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ZooeyModeratorI would think that team preferences and how glamorous the stadium itself looks would be bigger factors than location – though location may be part of the glamorous appearance. I don’t know how much any of that matters. Either stadium will have no problem selling corporate packages. The billboard roof of the Inglewood stadium will draw some interest. I don’t know. I suppose the real test would be to say they are building both stadiums and see how much interest each generates when the corps have to choose.
ZooeyModeratorWho said PEDs?
Could be heroin.
ZooeyModeratorHappy Birthday TSRF !
Not sure that I know what TSRF stands for. I assume the RF stands for Rams Fan, but i dunno about the first two letters. Please choose one from the list below:
Tomato Soup Rams Fan
Texas Style Rams Fan
Totally Smooth Rams Fan
T. S. Eliot Rams Fan (The E is silent)
T-Shirt Rams Fan
someThing elSe Rams FanIt has to be one of these. Notice that there is no choice for “other”.
Certainly it stands for Twin Sities Rams Fans. You would know that if you knew the first thing about Minnesota.
Happy birthday, mister.
ZooeyModeratorI find that quote interesting.
I have wondered about that kind of thing a lot.
I look at a guy like Tom Hanks who wins an Oscar for Forrest Gump, and…he was great. He was.
But I have to think that there’s a thousand actors out there who could have given a performance as good as that. Maybe not better. But as good. 1,000 actors you never heard of.
Kurt Vonnegut once said something along the lines of, “It’s a great tragedy we have mass media because it makes the pool of ‘greatness’ so much smaller. If we didn’t have recordings, the best singer in your village would be the equivalent of Elvis Presley. But because we have recordings and video, one person serves as Elvis Presley for the whole country. So instead of 2 million singers highly revered, each in their communities, we get one guy revered by all the communities, and all those other people live their lives not mattering.”
That is a verrrrry loose paraphrase of what he said. But, you know, I think about that a lot.
May 28, 2015 at 12:47 pm in reply to: take an early guess…what will the offensive approach be? #25434ZooeyModeratorI also think that style of offense DE-emphasizes the need for a super rare stud at QB position
(which is smart cuz they’re hard to come by) and makes it easier to find decent/solid QBs to simply execute the game plan
and be good Point Guards(he posts referencing another sport without knowing what it is).
I only follow football, so my understanding of the world is very limited.
A Point Guard is the player who stands in the crease circle mid-field, and kicks the puck to the shortstops, who try to knock it over the wicket.
ZooeyModeratorI’d have put the Legion of Boom at the top of the list,
myself.Pats won the Ring,
and have no ‘scary units’ ?
Really?w
vTheir film unit. And their equipment managers.
ZooeyModeratorWell, I’m not quite sure which aspect of that is the most disturbing.
ZooeyModeratorShouldn’t we burn sage,
or light candles,
or somethin.“No new Injuries” — I dunno.
Is that the Patriots battle-cry?
Seattle?I hope Fisher knows what
he’s a-doin.w
vI will not know what to say if the Rams do not become a serious team in the next two years.
The drafts have all looked good. The RGIII trade got us a bounty.
There is Fisher, and a staff of highly rated coaches.
They have been the youngest team two years in a row (or close to it), and it’s time they started maturing. There is consistency now in philosophy. It is time to move up the ladder.
ZooeyModeratorI think Foles is good enough to get us to the Playoffs. I think Mannion will be better. I am still drafting Cook next year.
You think he will still be available at #32?
ZooeyModeratorListen, I know this is going to be difficult for you guys to hear, but I’m afraid I just have to say this. The Lakers are the only team that matters. Other teams can win a championship once every 50 years, or whatever, but the Lakers have won 1 out of every 3 championships over the past 35 years, and with all the cap space in the world, and the #2 pick overall, they are a couple of years away from reasserting their Lakerdom.
So…enjoy it while you can.
ZooeyModeratorJust a P.S.
In Bernie’s piece about the marketing survey in St. Louis, he mentioned a survey – not only of fans – but of corporations.
You can bet the NFL is doing that in LA, too.
Which stadium/team do you like better? How much will you pay for a suite? How much will you pay to have the stadium named after you? How much will you pay, pay, pay for this, this, this?
And they are going to add up all the dollars from Inglewoodland, and all the dollars from Carson, and if there is a clear winner, then there is a clear winner. And that you can take to the bank.
ZooeyModeratorgoldman sachs somehow finances it. don’t ask me how. there’s a rumor floating around that spanos with the help of goldman sachs would be able to do the move himself. but then why include oakland in the first place? sounds fishy.
What I gather from those articles is that the Goldman Sachs route has considerably more muscle than the hurriedly-unveiled nebulous project the Chargers originally announced. They have got some real money on board now (though it does not appear to be finalized yet), and the stadium renderings are a step up from the ugly cruise ship they originally unveiled. So they are gaining momentum it would appear. A better stadium, and proven financing once it gets all worked out.
As for why the Raiders, I can only speculate.
The one market survey I read had the Rams, then the Chargers, and in a distant third the Raiders, as the most desirable team in Los Angeles. So the Chargers would presumably be better off with the Raiders as a co-tenant in LA. The Rams would be team 1A, the Chargers team 1B. If it is Chargers and Raiders, the Chargers are likely to emerge as team 1A.
You know – Lakers, Dodgers, Kings.
As opposed to the other tenants – Clippers, Angels, Ducks. Those teams are profitable and doing well, but they aren’t the Lakers, Dodgers, and Kings.
Spanos wants badly to be in LA. He would be better off with the Raiders than the Rams. If Kroenke rolls in and builds Inglewoodland, he’s the man.
It could also be that Spanos – originally lacking financing – needed a partner, and the Raiders were the natural fit for a couple of reasons. Could have been a desperation move. Nevertheless, if there are going to be two teams there, the Carson project is better for him for the reasons I mentioned above.
ZooeyModeratorUse of cell phones for any reason is prohibited while at practice. Reporters may not tweet from practice, and media members may not at any point report details on personnel groups, formations, specific plays, or any information that would compromise the team’s strategic efforts. The Rams have a zero tolerance policy regarding the dissemination of strategic information gathered from practice.
Is that new?
Or have we got all that information from posters in the past?
ZooeyModeratorHappy birthday, PA.
ZooeyModeratorI’m not even sure I understand the principle
behind the “relocation fee.” Why, exactly
does one owner have to pay the other owners money
in order to move a team? Whats the logic there?
I mean if the League makes a bit ‘more’ money
with a team in LA — then shouldnt ‘they’
pay Kroenke to move to LA ?w
vFrom JT:
The relocation fee is designed to compensate club owners for allowing another team to move into a new, lucrative market and basically gets split up among the other teams
“Compensation.” So…extortion, basically.
I haven’t thought much about this before, but now that it has been brought up, I’m stumped. How do Spanos and Davis pay this?
ZooeyModeratorIt has been estimated that the relocation fee for a Rams move back to LA could be in excess of $500 million for team owner Stan Kroenke.
So…JT is using the passive voice here because he doesn’t know WHO made the $500 million estimate.
That number is insane. That is more than half the value of the Rams, Raiders, and probably Chargers. And there is no way that the Raiders or Chargers could afford anything like that number. Kroenke has that kind of money, but that doesn’t make the number sensible.
I don’t know how they can fairly ask more of the Rams than of the other two teams, and clearly that number shuts out Davis and Spanos from the market. Hell, they don’t even have enough money yet to go halvsies on a stadium, never mind a relocation fee of any size at all. I just don’t see how Spanos and Davis come out on top, in spite of what JT wrote.
When it comes to decision time, Kroenke’s project is more glamorous, it’s ready to go right now, and he’s got the money. If money is the language of the NFL, Kroenke is the one who speaks that language best.
May 23, 2015 at 1:58 pm in reply to: New St. Louis Rams Stadium May Be Built On Ancient Native American City #25146ZooeyModeratorThe article was interesting the way it was worded. Evidently the Osage tribe claims some sort of link, but the way it was stated suggested that direct descendency from the Cahokia is uncertain. Also of note on that score is that the Osage tribe doesn’t want them excavated, either. Of course, there is no way they get their wish. That area is not going to be left as is because of the mounds. Their desecration is a fait accompli, and the majority of voters are just not going to sympathize with a solution that says leave everything the way it is for the rest of eternity when it is unattractive urban decay. I mean, if they were talking about removing some mounds NOW, I am sure in this age that there is no way they could do that. But they are long, long gone. And it cannot be turned into a park, or monument, or whatever, because several mounds are under freeways. So the place is going to be developed.
The only question is the timeline.
Because not only are there some Native Americans to work with, there is some historical/archaeological interest. How much? I have no idea. I am sure there is some scholar out there who is curious enough to want to dig through the area in hopes of finding something unique or valuable. There is no way of knowing if that kind of academic interest will get any push.
I do not think the final outcome is in doubt. The area will be redeveloped. Again…the question is the timeline. Will this delay moving forward, or will it just be another hoop to jump through while all the other hoops are jumped through?
It isn’t good news, though.
ZooeyModeratorsomewhat misleading. all zelasko and johnson do is throw out some rumor that there was an 8 to 10 vote in favor of a rams move, but they make it clear they don’t know where this vote came from. they only suppose it’s from the finance committee because of the ten total votes. they also throw out a rumor that mayor butts supposedly said gave a cryptic answer when someone asked if there would be an announcement in August about the rams moving to los angeles, which he completely denied saying later.
so no real information here other than rumor mongering.
Yes, there are some articles out there about Mayor Butts. Some reporter from KTLA said he had a text from an extremely reliable source that said the Rams are moving to LA for sure, and the announcement is coming in August. He claimed to have spoken with Butts at some event with 500 people, with the fire chief and police chief of Inglewood also in the conversation, during which Butts allegedly confirmed the story.
Skeptics point out that the story is unbelievable because – among other things – the window to file for relocation isn’t even open, and furthermore, making an announcement in August would be terrible timing for the NFL because it would cost millions of dollars in lost revenue.
It’s possible the finance committee approved Kroenke’s project FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT, and that got “telephoned” from one person to another as a vote to approve the move.
ZooeyModeratorHappy birthday, Old Chum.
May 22, 2015 at 11:10 pm in reply to: New St. Louis Rams Stadium May Be Built On Ancient Native American City #25125ZooeyModeratorWe’re surrounded by native American sites here in SD and if anything is unearthed while digging anything – construction stops until it gets sorted out. How long depends on the significance of what was unearthed and how big it is.
Apparently Missouri does not have those protective laws.
It is private land, and they can do whatever they want as long as they do not take any federal money for the project. I have no idea how they would get federal money anyway, or if that was part of their planning.
But it seems to me that this is – at best – a PR snag Peacock cannot afford, since the need to have everything nailed down is urgent. At worst, there could be litigation, though I don’t know what grounds anyone would have to sue over it.
Kroenke is opening a bottle of his finest tonight, methinks.
May 22, 2015 at 9:45 pm in reply to: New St. Louis Rams Stadium May Be Built On Ancient Native American City #25122ZooeyModerator
Oh, boy.
Well, we know what Peacock is going to spend the weekend talking about.
My first instinct – while a lot of questions remain to be asked – would be to find out what an archaeological survey is, exactly, and how quickly one could get started and finished. Do it now.
Here are a couple other stories that I don’t even have time to read right now, cuz I gotta go:
ZooeyModeratorWell, I wish I could fast forward to the part about the Rams, especially since I accidentally refreshed the page and have to start again at the beginning of a 43 minute piece.
But my reaction without hearing it is this: the NFL Finance Committee’s approval was a foregone conclusion, I would think. It doesn’t mean approval of the move. All it means is that the committee believes that the financing to back the plan is reliable, and they verify that the project is financially sound. That’s all it means, though, and everybody already knew that. So Kroenke is in the lead at that particular post again, but – again – that was already known. Carson and St. Louis are still assembling financing, and San Diego and Oakland don’t have anything to finance yet.
If Carson or St. Louis gets financing together, they can pull even with Kroenke instantly. Then they move on to the other considerations. If they don’t get financing together, they are out anyway. So this is not game-changing information.
May 21, 2015 at 6:08 pm in reply to: How do you feel about a starting tackle pair of Robinson & Havenstein? #25044ZooeyModeratorIf Barnes starts, it’s a bad sign, and if it’s Jones or Rhaney, it’s a rookie. Basically.
I don’t know about that on Barnes. That is, I don’t think anyone knows just yet. The complaint about Barnes is that he was physically overmatched when he played at the end of 2013. However, he reported to camp last summer bulked up and stronger. We didn’t get to see him, though, because he got injured (twice). So it’s possible he took a step. I don’t rule it out, anyway. On the 3 centers we don’t know (yet) what they have.
Well, you asked us all how we FEEL about it, so I thought we were going to be free to…emote. And if your going to invite us to open up and expose our vulnerabilities, and then just bludgeon us with your Vulcan sensibilities, then I’m going to ask you to leave this thread.
May 21, 2015 at 2:44 pm in reply to: How do you feel about a starting tackle pair of Robinson & Havenstein? #25040ZooeyModeratorAnd three rookies?
Well to be annoyingly exact, it’s not 3 rookies. The center will be Barnes, Jones, or Rhaney, none of whom of course are rookies.
AND this team likes its placeholders. They have several candidates to hold down the guard spot until Brown is ready. Or, ready-er. That’s anyone from Washinton to Bond to Reynolds to Unknown Player to be Named Later. I mean think of who they have used at guard so far since 2012—Turner, Smith, Williams. Is there someone on the roster at least as good as them? Could be, sure.
Now granted I did not just describe the 70s or 80s Rams OL.
But it is at least better than “3 rookies.”
Technically. OK.
But they are redshirted, basically.
If Barnes starts, it’s a bad sign, and if it’s Jones or Rhaney, it’s a rookie. Basically.
At center, no less.
May 21, 2015 at 1:43 pm in reply to: How do you feel about a starting tackle pair of Robinson & Havenstein? #25037ZooeyModeratorI’m feeling like the Rams are taking another mulligan year, frankly.
Let’s go 2016.No way, dude.
I like the idea of a young, healthy, mauling, ornery OLine.
I like this team. Playoffs, this year.
Maybe even a Home playoff game. In St.Louis. O dear.
w
vJust 2-3 blown blocking assignments per game, and the Rams lose. How many times over the past couple of years have we said, “The Rams were in it until ______.”
It’s too many greenhorns. Saffold is the only vet. Robinson won’t be the main problem, but he’s still going to lose battles that he will win in another year. And three rookies?
They will probably rush the ball just fine. Maulers, as you say.
ZooeyModeratorLaCanfora thinks Carson has the advantage.
JASON LA CANFORA
CBS Sports NFL InsiderChargers-Raiders stadium co-op leads NFL’s LA return, but Rams may fight
The joint stadium project between the Chargers and Raiders in Carson, Calif., continues to gain momentum and there was strong positive buzz about their plan coming out owners meeting in San Francisco this week, according to several high-ranking ownership sources. Meanwhile, concerns linger as to whether Rams owner Stan Kroenke can force his way out of St. Louis without a protracted fight.
Chargers owner Dean Spanos, among the league’s more respected owners, has exhibited great patience in navigating his franchise through an uncertain stadium situation in San Diego and continued to earn kudos from other ownership groups at the meeting. The NFL intent to be in Los Angeles by 2016 cannot be understated and several sources maintained they would have to consider the Chargers/Raiders project in Carson as the early favorite.
There is a certain political element to this process, in securing necessary votes for franchise relocation — in this case a dual relocation — and Spanos has moved expertly, sources said. And Raiders owners Mark Davis is a highly-motivated wingman willing to let Spanos take the lead when required. The Raiders are mostly willing to do what the league wants, and go along for the ride to Southern California and plentiful revenue streams that come from a new facility. The willingness to collaborate with the Chargers, their longtime rivals, speaks to the potential potency of this project and it continues to curry favor with other important owners at a critical.
Meanwhile, Kroenke has shown willingness to go rogue and faces more of an uphill climb with his Inglewood project, at least in lining up support from owners on the powerful stadium and finance committees, sources said. With his full-speed-ahead approach regarding LA, he’s seen as more of an outsider than Spanos and has rubbed the league office the wrong way. So all things being equal, people very close to some of the NFL’s most respected ownership groups believe the Carson project has the best chance of winning this race.
That’s not to say Kroenke will go easily, and this scenario could be a precursor to an ugly legal fight. The NFL could well deem St. Louis has a formidable ongoing stadium project and the Chargers and Raiders are in greater need of a new immediate home. But with Kroenke procuring the land and a finance deal on his own, and his St. Louis lease up again at the end of the season, he just might — ironically — take a page from Al Davis’ book and go to court to fight for his right to party every Sunday in Los Angeles rather than stay in St. Louis, where he clearly has no plans of staying.
Don’t discount for an instant Kroenke’s desire to get to California, but he’s failed to curry favor the same way others have and the NFL will flex its muscles to maintain control of the process. Telling any uber-successful magnate what he can or can’t do with his business and land is always a good way to prompt a significant response, and that’s just what we might get in this case.
As for the Chargers and Raiders, if they merely stay in course, things could be lining up their way. It’s clear the municipalities around Carson are on board. Certainly a hurdle or two could come their way — AEG will try to obfuscate the process, I’m sure — and there could be environmental issues down the road (there often are, especially in California) but this thing is coming to a head by the winter and the support behind this project is strengthening at the league’s highest reaches.
Could well be the Chargers and Raiders both move in 2016. It would take two game-day facilities to do so — sources at The Rose Bowl have continued to tell me they cannot support two teams at the same time — and it could be both teams would use their current training facilities for practices for the first season in LA. Some in the know have speculated the Chargers, in exchange for getting the keys to LA, end up moving to the NFC, with perhaps the Cardinals going to the AFC West, which would maintain the Raiders’ rivalries with the Chiefs and Broncos, for as much as that is worth.
Bottom line is if it gets to that stage, the issue of realignment would be no hindrance. There are plenty of parties more than motivated to shuffle around their current division to complete this complicated deal, and the right people continue to have a positive enough view of the Carson solution to make me believe that’s likely where this thing is headed, barring unforeseen roadblocks forming. And all that could well lead to a lot of very rich lawyers getting even richer should Kroenke take the nuclear route to getting what he wants.
May 21, 2015 at 10:45 am in reply to: How do you feel about a starting tackle pair of Robinson & Havenstein? #25029ZooeyModeratorI’m feeling like the Rams are taking another mulligan year, frankly.
Let’s go 2016.
ZooeyModeratoryeah. it’s all pretty obscene. but that’s what the nfl wants.
inglewood is also undergoing mass gentrification. you got santa monica, venice, marina del rey, and manhattan beach to the west. beverly hills and west los angeles are less than 30 minutes to the north. it would be an absolute spectacle during super bowls and possible pro bowls. and like you said with all the hotels, shopping, and other venues. there’d definitely be that hollywood party atmosphere. plus nfl network would be based there. a kind of second home base. i also see the nfl draft being held there. it’d be a prime spot for celebrities to be seen being so close to the airport and beaches.
carson? it’s kind of a dump. redondo beach and long beach aren’t so happening. inglewood is a dump too. but like i said. real estate developers in california see a lot of potential there.
Ever been to Disneyland?
Just on the other side of that glamorous facade…is a shitty Anaheim boulevard.
But it isn’t part of your world when you’re in Disneyland. You are in the Magic Kingdom.
Nobody cares what Inglewood looks like on the backside of those chic sidewalk cafes just across the plaza from that fabulous stadium. There will be enough stuff around for the cameras to love.
ZooeyModerator2. St. Louis has without question made the best appeal to keep its team, but that won’t matter when it comes to the vote. These are a bunch of billionaires, few of whom are going to allow sentiment about the people holding the short end of the stick at the end of the deal to affect their votes. Just as Wal-mart sheds no tears over the effects on employees of store closures, these guys aren’t going to worry about St. Louis in any way beyond its potential as a market. Fairness and loyalty and all that shit aren’t going to matter. This is business. If they decide that the Rams/Kroenke’s plan is the best thing for the league, they will tell St. Louis with a straight face to just wait at the altar while they go find another groom.
A short footnote here, fwiw.
I think what St. Louis is doing WOULD matter if the two LA stadium proposals were a toss-up. I think in that case it would come much closer to receiving the weight it merits.
I am convinced, though, after hours of pondering, that the NFL is just not going to be able to resist the vast scope of NFL World that Kroenke proposes. That entire development project – with all the hotels, restaurants, theatre, shopping, studios – this is Hollywood level glamour. Cue the crane shots and the soaring music as crowds saunter through the parks and around the splendid fountains.
This is the Everything. This is a Crown Jewel.
And it’s zoned, permitted, and paid for. And there’s a nice little 9-figure check in there for all the owners.
To think the owners are going to stand on their bylaws in the face of that is naive, imo. It would matter if the projects were comparable. But they aren’t.
ZooeyModeratoryeah. this is the same group of billionaires who have no problem holding cities hostage and trying to squeeze every dollar they can out of them for a new stadium.
my best guess is the raiders to st. louis. if it’s true that davis will have a hard time keeping the team after carol passes, he will need to sell the team. it solves a lot of problems. it gets rid of the raiders whose name is mostly irrelevant in today’s nfl. it gets rid of the davis name which has been a sore spot for the owners. it establishes a true geographical rivalry between kansas city and st. louis. the rams are back in los angeles which the league was against in the first place. it establishes one of its strongest owners (let me emphasize that by strong i mean rich) in the second biggest media market in the nation.
and if i was kroenke. this would be my biggest selling point. if the chargers somehow stay in san diego. the league can still extort money from cities by threatening a move of a second team to los angeles to play in kroenke’s brand new stadium.
nefarious i tell ya. nefarious.
Absolutely. Yes. All of that.
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