135015
    zn
    Moderator

    #135017
    Eternal Ramnation
    Participant

    This hit piece on Stafford I just can’t take seriously. Brady was shut out by a struggling Saints team, Rogers lost to the same Vikings team the Stafford led Rams never trailed in their win Sunday. A win that includes 3 ints including 1 stupid throw into very good double coverage 1 deflected at the los (it happens, it happened to Brady when we played him happened to Rodgers when we played him
    Happened to Mahomes many times this year)
    Stafford didn’t melt down instead he hits Kupp on a clutch 3rd down throw for 37 yards and sealed the win with a laser to OBJ.

    #135018
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    This hit piece on Stafford I just canโ€™t take seriously. Brady was shut out by a struggling Saints team, Rogers lost to the same Vikings team the Stafford led Rams never trailed in their win Sunday. A win that includes 3 ints including 1 stupid throw into very good double coverage 1 deflected at the los (it happens, it happened to Brady when we played him happened to Rodgers when we played him
    Happened to Mahomes many times this year)
    Stafford didnโ€™t melt down instead he hits Kupp on a clutch 3rd down throw for 37 yards and sealed the win with a laser to OBJ.

    Stafford has 13 INTs. Same as perennial MVP candidates Mahomes and Lamar Jackson. Thatโ€™s one less than the hero of the hour Joe Burrow, only one more than super star Josh Allen, and only two more than the GOAT, Tom Brady. He’s also 2nd in TD passes, 4th in QBR, and he’s top 3 or better in about a dozen QB categories.

    Yeah, he’s had some bad games. I think he’s hurt. But that article was over the top.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by nittany ram.
    #135022
    wv
    Participant

    Look at the Yards per pass attempt, fwiw.
    QB stats:https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player

    I’m wondering how that 8.1 yards per attempt compares to
    Goff, Bradford, Warner, Bulger…

    Just curious.

    On the INTs, some of Stafford’s interceptions are among the
    WORST i have ever seen from a ram QB. I mean some of them are just WTF-INTs.

    But for the most part, Stafford’s stats are top-5.

    So any fair analysis of him, has to account for the top-5 overall stat part,
    as well as the occasional WTF INT part.

    w
    v

    #135025
    Zooey
    Participant

    Goff was good enough to get the Rams to a Super Bowl.

    Stafford > Goff.

    And I wish Stafford was more consistent. I can accept a QB who makes an occasional bad decision, like the 1st INT to Jefferson. It was a good throw, but a bad choice.

    I don’t know what to do with the throws that miss the receiver by several yards. And like Goff, Stafford makes those WTF throws a couple times a game.

    #135026
    zn
    Moderator

    like Goff, Stafford makes those WTF throws a couple times a game.

    It’s starting to sound like there’s something about a McVay team that leads to things like that.

    Just wondering out loud.

    Anyway, like Goff, it comes in bunches. MS (like Goff) isn’t consistently an issue. But (like Goff) he has collapse games. He has 3 games with 7 INTs, and then 12 with just 6.

    #135027
    wv
    Participant

    Goff was good enough to get the Rams to a Super Bowl.

    Stafford > Goff.

    And I wish Stafford was more consistent. I can accept a QB who makes an occasional bad decision, like the 1st INT to Jefferson. It was a good throw, but a bad choice.

    I donโ€™t know what to do with the throws that miss the receiver by several yards. And like Goff, Stafford makes those WTF throws a couple times a game.

    =================

    That Ram super bowl year was an odd one. Talent all thru that roster. I had forgotten how much talent: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2018_roster.htm

    Gurley/CJ Anderson, R. Woods, C. Kupp, B Cooks, Higbee, Gerald Everett, Whitworth, John Sullivan, Roger Saffold, Havenstein.

    Goff.

    Brockers, Suh, ADonald, Littleton, Marcus Peters, Talib, L Joyner. Ekuban. Mark Barron.

    Started 8-0. Then Saints put 45 on em.

    As great as they looked at mid-season, they did not look great after the 54-51 Chiefs game. Next came Detroit, and the offense never quite looked the same. Bears beat em up. Lost to Philly. Beat the 49ers in the last game.

    Looked great against Dallas in the playoffs. But then the war against the Saints,
    and the three points against Belichick.

    I hope some sorta lessons were learned. I dunno.

    w
    v

    #135028
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    stafford is a top 5 QB for sure.

    but i’m not sure this team is superbowl caliber. at the same time i’m not sure there’s a clear cut favorite. so it’s anybody’s at this point.

    #135032
    Zooey
    Participant

    The Rams do not look Super Bowl caliber to me. They haven’t shown that they can beat good teams. Of course, peaking at the right time is what it’s all about, and they are getting healthy, and the running game has improved. I’d like to see them beat Baltimore and San Francisco convincingly. Then…maybe.

    But if they falter in these last two games, there is no reason to think they will win 4 games in a row against the better teams in the league. They survived the Vikings with 3 INTs. They won’t beat Dallas, GB, TB, SF, or anybody, really, if they blunder like that in the playoffs.

    #135040
    wv
    Participant

    Mark Sanchez
    on stafford, fwiw

    #135046
    joemad
    Participant

    The Rams do not look Super Bowl caliber to me. They havenโ€™t shown that they can beat good teams

    The Rams have shown they can beat quality teams, but Stafford has not. Thus the reason for the article

    The Rams dominated Tenn, but when you throw Jackass pick 6’s …20 seconds apart you generally lose

    When open a game with a pick and follow up with a pick 6 in SF you deflate your team, put you coaches in position to change game plans and you lose.

    When you miss open receivers like he did in the 1st Arizona game you lose, (Michel’s fumble was also huge in that game)

    … he has an inexplicable choke gene. Like Stave Sax sometimes did throwing a routine ground ball into the stands, like the great Clayton Kershaw melting in big games. You can’t explain it.

    I give Stafford credit, he did have a very good 4th qtr in Minnesota after playing stupid for 3 qtrs ….the game was on the verge of turning the Vikings way… the punt return was huge, but the offense made four or five key 3rd down conversions that led to 10 min of ball control. But even then, Stafford sometimes looked awkward even when he simply handed off the ball…but he did deliver in that final qtr of football in the heat of battle of SKOL chants, drums and blowing war Gjallarhorns….

    Sure other QB’s have also thrown 13+ints, but not in clusters that are hitting defenders right in the chest…

    Playing QB is not simply gunslinging the ball.

    I’ll ask again, do you think Stafford could’ve won the NFC Championship in New Orleans without Gurley or Kupp?

    That’s why Goff > Stafford, but sadly that’s not the equation.

    The true equation is GOFF + 2 1st rounders > Stafford

    People forget how accurate, calm and resilient Goff is. 67% completion rate in Detroit this year under a bonehead rookie head coach and mediocre WRs …btw last year he also completed 67% of his passes in LA.

    Goff is Combat proven, Stafford is not.

    #135048
    Zooey
    Participant

    The Rams have shown they can beat quality teams, but Stafford has not. Thus the reason for the article

    The Steve Sax comparison made me laugh. There’s some truth there.

    Goff was the same way, though. And let’s not forget that Goff’s multiple turnover games was exactly what McVay cracked on Goff for when he finally called him out publicly. In fact, Goff and Stafford seem quite a bit alike to me. Uncanny accuracy blended with WTF throws, and ghastly turnovers that come in bunches. Both cool, calm and resilient. I defended Goff as long as he was around, and I always said (as did many other posters, fwiw), that I was still bullish on Goff long term. The way I see it, though, the Rams are built to win right now, not 2 or 3 years from now. Right now. And McVay believed that Goff wasn’t ready to win right now, and I would say that – whatever else Goff did in his career, and you’re right about 2018 – Goff lost his confidence last year, and just couldn’t command the ship.

    Now there is a school of thought that places the blame for that on McVay rather than Goff, and that point of view has some decent evidence to support it. McVay lost his patience and failed to nurture Goff’s growth, and worse than that, piled on Goff with criticism that instilled a fear in Goff. That may be. Whatever the case, Goff played all of 2020 tentatively, and by the end of the year, it either Goff or McVay had to go, and here we are.

    To my eyes, Stafford and Goff are a lot alike, as I said. I think Stafford has a stronger arm (though Goff’s is strong enough), and Stafford plays more boldly, with greater confidence. I think we will see Goff in playoff games down the road, and I think the Lions would be making a mistake to get rid of him, but there are several teams hungry for a QB, and they may find a buyer. Denver might be a good spot for him.

    As for whether Stafford can win in the playoffs, well, we’re going to find out in 3 weeks.

    #135049
    Eternal Ramnation
    Participant

    Tom Brady threw 3 ints in the NFC championship. Goff got us to a Superbowl he also lost us a Superbowl.

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