jrry32

The choice isn’t A) get an immediate impact player that turns into a stud or B) get a player that develops into a stud a couple years down the road. It’s more of a percentage breakdown. I actually just ran the numbers out of curiosity, for the players drafted in the first round from 2000 to 2004(did this so the final class would have a decade in the league so there was no question about what a guy developed into) the percentage breakdown is:

15% are immediate impact players that develop into studs

15% are not immediate impact players that develop into studs

15% are immediate impact players that develop into starters (but not studs)

15% are not immediate impact players that develop into starters(but not studs)

40% are busts

So I’m not going to complain if it takes a guy 2-3 years to develop into a stud or even a quality starter because he could have very well been a bust. And that’s ONLY looking at FIRST ROUND PICKS over that 5 year period.

Schemes, playbooks, responsibilities, and terminology differ greatly from college football to pro football. It’s not something you just know from playing football; it’s something you have to learn. It’s not about learning HOW to block. It’s about knowing what to do on each given play based on what the defense is showing both pre and post-snap.

I can easily believe that Robinson didn’t/doesn’t understand what’s going on enough to be more productive than Joseph because I’ve seen other young players forced onto the field in similar circumstances and make tons of mental errors due to that…errors that really hurt their team and hindered that player’s development.

People underestimate the mental side of playing on the line. If Robinson can’t be trusted to decipher and pick-up blitzes/stunts, he’s more of a liability than Joseph.

Joseph is good for a few irritatingly bad plays each game but doesn’t screw up on every play. If Robinson goes out there and can’t pick the blitz up, he’s going to get Davis pummeled. Because teams will recognize that and blitz the hell out of him. Worst of all, you risk destroying Robinson’s confidence and undoing the technical work you’ve done to this point. The Rams will get him on the field when he’s ready. If we know that Joseph is bad, you better bet the Rams do.

Why can other rookies start and be successful? Players mature and learn at their own pace…just like people. Some learn quicker than others. Some are more ready because of practical experience than others. Keep in mind that Matthews was a Senior, Robinson was a Sophomore. Matthews started four years in college. Robinson started two years in college. Matthews is the son of a HOF NFL OL and a current NFL OL Coach.

Hopefully, Robinson can be the difference maker on the OL when he plays.

Well, but Snisher could have chosen
a stud who started immediately – Matthews.
We know Matthews wont be a ‘bust’.

So did Snisher make the right pick?

Robinson is gonna have to be
better than Matthews
for it to have been the right pick.

w
v

Yeah, i saw that too.

Bucky is gone and
Ungulate.

w
v

Good stuff as usual from GC.
He makes me smile sometimes
when he’s asked simplistic questions.

I disagree with GC about AustinD, btw.
I think his ceiling is higher than
“midrange quality starter”

w
v

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by wv.

Has anyone died or gone to prison
from that 99 team?

Happy question, i know.

w
v

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-12/sports/sp-5921_1_cleveland-gary
LA Times
When Gary Fumbles, Everyone Lets Loose
December 12, 1990
|MIKE PENNER

Thought for the day:

“All great backs fumble.”

–Wendell Tyler, Former Ram Fumbler And some others . . .

OK. Let’s get the Cleveland Gary jokes out of the way.

1. Cleveland Gary and Keith Jackson would be great at “Password.”

2. Cleveland Gary played baseball this summer in the Montreal Expos’ farm system. The scouts said he was good hit, no field.

3. 7-Eleven is Cleveland Gary’s fumbles-lost-to-total-fumbles ratio–not his future place of employment.

4. Cleveland Gary can break tackles but can’t hold onto the football. Gaston Green can hold onto the football but can’t break tackles. The Rams have the running back they need; they just don’t have the genetic engineering.

There. Good to get that out of our system. If Gary can get the fumbles out of his, everybody’s happy.

At 5-8, the Rams seem a lock for the franchise’s first losing season since 1972, discounting strike years. In 1972, the Rams finished 6-7-1 during Tommy Prothro’s last season as head coach. Since then, the Rams’ only other sub-.500 finishes have been the strike years of 1982 (2-7) and 1987 (6-9).

Ram MVP, if there is such a beast, ought to be Buford McGee. With fumbles, interceptions and defenses exploding all around him, McGee has been a lonely bastion of reliability. He leads the team with a 5.7-yards-per-carry average, is tied for second with Flipper Anderson with 41 receptions and ranks third in scoring with five touchdowns. He also pass-blocks by the textbook, covers on special teams and even throws the occasional touchdown pass–doing all the little things so many others have ignored in Anaheim.

One more difference between the ’89 Rams and the ’90 Rams: Last season, playoffs included, the Rams were 6-3 in games decided by a touchdown or less. This season, that record is 1-4.

And another: Last season, Jim Everett takes that extra play against New Orleans and finds Pete Holohan in the end zone for the winning touchdown.

And another: Last season, Everett takes the Rams right down and scores right after the Rams win the coin flip to begin overtime with Cincinnati.

Right now, those two games are the difference between the playoffs and playing out the string in 1990.
=======================

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/cleveland-gary/recent/4
Gary: Fumbles Relapse Will Last Only One Game
November 10, 1992|TIM KAWAKAMI | TIMES STAFF WRITER

This time, Cleveland Gary promised himself and anybody else who would listen Monday, he will not allow his breakthrough season to be ruined by a spree of dropped footballs.

On Sunday, in a reminder of his 12-fumble season two years ago, the Rams’ tailback lost two fumbles to the Phoenix Cardinals, setting up their two winning touchdown drives.

After the game, Gary bolted out of the locker room before anybody could stop him for a public explanation.

But Monday, with his coach and his teammates voicing their support, Gary faced the media, apologized for his postgame duck and said he was too strong to let these most recent fumbles destroy what had been shaping into a Pro Bowl season.

“I want to be a perfectionist when it comes to not fumbling,” Gary said Monday. “Yesterday was a relapse, and I think in order to succeed at anything, I can’t do from a mental standpoint what I did before. . . . I start(ed) thinking about it, and that won’t happen.

“I had one (bad) day. I’m proud of myself, and I’ve learned how to reward myself. I’ve carried the ball a hundred-something times without dropping the football, so what I have to do is put that one day behind me.”

Coach Chuck Knox downplayed Gary’s fumbles on Monday and said he is the team’s tailback, period. Knox said he thought the fumbles were a result of Gary’s trying to make second- and third-effort yards, the kind of running the coach has always admired.

“All I’m going on is what I’ve seen since we’ve been here, and he’s sitting up there (as) about the third-leading rusher in the NFC,” Knox said. “He’s done a good job for us.”

Before Sunday, Gary had fumbled twice–losing one–in 150 carries, and he had come a long way in erasing the memory of his two lost seasons. Last year, Gary fumbled on his second carry of the season, also against the Cardinals, and never got back into former coach John Robinson’s main running rotation.

This year Gary has gained 718 yards in 167 carries and scored eight touchdowns.

Gary’s fumbles Sunday were varied. The first occurred early in the third quarter, when Gary said he was trying to make a big play happen after being held to seven yards on seven attempts during the first half.

He crashed into the line, was slowed, then spun through the pile for extra yardage. But he swung his arm away from his body and exposed the ball for linebacker Eric Hill, who knocked it loose.

“I could’ve very well taken a four- or five-yard gain,” Gary said. “But instead, I spun off, and I put my body in a position maybe I shouldn’t have put it in. I spun off and tried to make something happen.”

His second fumble, which tumbled out of bounds, was similar.

The third, and most costly, occurred when Ken Harvey burst past a block and met Gary moments after he had taken the handoff. “What I have to do (is) go back to the basic fundamentals, get the ball over the pressure points and keep it in,” Gary said. “And what I can’t do, I can’t do.”
===========================

Gary Recovers After Fumbles : Rams: Running back says he has put game behind him and apologizes for behavior.
November 10, 1992|TIM KAWAKAMI | TIMES STAFF WRITER

ANAHEIM — This time, Cleveland Gary promised himself and anybody who listened Monday that he will not allow his breakthrough season to be ruined by a spree of dropped footballs.

Sunday, in a dark reminder of his 12-fumble season two years ago, the Rams’ tailback lost two crucial fumbles to the Cardinals, one of which set up Phoenix’s winning touchdown drive.

After the game, Gary bolted out of the locker room before anybody could stop him for an explanation.

But Monday, with his coach and teammates still voicing their support for him, Gary faced the media, apologized for his postgame duck-and-run, and said he was too strong to let these most-recent fumbles destroy what had been shaping up to be a Pro Bowl-caliber season.

“I want to be a perfectionist when it comes to not fumbling,” Gary said Monday. “Yesterday was a relapse, and I think in order to succeed at anything, I can’t do from a mental standpoint what I did before . . . I start thinking about it, and that won’t happen.

“I had one (bad) day. I’m proud of myself, and I’ve learned how to reward myself. I’ve carried the ball a hundred-something times without dropping the football, so what I have to do is put that one day behind me.”

Coach Chuck Knox downplayed Gary’s fumbles Monday and said Gary is the team’s tailback, period. Knox said he thought the fumbles came as a result of Gary exposing himself trying to make second- and third-effort yards, the kind of hard running Knox has always admired.

“All I’m going on is what I’ve seen since we’ve been here, and he’s sitting up there about the third-leading rusher in the NFC,” Knox said. “He’s done a good job for us.

“I don’t want him to go up in there and just lay down on the ball. You’ve got to go up, take it up in there . . . and he has been hanging onto it. (But) these things happen.

“I still think you’ve got to run up in there as hard as you can run, and fight, get everything you can get–but take the ball with you.”

Before Sunday, Gary had fumbled twice–losing one–in 150 carries. Last year, Gary fumbled on his second carry of the season–also against the Cardinals–and never got back into Coach John Robinson’s main running rotation.

This season, though, with the solid backing of Knox, Gary has gained 718 yards in 167 carries and scored eight touchdowns.

“Yesterday was just an awful experience, but it was an experience that I learned from,” Gary said. “This year, I’ve had so much success pretty much when I’ve wanted . . .

“But yesterday was different.”

On Sunday, Gary’s fumbles were a variety pack of bobbles. The first one came early in the third quarter, when Gary said he was trying to make a big play happen after being held to seven yards in seven attempts in the first half.

Gary crashed into the line, was slowed, then spun through the pile for extra yardage. But he swung his arm away from his body and exposed the ball to linebacker Eric Hill, who knocked it loose.

“I could’ve very well taken a four or five-yard gain,” Gary said. “But instead, I spun off, and I put my body in a position maybe I shouldn’t have put it in. I spun off and tried to make something happen.

“I was pressing it too hard. I was more focused on making things happen than the basic fundamentals. It just left me.”

That was the sort of fumble that plagued Gary in 1990–exposing the ball when he was trying to make late moves. His second fumble, which tumbled out of bounds, was similar.

The third, and most costly, came when Ken Harvey burst past a block and met Gary moments after Gary took the handoff.

“What I have to do (is) go back to the basic fundamentals, get the ball over the pressure points and keep it in,” Gary said. “And what I can’t do, I can’t do.

“I have to keep it there rather than letting it slip sometimes. It got a little comfortable.”

Despite his quick yank last season, Gary said he never feared that Knox was going to pull him for good Sunday, or that his teammates were losing confidence in him.

“That thought never entered my mind,” Gary said. “Coach Knox has judged Cleveland based on what he’s done since he’s been here. Coach Knox isn’t reliving somebody else’s past.

“He looks at a man for his character, the way he is when he sees him.

“I’m grateful that Coach Knox and my teammates haven’t judged me on the past, and I think that’s why I’ve been successful. That has helped my confidence factor tremendously. It gives me motivation to put this garbage behind me.”

And Gary, who said he left the locker room quickly because he was still stunned by his fumbles, made a point of trying to put his Sunday media no-show behind him.

“The first thing I would like to do is apologize for my departing,” Gary said. “It was a mistake. I am human, and I do make mistakes. And one of the mistakes I made (Sunday) was leaving and not facing the media.

“I had a lot on my mind at the time, and I handled it the best way I felt I knew how. And obviously it wasn’t the way I should’ve handled it. I should’ve stayed there.
===========================

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by wv.

Well…another player talking about AustinD’s ‘fire’
and emotion.

Fisher’s first comment: Bennie is good
without the ball.

w
v

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by wv.

rfl wrote:

I keep trying to do is to establish a clear eyed look at RIGHT NOW. What is Fisher and his coaching staff doing RIGHT NOW with THIS Ram team?

And he is, IMO, quite manifestly FAILING. This pre-season and 1st 4 games have constituted FAILURE to produce competitive football. That’s just fact. You do not win more than a handful of games in a year played like this.

Is the year over? No.

I always love your posts, my old comrad.

But our brains just work differently or somethin. My own
“clear-eyed look at right now” tells me that i cant
just reduce a complex multilayered mystery down
to one word: Failure.

It just seems more confusing to me. I dont
have all the information I’d need to say: Failure.
AustinD looks VERY interesting to me. The Weapons look
good. The only problem i see on O is a couple of parts
of the Oline. Thats fixable and Greg Robinson may
be one of those fixes.

I dont see this “undisciplined” team you do.
And i dont see a ‘lazy’ team.
I dont think it was a mistake to come out passing in that game.

I suspect it was a case of some young players not being
ready for a good team in a hostile environment.

But i dunno. You see “Failure” and i see
a team on the verge of finding itself. Very close.

Time will tell. Who knows.

w
v

There’s a Wagoner audio where he’s asked if he
likes the nickname “Sackcity” and he sez
“Yeah its a good nickname because its singular
and not plural — and the rams only have
one sack”

w
v

SunTzu_vs_Camus wrote:

Thanks for posting the quote, ZN.
I feel the entire team is on the up…and it’s just a little more time to get there.
These young Rams made mistakes…but they fought hard and nearly made history on the comeback.

I take great heart and inspiration by those young kids playin their heart out!

I havent watched the second half yet on replay
but i watched the end of the first half, and i gotta
say the run defense was dispiriting on that last
Eagle drive. The Rams had scored to get some momentum
and make it 13-7, and the the Eagles McCoy just gashed them
and gashed them. And the Eagles methodically gutted
them all the way down the field to make it 20-7.

Ugly. Very ugly defense on that key drive.

w
v

Interesting. They gave up
on RayRay.

w
v

I think we can say this about the defense:

1 They miss the very-solid-play of a healthy Chris Long

2 The younger players on the defense are making critical mistakes.
I think its not unreasonable to think they might improve as they
get more experience. But right now, they can be counted on
to make a few awful mistakes each game.

3 Greg Williams — I think its fair to question whether
GW has handled these players in the best way possible.
Maybe he has put too much on them, maybe they have
too much to think about. Maybe the young players will
start to ‘get it’ later in the year.
Or maybe the league has
just figured out how to counter GW’s approach.
Time will tell.

4 One very interesting stat is the one that showed the Rams
leading the NFL in stopping runs behind the Line. The rams
had five more of those in the Philly game compared to only
one by the Eagles D. So, something about GW’s D
is going right, too.

5 I think Aaron Donald is doing great for a rookie DT.
Weve all read it takes DT’s three years to really
blossom — we’ll he’s doing very weil for a green-rookie.
Looks a lot better than Brockers did in his rookie year.

Offense

1 Its all about the OLine.
Everything else, including QB,
looks ready to roll, to me.
Maybe Greg Robinson will help someday.
Maybe they draft another Olineman
high next year.

If the OLine plays well, this is a team
that can definitely lose Close,
high-scoring games.

w
v

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by wv.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by wv.