can Goff get to be an elite qb

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  • #95729
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    An elite quarterback is tough to define, but Rams’ Jared Goff has a chance to join that group

    RICH HAMMOND

    link: https://www.ocregister.com/2018/12/26/an-elite-quarterback-is-tough-to-define-but-rams-jared-goff-has-a-chance-to-join-that-group/

    THOUSAND OAKS — The narrative and the questions about Jared Goff have shifted like weather patterns since 2016. Is he a bust? Is he a legitimate starting quarterback? Is he a star? Could he be a superstar?

    The current barometer reading is somewhere between the latter two, but stay tuned. Goff receives the most scrutiny of any Rams player, and that comes with the position. After a couple wobbly games, Goff improved last week, but the truest test of his season is about to come, and questions will be answered.

    The playoffs are on the horizon, and at the end of a season that has seen him skyrocket to MVP candidacy, then fall under heavy criticism, it’s time for Goff to reveal what class of quarterback he deserves to be in.

    “Winning the championship is always the goal,” Rams coach Sean McVay said before Wednesday’s walk-through practice at Cal Lutheran. “In a lot of instances, that does end up being a good measuring stick, but that’s always a team result and they only have so much control. The great ones, they consistently perform, year in and year out, and that’s really the truest measurement of performance.”

    That’s why getting a read on Goff’s season – and even his three-year NFL career – is tough.

    How to judge a quarterback? Is it a Super Bowl championship? Guys such as Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer have rings. Is it a couple of All-Pro selections? Then add Rich Gannon to the list. Is it a guy who has led the league in passing? Matt Schaub did that nine years ago. It’s an inexact science.

    “I think it’s consistency,” McVay said. “The great ones consistently perform, year in and year out.”

    At first hearing, that might sound like cop-out coach-speak, but it is probably the fairest measure, and particularly for Goff, whose has been in search of level ground since the Rams drafted him in 2016.

    Write off Goff’s rookie season, because the team was awful and the coaching quite suspect. In 2017, Goff led the Rams to a division title and made the Pro Bowl, but fizzled in a playoff loss – as did most of his teammates – as he completed only 24 of 45 attempts for 259 yards against the Atlanta Falcons.

    This season, Goff had an amazing early-season run, with four consecutive games of at least 320 yards. By the end of November, Goff had 26 touchdowns and six interceptions and was considered a potential MVP. In his next three games, though, Goff threw one touchdown pass and six interceptions.

    Goff enjoyed what, for the most part, could be considered a bounce-back game last week at Arizona, when he completed 19 of 24 attempts for 216 yards. Goff was efficient but still had a low yardage total, still looked a bit tentative in the pocket and again committed a turnover, on an early strip-sack fumble.

    “It didn’t feel different than 90 percent of the season,” Goff said Wednesday. “It felt different, maybe, than a couple weeks prior, but it felt like who we are and what we normally do.”

    So, yes, consistency. From Goff’s perspective, the timing of his struggles might be helpful. The downturn provided him just enough time to rebound and peak when it’s most important, in the playoffs.

    A big regular-season finale would help Goff toward that and perhaps make history. Goff heads into Sunday’s game against San Francisco with 4,489 passing yards this season. He needs 341 to break Kurt Warner’s single-season franchise record of 4,830, set in 2001.

    “It would be cool,” Goff said. “It’s more important to get the win. I could throw for 600 and lose and I wouldn’t be too happy about it.”

    Goff already has moved into second place and topped Warner’s 1999 total of 4,353 yards. Warner led the Rams to the Super Bowl in both of those seasons and is a Hall of Famer. That’s greatness, and now Goff has a chance to prove that he deserves to be considered among the upper echelon of active quarterbacks.

    “I loved the way that he has responded, even from those couple (difficult) games,” McVay said. “His mindset was, I’m using these as learning opportunities, not something that’s going to set me back.”

    #95730
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    i think mcvay’s got it spot on. consistency.

    he’s gotta do it year in year out. for the next ten years at least.

    a superbowl would help for sure. but consistently producing is the only sure way.

    #95736
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    i think mcvay’s got it spot on. consistency.

    he’s gotta do it year in year out. for the next ten years at least.

    a superbowl would help for sure. but consistently producing is the only sure way.

    This can be an interesting discussion. I reserve the term “elite” for a little more than what McVay says. Yes, consistency, but to me that’s the prime ingredient of a franchise qb (guys like Roethlisberger, Rivers, Ryan, Wilson, and Luck). To be elite it has to be something more than that. And it’s not easy to describe. I would say that to be considered elite, a qb has to demonstrate a few times a season that the team can win on the basis of his arm above all else. That’s getting into the territory of guys like Brees and Brady in his prime. And that that also regularly shows up as a primary factor in beating top defenses.

    Wilson is pushing to get there. Will Goff get there? I don’t rule it out though you can also go places with a guy who is the next step down from that, too.

    BTW I don’t think I remember there being this many good young qbs in the league before.

    #95806
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    To be elite it has to be something more than that. And it’s not easy to describe. I would say that to be considered elite, a qb has to demonstrate a few times a season that the team can win on the basis of his arm above all else. That’s getting into the territory of guys like Brees and Brady in his prime.

    i think that’s hard to measure.

    i am more in line with mcvay’s definition.

    consistency in production over a long period of time.

    and i’m talking about elite level production.

    so i would say a guy like rivers belongs in that conversation.

    consistent top 5 production over a number of years.

    now i don’t think goff will ever be on the level of an aaron rodgers. a guy who can excel no matter who is around him.

    but i think he can be a brees level of qb. he’s not even close to that yet, but i think the potential is there.

    #95808
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    consistency in production over a long period of time.

    and i’m talking about elite level production.

    There;s the rub though. Don’t Rivers and Roethlisberger fit that definition? But I think it’s stretching the meaning of “elite” to call them elite.

    In contrast, I think it;s easy to demonstrate, but not easy to quantify (not the same thing) that the Patz and Saints have regularly won games that depended (offensively) entirely on Brady and Brees.

    #95809
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    How about will Goff be that QB to win a couple of Super Bowls?

    #95810
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    There;s the rub though. Don’t Rivers and Roethlisberger fit that definition? But I think it’s stretching the meaning of “elite” to call them elite.

    well i would consider those two qbs to be elite.

    what you’re talking about i’m not even sure brees and brady qualify as. i only see rodgers qualify as that kind of qb. a qb who can win games by himself.

    and i think mahomes might be the next guy to be able to do that. but i need to see more from him.

    those guys are rare. and it’s even harder to demonstrate. so it’ll always be open to debate. but i just don’t see a huge difference between a brady/brees and a rivers/roethlisberger.

    #95835
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    well.

    if i did the calculations right, goff ends up with a qb rating of 101.1 on the season.

    that should be good for 8th in the league. kirk cousins who was eighth with a 100.9 rating will drop a little after his performance today.

    that’s with kupp out and gurley for 2 games.

    that’s also with a bigger load on his shoulders this season compared to last season in test of attempts per game.

    and it’s a slight improvement over the 100.5 he got last season.

    not too bad. second season in the mcvay offense. third season in the league. he’s progressing.

    #95842
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    just for comparison sake.

    tom brady in his third year ranked 9th in qb rating. 10th in his fourth year.

    drew brees ranked 28th in qb rating his third year. 3rd his fourth year.

    peyton manning 6th his third year. 8th his fourth year.

    by the way goff ranked 5th his sophomore season. manning 4th brady 6th brees 24th.

    long way to go still.

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