zn wrote:

And the gun debate to me boils down to the difference between people who see it the way you just said you see it, and the rest of us.

I don’t see it as being anything even remotely the way you describe. Not even a tiny bit. I take your description of the discussion as this completely alien viewpoint.

It has nothing to do with “freedom.”

And all over the world, there are societies with different forms of gun control that are ALSO completely democratic–frankly, in a lot of cases, more than we are.

And that is why I no longer allow students to write argument papers about guns (or abortion). The sides are not engaging in the same debate.

zn wrote:

Zooey wrote:

I still don’t understand why he wears a glove. It seemed like he was saying that kickers are like wide receivers. Which made me uncomfortable.

That was the punter, Pat McAfee. And he has a point—every play a punter is on includes him catching the ball.

Big deal.

I still hate Vinateri. So I’m not sure what your point is.

Mackeyser wrote:

bnw wrote:

Mackeyser wrote:

And I have no idea what the crack meant about “with the way that culture is heading.” As in, I literally have no idea what that means.

It means Sharia Law being practiced with the consent of the government and beheading in the streets.

Did you just say Sharia Law? In the USA?

That’s literally the dumbest thing I’ve heard all week and my teens haven’t been terribly creative trying to get out of work around the house.

Sharia law is unconstitutional. Period. End of discussion. It’s IMPOSSIBLE. Any law based on the Quran or the Hadith would be unconstitutional. Done.

Moreover, we have had very heavily Muslim districts, be they Somali or other in various parts of the country for many, many decades and literally NONE of this has even been mentioned.

He was talking about Sharia Law in the UK, not the USA. Because of the absence of a version of the 2nd amendment. That doesn’t elevate the level of wisdom any, but it is a bit of clarification.

wv wrote:

I thot i was gonna like that, but after a while
it left me with a yucky feeling.

I think i would rather hear them read tweets
about gardening.

w
v

Same.

Kinda felt like they lacked a sense of humor about it, especially Vinatierryie.

I still don’t understand why he wears a glove. It seemed like he was saying that kickers are like wide receivers. Which made me uncomfortable.

When I lived in England, people who wanted to go shoot guns recreationally could. But the guns stayed locked up in the shooting club. When someone went to shoot, he checked his gun out. When he was finished, he checked it back in.

I don’t know if they still do that.

bnw wrote:

Mackeyser wrote:

bnw wrote:

Yet he is a registered DEMOCRAT. Oops.

I really appreciate everyone who posts here and all the contributions.

That said, don’t fucking do that. Just fucking don’t. Don’t play puerile politics days after the mass murder of 50 people.

There is no political party affiliation that makes any difference here.

The man had serious mental illness. The man may or may not have engaged in terrorism in addition to the hate crime it clearly was.

You know what doesn’t matter? What corporate fucking club he belonged to.

So can we please NOT?

If for no other reason than out of respect for the dead.

Respect for the dead demands we can’t say he is a registered democrat? I disagree. The democrats are using this to try to deny our 2nd Amendment right. You know it too. It was an act of terrorism. You know that too.

Sure. But it is just as logical to point out that he worked as a security guard.

But you don’t do that because it doesn’t serve your political itch.

Mackeyser is right. You are politicizing mass murder to serve your own interest.

PA Ram wrote:

I get all of the arguments to to just vote Jill Stein or not vote or whatever–and in fact, I even agree with that sentiment on some level. But if bernie can get some of the progressive stuff he has been pushing into the Democratic platform. If Hillary chooses an Elizabeth Warren, there can be that subtle opening within the Democratic party.

Is Hillary still a neocon? Of course. But do I see her as reckless as Trump?

No. I don’t. Yes–she screwed up Libya. I get it.

My fear of Trump is how bad he can be?

If Gore had beaten Bush would we have invaded Iraq and set all this stuff of nightmares loose? I don’t think so. 8 years of Bush really was a disaster.

Well–Hillary is more war hawkish than Obama. It concerns me for sure.

But what about Trump? I can see us stumbling into wars and conflicts we didn’t think were possible–and not because of some neocon vision–but because he’s inept at all of that. He understands none of it.

Will he rip up the Iran deal and send nukes their way?

Who knows?

He strikes me as having no temperament for the job and his outright racism is a big warning light to me.

Am I being ruled by the same ol’ fear that always compels me to vote the “lesser” of two evils? Yes. And is she even the lesser of two evils? I can’t say I even know that for sure.

But I do live in one of those big swing states. And Pennsylvania is key to Trump’s strategy of winning the electoral votes. It’s a big key. I have to vote Clinton in my mind. Trump will give the right wing whoever they want on the court as long as it doesn’t hurt his own interests. He’ll give them most anything that doesn’t conflict with his interests.

I get the “Bernie or Bust” movement. I respect it and I think everyone must vote their conscience. But I have to follow my own conscience on this one. And that means a vote for Clinton. Or should I say a vote against Trump? Someday I suspect I will also hit that “Bernie or Bust” movement and I thought this was the year–to be honest. I really did.

But I’m not there yet.

It is a truly awful situation.

And…not to make your decision more complicated, or painful…but here is an interesting bit on Hillary

Hillary Clinton’s war crimes are unforgivable. No real progressive could ever support her.

I do not blame anyone for whatever choice he or she makes this November.

I am leaning towards Jill Stein, and my reasoning is basically that we are running out of time on the environment. There is a time to fold your hand, and wait for another opportunity. But I just don’t see any time for that anymore. It feels like the 4th quarter to me, behind by two scores, and realistically only one more possession after this one. We have to score on this drive. It’s 4th down. To me, a vote for Hillary is a punt. At best.

The time has come, imo. We need to terminate fossil fuels right now. And neither Trump nor Clinton are interested in the least.

What we have here, as far as I can tell, are two candidates who are strikingly similar to George Bush both in international policy, and domestic policy. Clinton is a smarter version of Bush, and Trump is a dumber version of Bush.

I honestly wonder if a dumber Bush isn’t preferable to a smarter Bush. Because at least with Trump, we know that the entire congress is going to be en garde against him from Day One. And Trump also completely lacks the network that Clinton owns, both domestically and internationally. Trump’s great weakness is that he is an outsider. Nobody is going to cooperate with him, and both parties – and probably even his own cabinet – will be holding counter-Trump strategy sessions. Trump is likely to be the most useless president ever. He is like that moron guy from Ohio, or wherever it was, that Joe Sixpack guy who had his 15 minutes of fame. He will have a little bit of use to some factions momentarily, but nobody will take him seriously. Nobody inside the beltway is going to respect Donald Trump. They are going to see him as this accidental blowhard freak of reality TV. If he is elected, the Republicans are going to instantly huddle up and figure out how to use him. They already ARE doing that. The guy is a bigger empty shirt than Ronald Reagan was, or George Bush. He has NO idea what’s actually going on. The person you will have to worry about is Rasputin. The Karl Rove, the Dick Cheney. Right now, we have no idea who that is going to be. But Trump will be the most ineffectual president since Warren Harding. Doesn’t mean he won’t do damage; he WILL. But so will Clinton, and it’s possible her damage will be unchecked.

bnw wrote:

. He gets things done. Unlike the Establishment candidates who are always bought long before they ever reach the presidency, Trump is not.

You keep saying that. As do a lot of Trump supporters.

But the fact that Trump isn’t bought by some other interests does not mean that he isn’t devoted to interests. You act like he is altruistic because he isn’t “bought.”

He has his OWN interests.

And those are the interests of a narcissistic billionaire developer.

Doesn’t make any difference that they are his OWN interests rather than somebody else’s.

They still aren’t MY interests.

Or yours either, for that matter.

This is wild.

Hillary Clinton has the highest Unfavorable Ratings of any candidate in history.

With the exception of Donald Trump.

So…here we are. The two most widely disliked candidates, ever, in the same year. And we are supposed to choose between them.

Jesus god have mercy.

No matter who wins, we all lose.

zn wrote:

Zooey wrote:

But in trying to make this point, what I often experience is the person I am talking to tries to tell me I am incorrect about what I think.

Man, I get that sometimes too.

According to mainstream thinking the dem party is “the left.”

But to me, as someone genuinely on the actual left, that’s like saying that baseball IS football.

Then I get told what being left means. Which, of course, as a leftist, I know ISNT what it means.

It;s like people who are born with only green and red color cones in their eyes and you have all three, and they keep telling you what blue looks like.

And let me guess…Clinton is in the upper right quadrant, and I am in the lower left quadrant, but righties are gonna tell me that we are the same. As do Clinton supporters, btw, and Clinton herself. “We need to unify….”

Yeah…we’re not the same.

I think so, too. I think if the Rams win zero games, they will be lucky. There is no talent on that team whatsoever. My grandma is better than Aaron Donald Duck. Believe me, I am

Happy4Stl.

I’m changing my handle.

I saw something yesterday – I took as a trial balloon – that Warren is close to being named.

I’d hate to lose her out of the senate.

I thought the Jets resigned Fitzpatrick a few days ago.

I don’t have much of a prediction on California, except I think Sanders wins here. I said that back in Feb, I think, on the basis that this is a reliably blue state. And in the past couple of months, California has increased registration by 10% – 1.5 million new voters. That ain’t for Hillary.

I find the appointment of Cornel West interesting, and haven’t read any reaction to it. I guess he isn’t well known enough, yet. He once called Obama a Rockefeller Republican in blackface.