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April 16, 2016 at 3:10 pm in reply to: Clayton says the move by the Rams was out of desperation #42108
znModeratorZn thinks that ‘teams’ have rated G/W higher than
the pundits have…but i have not read that, myself.
(do teams really tip the media off on that stuff?)They can and do, but it’s usually under these conditions—anonymously, and with other teams in the discussion too, so it’s harder to figure out who it is.
Here’s an example:
Rand Getlin @Rand_Getlin
Been told multiple times that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff graded out higher for a number of teams than Mariota and Winston did last year.April 16, 2016 at 1:38 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42104
znModeratorfrom off the net
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TomSlick
The Bay Area media is very high on Goff, and quite perturbed that the RAMS will get Goff and trash the niners for years to come. For that reason alone, draft Goff.
April 16, 2016 at 12:00 pm in reply to: Path to the Draft one hour special Saturday at 8 PM ET solely about Goff/Wentz #42098
znModeratorIs this on the internet or on TV? What web address or network?
NFL Network, tv
April 16, 2016 at 11:57 am in reply to: Clayton says the move by the Rams was out of desperation #42096
znModeratorWhen is the last time the Rams had a 12-15 year QB?
Well they did have one in Bradford. But he only lasted 5 years.
April 16, 2016 at 11:12 am in reply to: audio & vidz: Fisher/Snead on the trade & more Fisher, 4/14-16 #42091
znModeratorJeff Fisher, Los Angeles Rams
Los Angeles Rams head coach Jeff Fisher joins Max and Marcellus to discuss the upcoming season and the return of NFL football to the city of Los Angeles.
Fisher Starts At 4:10
znModeratorGreg Cosell’s draft preview: Carson Wentz’s valid Andrew Luck comp
Greg Cosell
Leading up to the NFL draft on April 28-30, NFL Films’ Greg Cosell will be sharing his views on many of the top prospects based on his extensive film study of those players.
Andrew Luck was considered a rare prospect, and as such, people are hesitant to compare other high-level prospects to Luck.
I believe Carson Wentz is a high-level prospect, my top quarterback in this draft class, and I think the comparison to Luck is valid.
What happens down the road in any prospect’s career is pure speculation, and how Wentz does in the NFL is a product of many variables. So I don’t know how Wentz’s NFL career will compare to what Luck has done or will continue to do. But I see many similarities between the two quarterbacks.
Like Luck, Wentz is smart. He was a 4.0 student at North Dakota State. Physically, the two are similar, and we’ll get to that in a bit. One thing that stood out to me about Wentz is his poise in critical moments. That reminds me of Luck as well.
Wentz, with his team trailing 28-24 against Northern Iowa last season, led a late drive and threw a game-winning touchdown in the final minute. He converted a couple key fourth downs and showed outstanding poise and composure. It was an excellent combination of patience and aggressiveness. (Move ahead to 11:24 of the video below to watch him lead the game-winning drive.)
Physically there’s a lot to like about Wentz too, and there are more reminders of Luck. Wentz is a very good athlete for a 6-foot-5, 237-pound quarterback (Wentz is actually a smoother-looking athlete than Luck because his body type is different: he is longer and leaner than Luck despite weighing 237 pounds). He has an awareness of how to play the position, like Luck. He has the ability to drive the ball when the throw demands it, as Luck does.
Wentz has very good arm strength. He is a tight, compact, easy thrower for a big quarterback. The ball comes out with velocity. Wentz can clearly drive the ball, which is a result of a strong core and lower body.
Wentz isn’t just a fastball thrower. He has showed the refinement to throw with touch and pace when demanded. He can make firm, touch seam throws that are part of NFL passing games. He showed an excellent feel for the different kinds of throws that are necessary for the situation.
There were other things I liked about Wentz when I watched the film: He had an excellent command of the offense, controlling the game at the line of scrimmage when needed with a lot of audibles and checks. He excelled in a structured passing game that asked him to make progression reads and difficult NFL-type throws. All of that will help in his transition to the pro game.
He also is a good runner. There were times when the NDSU offense looked like the Carolina Panthers offense with its multiple backfield actions and run game dimensions.
If a team decides to use Wentz as a regular part of their running game, as the Panthers do with Cam Newton, he has the ability to excel in that role.
Wentz has many skills you like to see, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be an NFL success. Going back to the Luck example, even though the assumption was that Luck’s decision making wouldn’t be a problem in the NFL because of his high-level intelligence, he hasn’t been a consistently good decision maker in the pros — that’s a part of Luck’s game he must continue to work on. So it’s always tough to project any prospect, no matter the position. There’s a lot of variables involved in becoming a high-level NFL player, especially at quarterback.
I can only tell you what I’ve seen on tape from the prospects going into the draft. And what I’ve seen from Wentz is pretty good. He’s my No. 1 quarterback in this draft.
znModeratorThe NFL Draft Report’s “Cream of the Crop” Series – The Complete Scouting Reports on the 2016 Draft’s Top Quarterbacks – Carson Wentz, Jared Goff
and Paxton LynchTHE NFL DRAFT REPORT PRESENTS THE 2016 NFL DRAFT QUARTERBACK ANALYSIS – PART II
In Part Two of our four-part series analyzing the 2016 NFL Draft Quarterback Class, The NFL Draft Report examines three potential first round prospects, looking at the gridiron careers from high school through college. Very detailed scouting reports and analysis are provided on North Carolina State’s Carson Wentz, California’s Jared Goff and Paxton Lynch from Memphis.
Also provided is a draft history, looking back at the NFL’s reliance of the quarterback position since the draft’s inception in 1936, the trends set after the two leagues merged to form a universal draft in 1970 and a look at the first round’s booms-&-busts over the years.
THE NFL’S QUARTERBACK DRAFT INFATUATION
Since the draft’s inception in 1936, 1,027 college quarterbacks have been selected. That figure includes 665 signal-callers entering training camp since the two leagues merged and held a universal draft in 1970. Since the turn of the century in 2000, 198 of these quarterbacks have heard their names called on draft day.
That group of passers includes 155 first round choices used since 1936, with 96 coming after the merger and 42 joining the league since the year 2000. Within that opening round collection, 31 have been the top overall selection during their respective draft year, with 21 earning that distinction since 1970 and eleven stepping on to the podium first since 2000.
Among the first round quarterbacks are thirteen that eventually ended up earning Hall of Fame honors. While Pittsburgh’s D’Angelo Williams might not be a fan of his, the measuring stick for elite quarterbacks – at least in the first round – has been Peyton Manning. Taken with the top pick in the 1998 draft by the Indianapolis Colts, among all first round quarterbacks, he leads that group in games played (266), games started (265), most victories (189), most pass completions (6,125), most pass attempts (9,380), most touchdown passes (539) and most yards passing.
John Hadl (tenth pick in the 1962 draft by Detroit) holds the dubious honor for throwing the most interceptions (268) among the first round passers – Manning ranks fifth on that chart with 251. Only nineteen first round quarterbacks have completed 2,500 passes during their career, while only eleven have attempted at least 5,000 throws. Ten signal-callers accounted for 250 touchdown tosses, but outside of Manning, only Miami’s Dan Marino (27th choice in 1983) has reached the 400-TD level (420).
Ten quarterbacks have accounted for at least 40,000 yards passing. However, outside of Manning (71,940) and Marino (61,361), the only other first round pick to tally at least 50,000 aerial yards was Denver’s John Elway, the top overall choice by Baltimore in 1983 before forcing a trade to the Broncos. Fourteen of these passers have recorded at least 200 interceptions. Behind Hadl, the only other QBs with at least 250 interceptions are Manning (251), Marino (252), Norm Snead (1961 second overall pick by Washington, 257 thefts) and Vinny Testaverde (Tampa’s top pick in 1987, 267).
As for mobile quarterbacks, Michael Vick (top pick by Atlanta in 2001) leads the first round group with 6,109 yards rushing. Hall of Famer, Otto Graham (fourth choice in 1944 by Detroit) is the top scoring producer among quarterbacks with 44 touchdown runs. That record will soon fall during the early stages of 2016, as Carolina’s top selection in 2011, Cam Newton, has already piled up 43 touchdowns on the ground during his short, but highly productive career.
Being a first round quarterback does not lead to entitlement. Eighteen first round choice at the position played no more that fifteen games before their careers ended, including five that appeared in less than ten contests and two that never reached the playing field – Harry Agganis, the 12th overall pick by Cleveland in 1952, and New York Titans’ fifth overall choice in 1962, Sandy Stephens.
Whether he gets another chance to play in this league, or not, perhaps the most polarizing first rounder in recent years is Cleveland’s castoff, Johnny Manziel, the 22nd pick in the 2014 draft. His off-field issues left him with a 2-6 record as a starter, throwing for seven touchdowns and seven interceptions before getting the boot.
Don Allard was the fourth overall pick by Washington in 1959, but he appeared in just five games and never threw a pass before quitting after the 1962 season. San Francisco guru, the late Bill Walsh, missed the target badly with his first round selection of Jim Druckenmiller in 1997. In two season, the Virginia Tech grad had one touchdown and four interceptions in six appearances.
Rich Campbell went to Green Bay with the sixth pick in 1981, but never started the seven games he played in through the 1984 schedule. Bobby Garrett appeared in nine games and gained 143 yards passing after he was the top overall choice by Cleveland in 1954. Outside of Druckenmiller, the other first round quarterbacks to start only one game during their careers were the Rams’ Terry Baker )top pick in 1963), who lasted eighteen games as a reserve through three seasons and Stan Heath, the fifth overall pick by Green Bay in 1949 who appeared in twelve contests during that lone season in the league.
The first round quarterback to perform in at least 100 games with the least amount of starts was Rice’s King Hill, the top overall pick in the 1958 by the Chicago Cardinals. He moved with the team to St. Louis before playing in Philadelphia and Minnesota. He compiled a 7-22-1 record as a starter, generating 5,553 yards passing that included 37 touchdowns and 71 interceptions from the 1958-69 seasons.
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THE 2016 NFL DRAFT QUARTERBACK CLASS FIRST ROUND CONTENDERS
CARSON WENTZ Quarterback North Dakota State University Bison #11 6:05.2-237
In just two years as a starter, Wentz has delivered the Bison a pair of NCAA Football Championship Subdivision national championships. He has started just twenty-three games, compiling a 20-3 record at the helm. A right wrist fracture sidelined him for most of the second half of the 2015 schedule, but he returned in time to help the team record its fourth consecutive FCS title.
Despite those limited starting opportunities, Wentz finished his career ranking third in school history with 392 completions of 612 passes (61.2%) for 5,115 yards and 45 touchdowns while throwing only fourteen interceptions through 43 appearances. Quite mobile for a player his size, he also scored thirteen times and generated 1,028 yards on 216 carries (4.8 ypc). What he has become known for is his heroics, as he led the team to victory within the final minute of four contests as a Bison.
THE FAMILY SPORTS PROGRAM
With his imposing frame, Wentz looks more like a linebacker – in fact, much like his father, Zach, who was a standout linebacker. He captured All-Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference first-team honors in 1986, playing for the Northern State Wolves who earned the league title that year after Minnesota-Morris was forced to forfeit all their victories for using an ineligible player.
Carson’s older brother, Zach, was a pitcher and infielder for the North Dakota State baseball team. As a junior, he batted .292 and led the team in at-bats (216), runs (39), hits (63), doubles (17), homers (5) and total bases (95). His216 at-bats in 2011 were the second most in NDSU single-season history and he stretched a team-best 14-game hitting streak from the second weekend of play in February through the end of the end of spring break.
During that span, Zach went 26-for-62 (.419) over that span and raised his batting average from .111 to a season-high .380. He closed out his four-year career with a 13-16 record that included seven complete games as a pitcher. He also compiled a .334 batting average while recording 269 hits in 805 at bats, cracking 20 home runs and 133 runs batted in through 209 contests before signing a pro contract to play for the Fargo-Moorhead RedHawks in 2012.
Carson’s cousin, Connor, was a teammate on the North Dakota State football team, joining the Bison as a tight end in 2013. As a red-shirt freshman last season, he played in fifteen games. He managed to catch four passes for 42 yards, but two of those grabs were good for touchdowns.
THEY COULN’T SINK THIS BISMARCK PROSPECT
Wentz was a do-all type of athlete before graduating from Bismarck Century High School in 2011, where he competed in football, basketball and baseball. Off the field, he served as his class valedictorian. When he first arrived on campus as a freshman, he stood only 5-foot-8 and weighed in at 125 pounds. By the time he graduated four years later, he had grown ten inches and put on over one hundred pounds to his frame.
If only he could reach six-feet tall, he thought to himself. Then, just maybe, the high school coaches would look at him as the potential starting quarterback at Century High School. “That’s what I was praying for,” Wentz said. The prayers were answered, and then some. Before he became the 6-foot-6, 231-pound starting quarterback for North Dakota State in 2014, he was a growing boy in high school.
He reached 5-foot-10 as a sophomore and that’s when things really started to take off. He grew to 6-3 as a junior and 6-5 as a senior. “You could see the frame coming, but by no means did we estimate 6-5 or 6-6,” said Century head football coach Ron Wingenbach. “Just the physical awareness you see of Carson now is the most imposing thing. Look at the weight; he’s put on a lot of good pounds.”
The National Honor Society member led the Patriots to an 8-3 record, a conference title and to the state semi-finals as a gridiron sophomore and senior. He missed his junior football season after injuring his arm playing baseball, but he returned and was named the 2010 North Dakota Class 3A Player of the Year while playing for coach Wingenbach. He also received All-State at-large accolades, along with being named All-Conference at both quarterback and defensive back. As a senior, he completed 91-of-149 passes for 1,285 yards and 12 touchdowns. He rushed 85 times for 553 yards and 13 scores, in addition to recording 61 tackles and two interceptions.
A three-year starter for baseball team, he played first base for the 2010 American Legion and high school state runner-up teams. He batted .386 with 26 RBIs for Century High coach Mike Gustavsson as junior, and also hit .421 with 41 RBIs for the Bismarck Governors Legion. He was also a starting forward/center for the state’s top-ranked basketball team.
In two seasons as the Bison starting quarterback, Wentz has completed 63.25% of his passes (358-of-566) with 42 touchdown tosses
WENTZ DECIDES TO STAY CLOSE TO HOMEWentz did not receive any major college scholarship offers as a late bloomer coming out of high school. The Central Michigan Chippewas were coached by Dan Enos back in 2011 and he was one of the few FBS coaches who showed interest in Wentz, who shut down his recruitment right before Central Michigan came through with an offer.
“They didn’t technically offer, but when I called to tell them I was confirming and declaring to go to North Dakota State University, they told me they were going to fly out this week to get me an offer. But I just wanted to go play and wanted to go win games and I think I made the right decision,” Wentz said.
Wentz might have had a change of heart if he had known he would pine on the bench during his first three seasons at NDSU. He was red-shirted his entire first season with the Bison, and in 2012, he was relegated to backup quarterback duties behind the Bison’s starting quarterback, Brock Jensen. In his college debut, Wentz completed all eight of his passes for 93 yards and threw his first touchdown pass after coming in to relieve Jensen during a 66-7 blowout victory over Prairie View A&M University. He finished that season completing 12 of 16 pass attempts for 144 passing yards and two touchdowns.
Although Wentz was still the second string quarterback in 2013, he appeared minimally in eleven games. He had his best game that season vs. Delaware State University, finishing with 10-of-13 completions for 105 passing yards and a touchdown. His season figures saw him complete 22 of 30 passes for 209 yards and a touchdown.
With Jensen having graduated, Wentz stepped into the starting role for the Bison in 2014, leading the team to a 15-1 record and another national title. He established school season records behind 228 completions of 358 passes (63.7%) for 3,111 yards, as his 25 touchdown tosses ranked second on the NDSU annual chart. He also averaged 4.7 yards per carry while scoring six times on the ground.
During a game vs. Western Illinois, Wentz caught a 16-yard touchdown pass from running back John Crockett and lead the Bison to a 17-10 comeback victory. He had his best game vs. Missouri State, throwing for 247 yards and five touchdowns. In his first National Championship game vs. Illinois State, he passed for 287 yards, a touchdown and rushed for 87 yards and scored a 5-yard scamper to give North Dakota State the lead with 37 seconds left, going on to a 29-27 win and the school’s fourth-straight national title.
The fifth year senior started the first six games on the 2015 schedule before suffering a right wrist fracture in the first half of the South Dakota clash. He had just thrown for 335 yards the previous week vs. Northern Iowa and even with his wrist injured, he completed 16-of-28 passes for 195 yards and two scores before leaving the USD contest.
After starting the first six games of the season and completing 63.7% of his passes for a total of 1,454 yards, and 16 touchdowns, he would go on to miss the next eight weeks of the season. He returned to practice in the beginning of December and was cleared to play in the National Championship. He would lead the Bison to its fifth consecutive FCS National Championship, running for two touchdowns and throwing for a third.
Wentz was also named the NCAA Division I Championship Game Most Outstanding Player for the second straight year. He finished the season connecting on 130-of-208 attempts for 1,651 yards and seventeen touchdowns vs. only four interceptions. He also scored six times as a ball carrier, averaging 4.7 yards on 63 rushes.
The four-time Missouri Valley Football Conference Honor Roll member would cap his career off the field, as the two-time MVFC All-Academic first-team selection added NCAA Elite 90 Award and 2015 CoSIDA Academic All-American of the Year honors. He was also a two-time CoSIDA Academic All-America and Academic All-District choice, in addition to receiving the 2012 and 2013 MVFC Commissioner’s Academic Excellence Award.
Wentz might have come from the small college ranks, but several league officials at the 2016 Senior Bowl called him the “most NFL-ready QB in years”
THE HIT OF THE SENIOR BOWLWhen Michigan State quarterback Connor Cook opted not to play in the 2016 Senior Bowl, it gave Wentz a grand opportunity to shine under the spotlight in Mobile, Alabama during the cold 2016 January weather. The draft’s other top quarterback prospects, California’s Jared Goff and Memphis’ Paxton Lynch, are juniors and, thus, were ineligible to play in the game. Wentz seized the role of the top performer throughout practices, thus solidifying his status as the draft’s top signal-caller.
“I don’t know of any quarterback that doesn’t want to be the top guy in their class,” Wentz said, when told about Cook deciding not to attend the game. “And if you don’t think you are or don’t think you have the ability to be that, you’re probably in the wrong sport. Because we’re all competitors, we’re playing football here. We want to be the best at our respective positions, and that’s always the goal.”
Scouts and coaches throughout the Senior Bowl practices were impressed while often seeing Wentz put his outstanding accuracy, crisp passing, mechanical sharpness and decisiveness on display. In the game, he completed 6-of-10 passes for 50 yards. He then further showcased his athleticism at the 2016 NFL Scouting Combine. He ranked among the position’s top three performers in the 40-yard dash (4.77), the broad jump (9-foot-10) and the three-cone drill (6.86) while measuring in at 6-foot-5.2 and weighing 237 pounds.
WENTZ SCOUTING ANALYSIS
Body Structure…Wentz shows good upper and lower body bone structure, with solid chest, shoulder and arm thickness. He has a strong bubble and thighs, with well-defined calves and a frame that could develop to 245 pounds with no loss in quickness. Despite his impressive weight, he looks a bit lean, but he has very good power to break arm tackles on those occasions when he runs with the ball.
Athletic Ability…Wentz displays good quickness and mobility for his position, which is evident by the way he has to can elude pressure while keeping the ball secure. He is equally effective throwing on the move as he is standing in the pocket. He has good flexibility and leg drive moving back from center to his past set point. He has functional playing speed and while he won’t win many long distance foot races, he does show good balance to break arm tackles on the move. While not blazing fast, he does show fluid change of direction agility and good strength, evident by the fact that he converted 10-of-12 third-down carries into first downs as a junior. He runs with a normal stride and shows good movement retreating in the pocket. His balance and body control allow him to throw on roll-outs and he displays good lateral agility, evident by the way he slides to avoid pocket pressure. While more of a drop-back passer, he has the arm strength to throw on the move. With his feet, he did produce twelve touchdowns during his last 24 appearances.
Football Sense…Despite having just two seasons as a starter under his belt at NDSU, from “day one” of arriving on campus, you could tell from that first practice that Wentz was a good student of the game, one that can easily adjust from college ball to raise his game to another level in a pro style passing attack. There is no question that he has a solid feel for pre-snap reads, doing a nice job of making checks and locating secondary targets (he distributed the ball to an average of eight different receivers per game in 2014-15). He is a smart passer with keen eyes scanning the field, following through with his progressions, but most of his interceptions in 2014 (had ten) were the result of his targets passively making attempts at the ball in traffic (five of his thefts first touched NDSU players first before being picked off). He has those innate instincts, along with developing decision making skills that makes one feel he can handle a pro offense in a short time. He can easily be called a “student of the game,” as he is the type who will shut off the lights in the film room, and he does well in school and should not have problems digesting a complicated play book. Wentz reads coverage well and makes proper checks, showing football savvy and field smarts. He is quick to retain plays and takes the plays from the board to the field with no problems, and boasts some very impressive credentials academically, including All-American accolades.
Competitiveness…Wentz might play an elite position, but he takes pride in his blue-collar work ethic. He is a good team leader and has excellent huddle command, as he has proven to be both mentally and physically tough in the trenches (see 2015 South Dakota game – wrist injury). He is considered a coach on the field and is mature enough to take what the defenses give him, as he excels at keeping his mistakes to a minimum. He is confident in his leadership role and is rarely rattled, especially under pressure. He does the little extras to improve and shows good emotion on the field. He will step up and stand tall in the pocket, but when covered, he has confidence in his mobility, speed and tackle-breaking power to secure the ball and head up field as a ball carrier.
Work Habits…Wentz works hard in the off-season, and is starting to gain the reputation for being the type of player that the coaches will have to kick out of the film room. He is the type that will spend a considerable amount of time with his position coach during his spare hours. He has a good work ethic and is a fine student, along with being a respected leader in the huddle and locker room. He will play with pain and continues to gain poise and confidence working within a pro-style system. He has a team-first attitude and his leadership ability, takes control in the huddle and is a good leader-by-example type.
Wentz puts all of his power behind his deep throws, setting a school season-record with 3,111 aerial yards as a junior
Set Up…Wentz shows good balance and body control driving back from center, displaying the enough quickness with his feet to get into position to make all of his throws. He has good upper and lower body mechanics, as he also displays enough functional strength to break arm tackles on the move. He has developed into more of a classic drop back passer and has become more comfortable in a three- or five-step drop. He also has experience working from the shotgun. He does a nice job of scanning the field and looks comfortable setting up in the pocket and executing his follow-through. He shows good fluidity and quickness when he sets up and is a pretty athletic mover. He can throw on the move and while not blazingly fast going long distances, he sets up quickly and is ready to throw in an instant. He shows the ability to reach his throwing point while maintaining body control and his balance allows him to stand tall in the pocket.Reading Defenses…In two seasons as a starter, Wentz proved to be very capable of handling the mental aspect of the game, as he was a master at improvising. He is a quick decision maker and even when he makes the wrong move, he does not allow his mistakes to linger and rarely shows any frustration on the field or in the huddle. He is a good field technician, knowing how to operate within the framework of the offense, which is predicated on him making quick reads and getting the ball out to his receivers even before his targets are able to break, as this prevents the opponents from getting into position to defend vs. his slower wide-outs. It is rare to see him force the ball into a crowd, and he excels at reading defenses. He shows excellent patience while sitting back, sifting through coverage and then picking apart zones (see 2015 Weber State, North Dakota and Northern Iowa games). When he forces some into coverage, it is because he holds the ball too long, but he is very good at distributing the sphere and looking for his secondary targets. The thing that stands out is his ability to throw with touch and good timing. When flushed out of the pocket, he has enough agility to throw on the run, but he is learning that without quality receivers, he is better served throwing the ball away than force the pass into traffic.
Wentz can connect with his receivers with incredible consistency. He tied the school game-record with five touchdown passes vs. Missouri State in 2014 and completed 29 tosses to ten different receivers in the 2015 Northern Iowa contest
Release …Wentz does throw with a ¾-release, but he has also developed that classic over-the-top, smooth delivery with a high release pro coaches desire. That low release does lead to several of his tosses getting batted down at the line of scrimmage. As soon as he gets to his throwing point, he is ready to unleash the ball. When he releases the ball from over-the-top, his throwing mechanics are much better and he shows more quickness and snap in his release. Because of his solid mechanics, he can launch the ball with accuracy, even when he does not have his feet set. With his compact, quick delivery over the top and a smooth motion getting rid of the ball, defenses have little time to settle under his throws, as he excels at hitting his receivers before they come out of their breaks. When he reverts to ¾-action, his mechanics get a bit inconsistent. He’s not blazingly quick, but on the move, he does a good job of keeping his shoulders square to the line of scrimmage.Arm Strength…Wentz has very good arm strength to make all his throws, even when firing on the move or throwing off his back foot. He is very good at varying the speed on his tosses, showing good zip firing into tight areas. His ball speed is excellent, as it comes off his fingertips easily and receivers don’t have to make too many adjustments, as he leads his targets well. He generates a lot of velocity and ball speed, doing a nice job of throwing the ball across his body while displaying good hip flexibility. He has very good accuracy going long and a lively snap on the short tosses. He demonstrates very good arc on his long outs, as receivers settle over those throws to effortless secure over their outside shoulder. The thing he does best is to generate velocity behind his long throws, as he has a very easy and smooth release. With patient coaching, he will quickly develop confidence needed to release over the top rather than revert to a ¾-release.
Accuracy…Wentz has not only completed 64.1% of his passes at North Dakota State (third-best in school history), he has very good touch and velocity on short and intermediate throws. When playing the vertical game, he leads the receivers well, giving them the space they need to adjust. He is accurate at all levels both from the pocket, shotgun and when on the move (see 2015 Weber State and Northern Iowa; 2014 South Dakota and Missouri State games). He throws a catchable ball with zip or touch, making it easy for his receivers to be successful without breaking off their routes. He will generally throw a tight spiral with good zip on his deep throws and does a nice job of hitting his receivers in stride, as he knows how to adjust the velocity on his short tosses so his target does not have to work back for the ball. He gets good touch and has improved his trajectory on his deep throws, along with showing the ability to stick the ball in tight areas (see 2015 North Dakota and 2014 Incarnate Word games).
Touch…Wentz excels at anticipating the receivers routes and knowing when they will come open. He has very good overall timing and knows when to throw the ball. He will not hesitate to tuck and run with it when his receivers are covered. He knows when to take some heat off his short throws, resulting in better accuracy (see 2015 North Dakota, South Dakota State and Northern Iowa games). His timing is good from the three- and five-step drop backs, but when he holds on to the ball a little too long at times, it will result in more than a handful of sacks (see 2015 Jacksonville State game). He gets good trajectory on his deep throws and displays the ability to anticipate and make adjustments at the line to challenge the soft areas on the field.
Poise…Wentz is cool under pressure and will never be confused for a player with “happy feet” (won’t run at the first sign of pocket pressure). He is never flustered, even when having to hold the ball and throw in the face of a fierce pass rush. He does a nice job of setting his feet so he would not sail his deep passes high. He knows he does not have the foot speed to tuck the ball and run with it, so he stands tall in the pocket and will absorb the hit. He keeps his cool when forced to roll out and will throw the ball away if it takes too long for his targets to get open rather than force the pass into a crowd.
Leadership…Wentz shows that he has good command in the huddle. He is a vocal leader, but not one that will scream just to make a point. He has a strong desire to win and the team seemed to respond well to him, especially when he took over as the starter in 2015. During his time recovering from his wrist fracture, Wentz showed leadership by mentoring his replacement for eight games during the 2015 schedule.
Do not be fooled by Wentz’ linebacker-size frame. If given room to operate, he has no problem taking the ball to the house, scoring twelve times as a ball carrier during his two-year career as a starter
Pocket Movement…Wentz has good speed for a quarterback, but won’t win long distance foot races. He moves well in the pocket and with his power, he can generated first downs on his carries and he has had good success converting third-down snaps with his feet. He will never be confused for being a scrambler in the Robert Griffin III or Michael Vick mold, but he has enough leg drive to break arm tackles to advance the ball and move chains (see 2015 Montana and Jacksonville State games). He has a good feel for pocket pressure and knows when to step up or escape when his protection breaks down, as he does a nice job of buying time with his feet. He maintains his focus downfield, feeling the pressure well. He is more comfortable when dropping back, but has enough arm strength to roll out and throw.Scrambling Ability…Wentz shows good movement, but is really not a great scrambler. He shows the ability to throw on the move. He just can run for big yardage when given a free lane, but is known more for his tackle-breaking ability and power. He has the anticipation skills to know when to step up in the pocket and buy time. With his strong lower frame, he can move the chains, but isn’t a fast or elusive threat to run. He has good body control rolling out in either direction and can throw with very good accuracy on the move.
CAREER NOTES…Wentz started 23-of-43 games at North Dakota State, where he compiled a 20-3 record while leading the Bison to back-to-back national titles…Completed 392-of-612 passes (64.1%) for 5,115 yards, 45 touchdowns and fourteen interceptions…Scored thirteen times on 216 carries that netted 1,028 yards (4.8 ypc), generating 6,143 yards in total offense…Was responsible for 59 touchdowns and also recorded three tackles, in addition to catching one pass for a 16-yard touchdown.
NCAA Career-Record Results…Among active NCAA Football Championship Subdivision players, Wentz ranks fifth with a passing efficiency rating of 153.95…He placed 25 with 59 touchdowns responsible for and ranks third by gaining an average of 7.42 yards per offensive play…His 6,153 yards in total offense is good for 35th within this group.
School Career-Record Results…Wentz ranks third on the school list with 392 completions of 612 passes for 5,115 yards and a pass completion percentage of .641. The only players ranked ahead of him are Brock Jensen (703-of-1,124 passes; 8,598 yards; 2010-130, Steve Walker (534-of-841 tosses for 7,033 yards; 2003-07), Tony Stauss (pass completion percentage of .663; 2003-04) and Arden Beachy (.648; 1990-93)…His passing efficiency rating of 153.95 also placed third on the school record chart behind Arden Beachy (168.6; 1990-93) and Chris Simdorn (159.2; 1987-90)…Ranks third in school annals with 45 touchdowns, surpassed by Brock Jensen (72) and Steve Walker (60)…Has compiled 6,143 yards in total offense, fifth-best by a Bison and his 59 touchdowns responsible for rank eighth.
School Season-Record Results…Wentz set the school records by completing 228-of-358 passes for 3,111 yards in 2014. The previous records were 220 completions by Tony Stauss in 2003, 338 attempts by Brock Jensen in 2012 and Jensen’s 2,793 aerial yards in 2013…His 2014 total of 25 touchdown passes rank behind Jensen’s 34 during the 2013 schedule…His seventeen touchdown throws in 2015 took the fifth spot on that annual chart…Wentz is only the second Bison to ever average 200 yards passing per game in a season (206.4 in 2014), joining Steve Walker (211.5 in 2007; 201.8 in 2006)…Holds the school record with 3,753 yards in total offense in 2014, joining Brock Jensen (3,272 in 2013) to amass over 3,000 yards in total offense during a season at NDSU.
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JARED THOMAS GOFF Quarterback University of California at Berkeley Golden Bears #16 6:04.0-215 Novato, California Marin Catholic High School
With his thin frame and small hands, Goff has seen his detractors emerge since he attended the 2016 NFL scouting Combine, yet, he has his father, Jerry, to serve as a role model for perseverance. Jerry is a former major league baseball catcher who was drafted twice out of high school – first, by the Oakland Athletics and later, by the New York Yankees.
Jerry chose to attend the University of California, where he closed out his career ninth in school history with 29 home runs. He was later drafted in the third round of the 1986 major league baseball draft, 63rd overall, by the Seattle Mariners and he decided to turn professional.
Goff struggled with a low batting average while advancing through Seattle’s minor league system, but also showed good power. The Montreal Expos acquired him from Seattle in 1990, and he made his major league debut with them later that year. He returned to the minors for 1991, but spent parts of the next six years as a backup catcher for the Expos, Pittsburgh Pirates, and Houston Astros.
Goff continued to play professional baseball after his days in the majors were finished. While with the independent Amarillo Dillas, he was a member of the Texas–Louisiana League All-Star team in 1997. He worked as a firefighter in 2001 and was still playing semi-pro baseball for the Novato Knicks, an exhibition team based in Marin County, California.
Son, Jared, has had better success in staying in the lineup, having started all 37 games that he’s appeared in for Cal. He is the only quarterback in school annals to make his college debut as a starter and before he concluded his tenure with the Golden Bears, he boasts owning twenty-six school records.
Among those, Goff established career marks for passing yards (12,220), passing yards per game (329.7 ypg), TD passes (96), completions (977), passing attempts (1,569), total offense (12,086) and total plays (1,739), while the two-time captain was second on the school’s all-time list for passing efficiency (143.95) behind only Aaron Rodgers.
In his final season as a junior in 2015, Goff established Pac-12 Conference single-season records with 4,719 yards passing and 43 touchdown passes while becoming the first Cal quarterback to earn first-team All-Pac-12 honors since Rodgers in 2004. He led an 8-5 Cal team to a winning record and bowl game for the first time since 2011, as well as a post-season win for the first time since 2008.
MAKING HIS MARK AT MARTIN CATHOLIC HIGH
Goff combined to throw for 7,687 yards and 93 touchdowns with 18 interceptions in three varsity seasons at Marin Catholic High School, completing 477-of-767 passes (62.2%) for teams that combined to post a 39-4 overall record and 21-0 Marin County Athletic League mark on their way to one appearance in the state title game, one North Coast Section crown, three NCS playoff appearances and three MCAL championships.
Goff completed 57-of-100 passes (57.0%) for 816 yards with nine touchdowns and two interceptions as a 2010 sophomore for a team that won the MCL title and advanced to the NCS semifinals before finishing 12-1 overall and 7-0 in league play.
As a junior, Goff was successful on 185-of-299 passes (61.9%) for 3,179 yards with 44 touchdowns to only four interceptions in 2011. He earned first-team All-State (Max Preps), first-team All-Metro, MCL Player of the Year and first-team All-MCL honors for a team that reached the NCS finals and won the MCL title while compiling a 13-1 overall record and a 6-1 league mark.
In 2012, Goff earned All-American honors from Super Prep and played in the Semper Fidelis All-American Bowl, completing 4-of-6 passes for 29 yards. He was also selected for the Cal State Game, but did not play due to injury. He also racked up several other honors as a senior, including being named to the Top 150 Dream Team (Prep Star), second-team All-State (Cal-Hi Sports), All-NorCal (Max Preps), Metro Player of the Year (San Francisco Chronicle), North Bay Player of the Year, first-team All-Metro (Bay Area News Group, San Francisco Chronicle), Marin County League Player of the Year and first-team All-MCL.
That season, the senior quarterback led the Metro Area with 3,692 passing yards and 40 touchdown passes as a senior, completing 235-of-368 passes (63.9%) while throwing 12 interceptions. He threw for 262 yards and four touchdowns and ran for another in the Division III state championship game loss to San Diego Madison that completed a 14-2 senior season in which his squad won NCS and MCL titles.
The four-star recruit, according to 247Sports Composite, 247Sports, ESPN, Max Preps, Rivals and Scout, Goff was ranked as high as eighth nationally as a pro style quarterback according to Rivals, ninth by Prep Star and Super Prep, along with placing 15th by 247Sports. The 2012 Elite 11 finalist was also named MVP of the 2012 Oakland Nike Football Training Camp.
No matter how much media attention he’s received during his record-breaking 2015 campaign, Goff always has a moment for a young fan
FOLLOWING THE FAMILY TRADITIONWhile his father, Jerry, was known for his baseball skills at the University of California, he also lettered in football during the 1985 season. His son’s familiarity with the Cal campus was a primary reason that Jared, who was recruited by a number of college programs and received scholarship offers from Boise State, Fresno State and Stanford Cardinal football, chose the Golden Bears.
Goff was a mid-year enrollee at California in January, 2013, and joined the team for spring practice. In August, he was named starting quarterback for the 2013 season over redshirt freshman Zach Kline, becoming the first true freshman quarterback in Cal history to start a season opener.
Goff earned honorable mention All-Pac-12 Conference honors in his first collegiate season as a 2013 freshman when he first set the s school records for passing yards (3,508), passes completed (320) and total offense (3,446) before later surpassing all of the single-season marks. He started all twelve games, and although the team finished 1–11, he showed tremendous promise and finished the season with a .603 pass completion percentage, recording eighteen touchdown passes vs. ten interceptions. On the down side, he turned the ball over six times on ten fumbles, getting sacked 30 times while seeing 62 other passes deflected by the opposition.
As a sophomore, Goff again excelled, statistically. His 3,973 aerial yards and 35 touchdown passes set school records he would eventually break as a junior. He connected on 316-of-519 tosses (62.08%) and reduced his interception totals to seven, recording a 147.5 passing efficiency rating (fifth on the school season-record list).
In the Colorado contest, he threw a career-high seven touchdown passes, completing 24-of-42 passes for 458 yards. His 92-yard touchdown pass to Daniel Lasco against Colorado is the longest in school history. Then, in the Washington State tilt, Goff threw for a school-record 527 yards and five touchdowns in a 60–59 victory. He fumbled the ball nine times, with the defense recovering four, as the QB was sacked 25 times and had 66 passes batted down.
In 2015, Goff led the Bears to an 8-5 season finish, clinching Cal’s first winning campaign since 2011. He surpassed his own school records for passing yards (4,917), touchdown passes (43) and total offense (4,711). His yardage and scoring figures also set new conference marks. He was picked off thirteen times, including recording five pass thefts in the Utah clash, but he only fumbled the ball four times via 26 sacks last season. He was successful on 341-of-529 throws (64.46%) and became just one of two Cal players to ever amass 4,500 yards in total offense.
Goff threw for 453 yards and six touchdowns in a 54–24 victory over Oregon State, earning Pac-12 Offensive Player of the Week honors for the first time. Two weeks later, he set a new Cal game record with 542 passing yards in a 48-46 come-from-behind victory over Arizona State, earning Player of the Week honors for a second time. He would cap his career in the 2015 Armed Forces Bowl, throwing for six touchdowns and 467 yards while leading the Bears to a 55–36 victory.
THE DECISION TO TURN PRO
Two days after the bowl victory, Goff announced that he intended to forego his senior season at Cal and enter the 2016 NFL Draft. The two-time team captain finished his career with 12,220 passing yards and 96 touchdown passes among 26 school records over 37 games played all starts.
“I talked about it with my family and my close friends,” Goff said. “What it came down to really is I felt like I’m ready. I’ve done a lot here and I think I’ve had a great career here. I just felt ready to take the next step. I feel like I’m prepared and as ready as I’ve ever be to take the next step to being an NFL quarterback. That’s really what it came down to. I didn’t listen to too many outside influences. I just tried to focus on what I thought and what the people who matter to me thought. I didn’t think I would be emotional, but when I think all the people who have had an impact on me here, it’s hard to put into words, so I guess that’s why I’ve been a little bit emotional. Just thinking about all my teammates and all the fun we’ve had, it’s hard to say goodbye to that but I’m excited for what’s next.”
“It’s hard with all your players,” California head coach Sonny Dykes said. “Jared is part of a group of guys who have been here since we got here. Jared was part of our first recruiting class. We got to know him early in the process. He graduated early and got here in the spring. He’s been here for as long as I have. It’s hard to lose guys like that, especially everything we’ve gone through as a program and as a team. At the same time, you know things like this are going to happen. It’s inevitable. You’re excited for all your players and what’s next in their lives. Jared will receive more attention, but I’m excited to see what they all do when they’re all done with football. I think Jared has a really bright future. I’m looking forward to having the opportunity to watch him.”
“I am excited for Jared and his family as they move into their next challenge,” Cal offensive coordinator Tony Franklin said. “I include his family because I firmly believe that Jerry and Nancy have played an integral role in molding Jared into one of the best quarterbacks to ever play college football. But more important is how they raised him to being a really good human being with a heart and soul that all parents should strive for their children to possess. It has been a beautiful adventure traveling this journey with Jared and watching him develop from a skinny kid – who was extremely well coached in high school, to a young man with elite leadership skills that blended perfectly with his physical talent.”
Goff impressed during interviews and passing drills, but his slight frame and small hands drew concerns from several teams in the quarterback hunt, most notably – the Cleveland Browns
THE GOFF IMPACT ON THE RECORD BOOKSGoff set 26 school records during his three seasons as the Cal’s starting quarterback from 2013-15 including career marks for passing yards (12,220), touchdown passes (96), total offense (12,086) and completions (977). He was also second on the school’s all-time list for passing efficiency (143.95) behind only Aaron Rodgers. He ranks third all-time in Pac-12 history in passing yards and fourth in passing touchdowns, while he is 26th all-time nationally in passing yards and 27th in passing touchdowns.
Goff also broke a pair of Pac-12 single-season records in his final season as a 2015 junior when he passed for 4,719 yards and 43 touchdowns to lead an 8-5 Cal team to a winning record and bowl game for the first time since 2011. He was also the first Cal quarterback to earn first-team All-Pac-12 honors since Rodgers in 2004, a semifinalist for the Davey O’Brien National Quarterback Award and Cal’s Most Outstanding Player in a Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl victory over Air Force when he set the bowl’s single-game records by passing for 467 yards and six touchdowns in his final collegiate game. The bowl victory was Cal’s first since a 2008 win over Miami in the Emerald Bowl.
Goff led the Pac-12 and ranked third in the nation in 2015 in both passing touchdowns and passing yards in 2015. He is also second in both nationally and in the conference in passing yards per game (363.0) among 10 categories in which he ranks among the top three in the conference and top 20 nationally.
Goff finished his career on an incredible run, combining for 1,462 yards passing and 17 touchdown passes to a single interception for a 206.33 passer efficiency rating during the final three wins (Oregon State, Arizona State, Air Forces) of his career over his last four games. He passed for a school-record 542 yards in the win over Oregon State.
Goff was a semifinalist for the Davey O’Brien National Quarterback Award and was on watch lists for nearly every quarterback and player of the year award in 2015 reaching as high as No. 3 on the USA Today Heisman Hot List and tied for sixth on the ESPN Heisman Watch after a 5-0 start that was the Golden Bears’ best since also winning their first five games in 2007 and one victory away from their best since the 1950 team won its first nine contests, ranking as high as No. 19 in the Amway Coaches Poll and No. 20 in the AP Top 25 in the Week 8 national rankings for its highest national rankings in six seasons.
“That’s what I wanted to accomplish when I came here is to get Cal back to where it was before, in the right direction, and I think we’ve done that. Going from 1-11 to being one win away from a bowl game last year and then winning eight games this year and finishing with a bowl victory is huge. We’re back in the right direction. Hopefully they can continue to do that and keep things on the upswing.”
THE NFL DRAFT AND THE CALIFORNIA GOLDEN BEARS QUARTERBACKS
Since the inception of the draft in 1936, only thirteen California quarterbacks have been drafted. Two of them – Mike Pawlawski (1992 eight round pick by Tampa) and Fred Besena (fifth round by Buffalo in 1977) never suited up in an NFL contest. Pat Barnes (1997 fourth round choice by Kansas City) and Dave Barr (fourth round by Philadelphia in 1995) appeared in just one and two games, respectively.
Five of the thirteen quarterbacks selected did hear their names called during the first round. In 1965, Dallas exercised the fifth pick in the draft to take Craig Morton. From 1965-to-1982, Morton appeared in 207 games, throwing for 27,908 yards, 183 touchdowns and 187 interceptions. It would not be until 1975 before another Cal passer would be taken in the opening round, as Atlanta utilized the top pick in 1975 to snatch Steve Bartkowski. He started 127-of-129 games, piling up 24,124 yards with 156 touchdowns, adding eleven scores on the ground.
In 1981, Rich Campbell was selected by the Green Bay Packers, but soon became known as GM Ron Wolf’s biggest failure. He appeared in seven games through four seasons, throwing for 386 yards, three touchdowns and nine interceptions in relief. 2003 Baltimore 19th overall pick, Kyle Boller started 47 games during his NFL career, collecting 8,931 yards with 48 touchdowns vs. 54 pass thefts.
The most successful of the California first round quarterbacks was Aaron Rodgers, who was hailed as a potential top pick in that draft. He mysteriously lasted until the 24th selection, where Green Bay scooped him up. Through 126 games, he’s completed 2,633-of-4,047 passes for 32,399 yards, 257 touchdowns and just 65 interceptions. He’s also gained 2,175 yards and 21 scores as a runner.
GOFF SCOUTING ANALYSIS
Body Structure…Goff has a lean, angular frame that needs to add more bulk, but he showed no loss in quickness after increasing his weight by twenty pounds from his freshman to sophomore season. His hands are smaller than ideal for a quarterback, but he has adequate body structure with decent arm length and wing span. He lacks great muscle definition, but has trim upper body tone in his chest and arms, small bubble, some thickness in his thighs and calves and average body control, balance and flexibility rolling out of the pocket.
Goff has remained intact through three seasons of punishment. He’s been sacked 81 times, resulting in 23 fumbles at Cal
Athletic Ability…Goff is a mobile passer with average balance and body control to make all the throws when on the move, but he lacks that second gear needed to elude when rushing past the line of scrimmage, compensating with the vision to locate the cutback lanes. He is smooth in his retreat from center to his throwing point, demonstrating the slide-&-adjust agility to step up in the pocket or roll out to avoid pressure. He shows average knee bend, but lacks the ability to weave through traffic. He makes an effort to provide ball security before heading up field, but perhaps due to his small hands and slight frame, he’s coughed up the ball 23 times (opponents recovered 11 of them). With his balance moving in the backfield, he can avoid the rush, but you question his peripheral vision due to the high amount of caused fumbles recorded after being sacked 81 times in three seasons. He is not the type that must be accounted for when he rolls out of the pocket, and as far as running with the ball past the line of scrimmage, he is nothing to be regarded as a valid threat. He has the body flexibility to change direction smoothly, but fails to generate the acceleration to win foot races going long distances. He lacks the ideal bulk you look for in a drop-back passer, but he shows the functional hip snap to change directions and avoid some pocket pressure. He has good balance and adequate body control throwing on the move, demonstrating good hip rotation. He has decent foot quickness in his pass set and shows good quick twitch fibers.Football Sense…Goff is a very intelligent player with no problems executing a complicated game plan. He has good arm strength for the short to intermediate area, and has confidence in the fact that he has the raw arm power to air the ball out consistently, but is still savvy enough to keep the game plan within his athletic talents. There are times when he forces the ball into a crowd (see 2015 Utah and USC games), even though he is known as a student of the game who breaks down opposing film and does a good job of making adjustments on the field. The staff cites his knowledge of the playbook and his hours spent helping devise the game plan, calling him a coach on the field. He also excels in the classroom. From a future pro potential standpoint, scouts are confident that Goff will make all of the required reads and checks to perform in a pass-oriented offense.
Competitiveness…Even though he is soft-spoken off the field, Goff has total command of the huddle. He has all the confidence in the world in his targets and knows how to take what the defense gives him rather than force the issue (even though 81 sacks and 23 fumbles indicate he might have been better served throwing the ball away more. He plays until the whistle and despite being under constant pressure, he shows very good poise in the pocket. Because of his confidence in his protection, it is rare to see him bolt too early, as he will stand tall and take some shots. He is a great improviser who always finds ways to make the play. He won’t force the ball into traffic and can keep defenses honest with his long-range arm strength. Do not be fooled by his calmness on the field and in the huddle, for this kid plays with good fire in his belly.
Goff is quick to set up and get ready to throw, accounting for his 43 touchdown passes that set new school and Pac-12 Conference records in 2015
Set Up…Goff has very good balance and quickness driving back from center to his pass set point. He is effective throwing on the move from either hash, but not a threat to run with the ball past the line of scrimmage. He shows tight mechanics and sets his feet with good agility and base. Even with just average timed speed, his feet appear light when forced to move out of the pocket (just not going to win foot races and has had just one of his 170 rushing attempts gain at least 20 yards). With his body control, agility and hip flexibility, he is quick driving back from center, doing a nice job of setting his feet in either 3-step or 5-step drops. He gets to his throwing point fluidly and has the balance to make all the throws on the run (just not a threat to break the line of scrimmage and generate valid yardage). He is nimble and agile rolling out of the pocket and has the balance to step up and avoid pocket pressure. His speed to his throwing point allows him to surprise the lethargic defender.Reading Defenses…Goff is confident in his ability to make all of his throws. He has the vision to scan the field and make good progression reads. His interception ratio indicates (disregard 2015 Utah and 2013 Northwestern games) that his vision and patience won’t get the team into trouble with costly turnovers. He is not the type who will get even a bit over-confident and fire the ball into tight coverage, as he shows patience waiting for his targets to get in position to make the play and knows how to get the ball to his deep targets over their outside shoulder without the receiver having to adjust (see 2015 Oregon State, Arizona State and Air Force games). While patient waiting for the plays to develop, he is not the type that will hold on to the ball too long and then try to force the action to make the play, as he knows when he needs to throw the ball away. One thing you quickly notice on film is that he is not only innovative, but quite creative when the pocket collapses (just not fast enough to beat defenders on long distance running attempts).
Release…Goff demonstrates the compact delivery and throwing motion, along with the wrist flick, to get the ball out cleanly and quickly. He has a compact motion, holding the ball chest-high to execute a fluid release on deep throws, but you would like to see his release point a bit higher on those attempts (seems to fire the ball at ear-length than going over the top). He gets the ball through the throwing arc well and has a lively arm on short-to-intermediate passes and has learned how to vary his speed at times (as a freshman, he tended to put too much zip on his short throws). He plants well to throw and the pass comes out with a tight spiral, putting a nice spin behind his long tosses, even though he does utilize a lower than desired release point throwing the bombs. Still, even with that delivery, and just average hand size, Goff is very effective at getting the ball out quickly. He carries the pigskin chest-high, but needs to be more alert to backside pressure and ball security, as defenses have had some success batting the ball out from behind (see 2015 Texas and 2014 Colorado, Washington and Oregon games). He shows very good arm whip to get the ball out in time to hit the receivers coming out of their breaks.
Arm Strength…In the short-to-intermediate area, Goff’s tosses show very good zip and velocity. When he attempts to air it out, the ball comes off his fingertips in an instant, showing very good weight distribution and passing mechanics. It is very rare to see his long tosses float or fall off, and almost never will his receivers have to break off their routes. He generates the same velocity, whether throwing off his front or back foot. He has the touch to fire the ball into tight areas underneath and shows good hip rotation to generate a tight spiral. He would be comfortable in a West Coast or ball-controlled offense, but with his arm strength, he can certainly make all the throws, evident by his last two years excelling in a pro-style passing attack. He has no trouble airing the ball out, as he has confidence in his arm power and accuracy to connect consistently on those throws (see 2015 San Diego State, Washington State and Grambling State games). He shows good ease of movement unleashing the ball and puts good velocity on his underneath throws, knowing when to take a bit off those tosses to make it easier for the receiver to secure without having to adjust. He is the type of quarterback that needs to be in a scheme where he can air the ball out, rather than playing “dink-&-dunk” with a short area passing game, as he is highly effective at throwing ropes 40 yards down field with ease. With his live arm, he knows he can generate zip anytime he has to on his long attempts.
Goff has classic throwing mechanics and has greatly improved his footwork, resulting in 78 touchdown passes behind 8,692 aerial yards since the start of the 2014 schedule
Accuracy…Goff is very accurate throwing from the pocket (owns the third-best pass completion percentage – .6227 – and second-best passing efficiency rating – 143.95 – in school history) and has the balance to also make those throws on the move. He is very consistent setting his feet and shows good mechanics delivering the ball on time. He is a nice rhythm passer and not one that relies on hot streaks. He can drill the ball through the seam, but on short routes, he needs to vary the velocity of those throws so receivers only have to execute minimal adjustments. In 2015, he demonstrated good ease of movement on his deep throws, but needs to improve his trajectory (had 43 passes deflected in 2015; 66 in 2014; 62 in 2013). He did a nice job of placing the ball on the receiver’s outside shoulder. He likes to air the ball out more than stay underneath, as he knows how to get the ball to his targets in stride rather than have them wait or come back for it.Touch…Goff is good at making pre-snap judgment calls. He has good timing working in the intermediate area, but when he reverts to a ¾ release on his deep throws, he does lose touch and ball placement in that area (see 2015 Utah and USC games). He has the ability to adjust on the move, thanks to his good field vision. He is equally effective hitting the receivers in stride working underneath and on deep routes, as his short throws show good touch and placement while his long throws will come off his hands with good zip and velocity.
Poise…Goff is a gutsy field general, evident by his performance playing under a lot of pressure the last three years. He’s been dinged up a bit, mostly with just nicks and bruises, but he stands tall in the pocket under pressure and won’t panic and try to run with the ball. He quickly forgets his mistakes and works through his progressions well, showing patience waiting for his targets to get open. Earlier in his career, he felt that he had to carry the team and make every play, getting into bad streaks of firing into a crowd (see 2013 Northwestern game), but he now keeps his cool when “bullets are flying” and knows that when all else fails, he has the arm to step up and avoid the pocket pressure. He stands tough under duress and shows confidence in his ability to execute the play.
Leadership…Goff has complete control of the team, both on the field and in the locker room. He has a good understanding of the game plan and will not hesitate to take a teammate to task for poor play. His quiet air of confidence is contagious, as his teammates feed off his moxie. He is patient waiting for plays to develop and does a very good job with ball security. He is not really vocal on the field or the type that will demonstrate “Brett Favre” bravado, but is more like Tom Brady, taking what defenses give him without putting on a vocal show to tick opponents off. His teammates respect him and he is very assertive once he makes a decision.
Pocket Movement…Goff has the mobility to avoid pocket pressure, but lacks the suddenness to tuck the ball and head up field for big gains. He is effective at finding his secondary targets on the move. He stands tall and takes some punishing hits because of his lack of ideal speed, though. When he does escape past the line of scrimmage, defenses will soon converge and take him down. Most of his sacks are the result of Goff sitting too long at the X’s, as he knows he has only adequate speed (shows good slide quickness in attempts to roll out and throw on the move, though). Even when the pocket breaks down, he knows he can make all of his throws on the move. As a ball carrier, he just lacks the burst, strength and body lean to gain additional yardage after the initial hit and he needs to become more conscious of protecting the ball and shielding it from the defenders.
While he has average speed, 23 fumbles and just one touchdown with one run for over 20 yards on 170 carries makes Goff suspect as a ball carrier
Scrambling Ability…Goff is effective at rolling out to locate his receivers, showing good accuracy throwing on the move. He won’t win foot races past the line of scrimmage, but knows how to square his shoulders and follow his blockers on goal-line running plays. He needs to add more bulk and strength in order to be more of a consistent tackle-breaker. He has good velocity throwing on the move, but is not highly agile trying to escape the defenders when heading up field.CAREER NOTES…Goff started all 37 games at California, becoming the first quarterback in school history to make his debut as a member of the first unit…Gained 12,200 yards with 96 touchdowns and 30 interceptions on 977-of-1,569 pass completions (62.27%), but scored just once on 170 carries for losses totaling 114 yards…Participated in 1,739 plays, generating 12,086 yards in total offense… Has been sacked 81 times for minus 582 yards, as he turned the ball over eleven times via 23 fumbles and saw 171-of-1,569 pass attempts (10.90%) deflected by the opposition.
NCAA Career-Record Results…Among active NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision players, Goff leads the group with 1,569 pass attempts and ranks second with 977 completions (Western Kentucky’s Brandon Doughty has 1,023)…Ranks third with 12,200 aerial yards. In the FBS ranks, that figure places behind Doughty’s 12,855 yards. At all levels, Virgil Adams (Eastern Washington and Oregon) has amassed 13,076 yards…His 96 touchdown passes rank behind Adams’ 136 on the overall chart and Doughty’s 111 sat the FBS level…Ranks fourth with 12,086 yards in total offense.
Pac-12 Conference Career-Record Results…Goff is one of five league performers to amass 12,000 yards in total offense (12,086), joining Connor Halliday of Washington State (13,189; 2011-14), Marcus Mariota, Oregon (13,033; 2012-14), Sean Mannion, Oregon State (12,796; 2011-14) and Matt Barkley, Southern California (12,214: 2009-12)…His 12,200 yards passing placed third in Pac-12 annals behind the 13,600 yards by Sean Mannion, Oregon State (2011-14) and 13,327 yards by Matt Barkley…One of five league quarterbacks to record at least 90 touchdown passes (96), joining Matt Barkley of Southern California (116), Oregon’s Marcus Mariota (105), Southern California’s Matt Leinart (99; 2003-05) and Connor Halliday of Washington State (90; 2011-14).
Pac-12 Conference Season-Record Results…Goff’s 4,711 yards in total offense in 2015 is topped by only Oregon’s Marcus Mariota (5,224 in 2014) in league history…His 4,719 yards passing set the league mark in 2015. The only other Pac-12 passers to generate at least 4,500 yards were Sean Mannion of Oregon State (4,662 in 2013) and Connor Halliday of Washington State (4,597 in 2013)…
His 43 touchdown passes last season surpassed the previous Pac-12 record of 42 by Oregon’s Marcus Mariota in 2014…One of six players in Pac-12 history to throw for 3,000 or more yards in three seasons and one of two to throw for 3,000 or more yards in each of his first three campaigns.
School Career-Record Results…Goff holds the school record with 12,086 yards in total offense, topping the old mark of 8,236 yards by Troy Taylor (1986-89)…His 12,200 yards passing broke Taylor’s old Cal record of 8,126 yards…Also holds the Cal record with 96 touchdown passes. The previous mark was 64 by Kyle Boller (1999-2002)…Shattered the school record with 22 300-yard passing performances…His passing efficiency rating of 143.95 is surpassed by only Aaron Rodgers (150.3; (2003-04) in school annals.
School Season-Record Results…Goff holds the top three spots on the school list with 3,508 yards passing in 2013; 3,973 in 2014 and 4,719 in 2015. The old record was 3,416 yards by Pat Barnes in 1996…His 43 touchdown passes in 2015 set the school record that he previously established with 39 scoring strikes in 2014. Pat Barnes held the old mark with 31 in 1996…His passing efficiency rating of 161.3 in 2015 placed second on the school chart behind Dave Barr (164.5 in 1993).
znModeratorHere’s what Dane Brugler has to say about Goff’s strengths:
STRENGTHS: Good height for the position with the body type to add weight and fill out…outstanding feet, set-up quickness and release, displaying the lower body mechanics to easily come to balance and throw in rhythm – terrific pocket presence to float from pressure with his eyes downfield and buy extra half seconds…climbs the pocket with controlled steps…fundamentals don’t break down when the play does and capable of the correct spontaneous decision…cerebral passing instincts with a strong understanding of anticipation and timing, throwing receivers open…very good self-evaluator and learns from his mistakes…quick trigger and spins a pretty ball with the velocity to drive it and make all the necessary throws…improved eye use to hold defenders, keep the middle of the field open…very good placement to give his receivers a chance to catch-and-go with the touch to deliver tight-windowed throws between levels of the defense…sees the field well pre-snap to get a head start on his progressions…patient to work through his reads, feeling the rush, not looking at the rush…has the stones to stay tough in the pocket even with the hit coming…improved recognition skills pre-snap to identify pressures and find the hot route on blitzes…not a statue, showing enough athleticism to move the pocket and pick up yards as a rusher…trusts his teammates with a steady demeanor regardless of down-and-distance or what the scoreboard says – played behind a spotty offensive line and with receivers who had high drop rates…effective pooch punter, averaging 37.7 yards per punt (12/452), including six inside the opponents’ 20-yard line…two-year team captain (voted by his teammates) – ultra-reserved and laid back personality…athletic bloodlines – father (Jeff) was an All- American baseball catcher at Cal and played seven seasons in MLB (1990-96)…started every game the last three seasons (37 career starts)…rewrote the Cal record book and holds 26 school records, including career passing yards (12,200), touchdown passes (96) and completions (977) – only the second Pac-12 passer to throw 3,000+ yards in each of his first three collegiate seasons.
Here’s what Drew Boylhart has to say about Goff’s strengths.
STRENGTHS
Jared is another quarterback who has improved in every game I have seen him in this year. He has excellent arm talent to make all the throws with touch when needed along with accuracy and velocity that is expected from a top quarterback for the next level. Jared has a very quick release plus quick feet that help him to set up quickly and keep his balance to execute with outstanding accuracy when he throws the ball. He plays with a healthy fear of personal failure that drives him to succeed and improve. He is demanding of the players around him and because of his accuracy and football intelligence, has the respect of his teammates on the field. Jared gets rid of the ball quickly because he is able to read defenses at the college level and look for mismatches in the passing game. He obviously patterns and copies his set ups and drops (from under center) on Peyton Manning’s style and in doing so, has improved dramatically from the first game of this season to the last bowl game. Jared has franchise talent and potential.April 16, 2016 at 9:05 am in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42072
znModerator. (Mods: I won’t post any more of these in this thread. It’s just part of the healing process for me.)
Don’t worry about it. Honest, it’s no time for mods to be hyper-categorical. This move (the trade) was a big deal. Do as you wish in discussing it.
April 16, 2016 at 1:39 am in reply to: Clayton says the move by the Rams was out of desperation #42063
znModeratorBut I just think that giving your draft away in St. Louis for a rookie QB and asking for patience would have been a tougher sell.
Are they asking for patience?
Last year’s team could have won more games with Keenum and/or a rookie qb IMO. That’s just how bad Foles was. So I see them as potentially more viable now.
Secondly, if they don’t care about PR, which I think they don’t, they wouldn’t care if people disapproved. Not if they think they are doing the right thing for the longterm good.
And besides…where’s the alternative? They weren’t going to sign a vet qb and they know Keenum is a stopgap. What option did they have where they wouldn’t be seen as asking for patience? Was there ever really an actual short-time fix out there?
znModeratorRams and Titans both win with blockbuster draft trade
Peter Schrager thinks this is the rare trade that will boost both franchises.
By Peter Schrager
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/tennessee-titans-los-angeles-rams-draft-trade-no-1-pick-041416
Four years ago, the St. Louis Rams traded the second overall pick of the 2012 NFL Draft in exchange for a haul of selections that eventually led to eight players, including current franchise cornerstones Greg Robinson, Michael Brockers, and Alec Ogeltree. Now, in their first year in Los Angeles, with a gaping hole at quarterback, it’s the Rams playing the role of the aggressor, sending a haul of draft picks, including this year’s first and two second-round selections, in addition to next year’s first-round pick, to Tennessee in exchange for the first overall pick in the 2016 NFL Draft.
The NFL Network reported on Wednesday that the Philadelphia Eagles were engaging in “exploratory talks” for the first pick. Turns out, the Rams were having concurring ones all along. The biggest predraft trade since the one in 2012 was actually nearly finalized on Wednesday afternoon, but sources tell FOX Sports that both sides agreed to wait until Thursday morning, out of respect for Kobe Bryant playing in his final NBA game.
Looking at it from my vantage point, I love this trade.
For both teams.
With Los Angeles’ 2016 15th overall and two second-round selections, the Titans now own six of the first 76 selections in the 2016 draft. If picks are currency, the Titans — who already have their franchise quarterback in 2015 second overall pick Marcus Mariota — are rich.
Tennessee, which has been been more or less irrelevant the past few years in the below-average AFC South, can build a team around Mariota. First-year general manager Jon Robinson, a longtime pupil of Bill Belichick’s up in New England, made his mentor proud. Tennessee, which had the luxury of not needing a quarterback, is now the biggest power player in the 2016 NFL Draft.
If Tennessee did, indeed, want Laremy Tunsil, the talented left tackle out of Ole Miss, with the first pick of this year’s draft, it can still likely get at least one of the other top offensive tackles in this year’s crop at 15. If Notre Dame’s Ronnie Stanley and Tunsil are off the board, there’s a good chance the two next-tier tackles, Michigan State’s Jack Conklin and Ohio State’s Taylor Decker, will be on it. And if Tennessee really wants Stanley (assuming Tunsil is gone in the top five), the Titans now have the luxury of picks to wheel and deal a bit and move up to get him.
As for the Rams, the pick will be a quarterback, make no mistake about that. Whether it’s Jared Goff or Carson Wentz is not clear at the moment. Both players are viewed as top prospects and offer different skill sets to Los Angeles.
Goff, a San Francisco native, is perhaps more experienced and better suited for the Hollywood billboards and bright, flashing lights. But Wentz is bigger, faster, and has two FCS championships under his belt. Wentz would be the first FCS or Division 1-AA quarterback selected first overall in the modern era, yes, but Jeff Fisher had a lot of success with another Division 1-AA quarterback he once drafted in Steve McNair. Both are viewed as immediate upgrades over the current stable of quarterbacks the Rams employ.
This is the rare trade where I love it for both sides.
So, what about all that Case Keenum talk this offseason?
Over the last three months, Rams general manager Les Snead has doubled down and tripled down on saying that Keenum was the team’s starting quarterback. He said it at the Combine, said it at the owners’ meetings in Florida and then reiterated it on FOX Sports 1’s “The Herd with Colin Cowherd.” But Snead was playing poker this month, not blackjack. And the Rams are trying to playing chess, not checkers. Case Keenum is a fine quarterback. He’s not opening up the Los Angeles Coliseum.
Whereas other teams might have hesitated on this deal, Los Angeles’ roster is built in such a way where it can make a trade of this nature. The Rams are the youngest team in the league, had an extra second-round pick from the Nick Foles-Sam Bradford trade they made a year ago and needed a quarterback. As an NFL source put it to me Thursday, “Everyone cites that Redskins trade and what the Redskins gave up for Griffin. If Griffin worked out, you’d never hear a peep about it. Nobody ever mentions the haul the Giants gave up for Eli Manning.”
The Rams watched from the sideline as Kirk Cousins was given a $20 million deal and Brock Osweiler raked in $72 million down in Houston. They’ll pay their franchise quarterback roughly $22 million over 4 years. Not a bad deal, if you look at it that way.
In short, the Rams need to nail the pick. Goff or Wentz. Wentz or Goff. They’ve got two weeks to discuss, debate and figure it out. If their quarterback is any good (and I believe both will succeed at the next level), the Rams will have no regrets.
This is the rare trade where I love it for both sides.
The Rams are officially on the clock.[
April 16, 2016 at 12:36 am in reply to: Clayton says the move by the Rams was out of desperation #42056
znModeratorI don’t know why they did it. I do think that moving to L.A. had something to do with it. They will never admit that but I don’t think if they had stayed in St. Louis they would have done it.
So if it was a football decision and not a marketing decision–Foles probably led to that.
I disagree with the first bit, and agree with the second bit. I think they would have done it in 2016 regardless. What comes before it is losing 2 qbs in a row, one to injuries/trade and one to meltdown.
This is by far the safest, easiest route to getting a 12-15 year qb.
Meanwhile I have posted stuff that says many TEAMS…not pundits, teams…rank Goff and Wentz higher than Mariota and Winston.
I seriously doubt either Fisher or Snead care about PR, and I seriously doubt SK is an interfering owner.
znModeratorJared Goff (California, QB) | 2016 NFL Combine Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oagfYhvOB6I
Carson Wentz (North Dakota St., QB) | 2016 NFL Combine Highlights
April 15, 2016 at 11:32 pm in reply to: audio & vidz: Fisher/Snead on the trade & more Fisher, 4/14-16 #42052
znModeratorPROFOOTBALLTALK
2016 NFL DRAFT: JEFF FISHER DISCUSSES L.A. RAMS’ TRADE FOR FIRST PICK
Los Angeles Rams head coach Jeff Fisher discusses the timeline of the blockbuster trade with the Titans for the first overall pick and his reaction to people saying the Rams gave up too much.
link: http://www.nbcsports.com/video/2016-nfl-draft-jeff-fisher-discusses-la-rams-trade-first-pick
April 15, 2016 at 11:28 pm in reply to: Clayton says the move by the Rams was out of desperation #42051
znModeratorI don’t think it’s desperate. I think it was opportunistic.
Here;s how I see it. They already have a young stocked team. The missing piece is qb. There is only one high percentage way to solve a qb issue, and that’s either to already have a high pick, or to spend something to get one.
Meanwhile what they lose in draft picks they gain in cap space. A 1st round qb under the new CBA is a 5 year bargain. (And it’s 5 years because of the 5th year option.)
znModeratorhe basically put up elite running back type numbers in the short shuttle and 3 cone.
That’s interesting.
.
znModeratorbut like you said, he hasn’t had a lot of snaps. and isn’t the fine tuned passer that goff is. but will that matter in an offense that features a lot of todd gurley anyway?
Personally? Yes I think passing matters. I don’t think the Rams intend to be a run-heavy team. I think they intend to be a more balanced team, and in this day and age, balanced doesn’t meant 50/50…it means something more like 52-6 P/48-44 R…that kind of range.
I don’t think that it’s passing isn’t as important. I just think that this year, the best qbs available have some developmental aspects in their make-up, so AT FIRST you can’t throw with them as much as you would like to.
But, since I see this as a 12-15 year starter pick and not as a 2016 season pick, starting out slowly is fine with me. I just simply never believe the guys who say Fisher wouldn’t pass much even if he had a good veteran passer. No, I think he doesn’t pass as much when he has Davis, Keenum, and Hill. Give him a matured Goff or Wentz and my take is they would pass the ball more than Seattle and Carolina currently do.
.
…
April 15, 2016 at 10:43 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42045
znModeratorI mean look at Romo!
But, Romo’s hurt a lot.
…
znModeratorso this guy is pretty raw. lots of potential still in him. hasn’t had nearly the amount of reps that goff has had.
Yes. It’s a pick your poison situation. Wentz/Goff is very raw, though he played in a pro offense that required pre-snap reads and audibles (which essentially puts him ahead of where Bradford was coming out, at least in those specific terms). Goff/Wentz, on the other hand, has much more experience and is the more fine-tuned passer, but he played in a spread and so needs to actually learn a lot of the relevant pro techniques and concepts. He also faced a higher level of competition.
Which is probably why Keenum is going to play at least a few games to start the season, I bet.
BUT I believe everyone who says they are both top candidates. Not Luck, but next tier down. I’ve seen more than once where some writers are saying pro personnel people rate them both up there with—if not a few degrees better than—Winston and Mariota.
znModeratorI think people who are suggesting that this is owner-dictated or a publicity stunt are being lazy or sensationalists. It makes a good sound bite, but this is simply in my opinion the next step in the evolution of the Rams team that has been building for four years. The lost picks will be long forgotten in two years, but the prospect of a young, competent NFL QB far outweighs the deficit created by the lost picks. This was a needed football move, and I believe it will be a turning point in this franchise that has needed this piece of the puzzle for 12 years.
I see that the non-Rams fans are dominating this thread with their pro-Oakland and pro-Seattle anti-football hater posts. But hey they have a right to their beliefs too, I guess.
As it happens, though, being an actual genuine Rams fan and a true-hearted follower of football in general, I agree with you.
I assume they believe they had one significant missing piece and so took advantage of a rare opportunity to add that piece.
It looks opportunistic to me. And if they were thinking we just lack one key piece, I agree with them. I thought all they needed to win last year was a consistently decent starting caliber qb. So I see it as a pure football move.
Not that history guarantees anything, but going back from 2013 (which is far enough back to judge the players now) to 1970, 20 qbs have been taken with the 1st pick. Of those, depending on how you rate Vick, 16 or 17 were hits, which is 80-85%. That’s good odds.
Personally I like the idea that they have a qb for the next decade and a half. I think back to the 2004 draft, where Eli, Rivers, and Roethlisberger all went in the 1st round. They have been in it, with some ups and downs, ever since. That’s enviable. Now I don’t have to envy it.
In terms of building the team, IMO, for the most part, they’ve done that. They have the defense and arguably the OL. They have talent on offense in Gurley and Tavon. They need to upgrade WR, depending on who comes back from injuries, but still, having that #1 pick qb makes all the difference.
In terms of how good Wentz/Goff or Goff/Wentz can be, my vote is, good enough. First, I have argued before that I like it better when a team adds a qb to a more established squad (the Flacco model) rather than try and build around a young qb (the Bradford model). So I like this. I also don’t think either qb needs to be elite. That’s at least partly because I think “elite” really refers to rare animals—Manning in his prime, Brady (even Rodgers and Brees, who push the border on this, don’t fully make it over the line for me). So I think the more realistic approach is to get and rely on a good to very good qb in the Flacco/Eli class.
You can win in the NFL with a play action offense complementing a top defense. That works even better if your qb is a top echelon talent. So imagine this–what if the football gods just let me pick any currently active qb for the 2017 Rams. That’s assuming the OL stabilizes and the defenses stays good. Imagine them, then, with guys like Roethlisberger, Flacco, Eli, Rivers, Palmer, Dalton, Newton, Stafford, Cutler (circa 2015), or Ryan. I would predict they would be a playoff team.
Well I think these 2 guys promise to be that caliber. In that range. So I am fine with what they’re doing.
Imagine a play action/defensive team that is good on 3rd down and in the redzone. And sometime across the next 12-15 years of WhichEver QB’s Rams Career, I would imagine they would add top receivers somehow too.
…
April 15, 2016 at 8:00 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42026
znModeratorWho’s the Top QB in the 2016 NFL Draft? | Move the Sticks | NFL
znModeratorRams’ top-secret QB tour bred blockbuster trade for No. 1 pick
Michael Silver
Jeff Fisher and Les Snead arrived in Berkeley on a cloudy February morning, and as soon as quarterback Jared Goff began his private workout at California Memorial Stadium — as if on cue — the rain came pouring down like the Andy Dufresne escape scene in “Shawshank Redemption.”
By the end of the former Cal star’s sublime throwing session, all had become clear for the two men deciding the immediate fate of the newly rechristened Los Angeles Rams. And it was that clarity of purpose which, two months later, would trigger the blockbuster trade that shook up the 2016 draft and brought some serious gridiron glitz to Tinseltown.
Having flown to Northern California straight from Fargo, North Dakota — where they’d watched the 2016 draft’s other top quarterbacking prospect, ex-North Dakota State passer Carson Wentz, perform impressively in a similar session — Fisher, the Rams’ veteran head coach, and Snead, the team’s fifth-year general manager, were completing the second and final stop of their under-the-radar, Find a Franchise Quarterback Tour.
They weren’t prepared for the inclement weather, but they weren’t complaining, either. After all, one of the few raps against Goff was his perceived inability to throw a wet ball, a stigma that began early in his freshman season in 2013, when he performed so miserably on a rainy afternoon at Oregon that he was pulled from the game in the first quarter.
Even as Fisher vainly attempted to shield the footballs under his light jacket before handing them to Goff, he understood the beauty of the moment: If throwing a slippery ball were still a legitimate weakness, Goff would surely be exposed.
Instead, as if channeling the artistry of dreadlocked Cal alum Adam Duritz, Goff summoned a performance so tremendous, he might as well have crooned, “I am the Rain King!”
Goff, according to one witness, flat out “ripped it” while throwing to former Cal teammates Trevor Davis and Maurice Harris. “The ball never hit the ground,” said another person who attended the session.
“It was a great opportunity to see him throw a wet ball,” Fisher recalled Thursday morning, a couple of hours after the announcement of a pricey trade with the Tennessee Titans that put the Rams on the clock with the No. 1 overall pick. “We were just going through the process, and he made all the throws, and he was outstanding.”
Whether the Rams use the No. 1 overall selection on Goff, as I believe they will, or call Wentz to the podium in Chicago on April 28, Fisher and Snead already have made one thing obvious: After methodically building a talented defense, a process fueled by the bounty they acquired in their own blockbuster pre-draft trade four years ago, and last year bolstering the running game by selecting star halfback Todd Gurley and a slew of offensive linemen, the Rams can no longer get by with mediocrity at the game’s pivotal position.
Speaking of which: With records of 7-8-1, 7-9, 6-10 and 7-9 during their four years in St. Louis, the newly relocated coach and GM understand that they’ll have to step up it up to stay employed in Southern California beyond this season.
So Fisher and Snead, in a strategy they employed as far back as their first season in St. Louis, hit the road and got an up-close-and-personal view of what was out there. And when they loved what they saw in Fargo and Berkeley, they set their sights on the top of the draft.
With the 15th overall selection, Fisher and Snead knew it wouldn’t be easy. Not since 1984 had a team (the Patriots, who came up from 16th to land receiver Irving Fryar) moved up so far to land the first pick. But the Rams had an important chip: an extra second-round pick in 2016, obtained in last year’s trade with the Eagles that sent oft-injured incumbent quarterback Sam Bradford to Philly for Nick Foles. And while Foles’ stint as the Rams’ starting quarterback had been short and inglorious — ultimately, he was supplanted by Case Keenum, who technically still resides atop the L.A. depth chart — that extra second-rounder turned out to be a godsend.
As fate would have it, the Rams’ ownership of that pick — and the Eagles’ lack thereof — may have allowed L.A. to outjockey the Eagles for the Titans’ top pick. The Eagles, according to sources, have a high degree of interest in both quarterbacks, particularly Goff, and were also engaged in talks to trade up in the draft.
Meanwhile the Browns, who hold the No. 2 overall selection, may lose out on the quarterback they covet most — and, in response, might try to trade down to a team interested in acquiring the passer the Rams pass over.
Again, this intriguing scenario is layered with the seeds of past developments: Last March, before trading Bradford to the Eagles, the Rams — according to a high-ranking team source — believed they had a deal in place to send him to Cleveland for a first-round pick, but the Browns backed out the following morning.
Throw in the fact that Fisher closed the deal for the first overall pick with the franchise that employed him as head coach for 17 seasons, and there have been a whole lot of dramatic arcs to this story. And make no mistake: He and Snead are intent on milking the drama for all its worth between now and draft night, with organizational sources sending out conflicting reports of which quarterback the Rams prefer to numerous reporters, a process likely to continue right up until the moment when the Rams are officially on the clock.
Regardless of the noise, Fisher and Snead will get their man — and their immediate futures will likely depend on the young quarterback’s aptitude. For what it’s worth, their bosses (Rams owner Stan Kroenke and COO Kevin Demoff) were absolutely on board with the trade. As one high-ranking Rams official put it in an internal conversation, “We can go with Case Keenum and [second-year backup] Sean Mannion, and if everything breaks right, we can probably be a wild-card team. But we’re not chasing wild cards. We want to go after championships.”
To get to that level, a young man will have to guide them — and something Fisher and Snead saw in Fargo and/or Berkeley two months ago convinced them that there’s at least one quarterback in this draft who can transform their team in a hurry.
“We’re not looking over our shoulders here,” Fisher told me Thursday. “We’re planning for the future, and we’re building this team, and this is the next step. Last year we drafted Todd Gurley, and we drafted [four] offensive linemen. This year, we know what we want, and we’re going after it.”
Rain or shine.
April 15, 2016 at 7:13 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42010
znModeratorI think they take Goff.
I just poured a bunch of Wentz stuff into the thread. He’s my favorite, but I;m not “debating” it, plus I have nothing against Goff—it’s just that some Wentz stuff just now caught my eye. People should add Goff stuff too, as will I whenever I run across it, which ought to be frequently.
April 15, 2016 at 7:06 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42009
znModeratorPro Football Focus
From a 3-15 Mock in which Chris Collinsworth predicted the 4/14 trade
1. Los Angeles Rams (Trade from Tennessee) Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State
While I’m only guessing that the team will be Los Angeles that trades up with Tennessee to obtain the No. 1 pick, I do believe two quarterbacks will go 1-2 in this draft. Every year the quarterbacks slowly rise to the top of the draft board. Are they the two best players in the draft class? Probably not, but as a GM you simply can’t take the chance that one of them becomes the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady while playing for another team. Jared Goff is the better QB today, but teams won’t be able to pass on the physical traits that Carson Wentz brings to the table. Somebody will move ahead of Cleveland and get him.
Wentz is a powerful-looking guy. His size makes an impression, but his ability to run is even more impressive. He appears to have a top-15 NFL arm. Wentz might not be as fast, powerful or athletic as Cam Newton, but at 6-foot-5 and 237 pounds, Cam is not an unfair comparison for him. Wentz has a lot to learn making the huge jump from North Dakota State to the NFL, but his talent is undeniable. His arm strength and athleticism allows him to make the off-balance throws necessary in the NFL. I worry about his release quickness — there may be a little loop in his throwing motion — but Wentz possesses too many positives to not be taken at No. 1
April 15, 2016 at 6:48 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42007
znModeratorCarson Wentz over Jared Goff for Browns at No. 2, experts at NFL Combine say
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/browns_carson_wentz_jared_goff.html
INDIANAPOLIS — The Browns should draft Carson Wentz over Jared Goff at No. 2, a handful of NFL draft experts at the NFL Combine told cleveland.com Saturday.
“I would take Carson Wentz, especially since I know the coaching staff,” said noted draft expert Greg Cosell of NFL Films.
Cosell said the veteran, quarterback-savvy Browns staff would know how to develop a small-school prospect like Wentz, who played at FCS school North Dakota State. What’s more, he’s started only 23 games, going 20-3. The Browns offensive coaches have tutored the likes of Kurt Warner, Carson Palmer, Joe Flacco, Andrew Luck and Andy Dalton.
“They have Hue Jackson, Pep Hamilton, Al Saunders and Kirby Wilson,” said Cosell. “They have coaches who have been in the NFL for a long time and I think that’s absolutely critical.”
Like Warner, an NFL Network analyst, Cosell believes that Wentz won the quarterback workouts Saturday, beating out Cal’s Goff, Memphis’ Paxton Lynch and Michigan State’s Connor Cook, a native of Hinckley, Ohio.
Wentz finished tied for second in the 40 with a 4.77, tied for second in the broad jump and finished third in the three-cone drill. He also displayed a strong arm, good footwork, nice touch on the shorter routes and a quick release.
“Hands down, Wentz (6-5 1/4 237) was the best quarterback in these workouts,” Cosell said. “Hands down he shone above everyone else.”
But Cosell relies on his extensive film study in grading the passers.
“Since I’ve watched both on tape, I’d say Wentz has high level traits, the kind of traits that make you think if he were to become what he could be that he’d be a top five kind of quarterback in the league,” Cosell said.
Kurt Warner says Carson Wentz ‘looked the best of all the quarterbacks’
Kurt Warner says Carson Wentz ‘looked the best of all the quarterbacks’
Wentz, whom the Browns are considering with their first-round pick, displayed the same things in drills that he did at the Senior Bowl and on tape: a strong arm, great footwork, a quick release and exceptional size.Like NFL Network’s Mike Mayock, Cosell believes that Goff (6-4, 215) might be more ready now, but that Wentz has more upside potential.
“Goff is a really refined player for a 21-year-old quarterback, really good pocket mechanics, really good feel for the pocket, does something that not even some pro quarterbacks do, which is he moves his feet with his eyes, which is a really refined trait for a young quarterback,” he said. “So Goff to me is more refined, but Wentz has the higher-level traits.
He said the fact Wentz played in a pro-style offense in college while the other played in a spread doesn’t push him over the top.
“I’m not a huge believer in that because I think you can teach guys,” he said. “It’s like receivers when you say they only ran three routes. I think if you coach guys well, if they have change of direction and good movement skills you can teach guys how to run the route tree. I think with a quarterback you can teach your offense.”
He added, “both guys from what I can gather have come across very well and are generally smart kids.”
One high level NFL talent evaluator who doesn’t need a quarterback but studied the current class said he’d go with Wentz because “he’s stronger, a good athlete, a good thrower, played in a pro offense and won national championships.”
One NFL offensive coach said, “all things being equal, go with the size.”
Still, another NFL offensive assistant said Goff has done it for longer and Wentz is coming out of nowhere. He’s leery. “No one heard of him until the Senior Bowl,” he said.
Before the workouts, NFL Network draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah said Wentz was his top QB. The session confirmed it.
“Everybody focuses on the level of competition, but to me I believe he’s the top quarterback in this draft class,” he said. “A lot of it is because of what he’s asked to do. He’s under center, he has a lot of control in that offense.”
Although Warner crowned Wentz winner of the day, he also likes Goff.
“Jared Goff, I don’t know if you see as much of what makes him a pro ready quarterback out here in combine drills,” he said. “It’s his speed inside the pocket, it’s movement, quick release, those two guys I thought looked very solid.
“That’s one thing that really impressed me with Jared Goff when I watched him on film — tremendous pocket awareness but the ability to move his hips and get the ball out quickly in that small, little box is impressive.”
As for Mayock, he seems to be favoring Goff for the Browns because he’s ready to step in now, and Wentz for the Cowboys at No. 4 where he can sit awhile behind Tony Romo.
“Now if (Wentz) had to go in and play this year, do I think he could take his lumps and do that? Yeah,” he said. “But I think the healthiest situation for that kid in a franchise is to give him a year behind an established starter, even in Cleveland.
“If Cleveland took him. Go to Cleveland, spend a year learning the system and learning what you’re doing and a year from now you’re the guy. I think that’s healthy.”
Why is Goff more ready now?
“The advantage Wentz has is he’s been under center,” he said. “He’s done a lot in the protections. You could see his footwork, it was good. The difference is he’s played 23 games and he’s done it at a lower level. I didn’t see the same pocket awareness.
“When I watch Goff I see a guy sliding, moving around in the pocket, going from one side of the field to the other making every throw. I don’t think Wentz is at that point yet as far as being quickly able to do that and I think he needs a lot more reps.”
Question is, where will he get them?
April 15, 2016 at 6:05 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #42004
znModeratorJared Goff vs. Carson Wentz: Who should Rams take with No. 1 draft pick?
On Thursday, the Los Angeles Rams sent shockwaves through the NFL by jumping from No. 15 in this month’s draft all the way up to No. 1. Of course, this move didn’t come without a price: The Rams sent the Titans two first-round picks, two second-rounders and two third-rounders over the next two drafts (in exchange for No. 1, No. 113 and No. 177 in this month’s event). But the trade puts the Rams in position to (presumably) draft a quarterback to build around as the franchise returns to L.A.
It appears that two signal callers have separated themselves from the pack: Cal’s Jared Goff and North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz. Saturday night at 8 p.m. ET, NFL Network will break down the biggest question heading into the 2016 draft with a special program, “Path to the Draft: Goff or Wentz?” But in the meantime, what do you think? Which of these two QBs should the Rams select at No. 1 overall?
Charley Casserly
Writer | NFL.comCarson Wentz has more long-term promise, but Jared Goff is the guy for L.A. in 2016
I like Carson Wentz over Jared Goff long term, but Goff is a better fit right now. And Los Angeles could indeed be a QB away from being a playoff team — the Rams have a good defense and a Pro Bowl RB in Todd Gurley. Goff has very good pocket presence — he sees things quickly and has a quick release. But he does not have a top arm.To be frank, though, I don’t think either one of these QBs is an elite prospect.
Daniel Jeremiah
Writer | NFL.comWentz is the superior prospect — in fact, he’s better than Blake Bortles was coming out of UCF
They should take Carson Wentz. He’s bigger, more athletic, has a stronger arm and gained experience in an NFL system while at North Dakota State. He’s proven to play his best in big moments, and he’s done nothing but win his entire athletic career.Wentz’s toughness, competitiveness and football intelligence are off the charts. He’s a better player than Blake Bortles was coming out of Central Florida.
Gil Brandt
Writer | NFL.comI have Wentz rated slightly higher, but I think Goff is a better fit in Los Angeles
In my rankings — which will be released on NFL.com on Monday — I have Carson Wentz one spot ahead of Jared Goff. But, if I were the Rams, I would go with Goff because of the fact the he was raised in California. He would be much more familiar with the difficulty of movement in Los Angeles, mainly traffic and the pace of living. Goff would have an easier time adapting to the high-intensity way of life in the L.A. area. Moving to California would be a culture shock for anybody who has lived their entire life in North Dakota.Lance Zierlein
Writer | NFL.comReturn to L.A. gives Rams more time to develop a QB — I’d bet on Wentz’s upside
If this were still the St. Louis Rams, I would probably say Jared Goff because they would need to win more immediately. However, in Los Angeles, the Rams should have a honeymoon period that allows them to bring Carson Wentz along with more patience.At the end of the day, I believe that Wentz has the potential to be a “face of the franchise” quarterback more than Goff.
Bucky Brooks
Writer | NFL.comGoff’s experience will allow him to be the Rams’ starter on Day 1
The Rams should take Jared Goff with the top pick. The Cal quarterback is the more polished and experienced player at the position. Goff enters the NFL with 1,500-plus pass attempts and 37 career college starts (compared to Wentz’s 612 attempts and 23 college starts), which makes him better prepared to step into the lineup as a Day 1 starter.From a physical standpoint, Goff doesn’t have the big arm or prototypical dimensions of Wentz, but he displays better footwork and poise in the pocket. He plays with his eyes and feet connected, while exhibiting good poise under duress. Goff’s ability to thrive within chaos sets him apart from others in the class and gives him the nod in this debate.
Considering Goff’s outstanding touch, timing and anticipation as a passer, the Rams finally have a chance to field an explosive offense with the potential to attack on the ground or through the air.
Chase Goodbread
Writer | NFL.comRams made a bold move with win-now intentions, so Goff has to be the pick
You don’t blow a hole in two drafts — as the L.A. Rams just did in moving up to No. 1 — to acquire a quarterback who might need a year or two to develop. That’s why the choice needs to be Jared Goff of Cal.While Carson Wentz’s offense at North Dakota State might have been more NFL-like, it’s a mistake to lump Cal’s “Bear Raid” offense in with other college spread offenses that translate poorly to the pros. Goff, with an experience edge over Wentz — and having played against a much higher level of competition in the Pac-12 — will be more ready to win games right off the bat.
Elliot Harrison
Writer | NFL.comWentz would seem to be a better fit in the Rams’ Todd Gurley-led offense
I’m thinking Carson Wentz. Unless the Rams view Jared Goff as a clearly superior quarterback to Wentz, I would go with the guy who has been under center more in his career if I were part of the Rams’ brass. Not because Goff can’t assimilate himself to pro sets outside of the spread and shotgun, but because the Rams’ best player is tailback Todd Gurley, who often operates out of a single-back set. The key to the Rams making big plays downfield this season is having success with play action to Gurley, and that is something — at least under center — that Wentz is more equipped to carry out at this stage.Charles Davis
Writer | NFL.comWentz will fit like a glove into into Jeff Fisher’s offense
I have had Jared Goff rated slightly higher than Carson Wentz throughout the run up to the draft. But when it comes to who should the Rams take with the No. 1 overall pick, I believe they should select Carson Wentz. To me, he would fit nicely with what Los Angeles wants to do on offense given head coach Jeff Fisher’s background — run the ball, hit big plays off of play action, and pair that philosophy with a stout defense already in place. Wentz’s background at North Dakota State saw him handling line calls, adjustments and audibles in the run and pass game, and operating a lot of offense from under center, in the pistol and shot gun. His ability to read fronts and control the run game would be valuable.As an added bonus, his athleticism and comfort running the ball will really come in handy. The possibility of his escaping out the backdoor will help tamp down pressure packages focused solely on stopping Pro Bowl RB Todd Gurley, and Wentz’s sturdy 6-foot-5, 237-pound frame allows him a great chance to hold up well as a runner.
Finally, with the heavy focus and commitment to running the football, the plan would be for Wentz to be able to throw the ball against easier coverages and in more favorable situations. That would allow him to break into and acclimate to the league quicker, as well as develop without being hit so often early in his career when trying to pass.
This formula worked well for Ben Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson as rookies. I think that Carson Wentz would find it agreeable, too
znModeratorWhat really bug me about the Mannion situation is the report I read saying he rarely practiced and usually ran the scout team. We know he got precious little playing time. Now Fish Snead are giving up on him?
Yeah he had a redshirt year, but when he was he going to get decent reps when they were busy bringing Foles up to speed on the offense last year?
They have already said that this year Mannion is competing for the #2 spot. Of course they said that before trading up for the 1. But either way it looks like they intended to give him more time this time.
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April 15, 2016 at 4:37 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #41998
znModeratorBeen told multiple times that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff graded out higher for a number of teams than Mariota and Winston did last year.
— Rand Getlin (@Rand_Getlin) April 15, 2016
April 15, 2016 at 2:02 pm in reply to: Goff or Wentz? Wentz or Goff? Der Wentz oder Goff entscheidung #41993
znModeratorhttp://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/carson-wentz?id=2555259
Recent Comps
So they have Wentz graded at 6.53 and Goff at 6.51–flip a coin as far as the “grade”. By way of comparison Winston was 6.7, Mariotta was 6.27, Bortles 6.2. They changed the way they grade players and what the scores mean after 2013 so these are all the “apples to apples” comparisons.
You want to say you don’t like trading lots of picks for a few, fine. But please don’t tell us that “there is no one as good as Winston or Mariotta in this draft–the scouting grades puts both Wentz and Goff a good deal ahead of Mariotta. If you want to look at small school comparisons for Wentz, Bortles at 6.2 and Garoppolo at 5.8 are the comps.
znModeratorBig trade doesn’t necessarily buy Jeff Fisher, Les Snead more time with Rams
Nick Wagoner
In making the blockbuster move all the way to the NFL draft’s top pick from their previous perch at No. 15 overall, Los Angeles Rams coach Jeff Fisher and general manager Les Snead already have a pretty good idea of what they’re getting in exchange.
For now, the answer is a quarterback — either Cal’s Jared Goff or North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz — with the first overall choice as well as fourth and sixth-round picks in this year’s draft. Their hope is that it will be a franchise quarterback capable of getting the Rams over the hump of mediocrity and into the postseason.
Conventional wisdom also suggests they may have bought themselves something else: time. That might not necessarily be the case, however.
Both Fisher and Snead are entering the last year of the original contracts they signed with the team in 2012. Although the Rams have had conversations with both about contract extensions, those haven’t been finalized yet. Even if they are, it’s clear from their bold trade that they know time is running low.
Whether the Rams ultimately draft Goff or Wentz, neither is considered the type of game changing quarterback capable of lighting it up from Day 1. It used to be standard operating procedure that such a trade would allow Fisher and Snead to see their investment in the pick through.
But recent history says that might not be the case. Tampa Bay drafted Jameis Winston with the first overall pick a year ago and fired Lovie Smith after the Bucs went 6-10, which was still a substantial improvement from the 2-14 record the previous year. Tennessee took quarterback Marcus Mariota with the second pick last year and fired coach Ken Whisenhunt midway through the season.
“If you’re asking me do I think drafting a quarterback one is going to, in their minds, buy them time, I don’t think that’s the case at all,” ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said. “First of all, look at what happened in Tampa and Tennessee. Second of all, this franchise is moving to L.A., the focus is going to be on them, the excitement is going to be there. L.A. wants a winner. So I think they realize that they’ve got to win and my guess is that they’ve come to the realization that they’ve had so many pieces in place they just haven’t had a quarterback.”
So while it’s hard to imagine the Rams would allow their current decision makers to make such a big move without having the chance to reap the potential rewards, the status quo has changed.
Which means it’s up to Fisher and Snead to get off on the right foot by making sure they draft the right quarterback.
“One thing about this is you better be right,” longtime NFL coach Rick Venturi said Thursday. “You basically have ransomed the future. So I don’t think you can look in terms of you are going to build now, you’re going to build with players because you have given all those draft picks away. So what you have to say is our team is pretty doggone good and a top flight quarterback, though he may not win as a rookie, the top flight quarterback is all we really need to get going. I think that’s what you’re saying.”
That does indeed seem to be what the Rams are saying with Thursday’s trade but it’s also an admission that they were wrong not to address quarterback sooner. While most teams identify the quarterback and then build around him, Fisher and Snead have gone the other direction. The results haven’t been good.
Fisher and Snead came to the Rams in 2012 facing the difficult task of overhauling a team coming off a five-year stretch in which the Rams were 15-65, the worst such run in NFL history. They operated under the belief that Sam Bradford was the team’s present and future at quarterback. He turned out to be neither, largely because of injuries, which were out of the Rams’ control.
In four seasons with Fisher and Snead at the helm, the Rams have gone 27-36-1 with no playoff appearances. For most franchises, that lack of success would lead to a change at one or both positions. But the Rams aren’t like most franchises.
So the seat will likely be warm entering the 2016 season, especially if things go awry and the Rams bottom out. Although a team with a rookie quarterback trying to find his way finishing with seven wins comes with a more optimistic outlook than one starting Case Keenum, such a finish would still represent a lack of improvement.
Of course, stranger things have happened than a rookie quarterback coming in and playing well right away. Whoever the Rams draft will have the benefit of a salty defense and a dynamic running back, if not an unproven offensive line and pass-catchers.
But reality says that Goff and Wentz will need some time to develop. Whether the men drafting Goff and Wentz are there to see the finished product depends on how fast that development progresses.
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