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ZooeyModeratorWhat? No Bill Cowher? Jimmy Johnson?
I just saw an article over at CBS saying Pete Carroll. Seriously. A guy with 2-3 years left on his contract with Seattle.
Good lord.
ZooeyModeratorNothing like a good Old Testament allusion.
Well you know. For everything there is a season.
.
What the Rams need is a coach who can go to the Valley of Dry Bones.
ZooeyModeratorSomebody somewhere mentioned that Fisher might be like Moses…leading the team out of the wilderness, right to the edge of the Promised Land, only to die, and have someone else lead them in.
I did the Fisher equals Moses thing.
Nice one.
Nothing like a good Old Testament allusion.
ZooeyModeratorWell. The people with the torches and pitchforks got what they wanted.
I’m not sure it’s the best thing.
I’ve been wondering like everybody else what the story is.
And I argued just recently that the OL has had plenty of time to learn its assignments, and so on, that the move should be behind them.
But I do wonder if we are just seeing a lack of focus.
Moving to LA from St. Louis has to be a mental distraction, and up until now, I was just thinking in terms of finding a place to live, and all that stuff. And that stuff is over.
But it’s a totally different culture. And a zillion distractions and bright shiny things around. New roads to learn. New restaurants and clubs. The ocean.
I dunno. Maybe it just mentally took them out of their mindset enough.
In any event, the next coach will inherit a team with better talent than the one Fisher got. Somebody somewhere mentioned that Fisher might be like Moses…leading the team out of the wilderness, right to the edge of the Promised Land, only to die, and have someone else lead them in. Maybe. Maybe the new coach will get lost, and end up miles away.
I don’t care about Fisher per se. But I really do wonder. I just don’t know that this was really his fault, or anybody’s fault, really.
I do know that it was public relations that got him sacked.
December 13, 2016 at 10:06 am in reply to: PFF grades, Falcons game (2nd week in a row GR grades well) #60921ZooeyModeratorSo the top 5 offensive players for the Rams were the OL.
Go figure.
ZooeyModeratorA third thing is that they have to stop dribbling footballs off their facemasks. You aren’t supposed to dribble the ball at all in football. That’s hockey.
So they need to work on fundamentals.
December 12, 2016 at 10:21 pm in reply to: Rams press conference at 3pm LA time: Now With Video Link #60867ZooeyModeratorI dont think it had anything to do with Goff. I think it was just the totality of the circumstances. The general, total, collapse.
A critical mass of ineptitude, bonehead plays, and outside pressure.
Now watch fassel win three in a row. Then what?
w
vIt was the totality of circumstances. I agree.
What had not occurred to me – and I’m surprised nobody pointed this out to me since I was pretty much on my own in saying Fisher probably wouldn’t be fired – is that if the Chargers opt to move to LA, Kroenke starts selling PSLs in January. And he wants that PSL money to finance construction of the stadium rather than having to borrow or liquidate.
And if Spanos says, yes, then two teams start selling PSLs at the same time, one of which performed very badly, right in front of Los Angeles, with a highly unpopular coach and a streak of crappiness that may be harder to sell.
This unraveling of the team comes at a bad time for Kroenke.
So…I think that’s what it comes down to.
As I said elsewhere, I bet if the Rams beat Atlanta, Fisher wouldn’t have been fired – at least right now – but bouncing a kickoff off of the facemask and dropping behind by 7 ten seconds into the game, and giving up more touchdowns to Atlanta in LA than the Rams have scored in LA themselves the entire season?
No bueno.
ZooeyModeratorI wonder what would have happened if the Rams had played a decent game on Sunday instead of pulling a Keystone Kops routine.
Going down 42 – 0 at home in front of a crowd already chanting for Fisher’s head certainly finished him off. I mean…that was a debacle.
You know, Fisher was hired in part due to his experience in moving a team.
That didn’t pay off so well, did it?
ZooeyModeratorI’d say get Bill Belichik.
The Rams destroyed one of the satanic coaches. Get the other one in here, and ruin his career, too.
December 12, 2016 at 2:21 pm in reply to: Gurley: "It looked like a middle-school offense out there," #60772ZooeyModeratorMy main interest in the article was that Gurley implied there are players that aren’t trying. That is what concerns me.
He might know, and he might not.
Was Britt “trying” to catch that ball?
You know, we are going to know real soon. Because if mayhem sets in, it will be obvious. There will be finger-pointing, and mouthing off, and it won’t be subtle. There won’t be people sitting around arguing about what it means.
A melted down team is a melted down team.
I was hoping that the Rams would respond angrily and come out and give the Falcons the game of their season.
Now, I just hope the Rams don’t end up looking like a total mockery the rest of the way.
Because that may force Kroenke to do something that may not be in the Rams best interest.
ZooeyModeratorA night well spent.
Today is the 15th anniversary of my daughter’s death. A lot of people on this board were posting together when that happened. 15 years ago. Wow.
I always take the day off work, and my family and I go and get our Christmas tree today.
It’s good to do things to honor the memory.
Just keep going, buddy.
December 12, 2016 at 10:09 am in reply to: Gurley: "It looked like a middle-school offense out there," #60750ZooeyModeratorHe deliberately went out of his way to state that he WASN’T talking about the scheme. I know that given their view of things, some posters will want him to have said that. But he directly made it clear he WASN;T saying that.
Why do I care? Because I think better of him than that. Heck this is not the worst recent Rams season we have seen, and can you imagine Steven Jackson publicly blaming the coaches for a loss in 2011 etc? He had more class and sense than that. I like to think the same of Gurley.
…
I tend to agree with you.
But it was an unfortunate thing to say. Cuz I don’t think it will turn the temperature down on the hot seat for his Coach.
December 12, 2016 at 10:04 am in reply to: Gurley: "It looked like a middle-school offense out there," #60748ZooeyModeratorFirst of all, Gurley didn’t say, “High school offense.”
He said, “Middle school offense.”
Believe me, as a guy whose high school just put a 57 -16 beatdown on Bakersfield Saturday night in the state semi-final game, and is on its way to the state championship for the second consecutive year (defending champs), I know what a high school offense looks like.
And the Rams are NOT at that level.
ZooeyModeratorI agree that the Rams’ next 2 or 3 seasons are primarily on Goff’s shoulders.
I am also concerned about Quinn. I am delighted that draft is deep there, but not delighted that the Rams don’t have a 1st round pick.
ZooeyModeratori just want to see goff play well. if he can lead the rams to at least three offensive touchdowns, i’ll be happy.
Yeah, I think that’s what everyone is watching for the rest of the way.
And if he does, all the pessimists will be right back at the start of next season regardless of who the coach is. zn is right about the future of the Rams being determined more by Jared Goff than by whoever is Head Coach.
ZooeyModeratorThe only way the Rams win this game is by their defense suddenly remembering how to get turnovers and sacks, and I don’t know why they would start doing that in game 13.
December 9, 2016 at 2:53 pm in reply to: Rams Junior High: Inside a Dysfunctional Front Office #60623ZooeyModeratorZooey, why don’t you post your Jeff Gordon article here?
I don’t think I’m going to last very long over there. Seems to me I am just pissing people off, though it’s hard to tell since they are all really pissed off anyway.
Gordon: Snead’s role is filling Fisher’s needs
BY JEFF GORDON Feb 15, 2012Jeff Fisher is an established NFL head coach. As such, he will ultimately decide which players fit into his 53-man roster.
Fisher selects the starting lineups, with guidance from his assistants. The coaching staff mulls game match-ups. The staff devises the weekly game plans and makes the in-game adjustments. The staff calls the plays on both sides of the ball.
So Fisher and his coaches will make the final personnel calls. Period.
That is how it works when a franchise has the right guy at head coach.
General manager Les Snead’s job is to identify and acquire the sort of players Fisher needs. Through all means possible, Snead and his staff must add the personnel Fisher requires to transform a 2-14 team into a playoff threat.
Chief operating officer Kevin Demoff’s challenge is to make the numbers work. He must crunch all sorts of data and establish monetary values for current and prospective players. In a salary cap world, his role is critical. He makes the puzzle pieces fit.
But, as with Snead, his job is to make sure Fisher has the sort of players he wants.
Demoff, Snead and Fisher presented themselves to the media as a united team Tuesday afternoon. They insisted that decisions would be made collectively, with the shared sense of purpose to improve the Rams.
In the real world, though, personnel disagreements are inevitable. Player evaluation is an inexact science.
The head coach is primarily accountable for winning and losing. He must take his guys into battle, for better or worse.
So the roster must be his call. With that power comes the responsibility to trust the expertise of those around him so he can make the right decisions.
Stan Kroenke and Demoff landed Fisher as head coach by convincing him he could build his sort of football operation here in St. Louis. Once he signed on, the franchise continued its GM search and settled on Snead — a well-respected personnel expert who served various coaches and executives during his professional climb.
He arrives with the framework already in place. His role is to work within the established dynamics to give Fisher and his staff optimal options as they reshape the team.
Fisher needs wide receivers? Snead and Co. must find candidates who fit the offensive scheme, the team personality and the budget.
Fisher needs offensive tackles? The personnel guys and number guys work through all the options and discuss all possible scenarios with the coach before proceeding.
A host of factors decide whether the Rams get a particular player through the draft, free agency, a trade or general street scouring.
Everybody must work together through that process. Everybody must remain on the same page. All voices must be heard, but in the end cacophony must yield to harmony.
If it doesn’t, it’s up to Fisher to yell “Quiet!”
We know what happens when dysfunction sets in. The “Greatest Show on Turf” began its slide when general manager Charley Armey lost clout.
Jay Zygmunt, the numbers guy, fancied himself a football guy and grabbed power. Mike Martz, the head coach, came to believe he was a personnel wizard who didn’t need guidance from scouts.
As the team eroded, internal bickering escalated into brazen back-stabbing. Because the organization lacked steady leadership at the top — the owner was disengaged, the team president worked out of his Los Angeles office — chaos ensued.
Try as they might, various executives, scouts, head coaches and assistant coaches failed to restore order during subsequent seasons.
As the losses mounted last year, your cyber-correspondent suggested hiring a strong president for football operations to restore order from the top down. Kroenke went a different direction, hiring a strong coach to restore order from the sideline up.
And so here we are. The key operatives are in place. The chain of command is established.
Let the Rams overhaul begin.
December 9, 2016 at 11:30 am in reply to: Rams Junior High: Inside a Dysfunctional Front Office #60610ZooeyModeratorIn 2012, Fisher told Mike Silver that he chose Rams for “final say” on personnel. So Snead deflection is interesting
Yeah, that Snead deflection is REALLY interesting, Rich.
Let’s look at it again:
“I look at this as being my responsibility, the win-loss record. We need to do a better job from a personnel standpoint.
Somehow. Some way. This got translated into: “I look at this as being my resopnsibility, the win-loss record. Les Snead is to blame for not doing my job better.”
And you all just ran with that like it made perfect sense. And it makes such perfect sense to you that now that you have finally learned that Jeff Fisher has the final say on personnel, you just can’t figure out how he could say that about Les Snead.
It is a mystery. I can’t wait to hear your explanation once you’ve figured out what Fisher was doing.
Here’s a thought: maybe Jeff Fisher didn’t think anybody would point out that he is in charge of personnel. Or maybe…maybe!…Jeff Fisher doesn’t REMEMBER that he is in charge of personnel. There has to be an explanation for why he would blatantly blame Snead by saying “We.”
ZooeyModeratorAh, fuck this.
Fuck this whole thing.
There is so much more smoke here than fire. I don’t know. Maybe there IS something, but so far I haven’t seen any actual EVIDENCE of it. Only a lot of disgruntled people throwing accusations around.
I need a break.
ZooeyModeratorthinking about it yeah. i think it’s a stretch to take it as him slamming snead.
i’m really just wondering why he would say he had no idea snead signed an extension too, and i haven’t heard or read a convincing argument as to why he would say that when he must have known that he did sign an extension.
The speculation I posted elsewhere is this:
Jeff Fisher was trying to emphasize that he is focused on football, and on his job, and not distracted by all the commotion outside the gate, or extensions, or whatever. He is focused on football. And so he told a little stretcher there to help emphasize the point.
I mean, there is no way he didn’t know that.
But I don’t think it had anything to do with Snead in particular, just a guy trying to say, “Hey, I’m doing my job here, m’kay? This other stuff isn’t where my head is.” So he told a stupid fib. But I don’t personally think it was anything more than that.
ZooeyModeratorNYPOST.COM
“We need to do a better job from a personnel standpoint. We’ve had some unfortunate things take place with some high picks in Stedman Bailey and Tre Mason and those kinds of things you don’t anticipate. But we’re moving forward.”
Okay, here is the quote I have from somewhere else:
“I’m so busy here, I was honestly unaware he was extended. I’m being honest with you, we’re just working here,” Fisher said. “I look at this as being my responsibility, the win-loss record. We need to do a better job from a personnel standpoint. We’ve had some unfortunate things take place with some high picks in Stedman Bailey and Tre Mason and those kinds of things you don’t anticipate.
The sentences preceding the “We need to do a better job from a personnel standpoint” are pretty important, and you get a different picture of what Fisher is saying with those sentences included.
ZooeyModeratorDo we have a video of the Fisher comment about personnel that launched a thousand ships?
I read it, and I don’t see him throwing Snead under the bus, but is there video of that I missed?
Because I’m listening to Breer up there, and it sounds like he is implying that Fisher is putting Bailey and Mason down as personnel office failures which isn’t the read I read it, and which seems absurd.
December 8, 2016 at 8:29 pm in reply to: Rams Junior High: Inside a Dysfunctional Front Office #60574ZooeyModeratorthe one thing. the only thing i can think of is fisher knows changes are coming. that’s just unavoidable. so he’s trying to tow a fine line between acknowledging he’s the one with final say and preparing to make changes in order to save his job.
and i wouldn’t put it past fisher to knock snead off a sinking ship to save himself. wouldn’t put it past any of them really.
it’s a game of thrones.
Maybe.
I will allow that that is possible i.e. Fisher would throw Snead under the bus.
But I don’t believe he would attempt to do that through the media, and I don’t think he meant Snead when he said we have to get better at personnel.
The offense was terrible this year, and if that is a coaching problem, it seems to me that you look at the offense’s coaches first. Fisher’s job is to say, “I want an offense that is built to this particular strength, and these are the kinds of players I want.” It is the job of scouting to find those types of players, and the job of the offensive coaches to train the players, and to exercise the game strategy and tactics.
That’s why I don’t think Fisher is primarily to blame.
December 8, 2016 at 1:58 pm in reply to: Jeff Fisher was 'unaware' Rams GM Les Snead also got an extension #60559ZooeyModeratorHe’s throwing Snead under the bus. And there is no way that he didn’t know Snead was extended. I don’t believe that for a second.
I don’t think he is. Fisher isn’t a 7th grader who is worried about getting in trouble. Throwing Snead under the bus would be the work of a frightened child. They may have collided in the past, but Fisher is a stable person who understands the business side of things. Blaming Snead accomplishes exactly nothing, and would be unprofessional. I just don’t think that is a Fisher style of move, myself.
I do agree that he lied about not knowing of Snead’s extension. But – putting on my mind-reading hat – I am going to guess that lie was made in an effort to emphasize that he is focused on football, and not on job security. Just an effort to say, “My head is in the coaching gig, not in office politics.” I doubt it was a jab at Snead.
ZooeyModeratorKroenke is a businessman who cares about his empire. What is important to him is building his brands. He is like a CEO of a corporation. A product may have a passionate following, but if the numbers aren’t there on sales, it will get axed. I get the feeling that fabulously rich and powerful people don’t really respect their consumers all that much.
Kroenke flat out told Arsenal supporters (his premier league soccer club in England) that if they were all about winning championships, they should change allegiance to Manchester United or Chelsea. Which they won’t. And he knows they won’t. Arsenal’s fan base is one of the most reliably loyal in the league, and that was one of the reasons Kroenke was attracted to it. Now, Arsenal is a pretty successful club. Supporters of other teams would rip off their arms to follow a team that has their consistent level of success, but while Arsenal has won a bunch of stuff (English football has a lot of cups and titles – it isn’t like our sports leagues that have a single championship each season), they don’t spend on salaries the way Man U and Chelsea do. And…fwiw…Arsenal has had the same coach for something like 25 years.
Kroenke keeps his overhead down. If you like Steinbrenner, or Cuban, or DeBartolo, Kroenke is not your guy. Go follow another team. Kroenke isn’t a fan; he is a businessman.
But the NFL is a bit different because the salary cap limits the overhead. Winning is not at odds with overhead like it is in baseball and the English Premier League. In fact, winning will improve the Rams brand, it will improve the value of the franchise.
And zn is right. Fans have decided that Fisher is a loser, and that the Rams need a new coach in order to win. But there is no indication that Kroenke has reached the same conclusion. In fact, he just signed Fisher to a new deal.
And my central argument is that Kroenke – being a consistent creature of business – did not commit money to an expense (Fisher’s salary) with an eye to making a decision about whether or not to retain him later. He made his decision to retain him, and then committed the money. That’s the way smart businessmen conduct business. This notion that he could have promised him money and then wanted to see how the Rams would do in a stretch of games in November…makes no sense. Everything we know about Kroenke is inconsistent with that idea.
Now, Kroenke HAS fired coaches, and fired coaches IN SEASON before. He has done that. Well, his son has. FWIW. His son fired Brian Shaw (in March – a month before the end of the NBA season), but the situation had completely melted down, and the entire team was in disarray.
So…imo…unless we start seeing players quit on Fisher, Fisher is here next year.
December 8, 2016 at 10:20 am in reply to: Rams Junior High: Inside a Dysfunctional Front Office #60550ZooeyModeratorYea…I tend to agree with that.
It seemed to me Fisher was also throwing himself and the scouts on the sword along with Snead.
When Fisher took over in STL one of things I noticed was he cut back the freedom the local reporters had around the team. That offended the writers in the area IMO. I would suspect he has limited the reporters in Cali just like he did in STL so now we see things like “sources” when for the last 5 years I haven’t read too many sources out of Fishers camp.
I do think Fisher is feeling a little heat though.
Oh, he’s feeling the heat. And it will increase. A wounded head coach is always blood in the water for the media, and obviously a lot of fans are out of patience.
I just don’t believe that Kroenke is all that concerned about this kind of thing, though. Look at all the heat the Rams went through over the past 24 months, and the threats of fans to not attend games, and all the rest of it. Stan never varied his step. Stan is a grownup. He sees the media circus stuff as media circus stuff.
December 8, 2016 at 9:45 am in reply to: Rams Junior High: Inside a Dysfunctional Front Office #60548ZooeyModeratorThat’s a real article. Inside info, the whole 9 yards. (And you beat me to posting it by 2 minutes! Lol.)
So it’s a real article. As in.
Ruh-roh.
Yeah, I dunno.
It relies on one statement from Fisher at a press conference, and the fact that the Rams’ temporary headquarters in Thousand Oaks is called “Rams Junior High” which he asserts is due to “bickering and finger-pointing.”
Now, I don’t read press conferences very often, but this is the first time all year I have heard any allegation of bickering and finger-pointing. The first time. And while the offices may be called Rams Junior High, I wonder if the origins of that have something more to do with the temporary nature of the offices, the fact they are moving to something Bigger in the future, and the Rams losing record. Where is this bickering?
And Fisher’s comment: “We need to do a better job from a personnel standpoint” is true, first of all, but also could include coaches. Coaches are personnel.
Then he has “one Rams source.” Who is that? Bonsignore?
I will say the article has more of a tone of legitimacy than some of its predecessors this week, but I remain skeptical of this. I still think what we are mostly seeing here is the agitation of losing growing into mob frenzy. Make the Rams great again.
ZooeyModeratorI have not heard one compelling argument for keeping Jeff Fisher.
I understand why people are out of patience with Fisher.
I mean…obviously.
But find me one example from the career of Stan Kroenke where he made a decision…a business choice…and then second guessed himself, and reversed course.
Never.
He signed Jeff Fisher for next year.
December 7, 2016 at 7:58 pm in reply to: Sanders Nailed It On Identity Politics & Inequality & the MSM missed the point #60534ZooeyModeratorThe MSM won’t let it go because to do that would mean actually becoming the fourth estate of Murrow, Severeid, Reasoner, Cronkite, and lastly Moyers.
They frankly LOVE the model where they’ve totally sold out and simply get to plagiarize dying newspapers while they ESPN the news with “panels” talking about the news…
It makes them rich, and doesn’t require any work. And they get invited to the cool kids parties.
ZooeyModeratorI used to like Krugman.
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